S1: Welcome to KPBS roundtable. I'm Scott Rodd. San Diego's city council has once again declared a crisis over the lack of shelter for homeless residents.
S2: When they become homeless , you have to quickly house them , and you also have to house people who've been on the street for a long time.
S1: Then the San Diego County Board of Supervisors passed a rule to rein in profanity and threats at public meetings. Now it's being challenged in court on First Amendment grounds. Plus , we discuss the Olympics , California wildfires , and other big stories in the roundup. That's just ahead on KPBS roundtable. In a unanimous vote on Tuesday night , San Diego City Council once again declared a crisis over the lack of shelter for the homeless. This comes on the heels of an hours long hearing last week about Mayor Todd Gloria's proposal to flip a vacant commercial building into a 1000 bed mega shelter. But the city's tentative lease for that space is drawing skepticism from some elected officials. The city Council's discussion on the mega shelter has been punted to September at the earliest. Here to break down all of this is Blake Nelson , homelessness reporter for the San Diego Union Tribune. Hey , Blake. Hey.
S3: Hey. Thanks for having. Me.
S1: Me. And Lisa Halberstadt , she's a senior investigative reporter at Voice of San Diego. Hey , Lisa.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1: So , Blake , let's start with you.
S3: It relaxes some health and safety rules that normally apply if you're creating housing or temporary housing. But the original declaration didn't expire , so the vote a few days ago was largely symbolic. It certainly highlights that the city already does not have enough shelter for for everybody asking for help , much less everybody's sleeping on local streets , and the city is about to lose hundreds of beds for a variety of reasons. So this certainly draws more attention to what is most definitely a crisis. But the council has not yet gone as far as declaring homelessness an emergency or actually changing the law to further reduce some of the regulations surrounding establishing new shelter.
S1: And so if in terms of declaring an emergency , what does that mean ? How is that different than what we're what's happening right now.
S3: So the language San Diego law defines an emergency in a very specific way. And so there would be a lot of legwork would be required to prove that what is happening is an emergency. Although I think you can make a compelling case that it is. And so that especially ahead of the City Council recess happening right now in August , that legwork did not happen , but they still could come back to this and declare emergency an emergency later. Or they could just change the law and loosen some of some of the rules that currently apply when setting up new shelters , and that would essentially do the same thing. So this is definitely still on the table for a future meeting.
S1: You had mentioned that there are hundreds of shelter beds that are going to be lost. I do want to get into that. But first , let's talk about the mayor's proposal for this 1000 bed mega shelter.
S2: So right now the space we're talking about is a warehouse that's about 65,000ft² , and it's a multi-level building. It's got some outdoor space. And he really wants to make this essentially a few different shelters in one shelter , a thousand bed shelter. Now , this would be the largest ever semi-permanent shelter. And I say semi-permanent because right now the lease proposal was for 30 years. As you kind of touched on , we have a lot of shelter beds that are going to be coming offline. And part of the issue is that the city hasn't had long term control of those properties , or there are different details that make it so they can't be around forever. Um , and so that's one of the selling points that the mayor is making here is like the city would have control of this property. What he's envisioning is that it would have an array of services on site , you know , medical , dental , behavioral health , and there would be , you know , different areas because this is multi-level and there are sort of different spaces. You would have like about three different areas , one of which would have about 700 beds , a bit more than that , but about 700 beds. I will say , you know , the mayor is really emphasizing that he wants to make this a very inviting space. You know , think about like , you know , artwork and greenery , outdoor space , gathering places. But what I'm hearing a lot from homeless San Diegans and advocates is concerned about the large number of beds that are at least initially envisioned for this space.
