The Fairer Text

S1: You are now listening to Meridian Arts.

S2: The story you're about to hear is true. It takes place in the wild world of rap , and contains mature content that may not be appropriate for all audiences , like N.W.A said.

S3: Parental discretion is advised.

S2: My name is Parker Edison. I'm an artist , and I'm fascinated by the impact of rap writers. Hip hop's 50th anniversary yielded a ton of articles and interviews on the subject. Being the black rap nerd that I am. I started to notice certain cities have something about their contribution that makes them unique. San Diego is one of those cities for a couple of reasons. I got with some close friends I've been discussing rap with. We created this series to break it all down. I'm gonna map the whole thing out. But here's the deal. This isn't the history of hip hop. This isn't a complete timeline. But it is what happened ? Some details will be left out when we talk about the civil rights movement. There's thousands of names involved , but we tell the tale with the key ones. Rosa. Martin. Malcolm. Keep that in mind while you're listening to this. This is about San Diego rap and the incredible way it got where it is today. Are you ready ? Well let's go. This is a San Diego story.

UU: We are lying. Put your hands in the air.

S3: We are like. Put your hands in the air. If you're feeling all right. For your. Love.

S4: Love. Next level experience here in Egypt for me has been almost indescribable. It's so beautiful. I cry literally every day. Just. Just tears of joy. Just. I'm just emotionally overwhelmed by all of this. This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever been a part of. And I'm grateful. Grateful.

S2: This season is heavy with contributions from a skilled set of writers. At the same time as the primary decision maker hold the responsibility of curating what we present , I hope to archive the birth and evolution of SD wrap , but it's important for me to do so authentically. For all intents and purposes , this is a historical document , but it's also a personal account. I'm a rap fan.

UU: I gotta talk , I gotta tell what I feel. I gotta talk about my life as I see it.

S2: In this episode , we're discussing the presence of women in San Diego rap. It's important to note that there's a limited number , but if we're equals , we can address this situation honestly and recognize the exceptional qualities of those we know. There is a glass ceiling and a level of oppression in rap , and that oppression exploits all who participate. I can't definitively say if the lower count of women is directly caused by the suppression. I can focus on telling this leg of the story through the work of women to better convey the impact of their contributions. In episode one , DJ Gil told us how his first rap demo with his Mid-City crew featured MC Stephanie Payne.

S3: I'm S.T. Payne and I'm not ashamed to say the man upstairs. He ain't playing no games. He can come anytime like a thief in the night. He can make you real happy with your life , with pride. But I myself , I don't worry about because I tell you , party people , what I'm all about , about.

S2: Women are integral to every aspect of rap. In our previous episode , we had the opportunity to hear from Mad Joker , who provided insights into the industry side of things. As his interview concluded , he happened to introduce us to Majesty , a pioneering woman from an early phase of rap in San Diego.

S5: She can tell you her own quick little story , but this one right here , oh my God , the greatest , hardest woman. And her story is crazy because she was not the first B-Boy. Stubborn one and two , ladies and gentlemen , Majesty. For two guns drawn , that is our group. Say something , baby , real quick.

S3: Like you said , I.

S6: Kicked off in the underground hip hop community in the early 90s as well. Um , I was one of the first girls out here rockin , uh , had a record called depths of the underground. Some of the OGs know me , and it was at the tip of my fingertips as well. Almost had to deal with Tommy Boy , and I really rocked it hard for the females. And I would just dip in and dip out and then , you know , life took me where it did. I got married , had children , featured on a couple of things here and there , but the depths of the underground was the only record that came to fruition.

S2: This theme will be revisited later in this episode. Not everyone stays in the game for a long time. Sometimes it's about the impact. Majesty namechecked Tommy boy. Yet again San Diego yielding label quality artist. That was the early 90s. There were other ladies hands penning lines around that time in episode two. DJ jam gave us the scoop on everything from here to LA , which included rapper MC Deb B , originally associated with Vicious Beat Posse. She continued her career when the group slowed down DJ Gil.

S7: He had four groups and I deejay for the female , uh , solo rapper in the posse for MC. Deb signed to MCA records once again. Now we're in a studio , Paramount Studios in LA. Recording. The album Girl That I deejay for was nice , like , she looked nice and everything. You know , she was dope , right ? Somehow. I don't know , between what ? Maybe we went out one night as a crew to a club or whatever , and she met Dre. So Dre started coming to the apartment where we would all stay , you know , just to come and chill and kick it with her. But when he would come over and they would chill , whatever. We go and do whatever we're doing. But it was cool. Dre was there , you know what I mean ? So that happened.

