The '00s

S1: You are now listening to Meridian Arts.

S2: The story you're about to hear is true. It takes place in the wild world of rap , and contains mature content that may not be appropriate for all audiences , like N.W.A said.

S3: Parental discretion is advised. Yo , whatever. Yo , this young man , five degree tropical representation. And I'm with my man. Mad joker. You know all we do. San Diego's finest one. Love y'all.

UU: Peace right now. Right about now. But right about now. Rep. Rep. Rep. Rep. Rep. Rep. Rep. Rep. Now tell our. People.

S4: People. Try me.

UU: Like me. Spoken out. People want me. To let y'all know. No no , no. Zooms in.

S4: On people. Try me , like me. Hey , Dalton. Our people wanna be right. We gotta do. Something.

S2: Something. I'm 46 years old and a real rap aficionado. As I'm sure you know , the culture of hip hop has four major tenants deejaying , breakdancing , graffiti , and rap. I study a mall , but I'm really interested in rap. Fascinated by all the impact of its writers. I've played my share of shows all over the country , and one thing that allows you is a ton of conversation about the art and history of rap. Me and my cats have closed down many a venue arguing about where my city sits in the world , and why hip hop's 50th anniversary yielded a ton of articles and interviews on the subject. Being the black rap nerd that I am , I started to know that certain cities have something about their contribution that makes them unique. San Diego is one of those cities I tapped in with some of those close friends I've been discussing rap with over the years , and we put together this series to map out the whole thing for you. But here's the deal. This isn't the history of rap. This isn't a complete timeline , but it is what happened ? Some details will be left out when we talk about Gilligan's Island. We don't mention all the other people that went on boats that day. We talk about the professor Marianne , maybe like five other people. That's it. Keep that in mind while you're listening. There's tons of people we could mention , but this is about San Diego rap and the incredible way it got where it is today. Are you ready ? Then let's go. This is San Diego story.

UU: San Diego story.

S2: In our previous episode , we said farewell to the 90s as the new millennium ushered in big changes. 1999 brought Napster groundbreaking music downloading software that transformed the distribution of MP3's and other digital audio files. Founded by Shawn Fanning and Shawn Parker , its popularity was met with cases of copyright infringement , leading to its closure in 2001. Before the internet , poster space was limited to physical space. The internet created infinite billboard space , and without the record companies defining business protocols , artists promotions became a complete free for all. This shift in direction created an opportunity for innovation and exploration. Local publications such as City Beat magazine , known for their annual music demo reviews , emerged as dependable sources for discovering new rap acts. Conversational platforms such as Myspace became a valuable tool for up and coming rappers to showcase themselves to potential fans and booking agents. Are there any other major label artists that you have memorable moments with that you're like ? That was a good dude.

S5: Definitely diamond for sure.

S6: The psychotic , neurotic.

S5: Dude , that's what I'm saying. He hit me on Myspace. I'm like , yeah , all right , whatever. That's not you. And then he's like , yeah , send me some beats. Like what I heard on your Myspace. That's how it started. And then I got him on my compilation. I had him on the track with him in blue. I produced , and then also did another solo check on my album , on my album that he that I produced , and then his new album that just dropped last year. I just produced a track for Fat Joe's on that album. Everybody saw. I starts like , an honor. You know what I'm saying , Dale ? Yeah , yeah.

S2: This is Mr. Brady , a highly respected rapper , producer and engineer deeply rooted in the San Diego backpack movement. His work , released on cassette at the time , was already considered classic in the early 90s. He and rapper Tony de schizo teamed up to put out a chillingly calm rap track that resonates eerily to this day.

S7: The mad moon is rising , sliding to its peak , clouds throughout the sky , hypnotizing the weak who speak of confrontation. The weather station waiting for the swarm at the Storm Peaks formation.

S5: I never forget because I think when that came out we were doing like runs up to LA a lot. We were on a little indie label and um , never forget driving to LA.