S1:
S2: But , you know , one thing that I think is always just so important to point out when we're talking about new shelters , if you don't have a housing plan to go along with that , meaning you don't have places that people can go or a plan to get people attached to different subsidies or assistance to get them into housing shelters can become defacto housing. That's not what we want them to be a successful shelter or homelessness response that has shelter in. It is one that people are flowing through the shelter and getting into housing. And so that's a question , you know , that really I would say , you know , has dominated the discussions too , is like , what is the plan for housing one of the big , you know , concerns that's come up with this is that the city expects that it would cost about $30 million a year to operate the shelter. Now , that is the equivalent of more than 60% of the city's shelter budget for this current budget year. And the city doesn't have a long term funding plan for this. And meanwhile , they also , as a city would be , at least for the initial tenant improvements would be pulling some money that they could use for permanent housing. And so , you know , the mayor is making the case. You know , we really need a safe haven for people to get off the streets and that the need is just more dire than ever because we're having , you know , shelters that are going to be going offline. Um , a lot of folks who are opposed to this are saying , well , yes , we do think that there's a need for more shelter , but how does this fit into the overarching plan ? Are we still going to be making investments in housing ? Now the mayor will say , yes , absolutely. You know , and we'll point to the $20 million that they're putting toward permanent housing this year. I think this is something I'm going to be looking to see in that upcoming hearing. If this comes back , is is there more of a cohesive discussion of what role this plays and what are the other pieces that the city's thinking about ? Because , you know , it's not enough to just provide shelter in order to like to kind of come back to that concept. I said before , in order to effectively reduce homelessness , you have to do three things. You have to prevent people from becoming homeless. When they become homeless , you have to quickly house them , and you also have to house people who've been on the street for a long time. It's really hard to do those things successfully , so it would be just interesting to see , you know , we've been hearing more conversations about prevention. Um , but also people are spending a lot of time in existing shelters , not getting housing.
S1: Like , uh , one , I want to make sure listeners have a picture in mind of , like , where this shelter will be. I know it's at the cross street of Kintner and Vine. If you could describe a little bit about where that is and what's around it , but also , you know , a thousand bed shelter that's just massive.
S3: You can easily see the airport in the skyline from there I walked. I wanted to see how close some trolley stops were. You can walk to one trolley stop in like six minutes. Another is like 11 minutes away. It's in the Middletown neighborhood. And proponents have made the case of like there are there are really not a ton of residential homes or businesses right next to it. Although if you walk just a little bit of ways , you can find both of those things. So but this would be a rare thing in the United States , which is a 1000 bed shelter. I made a bunch of calls , try to find every other 1000 bed shelter I could find in the United States. I could track down five that have at least held a thousand people at some point in recent years , and a key difference between a lot of those and this property is size. So the property here , the empty warehouse here in San Diego , is about 65,000ft². Uh , in contrast , there's a campus in Phoenix. They have more than 157,600ft². You've got Union Rescue Mission in LA. They've got a five story structure with 220,000ft². And then you've got a sprawling , nearly two dozen acre campus in San Antonio with about half 1,000,000ft². So the other shelters around the country that are holding a thousand people or more generally have far , far , far more space to work with.
S2: One thing that I think is really important to talk about here , that when we're talking about homelessness or behavioral health , I think doesn't get talked about enough , is it's not just about the facilities , it's about the people who work in them and the supports that you have for people that are coming into these facilities. And I talked to an Oliver , who's actually the author of the city's 2019 homelessness plan , who now leads the National Alliance to End Homelessness. And she said , I'm never not going to have concerns about a thousand bed shelter because you just to have the staffing and the resources there that to meet the need of people there is really challenging and it can be really costly. Um , and I think it's also really important to point out , you know , often as the mayor is talking about this , he's been bringing up the convention center operation , which at one point did have , at its height , about 1300 people staying there. But back to the staffing thing. At that point during the , you know , Covid emergency , there were lots of workers at the city and the county , including librarians , who I heard a lot about during this operation , who were repurposed to work at the convention center and were supporting people. So you literally had librarians who were helping homeless people navigate , you know , benefits and other things. And like I said , I heard a lot of great customer service , um , testimonials about the librarians , but that really helped to make that program a success. And right now , we don't have that same sort of situation where , um , folks could be repurposed. Um , also , there were a lot of additional housing resources that were devoted to helping to get better outcomes for that shelter. And so , you know , yes , the city has , you know , during an emergency , operated a large shelter. But I really don't think that the two situations are as comparable as some would say , because we just can't replicate that Covid emergency shelter today. In the same way we don't have the same resources or emergency abilities.
