S1: Welcome to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bowen. A non-profit that serves homeless veterans is now prohibited from offering them treatment for substance use disorder.
S2:
S1: Then a new true crime podcast from KPBS chronicles the exoneration of a woman who was convicted of murdering her husband. Plus , we talk about battery fires , college athletics and Katy Perry on this week's roundup. That's just ahead on KPBS roundtable Veterans health is paramount. In a county like San Diego with a large military population , some vets need extra help in the form of substance abuse treatment , but at one facility , the needed support was not up to par. In fact , Veterans Village of San Diego just had its substance abuse treatment license revoked by the State of California due to several violations. Here to speak about this story are Greg Moran and Andrew Dyer. Greg is an investigative reporter with I news source. He broke this story just over a week ago. And Andrew is a military and veterans affairs reporter at KPBS. Both of you , welcome to roundtable.
S2: Good to be here.
S1: Thanks , Greg. Your organization , I news source has been reporting on the substance abuse treatment program at Veterans Village since 2022. Tell us what that earlier reporting uncovered.
S2: Well , it showed that this was an organization. It's been around since the early 80s. It's nationally renowned. But over the past few years it seemed to have developed a certain number of problems. There were complaints from residents and clients there. That kind of run ran the gamut from the physical conditions , a kind of dirty , the quality of the food. But then other , more serious concerns about drug use on campus , understaffing and security. And over a period of months , I newsource spoke to , I think , more than 40 people who worked there had previously worked there , people who were living there to develop a picture of a place that was providing these services , which are , you know , important and in demand , but at a level that was making a lot of people quite uncomfortable.
S1: And is this only an inpatient treatment program ? Someone has to , you know , check in. They have to live at the facility. Their entrance and exits are sort of controlled.
S2: Yes , it's a residential. They do several things at on campus through this organization for veterans and for non veterans. But the substance abuse piece of it is a residential inpatient drug treatment and counseling program that does restrict movement , that does move people through a process. But you have to live there and you have to comply and abide by the rules.
S1: And scrutiny of veterans. Village really intensified as some of their clients started dying. Tell me about those deaths and what we know about them. Yeah.
S2: During the course of the reporting in 2022 , uh , there were several deaths of clients at Veterans Village. Some of these were on campus at the main site at Pacific Highway. Others were not. But they involved people who were enrolled or who were residents there. You know , the most disturbing ones were drug overdoses. There were several drug overdoses there , mostly fentanyl. I think the DEA at one point got involved and was trying to figure out where the drugs were coming from and things like that But since the start of 2022 , there were , I think five deaths in 2022 , and there was another in 2023 , in September. And there was a seventh one just this past March. That was again another fatal drug overdose.
S1: And so the state has revoked their license for treating substance use disorder. This doesn't happen very often.
S2: I mean , there there there is a page on the website for the Department of Health Care Services , which is the agency which oversees license and regulates programs like Veterans Village that lists everybody who's on a suspension or revocation or probation. It's not a long list , you know , so there's many , many of these programs statewide. And while people do get their license suspended or put on probation , which is something that had happened to Veterans Village. Yeah , I mean , I think pulling the ticket , I mean pulling somebody's license for any of these. It's a serious step by a regulator. I don't think they do it lightly. And you're right. I don't think it happens very often. It does happen , but it is an uncommon event.
S1: We'll get more into what this means for the patients who are at this facility. But , Andrew , I want to talk to you about what kind of stature this organization has in San Diego. So Veterans Village , as Greg mentioned , has been around since the early 80s. I think I can recall in 2018 , during the hepatitis A outbreak , which was really ravaging the homeless community , they were called upon to offer one of these temporary shelters to kind of give people a clean place to sleep at night while we tried to work through that public health emergency. Tell us about this organization's history. And you know what their stature is in San Diego ? Well , I.
S3: Mean , whenever you talk about veteran services and homeless services , I mean Veterans Village , I think for a lot of us is one of the first organizations that comes to mind. You know , there are similar facilities across the country. There are lots of veterans villages. Their annual stand down program is something that's also been replicated across the country where they've they get all of these service providers together in one place , and they they bring people in and they help them connect with VA services , and they help them connect with housing services. And they really do facilitate a lot of the things that people need to get back on their feet or to get into treatment. A lot of the issues , especially people who are homeless , that they have , is just knowing who to turn to for help or how to access services. And so an organization like Veterans Village is really important in helping kind of point them in the right direction. So , um , they are an important piece of kind of a robust veteran support network all around San Diego.