S2: I was up late record and recording and at midnight Paul's pause.

S5: Tapes Show me to whom.

S2:

S5: Um , mocha only and prevail from Swollen Members. They went to San Diego. They just moved to San Diego and stayed a while. You know , I never forget I met them. I don't know if you heard about the loft parties downtown. They were like the super populist thing , and they used to just throw the ultimate parties , and everybody's just stay there , crash here. But one day , only in prayer was there. And I think we freestyled with them for a long ass time. And that's how the connection started there. And then I think they were in tune with schizo because schizo was already. He already had. Who are you talking to ? And they really liked that. And I think Stormborn just dropped , you know , he got invited to Canada , you know , by Mad Chow and in schizo brought me in jail. And that was around 96. We went up there and we did a show up there and it didn't say and it was insane. It was snowing. Never forget that. It was the craziest experience.

S2:

S5: I get off on the other side of the border , hop the border and run across. It was crazy , man. We did a lot to get there. He was known like Massive Universe who's known and then schizo and myself , pretty much San Diego. That's what they knew about.

S2: Our hand-to-hand tape. Hustle literally took us from the bottom to the top of the continent.

S1: Writer Jay Smith.

S6: Before we get started , can I ask who I have the pleasure of speaking with today ? My name is Alex Kuchma.

S8: I'm a student , uh , aspiring academic , hip hop historian , and I've been in and out of the kind of indie music journalism slash hip hop history scene for 13 years.

S6:

S8: I remember finding Mad Joker's death in the arena. Um , pretty early on. That would have been , I think , through something like Second Spin. I was buying CDs through , um , and that was pretty readily available at the time. Um , definitely Mr. Brady's catalog. Um , I would have been familiar with and a few others. In 2018 , I started studying , uh , Canadian hip hop in a lot more depth. Um , and really took it upon myself to try to understand that community to a better degree. And when I started moving westward , so not so much when I was studying places like Halifax or even places like Toronto , but certainly once I started going westward to places like Saskatoon or certainly Vancouver and Victoria , you had a lot of those communities really idolizing the underground DIY West Coast scene , and they were huge fans of people like Orko , the psychotic alien. So Orko actually goes up to Saskatoon. At a certain point , he records a project called Rules of Thumb with , uh , with isosceles. And you started hearing these kind of stories. There was this idolization clearly of what was going on on a local front in California then , particularly places like San Diego. And I became really interested , particularly in collectives like Masters of the universe.

S6:

S8: Oh , man. Okay , there's a couple different ways that I can tackle that. Um , although I am still interested in great sounding music , I'm also interested in the most authentic music. Music that can act as a window into that scene that I love. There's music that exists that may not end up giving me or putting me in that headspace , but that does operate as an authentic window into the past when it comes to a lot of the underground West Coast rap music , and especially what's going on in San Diego. I think that is some of the most authentic art that's being made right. You have a lot of these four track demo tapes that they're literally just like live recordings of house party sessions. Almost. Right. Um , you hear people talking in the background , you hear people laughing , having a good time. And if you're like me and if you're truly just interested , you have an affinity for the scene , then these are like the best artifacts to go to.

S6:

S8: Hip hop history has become a popular thing to engage in. Um , people listen to podcasts like Drink Champs or , um , I don't know , they just they have their hip hop podcasts on their phone or what have you. Um , and you see , a lot of these conversations get kind of , I don't know , propagated into hip hop discourse or just general discourse in general. Um , and as a hip hop head , as somebody that understands all the kind of connections to who those characters are , it really enhances your appreciation for those stories. It enhances your appreciation for those characters and what their significance is. If you do a bunch of interviews in San Diego , you're going to have a better understanding and appreciation of Project Blowed. In LA , you're going to have a better appreciation for , um , even what New York rap was in some weird , esoteric way. Yeah. And San Diego made good music , great music , innovative music. The scene was thriving. There was a real hip hop community in San Diego. Not every scene had a community , but San Diego had your hip hop shops. It had hip hop radio. It had big hip hop events that were running through like the B-Boy summit. Um , when I mentioned hip hop shops , you guys had access to hip hop. Like , if we're really going back to , like , my first introductions to San Diego rap , having the only two ways of acquiring music in Canada being underground hip hop.com and Access hip Hop San Diego , it was San Diego and Boston. Those were the two places I could buy rap music. You guys had every ingredient to make up a really , really dope scene. And not every local community had that.