S1: You would mention that this they're looking at a 30 year lease. There are also costs associated with improvements.
S3:
S1: Over the course of that third year period. Well , at.
S3: That time it was 35 years. So I think it's it's definitely safe to say , especially because now the newest annual operating cost estimate is a little bit lower. We're easily talking hundreds of millions of dollars over the next several decades.
S1:
S2: The mayor asked for memos to be submitted , laying out concerns that they have and suggestions to improve the lease. The city Attorney's office also wanted to firm up some details. And I have to say , you know , during the meeting , it was very clear that it would be very challenging for them to meet the deadline of Tuesday of this week to get all of that stuff done. So I think what's going to be happening next year is that basically the city's negotiators are going to be going back to the bargaining table with Douglas Ham , who's the owner of the warehouse that we've been talking about , um , and trying to see if they can firm up some details , incorporate the feedback from the city council , which was mostly unfavorable on this. And I have checked in with Hamm's team. And what I'm hearing is that he's he's still in it , at least through September. But I do think there's a question of is he going to hang on longer than that ? It was a very difficult meeting for both Ham and the City council. The analogy that I've used is it's kind of like , you know , the the vibe of that meeting was as if a child had just drawn a picture that they thought was great and gave it to somebody , and they threw it on the ground and crumpled it up and said that that sucked. You know , that's really how when you watch the meeting , I think that's how when Ham and city staff left the meeting , they were feeling.
S1: So we've been talking a lot about the big players involved in this the mayor , city council member , city attorney , the owner of the warehouse. But Lisa , you've also spoken with people experiencing homelessness about their perspective on this mega shelter.
S2: There's a lot of concern about , you know , whether that would be safe. There's concern about could illnesses spread , you know , in such a large facility. I'm hearing concerns about people , uh , feeling like it's kind of an institution , you know , a la a prison. And is that really a place they're going to feel comfortable ? Uh , I'm hearing a lot of the concerns that I hear about all sorts of congregate shelters , too , of , you know , when you bring that many people together , somebody and multiple somebodies are going to be having a bad day. That's just how it works. And so you bring all those people together and , you know , is this going to be an environment that people can feel safe in ? You know , I say often , I am not somebody that could go into congregate shelter because I would never sleep. I'm a light sleeper. There's also always going to be somebody who's snoring. You know , it's just when you get a , you know , even just a few dozen people together , I guarantee you you're going to get a loud snore. Um , so there's just a lot of concerns about bringing that many people together. And also , is this going to be a real solution ? Going back to what I was talking about before , in terms of what you need to effectively reduce homelessness and the need to have housing plan tied to this. A lot of people are concerned that like , okay , so if I take a chance and go to the shelter , am I actually going to get housing or is this just , you know , designed to just hide me , you know , basically get me off the street so people don't have to look at me. Um , so I think there are a lot of concerns about this. There are some people that are excited about the prospect of a shelter , but those people tend to be folks who are already in a shelter. Um , really , the top line that I'm hearing from almost everybody is a thousand beds ou in.
S1: Blake , let's talk about the impact on other shelters or safe sleeping sites. You mentioned that it looks like there is going to be a loss of hundreds of shelter beds.
S3: Uh , and in a perfect world , it would also reduce pressure on all of these existing facilities , which are pretty much at capacity , more or less over and over and over. Um , the danger is that something like this could end up pulling money away from other programs that are already serving people right now. Um , yeah. The most recent estimate from city officials is San Diego is going to lose 732 access to 732 shelter beds by January. Uh , there's two footnotes to sort of attach on to that. One is a big chunk of that loss is the Paul Mirabal Center that Father Joe's runs downtown a few blocks east of Petco Park. That is going to stop being a traditional homeless shelter , but it is going to become a detox and sober living facility for homeless residents. So even though it will not technically be within the city's system , it's not like those spots are just disappearing for people that need it. Uh , the other thing is , the 732 number doesn't count a bunch of other facilities and programs that are eventually scheduled to disappear , but we just don't know exactly when they're going to go away. That includes , uh , both designated camping areas , the safe sleeping sites by Balboa Park. Those may be expanded in the next few months , but their permits are temporary. Neither are viewed as as super long term solutions. You've got Alpha Projects tent downtown at 16th and Newton. That land eventually needs to become a new development. But there's there have been some hang ups in the development process , so we don't know when that's disappearing. So there is a lot of there are a lot of moving parts , which again , is what some proponents of the Kettner and Vine shelter keep coming back to is if we had this one big thing that would just sit here for several decades , this would be nicer than than all of these moving parts we've got right now.