S1:
S3: So while it is an important component of the overall services at Veterans Village , it's not the only one. And in fact , some of the folks that are there for the substance use treatment program , once this license suspension came through , the VA was helping them , in some cases , enroll in other veterans Village programs so that they could continue to live there. So , Greg.
S1:
S2: So we talked about October 22nd. There were a number of deaths in March of 2023. The state which had investigated , as it always does , the facility after a death , um , had found a number of violations of regulations of policy and law at Veterans Village relating to all kinds of things. Record keeping , medication distribution , movement on and off the campus , things like that. They resolve this with the Veterans Village by agreeing to a settlement agreement , where they put their license on probationary status for 18 months , and that's a status where you can continue to operate. You operate fully , but the state is paying more attention to you. They can make unannounced visits , they can do all kinds of things. And it also has some conditions in it that training for staff , you know , better recordkeeping and things like that , that the the provider has to meet. So as I said earlier , there was a death in March felony of Jeffrey Connors junior overdosed on campus. That again triggered a visit from the state regulators , who came down in April and again found a smaller number , but still a number of violations of regulations there at the site. Some of those were repeat violations. They had been cited earlier and this has formed the basis for the license revocation and the license suspension. It says in the in the formal accusation document that the conditions there are inimical to the health , welfare and safety of clients , and because of that , they felt they had to step in and that either another's probationary period wouldn't work. They must have felt that they had to , you know , pull their ticket.
S1: So this officially took effect on Monday. What is happening to the patients who were in this program ? Yeah.
S2: The status now is that the licence is suspended. The revocation process can take longer. Veterans village can appeal that. They can challenge that. An administrative law court that could take a while , but the suspension halts all activity there. So when that happened , which was a late last week , it kind of caused a bit of a scramble , particularly for the county of San Diego. So the county of San Diego sends a number of people to Veterans Village through the drug Medi-Cal program , which pays for substance abuse services and counseling. At the time that that the county found out about this , they had 74 people living there. And they it really caused them to kind of scramble to find other placements in programs for these people , housing for some of them , housing and placement for both. And just to try to clear the campus before Monday , which they have done. So they're no longer any county clients there. The Veterans Administration also had to do a bit of scrambling , as Andrew explained , they kind of offered to people who were in programs there. They said they would find other programs for them and other ways to allow them to remain there on campus. But it is important to remember that the place is not empty. They're still offering services and doing things for people. But this piece of it , the substance use disorder licensed counseling services , are at the moment shut down.
S1: I'm thinking about how difficult it can be to convince a patient in to actually enter one of these treatment programs , even those who wish to enter treatment programs can't always find placement in one of them. And , you know , this population is is a very high needs population. These are the folks who can't afford to go off to some rehab program in Malibu on the beach , you know.
S3: And , you know , they have like a caseworker , and they cultivate these one on one relationships with veterans who are living , you know , in some of these encampments. And they are constantly trying to work to find solutions for them , whether it's at Veterans Village or through some other program. So any time your organization takes like a reputational hit right. You know , it just people who maybe used to associate the names Veterans Village with an organization doing good things in the community. Well , you know , now they're hearing negative things about them. And so it's just it's that kind of reputational harm.
S1:
S3: They sent out a statement basically saying that they felt like some of the reporting was unfair. And I followed up with their their vice president of communications. And she said that the state's numbers are misleading. Seven people have died , but , you know , five of them , I think is the number were off campus kind of getting into maybe a little bit of hair splitting , right , really taking contention with the fact that some of these deaths are not , according to Veterans Village like , directly because of something at their facilities. So what I'm hearing from them , they are not citing specifics in in Greg's reporting or in new sources reporting , but it seems like they are saying that this is something that a news organization has drummed up , and that is why these actions are occurring.
S1: Greg , I gather that Veterans Village has not been super cooperative with its news source , as you all have been reporting on them.