S6: Well , it's been a really , really appreciate this. And I also wanted to say , man , you know , I've checked out the underground vault , man , and the work you're doing is , uh , it's awesome the stuff you did , uh , you know , on , uh , Masters of the universe , man , was just , uh , it was dope. I'm a huge fan of , uh , of your work , so keep at it , please , man. And I thank you for your time , man. Appreciate you.

S8: Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate you as well. And I appreciate the kind words.

S2: Selling music directly to customers establishes a human connection that still stands unparalleled. And the interview Alex mentioned Access Music as one of the few locations he could get. Underground rap in Canada , access was a popular mom and pop record store located in Pacific Beach. It closed in 2016 , but its 15 year run showcases the power of the hands on sales approach. Tell you what , let's take a quick break and when we return , we can discuss a couple other local names that were moving out of state. Welcome back. We're currently exploring Access Music , an indie record store that specializes in San Diego rap. They sold hard copies from local favorites such as Big June Trust One , as well as nationally recognized acts like Mocha Only and Ganja Sufi , and mixtapes continue to play a significant role in our story , particularly in these mom and pop spots like Access Music where they thrive. In 2000 , D.J. fingers released his MVP mixtape San Diego Rappers , alongside mainstream names like E-40 , Crazy Bone. Here's a Little Piece of Players , a single featuring two short and pimp C of unique.

S4: And if he's a hater , you need to get some rest.

UU: I love hiphop , be.

S4: Also like a boss. Come and say.

S2: Another name you would have seen on local store shelves. DJ demon , also known as Bernard Gonzalez , he's an accomplished DJ and mixtape veteran. At one point he was doing video mixtapes.

S6: I was I was deejaying video for a second just to kind of stand out , but that kind of went away. It was a it was a fad thing , you know , basically the playing the music videos for the songs. Right , right. Um , you know , it's cool for like 70s , 80s and 90s , 2000 stuff. But now videos nowadays people aren't doing like a ton of new videos there are out there , but not a ton. So it's just a different game for for that. So that's why I stopped doing the music video stuff. The demand for it just wasn't there as much. What were some of the differences between the 90s as a DJ here in San Diego and the 2002 , as far as as far as music and and and deejaying and being able to do what you can do as a DJ , um , is concerned , you know , back in the 90s , there was a vinyl. You had to buy your vinyl , obviously , but on the vinyl you had instrumental Metal acapella. You had like , maybe three remixes. You know what I mean ? So , like , there was a lot more , um , not a lot more. There was just more stuff to kind of make these mixtapes where you can be more creative ish. You know what I mean ? Like , like , for instance , Jay-Z , when he did The Black Album , he came out with an all acapella album. Like , that's a brilliant move. Almost 20 remixes , a dope ass remixes , uh , mixtapes , people made from the Jay-Z blackout , you know what I mean ? So that's how important acapella is. And instrumentals were back and that's what we as DJs , those were our tools to kind of put together.

S2: We got DJ Deman because he's super official , but also for another reason. The first half of this episode has a lot to do with artists traveling , planning , SoCal flags far from here , hand in hand , hustling their tapes out of state , and demon knows all about that.