S2: MC Debi didn't sign with Doctor Dre or Interscope , but she did record a couple tracks around that time , like this one.

UU: Hits it like that. Pop , don't be fakin tough like I ain't the one to bite my tongue. You just walk back.

S2: You ever heard of that guy ? He did a couple tracks with Doctor Dre. His name is , uh. We'll come back to that. Let's fast forward. There's another guy on that track you might want to check out.

UU: So go in the house , y'all. Come on. The middle man and innocent bystanders getting up , down , up See breaking news from the program.

S2: What about him ? Recognize him ? That's an unreleased track called Break Them Off. Some features Tupac Shakur dubbed. See , before he was in West Side Connection. Money be of the legendary group Digital Underground and MC Debbie Deb was putting in work. In 1991 , she was part of sisters in the Name of Rap.

S8: Pump it up. Here's Miss Body and Soul herself. Your sisters in the name of rap MC dynamic D bar.

S3: Yo yo , what's up , what's up ? I'm glad to see everybody made it here on time. Chilling at the Ritz in New York. Make some noise , y'all. You know what time it is , guys ? Yo , yo , we got MC Lyte , Salt-N-Pepa. They all , you know Queen Latifah. Everybody's getting ready to rock it. I'm telling you , we got a lot more rappers out there. We get ready to do this.

S2: The sisters in the Name of Rap Concert was a historic event in the rap industry , showcasing talented rappers such as Queen Latifah , salt and Pepper , MC Lyte , Yo Yo Roxanne , Ashanti , and San Diego's emcee Deb. The concert was hosted by Dee Barnes of Fox TV's Pump It Up and emphasized themes of self-reliance and demanding respect. A copy of the concert is preserved and a collection at the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture. As I've said before , what happens in the macro happens in the micro. There were ladies making noise in the underground , too. Episode four introduced you to Oracle and the Masters of the universe crew , whose moody melodies dabbled near acid jazz in the mid 90s. Smack dab in the middle of their back to the future compilation , we hear a track titled existence featuring authentic , whose sonic nimbleness draws you in this. Definition.

S9: Definition.

S3: When God created Earth , that was the first person to produce is history from the start , and even settled on the news that Get your medical equipment and seafood watch generic. So when they throw at pitches seem to have no merit. No studies have shown up in this assembly alone , but still fully supported. Test me when I'm experiments. There I've been trying out these mental projects. Even immune systems are strong enough and correct.

S2: Fun fact in episode six , we had the opportunity to listen to rapper and producer Larry Love discussing his Critical Mindstate compilation. It's worth noting that Larry Love's sister is authentic , showcasing the interconnectedness within the industry and further highlighting the significant role women consistently play in San Diego's rap scene. Why is it challenging to readily list women who've made significant contributions in San Diego rap ? One factor may be that we tend to evaluate women's success using criteria designed for men , which may not completely reflect their achievements. Women often juggle multiple roles in their lives , such as being a daughter , student , professional , and parent simultaneously. Maybe we should view women in rap through a lens similar to how we perceive versatile athletes like Bo Jackson , Deion Sanders or Michael Jordan. Appreciating their ability to excel in various disciplines with equal proficiency , I think another significant factor lies slightly less in gender and more in the business aspects of the industry. I met with producer and studio engineer Chauncey Godson Chamberlain to get an insider's confirmation.

S10: It's already slow for men , so for women , it's really got to be a push. You know what I'm saying ? That's got to be a different campaign for a woman to be successful. I mean , back in the day , it was a whole different ball game for women in rap. You know , nowadays , you know what I'm saying ? For women to rap you , we all know they got a busted down to the final move. You know what I'm saying ? Whereas back then , you know , we had Laila who , you know , Carey was one deemed her best female rapper. You know what I'm saying ? Uh , of the West Coast at that time , she did all that through through her talent. Mhm. You understand what I'm saying ? Her style. Everybody back then had a style.

S2: Godson mentioned Layla Aziz. You'll hear more about her in a couple of weeks. For right now just focus on that idea of the push , the legwork necessary to get an album single off the ground. After recording and producing the album , this can include photos , marketing , artwork , audience analysis. Historically , cities with a track record of successful releases Detroit , New York , Philadelphia. These resources are already in place long before artists need to utilize them. Our rap scene lacks that infrastructure , and while we all suffer for it , it's possible women pay a higher price. After this quick break , we'll hear from two accomplished rappers and recipients of San Diego Music Awards. Stick around. Welcome back. We're delving into the world of women , rock and mix in San Diego. Our rap scene is diverse , with sections such as southeast , South Bay , each with its own unique sound. San Diego's vibrant indie rock scene naturally attracts rappers with a similar vibe. These rappers are heavy in coastal areas and beach clubs. I connected with a rapper who can shed light on this distinct intersection.