S2: No , not since I've been working on this story , which is since like early in the spring. They were very upset about the reporting in 2022 , did think it was mischaracterized what they were doing and was inaccurate. The reporting has never been corrected or clarified or retracted or anything , and they haven't spoken to me. This statement they put out , they wouldn't even even give to us. But certainly that aside for a moment , I mean , I think there are two issues. One is the number of deaths is , as Andrew mentioned , it is a bit of a hair splitting. I think the state's position here is that these were clients wherever they were. The other thing , it was interesting to me in getting Ahold of the the actual accusation , the kind of the charging document here that has led to the license suspension and the revocation that the state wants to do. You know , it doesn't really say we're pulling your license because you've had people die. I mean , it says we're pulling your license because of all these other problems that we have found , these deficiencies , they call them in how you're running the operation. They're about your record keeping , staffing , you know , stuff like that. That kind of gets at the larger issue of how things are being run at the facility. I mean , yes , as you mentioned , this is a difficult population , right ? I mean , sobriety is a very difficult thing to achieve and to hold on to. And I think the state's position here seems to be the way you're conducting yourself is not beneficial to people who are there. And we cannot let that continue. So , you know , I wish they would talk to me. I wish I could talk to them , but they've elected not to. Andrew.
S1: Andrew. Zooming out here a bit.
S3: If you are part of this population , you know , experiencing homelessness and abusing substances , then being a veteran is kind of a good thing , because that means there's a whole network of resources right there for you. There are teams of people. There are entire organizations that exist only to help you get out of that situation. So this population of people , you know , they are particularly vulnerable. A lot of people join the military out of traumatic environments. So sometimes going into service , you're already bringing trauma with you. People , of course experience all sorts of trauma while they serve. And then getting out of the military is traumatic in and of itself. It's a big change for people. So you are dealing with a population that has all sorts of reasons , maybe why they are in the situation that they're in. And , um , a lot of veterans go to and work for Veterans Village , you know , veterans go and work for the VA. That is what these people do so well is is connect with veterans. And they have that kind of , um , experience. So and especially in San Diego , um , San Diego was one of the better places if you need these services. They are here and there is capacity. There are people out there ready to help.
S2: Kind of the other side of the house , though , is you have to remember that there are people who are there from the VA , a kind of under the VA umbrella. Then there are people who come from the county , and it's those people through the drug Medi-Cal program , they were the larger , there were more of them. I think there were 74 of them , and I think there were 41 veterans there. They have a transitional housing program , which is different , but in that in this area we're talking about. So to me , it was like when the state moved that and suspended the license , the county system of substance abuse services , you know , they had to soak up 74 some people overnight. Now , they told me they have capacity and they can do that , and they were able to do it. But going forward now , you know , they Veterans Village had a contract with San Diego County that paid them about $6 million a year to provide substance abuse services for people. So now , if you're talking about I think it was the the capacity was like a headcount was like 100 some people. So you take 100 some beds out of that system , which is now , you know , getting greater demand on it from the care court and the other kinds of behavioral health services that are being brought to bear to try to solve the homeless problem. I got I think that's going to have a ripple on effect down the road because it's yeah , the county has a big system. They've got a lot of capacity , but now they have 100 , some less capacity than they did before.
S1:
S2: Typically those can take a while. That can take many months , you know , and at the end of that , the result could be the same. The administrative law judge could agree with the state or could not. I think they're probably going to do that. As I said , they haven't spoken to me , but I get the sense and I've heard that they plan to appeal this. In the meantime , that temporary suspension order is in place so they won't be able to offer the services there. They have to deal with the VA and whatever the VA is going to do and things like that. So I think it's it's a challenging time for them to kind of get through this.
S1: I've been speaking with Greg Moran , investigative reporter with I news source and Andrew Dyer , military and veterans reporter at KPBS. Greg , Andrew , thank you both for sharing your reporting on this. You're welcome.
S3: Thank you.
S1: When roundtable returns , we dive into the story of Jane Doe , who got her murder conviction overturned by uncovering bad forensic work by the San Diego County Sheriff's Department.
S4: A lot of it was handled sloppily. Um , where , you know , you're collecting samples and saying that this is blood. It turns out it's not even like human blood. It might be dog blood.
S1: That's just ahead on roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bowen. Almost 25 years ago Jane Doe protects life. Running a horse ranch in north San Diego County was turned upside down. Dorothy's husband , Bob , was killed while going out on a run , and a few days later , Jane was arrested and charged with his murder. A combination of bad police work , sloppy forensics , and some very questionable legal representation led to Jane's conviction. But two years ago , Jane was exonerated. Free , Jane. A new seven part podcast from KPBS tells the story of Jane Doe trial , her time in prison and her ultimate exoneration. It was produced by Claire Tregear , KPBS deputy investigations editor , and is hosted by KPBS reporter Katie Sinclair. Katie , welcome back to roundtable.