S6: The first mixtape I ever made was actually on cassette and it was called um , it was with when I was with AT&T and I made it with Mike check and it was called another terrorist takeover is what is what it was called. Yeah. We probably couldn't get away with calling it that now , but yeah , it's called another terrorist takeover. It came out on cassette and we did like 100 of them. You know , something real quick. I think that was 94. And then in 95 I came out with my first solo mixed CD , which was called Accept the Truth , which was another playoff at Accept the Truth. I actually made that mixed right before I went to Europe with , uh , Mad Joker and Cosmo Lexis , mad culture , that culture , you know , we all took product up there to Europe and , you know , played a couple radio things and sold CDs. And yeah , that was my first solo mix CD.

S2: One of the names you've heard , but we haven't discussed yet is Mad Joker. This is the second time he's come up. Mad Joker is akin to Wu-Tang , ODB , not in a literal sense , but in the way his intense candor is so rare he seems eccentric. He embodies the ideal artists that we as artists aspire to be. Joker fearlessly embraces authenticity , remaining true to himself regardless of the consequences. If we had time , I played this entire interview. The unfiltered truth presented here is a moment I was surprised to experience , and you're privileged to hear. He's the first rapper to ever win a San Diego Music Award , but he'll get to that and everything else.

S4: Yes , yes , it's big up to all who figured big up. That's up to all who forget messed up. My name is Mad Joker , originally known as Papa Jam in this city , but my name is Mad Joker to all who don't know. And I'm very , very glad to be here.

S2: So let's just start from the beginning , man.

S9:

S4: It was just the Jamaican masses and a little underground cast where I'm about to bring up this. You know , that's what's forming , right ? We're going to Dancehalls , and we used to meet each other at KCRW , and I remember one time we all at KCRW , all of us. Oh , yes , because Taylor Thompson is responsible for putting that together in 96 , 97. And I get there and that's it. We got a little crew. We made culture. I got me metaphor , you know what I'm saying ? Uh , Sam , you know me a little. We had our little fickle , you know , hobgoblins. And I run into everybody. King d I c Lee Brady. Oh , my God , everybody. First generation at that radio station that night , Tony Schizo. I'll go first.

S9: This is what yours is. What yours is.

S4: 96 , 97 , 95.

S9: So like midnight mid mid 90s.

S4: It was mad culture boot without a soul. And that's it that I knew of. We had something to do to sound like passengers. We had to get going. We had a guy that wore glasses and didn't say nothing. That was our producer. Man. Knew everything about everything. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Everything could spring us up. Had speaker on top of speaker on top of speaker on top of speaker. On top of speaker. On top of speaker. On top of speaker. On top of speaker. And I'ma tell all y'all the real. Like we only thing that really left us all up. And everybody to this day it does the business rocket. My greatest mentor of all this rock Arbor science. He told me one time , you guys are great , but it's more than me and great. You have a bunch of artists and you're all good. So what ? What do any of you know about the business ? If I give you the contract right now and pick anyone you just mentioned Oracle , Tony , anyone. And I started my dad with no royalties. They no splits. I said not only that and just went on just a rant about how he just was so right man. And he was honest. Well , artists here , we didn't have a business here at all. And you know what that means. That means we were all artists here. Now , I want you all to think about that. You're surrounded by a bunch of artists who are artists , too. And that's all I give yourself for me years. No secretary , no producers. That really new business , no building talk , no suit to see , no lawyer to know , no percentage. You know , not knowing anything. Publishing nothing.

S2: Hold up. Stop the tape. Listening close to this and be ready to rewind it. Joker is about to explain why , for all its talent , San Diego rap wasn't completely dominating the mainstream. Listen.

S4: How many of you really know anything about the business at all ? To make a living and pay your bills for music ? How many ? How many in 1996 and five. And four. Please. We have so much ego. We didn't get about the business. Business ? What do we care ? We just gonna make it one day somehow. What's going wrong ? Wrong. And that's what play this is , playing this to this day. We all had to teach each other. Man. Significance , man. All right , so you ask me , early 90s. Man I dropped a 98 , uh , a Gotham takeover , and in 99 , I dropped this album right here , which I won the best album of the year for hip hop music. And I was up there with , you know , all kinds of , you know , blink 182. And on him , you say.