S11: Here I am , November 5th , head spinning round in this monumental moment , I can feel the change rolling in. Everything is different now. The storm cloud is lifting. How different the future looks with hope within the white House now.

S2:

S12: I'm a songwriter and aspiring ukulele player living in North Park , San Diego , probably best known music wise for my rap project MC flow , which was the name I performed under for many years. As I'm starting to get back into music again , I'm performing under my own name. I'm doing kind of much different work , but still rap every once in a while when it's feels right.

S2:

S12: It was early 2000. Um , I was living with a friends who were all musicians. I wanted to be involved in what they were doing. I wanted to participate , and I had been doing spoken word rapping and turning into like. The lyrical side of songwriting was the easiest first , like bridge into music that I could take and to also express myself and things that I thought were important. I started doing this also at such an interesting time in like the birth of social media , like so when I was first starting , it was like Myspace time and it was , you know , you wanted to put a song on your profile. It was the beginning of this idea and this new way that anybody , you know could have access to sharing music with the world. I never really saw it so much as like an income source. It was a dream income source. But I definitely hit a point where I was like , yeah , I'm ready for people to hear me. I would love to have more distribution. And I think the fact that it just kind of happened to coalesce with this time where social media was starting to take off , it just kind of happened on its own. It was very homegrown at the beginning and always pretty much.

S2:

S12: It didn't feel necessarily like there was a hub or a built in web of connection. I was an artist that kind of had one foot in the rap scene and one foot in more of like the coffee shop and singer songwriter type scene. Some of my shows for sure , were straight up shows where I would go and just do one song and like a hip hop showcase. Ways that I got involved was actually I'm dating myself again , aside from Myspace. Now I'm going to go Craigslist. Was that I ? Yeah , I responded to a Craigslist ad for like a community hip hop group that was actually called the Community at the time. And like , we would meet in a guy's garage in OB and we would play our tracks and we would , you know , try to support each other. And some of the first shows that I did were showcases of artists from that group. I played indie rock shows as much as I played rap shows. So , um , so yeah , so I don't know that I'm the best to speak to exactly what the scene was like , but I will say that it always felt , for the most part , supportive to me. I feel like everything has its own scene and it's constantly changing. But we did North County rap shows and they had their own vibe. We did do some beach shows. I don't know that I did too much , too many shows in OB , but I did a few like PB type beach shows. Um , I feel like the thing with me was always about winning over the crowd , like getting in there. And oftentimes people would be surprised , like I would come up on stage and if they weren't familiar with me , and then suddenly I would start performing. There was like a moment of shock.

S2: The listeners can't see you , so I'm gonna I'm gonna fill them in on something. Mhm. You're white. Right.

S12: Right. Ding ding ding. Very.

S13: Very.

S2: Do you think you're being white or a woman. Uh , had an effect on how you were received in rap. Definitely.

S12: Definitely. There were positives and negatives to both. Anytime an artist comes into a space and they're different from the norm , they're going to stand out. People would say , oh my God , she looks like a soccer mom. It's like a rapping soccer mom. You know , it was attention catching for some people , but that only goes so far. Right ? And whether you're going to be valued or respected really comes down to your work and what you do and your music. As a woman , definitely. There were times that early on , I remember at one rap show in particular early on , that a guy came up to me and asked me who wrote my raps ? And I thought that was wild , that somebody would say that , and that gave me more fuel for what I was doing and what I wanted to do. Women in any musical genre , like there's so many standards and expectations of what female artists should look like and present , like in a lot of ways that I think still exist. So when I did , um , a song about proposition eight called Created Equal , like , I got a lot of hate online for being an out queer artist. Um , and that was hard. That was that was the like the first time that I really felt like , wow. You know , when you put your work out there , you're opening yourself up , um , to all different people's opinions. And sometimes it's positive and sometimes it's painful. I'm not going to be for everybody , and that's fine.

S2: And you , you touched on the trap created equal and you're on your own created equal , which is , uh , I believe in 2008 , which is maybe four years before Macklemore follows the same , uh , kind of touches on the same topic in 2012.