S4: Thank you. Thanks.
S5: Thanks.
S1: So , Claire , this seven part podcast series is now out for people to listen to , but it's been a long time in the works. How did you come across the story of Jane Doe. Erratic. Yeah.
S6: Yeah.
S4: So I had known the story of Jane as as I think many people did , you know , just living in San Diego. But I'd really started hearing about her from other criminal justice reform advocates , kind of in the , in the Covid times , where she had been released from prison. But the charges against her hadn't yet been dismissed. And then after they were officially dismissed , we booked Jane to come on to KPBS midday Edition and began talking to her at that time about doing a more extensive podcast about her , and she was open to it. So so that's how the idea first came to be.
S1: So walk us back to that year , 2000.
S4: She was living in Valley Center. She has a passion for horses and was working on starting up a horse training business , and she was married with three kids. And her husband , Bob , uh , went out for a run , kind of a recovery jog. He'd recently run a marathon and did not come back. And that kind of that started the story. He was eventually found dead along the side of the road. And pretty quickly after that , Jane was arrested for his murder.
S1:
S7: I think we see that a lot. But just how many things were mishandled ? How many bananas moments there were , I don't know.
S1:
S7: One moment that had my jaw on the ground is when her defense attorney , instead of questioning the science that was being used in the courtroom , his strategy was to accuse her daughter of killing him. I can't still , I've read this script maybe 5 or 6 times in. My jaw is still dropping in studio right now. Also , I think they had a blood sample tubes with like the caps off and they were like transporting and handling these samples with no cap. I come from rural Florida. I spent most of my life there. I saw a lot of this happening in rural county departments , and I guess I kind of had this misconception coming to a big city like San Diego , that this wouldn't happen as often or as as egregiously. And so that was really compelling to me.
S1: Claire , you interviewed Jane Doe on several occasions.
S4: Um , and and so I think , you know , just when I , when I reached out to her , I at least had , you know , some kind of a little bit of a trust just by pure luck , by having the same name as her beloved daughter. I have done a fair amount of reporting on criminal justice issues , and so I think that I had people who could vouch for me and say that I that I treat stories fairly. Jane has had really negative experiences with media in the past where she was , you know , kind of misled about about intentions and tricked into doing stories that ended up being pretty inaccurate in some ways. Um , and so , you know , I think it was just by explaining to her what we were looking to do , the fact that she'd already been exonerated and the charges against her had already been dismissed probably helped. And then , you know , I went up and and visited her. She was living in LA. I spent some time with her , and then she was willing to come here to San Diego and kind of drive around and , and revisit these painful places from , from her past. And , you know , I think that that's in part because of the trust that I built with her. But also she is a fierce advocate now for not just her cause , but the cause of criminal justice reform. And so I think she saw the opportunity to speak for this podcast as another time to to really lay out her case and not just her case , but there's , um , what she sees as injustice in the , in the larger system.
S1: Let's talk more about that media coverage. So what are some examples of how Jane's story was handled by , you know , our peers , journalists and , uh , problems with that and how it sort of played out in , in her trial and ultimate conviction. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. I mean , the biggest one was that 48 hours came and did a full episode on Jane right after her husband was found murdered , kind of before her trial had had even begun. Um , and Jane was very open. Let the reporter into her house. Spent all of this time with her and then the story ended up coming out and really making it look like Jane was quite guilty. Using a lot of the the science , the forensics that we talk about in the podcast that was later found to be inaccurate. There was also , you know , I spent a lot of time reading through old newspaper clippings , and there were columnists at the Union Tribune who called her like Lady Macbeth and said that there was blood , you know , dripping from the floors down below. There was blood everywhere. A lot of it is just , you know , taking the information that you get from law enforcement or from prosecutors who say very clearly , this is what we found. There was blood everywhere , you know , that type of information. And then , you know , when you don't maybe have an alternative or you aren't able to question it yourself. I guess that's something that seems to happen a lot with reporting. That's hopefully being reformed somewhat now , as reporters learn more and get the opportunity to talk to outside experts and other perspectives.
S1: Clay or Katie was talking earlier about these vials of blood that didn't have caps on them. You know , clearly a lot of sloppy forensics work. Tell us more about that and how the San Diego crime lab kind of made some mistakes in this case.