S2: So I think one thing that's really crucial to point out when we're thinking about these shelters going offline , is the timeline for Kettner and Vine to open or hope it vine to open. And the latest estimate , which came when they were discussing as a city council whether it approved this was June 2025. So I think we all probably have to consider that since this didn't get voted on , that's probably pushed back by at least a few months now. So it's not as if , you know , one day you're going to close these other shelters and you immediately have this thousand bed shelter. And when these shelters open up , too , they tend to ramp up. So I know the city's initially envisioning maybe they'd open up a hundred beds to start , kind of get a feel for how that's working. Work on hiring more staff. Um , so there's still a big problem that the city has to solve by the end of this year. They really have to figure out what is going to happen to all the people that are now in these existing beds , or saying they're going to find places for them to go , and are they going to be able to replace these sites like one of the other shelters that has to shut down is Golden Hall , um , which is in the city Hall complex. You know , that's , you know , 250 plus beds right now , uh , that are going to be going offline by the end of the year , probably sooner. So there's some push now to to try to come up with a plan , you know , even before Kettner and Vine would open , you know , for where these beds are going to be relocated. And it's unclear that the city's going to be able to deliver new places for people to go.
S1: Let's take a step back and look at some of the impacts of what's happening at a statewide and national level. You have the US Supreme Court recently ruling that camping bans are , in fact , legal. You have Governor Gavin Newsom recently issuing an executive order that urged state agencies to move quickly , move urgently to address encampments on state agency land. But also the order urged local governments to take similar actions to address encampments. So we're talking about all of this complexity with shelter space , but now also there's potentially going to be clearing of encampments.
S3: So my colleagues and I call the bunch of mayors after the US Supreme Court , uh , basically made it easier for cities to clear encampments , that they took away a requirement that you had to be able to offer some sort of shelter if you're going to kick someone off , uh , from sleeping on public property. And so several mayors , uh , including in Escondido and in Chula Vista , have expressed openness at being more aggressive and clearing encampments. We might see proposed camping ban be resurrected in National City , but all of that is still just speculative at this point. There aren't. There isn't. There hasn't been a lot of hard movement except San Marcos passed a camping ban. Yeah , but at this point , my understanding is just a lot of cities are exploring more aggressive enforcement , and that's probably where we'll see changes.
S2: What will be interesting to see is do these cities that are exploring more enforcement also explore more shelter options ? A lot of those that are now starting to talk about this more don't have shelter to directly offer. And I think that , you know , really the Grants Pass decision in my mind is much more impactful than the governor's directive. You know , maybe that just puts a little bit more pressure on and maybe give some folks some , like , political ammunition to go forward with and move forward with something like a camping ban or clear up encampments. But really , it's the Supreme Court decision that even that executive order was based on is now you've got this directive , you know , from , you know , or at least you've gotten a change in terms of what cities have to do in order to proceed with enforcement. They don't necessarily have to have shelter. Now , Mayor Gloria has said again and again that he still thinks it's important to provide shelter. And I know he'd love for me to say on here right now , that , man , maybe this will get other cities to step up on shelter , but that's still to be seen.
S1: Homelessness a huge topic for many San Diegans , many Californians. We could keep this conversation going for a long time , but we'll have to wrap it there. I've been speaking with Blake Nelson , homelessness reporter for the San Diego Union-Tribune. Thanks for joining us , Blake.
S3: Thanks for having. Me.
S1: Me. And Lisa Halberstadt , senior investigative reporter for Voice of San Diego. Thanks , Lisa.
S2: Thanks so much for having me.