S12: You know , looking back at that song now , I'm like , it's really more of like a spoken word piece than it is a rap song. I mean , it doesn't have a hook. It's like four minutes long or something ridiculous. Um , it's really more of a spoken word piece. It was really just me , like working through all my thoughts and feelings about it. Um , and I got to perform it at San Diego Pride and had my friends on the main stage at pride , holding all the letters that said created equal. And like it was , it was definitely a cool moment , something that that I was , I was very proud of. And I think for me , you know , you ask also like , how did I get into rapping ? I think also like I was a young person who was a feminist and who was queer and had like things that I wanted to express and say. And for me , rap was a way to tap into some of that and express some of those things. Definitely. For sure. We have queer MCs , um , and a few female queer emcees , you know , like I wasn't the only one , so that's amazing. Uh , um.

S2:

S12: I met a lot of female artists over the years in San Diego. And of course , you know , I'm a huge fan and friend of Nikki Mickey Vail , who , you know , was performing and playing out shows like at the same time as me. And now , you know , she's taken her career into this whole , like , theatrical next stage and moved on to Sulcus Theater and the Old Globe and all these other amazing things that that she does. So. So yeah , I feel like there always have been female emcees here who have been doing really great things. Back when in North Park , there was a shop called The Rubber Rose , which was like a really cool woman owned sex shop. And Leah , the owner there , she did like a Women in Hip Hop festival one year and brought in some like incredible DJs and performers and had workshops. And I would say for me that was like the apex , but I haven't. I haven't seen so much of that. But I will be the first to admit that I haven't been out there as much since Covid.

S2:

S12: I wrote a song about that , and , um , then was able to partner with San Diego troubadour Jason Mraz , um , on that song , and he brought me to read rocks to perform that song live. And we had Charlotte's family come. And that , for me , was just a super proud moment.

S11: Now everybody's looking at Charlotte's daddy growing each day steady out there on your bike , riding with Maxwell and Chace already out there taking hikes with the smile on your face. Beaming on the school bus pulling away. Oh , Charlotte , the word is getting around about the power of the plant and the answers you found. Oh , Charlotte , we're gonna make you proud. We're gonna chant your name. Break the barriers down.

S2: There's a bold defiance in the rap music women make. Similar to the spirit of gangster music. They navigate through challenges embodying a rebellious spirit. Plus , a lot of female rappers draw from their personal experiences and realities. That's a tangent Missy flows mentioned in Nikki Vale's especially timely considering she's the next interview we have cued up for you. Listening close , Mickey tells interviewer Chris Reyes how life experiences can play into shaping the careers of female rappers.

S4: My name is Mickey Mickey Vale and I am in the city of San Diego , Kumeyaay land. I've made some cool music and I've written some cool plays , and I've toured. I've traveled extensively , traveled the world , and yeah , all pretty cool accomplishments. Things that I'm happy about and proud of.

S14:

S4: And so some of the people couldn't. Some of our friends had never written a song and didn't know how , and so I wrote a lot of the lyrics for the song and for them and like , train them on how to say the lyrics. And we were really just having fun in San Diego State studio , and I played it for my friends at um at 9 a.m. and they were like , whoa , you got serious bars ? Like serious , serious bars. And it wasn't something that I was , you know , I wasn't trying to bar out their reaction to. It was like , oh , okay. And then they wanted me to rap on their songs. It's like , cool , okay , now I'm rapping on on their songs. And , um , so I would say that was my start in San Diego and San Diego hip hop.

S14:

S4: Ladybug from planets. I just loved their their , like , chill , cool styles that they had.

S14: Anybody , um , locally ? Nah.

S4: Just kidding. Um , no. Um , I'd have to say the the guys in the 9 a.m. , especially Casey , Dredd and John. There was a bunch of them read. I was really inspired by , um , their bars because they were they were heavy bars , you know , they were like , um , whoever , you know , really thought out intricate rhyme schemes and stuff. And I really liked that. And smart like , intelligent bars.

S14: Was there like very obvious things that were affecting you ? Were there things that were very obvious and in-your-face , like , these are happening because I'm a woman.

S4: The main thing I can think of at the moment is that was very obvious , because I was the woman was just people Wanting to. To me , it was like pretending. Pretending you want to work with me so that you can get close to me. And I fell for it a few times. Until one time , this guy who was such a dope producer , it was to me at the time , I was like , what a missed opportunity. We could have made some real cool music together. But he weaseled his way into my home by saying , I'm going to bring some beats. And I'm like , cool , come over , let's work. And then he came empty handed. No beats , no intention of , no beats , just smiling in my face. And I was like , man , I can't.