S9: That's the CMA , right ? Yeah. So what years , what year is this then ? Who doesn't ? Let me ask you this. The 90s. Right. So the 90s is the 90s is one way that's that's going everywhere.

S4:

S9: And then the 2000 come. That's a different era , right ? Maturity.

S4:

S9: The difference between the two eras , man.

S4: Real quick skills. And then utilizing those skills like Ben Kenobi , we had to learn. I had to learn patois correctly. I just spit correctly at a DJ correctly. I had to rhyme correctly. I had to do my stuff , find my style , find my pattern , find who I was gonna be on the mic like Redman. Everybody else. Right , right , right. What's your name ? Is. I'm telling you , it was fire cut throat bullets everywhere. But in 2000 , everyone were fine. They wanted to put a shout out loud , you know , like. Like you were doing earlier. You know , it's a 90s and 2000 , a cable. We need to , like , really break down. Okay , 95 , 96 and go get King D and go get Oracle. And I mean these people and the ones I phoned them in or something. I don't want.

S9: To give too much.

S4: Away , but okay.

S9: You know what I'm saying. But that's that's part of okay.

S4: I don't know what I mean. Yeah. Sorry.

S9: Sorry. We I'm sorry.

S4: You got that ? All right ? I love you all. You know what I mean ? My name is Mad Joker.

S2: Joker from Meridian Arts and KPBS. This is episode seven of Wrap Diego a San Diego Story. Our next episode looks into the legacy of women in San Diego rap , including an exclusive interview with rapper turned playwright Mickey Vale.

S10: I've always felt like , you know , if there's no door opening for us or , you know , I think , you know , collectively us , then let's build a door. Let's build a window. Let's build our own house.

S2: Wrap Diego is a co-production of KPBS and Meridian Arts. Host and co-creator Parker Edison. Episodes. Written by Jay Smith , Kris Reyes , Don Jaeger , and Stephen Fleck's extra. Special thanks to guest writer Melody Harold. Editing by Platform Collection. Music soundtrack. By Monday Adams. Executive producer for KPBS is Lisa Jane Morrissette , KPBS director of audio programming and operations. Technical and operational support provided by KPBS technical producer sound designer Adrian Villalobos and KPBS producer Julio Ortiz Franco. This programming is made possible in part by the KPBS Explore Content Fund. Shout outs , in no particular order. Two little kids , Castlevania , Scandalous Joe , Iraq , Friday News , rusty Ray Smith , Dirty Dido Brown and Fat Mark.

S1: Now playing Simple by Tony the Schizo featuring Mad Joker.

S4: This is an attack on.

S11: The art of mining. One man put down the clock and then one tell you. Let him Joker man. Come on , a combination we don't like. No one like number one from Peter. Paul. And done with jewelry and rings. And a man schizo murdered.

S3: In schizophrenic clinic. Verse one. Right up on my version. You know , I got that swerving style. Compile all my info with my instrumental. Even though I'm sick to your wife Slam. Damn this proposition. And they can't just stop. And I think I might flip because he goes on a trip to me when they run wild. Honey child , if I had a mouth full of gold , you wouldn't be so cold to me. No. And yeah , where am I supposed to be ? The one that has to run if I don't pack my gun everywhere ? I'm never scared when the black sun like Sexton. You gotta walk around with protection. But in a deeper perception of your brain. I'll leave. Explain about the follies of man and woman. Kindness. Open your mind to my rhymes. While the flute spray and the fruit spray make me drop a schizo. Had a vision and make decisions with their brain. Tonight they may be turning over leaves. But instead they turn. And tricks and tricks. Play the game quick. Cause they mentals on the mental. Let me break it down for the simple.

UU: I know what I'm waiting , I know what it is. When they know I know what I am.

S11: Sure I know what to.