S1: When roundtable returns. The San Diego County Board of Supervisors passed a rule to rein in profanity and threats at public meetings , but free speech proponents filed a lawsuit over it.
S4: I think it's a textbook case of how difficult it is to bring some order to these meetings , which have just been filled with a lot of cussing , just a lot of rudeness.
S1: That's just ahead on roundtable. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Scott Rod. Public participation in local government meetings has grown increasingly uncivil in recent years. A KPBS investigation last month analyzed this alarming trend at San Diego County Board of Supervisor meetings. It documented how threats , profanity and racist remarks directed at local leaders are all on the rise in late 2022. The Board of Supervisors passed a new rule meant to curb harassment and discriminatory comments. Now that rule is being challenged in court on First Amendment grounds. Here to talk about this story is KPBS investigative reporter Amita Sharma. Welcome back to roundtable.
S4: It's good to be here , Scott.
S1: So we had you on the show last month to talk about your in-depth investigation that examined incivility at county Board of supervisor meetings. Briefly remind us what you found.
S4: So , Scott , we did a review of public comments from a three month sample spanning certain years , between 2009 and 2023. We paid really close attention to the years following Covid to detect exactly when incivility rose. And sure enough , we found that people became less civil about a year into the pandemic , for example , in 2009 , KPBS found that there were just two incidents of incivility. And then in 2023 , we found that there were 167 such incidents of incivility. And so when we say incivility , we're talking about offensive language. We're talking about making threats. We're talking about making allegations against supervisors without any kind of evidence. We're talking about parroting conspiracies.
S1: Nearly two years ago , right in the heart of what you're talking about in terms of the rise of incivility , the Board of Supervisors decided to impose new rules for public comment at their meetings.
S4: So they cut the time that public commenters could speak. If there were ten or more speakers , and if those comments turned disorderly , the chairperson reserved the right to pause the meeting and possibly have the disruptive person removed. The issue , I believe , is in the details the part of the change in the county's rules that allows the chairperson to reprimand and possibly remove. A disruptive commenter states that basically , that can happen if the chairperson of the board deems those comments discriminatory or harassing.
S1: So it sounds pretty subjective , then it's leaving a lot of discretion up to the chair.
S4: It absolutely is. It's arbitrary.
S1:
S4: But what I can tell you is that that change took effect in November 2022 , and for the three month period we looked at from October of 2022 through December of that year , there were 132 incidents of incivility. And then next year , last year in 2023 , there were 167 incidents. So it seems that not only did incivility not go down , it actually rose very interesting.
S1: And so now that rule is being challenged in court. Who filed this lawsuit in.
S4: Briggs says the problem with the county's rule change on public comments is the way it defines discriminatory or harassing remarks , he says. It just simply doesn't jibe with the First Amendment. The county says discriminatory or harassing statements can include , and I'm quoting directly from their document. Legally protected speech in a board meeting that disparages an individual or group based on their perceived race , religion , sexual orientation , ethnicity , gender , disability , or other hate speech , but does not rise to the level of a criminal threat or inciting violence. And again , the county itself is saying that discriminatory or harassing remarks can include legally protected speech.
S1: Very interesting. Have you heard from any members of the public or folks who go to these meetings in response to the new rules that the Board of Supervisors put in place.
S4: Well , I can tell you that in the course of my reporting for the three part incivility series , the members of the public who have often been called out for being rude , told me that they felt like the Board of Supervisors were trampling on their free speech rights. Interesting.
S1: Interesting. And so you spoke to some experts on civics and free speech.
S4: Neither of them spoke on the lawsuit , per se. They spoke in very broad terms about the challenges that government officials face in trying to restrict offensive comments at public meetings. So Erwin Chemerinsky says , look , government officials can remove a person from a meeting if they're being disruptive , if they are speaking beyond their allotted time or they're yelling over other people who have the floor. He says they cannot impose a civility code. They can't bar people from cussing , and they can't stop people from using racial or ethnic slurs.
S1:
S4: It could. If the case doesn't get settled before then , it could go to trial before the end of this year. Wow.
S1: Wow. And so let's take a step back.