S4: So what happened is that Jane had been , you know , continuing to appeal and try and get help on her case while she was in prison. And she finally was able to get some traction with the Innocence Project , which is kind of well known at this point for working on on multiple cases where people are then exonerated. And once she was connected with the Innocence Project , what they did was a complete reversal from Jane's original defense attorney , which Katie had mentioned. Just kind of bought all of the science that was presented by the prosecution and said , okay , yes , I guess , you know , you must be right that this murder occurred in this bedroom. And so our defense is going to be that Jane's daughter committed the murder instead of Jane , which , you know , multiple people in the podcast said was a very strange strategy. And so what the Innocence Project did instead is we're really going to look through all of the forensics here , re-examine and see that a lot of it was handled sloppily , where you're collecting samples and saying that this is blood. It turns out it's not even like human blood. It might be dog blood because the dog had like a bloody cut on its nose and slept in the bed , you know , all these different things. So they kind of just went through piece by piece , with all of the science that was presented in Jane's original case and basically dismantled a lot of it. And so that was , you know , kind of a larger theme of the podcast is that a lot of the forensics that have been used in courtroom trials for a long time , maybe don't really actually hold up to to modern scrutiny. And it was only once they were able to get DNA evidence examined , and found that the DNA under Bob Doherty's fingernails belonged to someone that was not Bob and was not Jane. That's what led to her , you know , ultimate exoneration.
S1: Katie KPBS doesn't tend to report a lot on individual crimes. We try to look at the bigger picture trends in in the system. However , Jane's story has larger ties into that criminal justice system.
S7: But you have to think about how many cases the people involved have handled over the years and how many other jurisdictions are like this. And we know from exoneration data that the vast majority of people getting exonerated now are people of color and of those very disproportionately black people. And there's layers to this , right ? Like black people tend to get harsher sentences. Black people and Latino people tend to need public defenders more often , so they have the cards stacked against them even more than Jane did. And this kind of thing is affecting them more often. Yeah.
S1: It was shocking to me that even though Jane did have access to her own private attorney , she didn't have to rely on a public defender. That attorney actually gave her really poor representation. Claire , what was it like interacting with the San Diego County Sheriff's Department , which , you know , obviously played a big role in Jane's wrongful conviction and the other county authorities that you had to turn to while reporting this.
S4: Yeah , I mean , I wasn't really able to get much of anything from the district attorney's office or the sheriff department in terms of any kind of response interview. One thing that we should mention is that there's a civil lawsuit going on now where Jane is , is suing over what happened to her. So that , you know , is probably partially why. But but the other thing that we wanted to do was , as Katie mentioned , you know , the fact that there were these problems in the crime lab really point to the potential for problems in many other cases because the same analysts , you know , worked on a lot of other cases. And in fact , as we say in the podcast , that the district attorney's office had to send out a letter to all , uh , public defenders saying there are potentially problems , but we're not going to tell you what cases. You know , there might be problems in. It's up to you to go back and look and see if these analysts worked on on cases in the past. And , you know , then you can come to us and try and , you know , get a new trial or whatever it might be. And so we really tried to get a list of all of the cases that these analysts had at least testified on or , you know , even better , worked on , did analysis for. And we weren't able to do that for a long time. We had to get our lawyers involved. We finally got this , you know , weird spreadsheet with a list of cases , but no information about the names of the defendants. It had these like really outdated record numbers that didn't apply to anything. And so , you know , we were basically stuck there in terms of being able to say , okay , you know , what other cases could potentially be implicated by the , the sloppiness in , in the crime lab.
S1:
S4: And I said , oh , so , you know , does does DNA kind of solve this problem ? And , you know , these outdated scientific methods are of the past ? And he said , no , um , there's , you know , there's still they're still being used widely in courtrooms today. It's still I think he said that someone is as at risk of being convicted in , in the court through these scientific methods as they were in 2000. You know , when , when Jane's case began. And I think you can actually even hear me in the podcast , I say , whoa , because that was that was really not what I was expecting to hear. So , yeah , um , it sounds like it's , you know , an ongoing problem. And as we talk about also our cultural obsession with forensics and science and like court cases , you know , CSI , all of these podcasts , movie shows you know , I think that kind of continues to uphold the idea in people's minds that , you know , that you can just , like , type something in and find someone's tooth marks and then know exactly who the killer was. And then when people are on a jury , they think , oh , yeah , you know , that's legitimate. I know that that works because.
S1: They've seen it on TV before. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S1: We've been talking about this podcast. Let's actually hear a little snippet of it. Here is a clip from the Free Jane podcast.