S2: This is definitely happening and it's not a secret. It's even come up in other interviews. Check this out. Hey , this is.

S15: Deejay artistic Art Mitchell , San Diego best DJs , no circuit DJs. And I'm so happy to be here with you on this beautiful day.

S14: I was talking to Mickey Vale about this.

S8:

S15: Say in like a 2025 year period , I can't name ten female MCs off the top of my head. So I would think that there's a lot of different factors. One is , can I be a female in this culture and be respected as a artist ? Or somebody's going to try to catch feelings ? So I think that dynamic of it probably has something to do with back then and even now , it was really a male dominated kind of art.

S14:

S4: Maybe as far as I don't know if longevity is the right word , but staying the course , staying the hip hop course , maybe many go on to do other things , you know ? Life happens , adulting happens. Growing up happens. And focuses can be often taken away from things that we grew up doing. Or , you know , sometimes you can't continue to spread yourself so thin to do it all , and some things fall to the wayside. So I think men tend to have , from what I observe , a very a higher level of tunnel vision for that thing. Like they can push everything else out and that could be , you know , got kids , can't really worry about them right now. Mom's got them. I got to do this thing. And I think in my opinion , that's why men tend to excel in certain things and have these , you know , high level professional careers in sports or , or whatever it is because they are able to just focus on that thing. Only male people have more of a propensity for that than women. And so women , they have kids. I'm going to focus on my family. I can't really focus on this thing anymore. And I feel like men tend to be the opposite.

S14: Women in the scene , if you had to go , these people are influential for me. They make my list.

S4: Women that I would that would be on my list had to , you know , she had projects out. She was performing grinding. I think she had some stuff playing on the radio. Princess Leia. Princess Leia was very active back when we had , um , the loft , the loft and processions. She would be there killing the mic.

S14: And this is one of many conversations , so maybe you're going to give it to.

S16: Us on another hard.

S4: Yeah , um , for sure. You know , Candy's actually a really good resource. I think she remembers things , and she she pays attention. Yeah , she's a scholar.

S14: Huh ? Mhm. We're going to be closing this episode playing your track from your album. Could you introduce that song.

S4: What's that. This is Mickey Vale and you are listening to Special Way featuring Rachel Evans , produced by Pursuit Grooves.

S17: To the outside we prepare.

UU: In a special way. I want you in a special way. To hear the special way you know I want you. Okay. This is poetry.

S3: Emotion got me laid up wide open. With the bond that can't be broken. Truest words unspoken I'm drunk off that love potion. Number nine. You met me when I was going through troubled times. You stayed with me , prayed with me. Taught me how to find divine light at the end of the darkest tunnel. Now for the.

S4: Contents of my open heart upon.

S17: You and let this love.

S3: Rain down. Others in the past. Did you like a playground swing from your heart strings.

UU: Then bounce. So you scared ? I got more to the house. So be prepared. Cause I'm a.

S3: Big girl doing big things. Loving your vibe and all the pleasure it brings. Cause I dig yourself. Look deep into my eyes. And when your fingers do my hair. Yeah.

UU: Yeah. You get a special day from.

S2: Meridian Arts in KPBS. This is episode eight of Wrapped Diego , a San Diego Story. Our next episode features conversations with producer Frank Zee about North County's often overlooked contributions.

S18: If you came to my mom's bed in Salto , where I had my studio , all these cats have tagged up the whole door frame. It still preserved their icily most King d gangster. And they're all up there , man. They've all been right here in Oceanside.

S2: Rap Diego is a co-production of KPBS and Meridian Arts hosting co-creator Parker Edison. Episodes written by Jay Smith , Chris Reyes , Don Jaeger , and Stephen Fleck's extra. Special thanks to guest writer Melody Harrold. Editing by Platform Collection. Music soundtrack. By Monday Adams. Executive producer for KPBS is Lisa Jane Morissette , KPBS director of audio programming and Operations. Technical and operational support provided by KPBS technical producer sound designer Adrian Villalobos and KPBS producer Julio Ortiz Franco. This programming is made possible in part by the KPBS Explore Content Fund. Shout outs , in no particular order. Today's Moca Juda Plain , Jane Snow , the Product , Lauren DeRose , Audra de Rym Style Troupe , Nina Beretta and Queen Candy Cole.

UU: See y'all soon.