S4: As Chemerinsky said , you get to use racial or ethnic slurs. You even get to swear at your elected officials and you get to make allegations without presenting evidence. The fine line is that you don't get to incite violence and you don't get to make explicit threats. What I can say is that all of the experts I spoke to on incivility uniformly said that elected officials and the public who isn't behaving this way aren't without their own tools. Elected officials can call out the behavior and say , hey , look , we don't agree with what's being said. We don't condone what's being said. We believe that what's being said represents a minority of our community. And the experts also said that the onus is on the public that more people , more members of the public , while it may be unpleasant to attend these meetings , must go to these meetings , and they must speak there in larger numbers. Right.
S1: So that perspective being the answer is more speech , so to speak , to combat the profane , uncivil speech. So as we wrap up here from your perspective , you've been deep in this now for months and reviewing this , talking to experts , listening in on so many public meetings.
S4: You know , what becomes the norm for a while. I think that , you know , there have been other periods in our history where people were a little bit more rude and then things tamped down , as you and I both know , and as we've discussed in the newsroom , we're well aware of what's going on at the national level when it comes to politics. And I think a lot of the language that we hear at the national level seeps in to the local discourse. I think if that ever turns around , this will turn around too. Short of , you know , the public taking matters into his own hands and really attending these meetings in droves and really speaking out , I think if they don't , it might go away on its own.
S1: I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I've been speaking with KPBS investigative reporter Amita Sharma. Thanks for joining us.
S4: Thanks for having me , Scott.
S1: When we come back , we discuss an international prisoner swap , California wildfires and San Diego athletes competing in the Olympics.
S5: Beyond skating , you know , there's a couple surfers to Katie Zimmer. She's from Oceanside also participating. But on the other side of the world in French Polynesia. So it's cool to see that skating surfing connection , which San Diego is so well known for.
S1: That's next on Round Table. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Scott Rod. It's time for our weekly roundup , where we discuss some stories , big and small , that caught our attention this week. Joining me is Jacob Air , reporter and producer at KPBS.
S5: Hey , Jacob.
S1: Hey , Scott. All right , so start us off. What have you been reading and watching this.
S5: Week in terms of watching ? Like most people , the Olympics is what I've been focused on , Especially because we have a lot of different athletes from here in San Diego County who are participating. Absolutely. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , we have a Jagger Eaton. He won silver in the skateboarding park event. So he was born in Arizona , but he's been living in Encinitas now , I think for something like 5 or 6 years. He's well-known in the San Diego skateboarding scene. I don't know if you caught any of the parks skateboarding , but I mean , it's incredible what these guys are doing.
S5: Oh yeah , it's amazing. And beyond just Jagger , there were a ton of athletes who are participating both on the men's and women's for skateboarding that , you know , have ties to San Diego County. We earlier on KPBS Midday Edition actually had one of them on. It was just it's so cool to see how action sports really in San Diego County have these really deep ties. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , actually I was able to meet the skateboarding team , the men's and the women's , uh , a few weeks ago. I sort of strong armed my way into this story. Another reporter here was also covering it. I was able to go out and join him , and it was awesome to meet them. I mean , they were all so psyched to be going to Paris. A lot of , uh , a lot of younger skateboarders , you know , some especially on the women's side in their teens , which is like incredible to see , but then also some , some older sort of older states , folks of the skateboarding scene as well , like Nyjah Huston. Um , so it was really cool to see that. And on the men's and women's side , the level of technical ability is just incredible. I don't know if you skateboarded growing up , I did I played Tony Hawk , pro skateboarder all the time. Some of the stuff they're doing now is stuff that like , I figured you could only do in a video game.