S9: And it was along this road where Bob's jacket was found.
S7: Almost 25 years ago. Jane Dart's life changed forever.
S9: If you turn left at Woods Valley Road , it was down that driveway that his body was found.
S7: Her husband Bob was murdered. His body was found along a valley center road. And pretty quickly , Jane became the prime suspect.
S1: Claire , how can people listen to this podcast.
S4: Well , you can search for Free Jane wherever you listen to podcasts. It's also on the KPBS investigates podcast. If you happen to be a subscriber already of that , or you can go to KPBS. Org slash Free Jane and listen to it there. Katie.
S1: Katie.
S7: And I just want to give Claire props for how she approached this with a lot of respect and heart.
S4: Thank you Katie. That's that's really nice. And Katie did a beautiful job hosting it. And the other thing is , I just want to give gratitude to Jane for being open to talking about her story and for , you know , all of the people who who are open in , in doing interviews and and providing information and resources for this.
S1: I've been speaking with Claire Trager , deputy investigations editor and the producer of Free Jane , and Katie Hyson , racial justice and social equity reporter at KPBS and the host of Free Jane Claire. Katie , thank you for joining us.
S6: Thank you. Thanks.
S1: When we come back , it's our weekly roundup. We'll chat about some other stories that caught our attention , including a new conference for Sdsu Athletics.
S10: What this means is that they're leaving the Mountain West. They're going to be joining Oregon State and Washington State across all sports in a reformed PAC 12 starting in 20 2627. So it's a few years out still.
S1: That's next on Round Table. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bowen. It's time for our weekly roundup , where we discuss some stories , both big and small , that caught our attention this week. And joining me in the studio is Jacob ERA , producer and reporter at KPBS. Hey , Jacob. Andrew.
S10: Andrew.
S1: So start us off. What have you been reading watching.
S10: Yeah , there was a lot of good reporting across the county about it. But I think what really kind of jumped out was there was evacuation warnings and orders as well. And a lot of people were just kind of getting worried.
S1: Yeah , I read that there were like 500 businesses that were evacuated. And it these public officials are always in a really tough spot when an emergency happens like this , because you don't want to be so cautious that you send off alarms and cause people to panic unnecessarily. But you also want to make sure people are safe. And it sounds like they didn't quite know how dangerous this fire was going to be. Right.
S10: Right. And then after the fact , because there were kind of all these like back and forth weather , how serious it was and what could potentially come from it. And the Voice of San Diego article , they spoke to the Air Pollution Control District , which usually investigates these odor complaints and air quality as a whole. And they said that there wasn't actually issues with , you know , air quality. So any odors in North County weren't linked to it. But a lot of people were reporting kind of smelling something bad or different.
S1: Yeah , it's a it's a tricky thing. Like sometimes you smell something that's bad and it may not be necessarily harmful to your health , but it's still causing you to feel kind of sick or , you know , gives you a headache or whatever.
S10: And then the timing of it is interesting because this past Wednesday , the San Diego County Board of Supervisors actually just passed a measure which is going to now bolster safety regulations for future battery storage projects and facilities in the county. So the timing was just , I don't know , strange and and how this all happened with the fire and then this , this measure coming right after. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , speaking of air quality , there was another story I had my eyes on this week about the Tijuana River Valley. So we know that , you know , we've we've been seeing a lot of sewage spill over from Tijuana into the Tijuana River. And then it kind of comes through that whole valley and empties out into the ocean on the United States side. We've known that this has really bad public health impacts for water quality. So if you swim in the ocean after a big sewage spill Spell. You know , your you're very likely going to get sick. We know a whole lot less about what these sewage spills mean for air quality. Are there gases or is there a bacteria that's being released into the air that could pose a public health threat ? And so there were researchers from UCSD and Sdsu that went out to different spots in the Valley and found that there were dangerous levels of two really , really dangerous and toxic gases. So this kind of caused some alarms for a lot of people. And then San Diego County government officials went out and did their own measurements and said , it looks like these gases are at safe levels. There's no danger to public health. So it's kind of a whiplash , you know , if you're living in the South Bay , you know , avoid this area because if you walk by it , you could drop dead or and then , you know , you've after that , you've got officials telling you actually there's nothing to be concerned about. Right.
S10: And it's confusing because you'll hear one thing from the scientists who are there taking their own measurements and taking their own people out of it for concerns over their health and safety. And then you hear from public officials something else. So it kind of makes you , I guess , maybe you have some trust issues or just want more information on the on the subject as a whole.
S1: Yeah , I know you have a sports story we got to talk about. I'm not a sports guy , but but you have at this one.
S10: So we've been talking about kind of what's been going wrong regarding , you know , battery fires and then toxic sewage , something that is going right. And , you know , something that we can cheer about , especially if you're a college sports fan in San Diego , is that San Diego State is hopefully officially headed to the Pac 12. After all , this has kind of been a long saga. What this means is that they're leaving the Mountain West. They're going to be joining Oregon State and Washington State across all sports in a reformed Pac 12 starting in 20 2627. So it's a few years out still. And then three other Mountain West members will go to. So Boise State , Colorado State and Fresno State. Uh , the one thing to note here is that the Pac 12 is currently at six schools right now with this setup.
S1: So it's more like the Pac six , right ? Right.
S10: But the important thing is that they have to actually get to eight. It's two shy of the NCAA minimum. So nothing happens if they can't get to that mark. And it matters because this could lead to a lot of economic opportunity for the school. Sdsu President Adela de la Torre called it a transformative moment for the entire university , and something that could lead to exciting partnerships and financial growth. Definitely.
S1: Definitely. Well , there was one thing that happened over the past week. It's not exactly a news story , but something that I spent a lot of time at , which was the NLG convention in Los Angeles. This is the Association of Lgbtiq+ Journalists. They have a convention every year. It was the first time in Los Angeles in quite a while , and it was my first time going to one of these conventions since 2006. So I was really excited to be back amongst my peers , you know , talking about issues around diversity in the newsroom around the blind spots that we as journalists sometimes have when we're reporting on LGBTQ+ issues or communities that we're not a part of. And I actually got to join a panel on artificial intelligence to talk about the ways that it's impacting our jobs in journalism and the protections that actually KPBS recently agreed to in our union contract. So , you know , you will not be hearing robot voices coming out on the air on KPBS. Well , I'm.
S10: Glad to hear that you were finally able to get back out. And AI is something we touched on a lot in the roundtable. I think it comes up in so many different ways , whether it's through legislature or just through hearing of advancements and how it is affecting things like the news industry. So yes , we are happy here at KPBS that we are continuing to do our own reporting here. Before we wrap up , you have one very important topic to hit on , and it has to do with pop culture. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely. So people may be aware that the VMAs , the MTV Video Music Awards happened this week , and one of the awards they give out is the most iconic performance. Now , when I think of the most iconic performances at the VMAs. The first thing that comes to mind is Madonna performing Like a Virgin in 1984 , basically humping the stage , you know ? It was a real transformational moment when when America saw that on television. Also another Madonna performance with Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and even Missy Elliott that , um , feature that infamous kiss. And then there's Lady Gaga's performance of paparazzi , where she , you know , was bleeding from her stomach. I mean , so many great moments at the VMAs. The performance that actually won this award was Katy Perry's performance of raw in 2013. I have no recollection of this performance. I had to go back and watch it like what was so great about this performance and Katy Perry , you know , people are loving to hate on her right now because she's having some questionable collaborations in , in Hollywood. Also , some of her music that's coming out sounds like it was written by AI. But yeah , a real miss on the VMAs. And I know I'm not the only person who is very much online and unhappy about this award.
S10: So I gotta ask if you're at least questioning this award going to her.
S1: Um , I will have to go with Madonna's 1984 performance of Like a Virgin. That was just such a seminal moment in television , and it's also the one that I think has had the most staying power. You know , we're still talking about it here 40 years later. And and people can still kind of picture that in their mind. So I would go with Madonna Like a Virgin , but there were plenty of other great choices and they went with Katy Perry. So I got to say , not not a great decision.
S10: MTV Hot take. You heard it here first. Mhm.
S1: Well that is it. Thank you so much for listening. I've been speaking with Jacob Air , reporter and producer at KPBS. Jacob , thanks for joining.
S10: Thanks for having me.
S1: And that's our show for today. You can listen to KPBS roundtable anytime as a podcast , if you like. The Radio Roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays and again on Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any thoughts on today's show or ideas for a future one , you can email us at roundtable@kpbs.org. You can also leave us a voicemail at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers this week were Brandon Truffaut and Ben Read lorsque. This show was produced by Jacob Air and Ben Lacy. Brooke Ruth is Roundtable's senior producer and I'm Andrew Bowen. Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.