S5: It's beyond that , honestly. Some of it , some of the different rides or tricks that they're doing weren't even possible in video games ten , 15 years ago. It's that good. And we were actually able to talk to one of the skaters , Bryce Whetstone. She was fantastic to talk to and just listen to that conversation. But beyond skating , you know , there's a couple surfers to Katie Zimmer. She's from Oceanside also participating. But on the other side of the world in French Polynesia. So it's cool to see that skating surfing connection , which San Diego is so well known for. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely. And the wave topped out in French Polynesia. It's really picked up on some of these days. I mean , you're seeing some , some sets that are coming in at ten , 12ft. And it's like staggering to see them go up against this wave , you know , gliding above a foot or two of water above a dry reef. It's like just mind boggling. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. And , you know , outside of the typical skating and surfing , there are other athletes here from San Diego , Kelsey Plum from Poway. She's currently going for her second gold with the US women's basketball team. That's something to watch. I mean , she's a big name in the basketball world as a whole outside of the Olympics. And like I said , you know , outside of skating and surfing , there's just a ton of different athletes. There was even a rower that we talked to previously on KPBS. Tons to tune into. Absolutely.
S1:
S5:
S1: It's been incredible seeing her. I mean , again , similar to like the technical ability on the skateboarding side , seeing what the gymnasts are doing is just mind boggling. All right. We could talk about Olympics all day , but let's switch gears. This story , you know , was a sigh of relief , I think for everyone in the US , but also especially in the journalism world. Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gursky was released from a Russian prison. He was imprisoned for 16 months under , you know , as the US is saying , and he has adamantly put forward as false false allegation that he was working on behalf of the government. I mean , he is a reporter for the Wall Street Journal. This was part of a massive prisoner swap involving seven seven different countries , 24 different prisoners. The complicated nature behind it's kind of wild , but Evans is really the name that many people have been focused on.
S5: It's scary. I mean , thinking about the fact that , you know , working in the media industry , seeing this happening for just terrifying , but , you know , thinking about freedom of press around the world concerning , to say the least.
S1: Oh , absolutely. I mean , Russia is known as a country where there are not friendly laws as it relates to press freedom. But something like this hasn't happened in in a long time in terms of clamping down , imprisoning a reporter who's just out there working for a major news outlet , just doing their job. You know , I read some of the specifics of how Dershowitz passed the time while in this pretty infamous Russian prison. He read War and Peace. He was playing chess , move by move with his father through the mail. Each time they exchanged a letter , they would move a piece. And it just seems like he had such fortitude to get through this imprisonment. Um , just really so happy to see that this reporter has been released and is now back home.
S5: Outside of , you know , the terrifying ordeal there. There is some local stuff here in the state that's also concerning thinking about what's happening on the environmental side. The park fire up in the northern part of the state. This is on the verge of becoming the fourth largest fire now in California history. And we even have some local fire departments going up there to help out. Yeah , I.
S1: Believe Chula Vista sent some firefighters. This is a massive blaze. You have 6000 personnel that are that are fighting this thing. It's in an area that has , uh , parts of this area in Butte County and Tama County have burned before. It's not far from where the Camp Fire destroyed most of the town of Paradise and killed more than 80 people in just this , the speed at which this thing took off and has expanded , as you said , to one of the biggest in state history , is terrifying. And it reflects , you know , the state of extreme heat in the state right now , the dry vegetation and gives a lot of people concern about what may come , you know , in the rest of this fire season. We're only now just in August. And a lot of times the biggest fires don't happen until later in the summer and even into the fall.
S5: Oh , exactly. That's what I was going to say. I mean , this is early August. We have another two ish months , maybe a little bit more fires , three months , three months. So , you know , hopefully that this is the worst of what we're going to see this year. But , uh , even here locally , just outside of San Diego , the Nixon fire was kind of dotting the county line. It was around 5000 acres. Um , so we'll see if , you know , there's going to be a larger statewide impact beyond just the , uh , Park Fire , and then maybe there'll be potentially more impactful fires here locally.
S1: We'll see. I mean , fingers crossed that it doesn't happen. Uh , but we've had we've been having extreme heat here in San Diego County , in the East County over into Imperial. So hopefully we don't see fires that are that ferocious spark around here. Okay.
S5: For the first time in six months , San Diego is no longer the number one metro with the fastest growing home prices , which is , I think , a good thing. Um , now that's New York. Like I was saying , San Diego had that mark for six months , but the pace of home growth is starting to slow down for most markets. And that does include San Diego.
S1: Yeah , but we are still number two.
S5:
S1: So not a whole lot of relief for folks. Um , you know what ? The median resale for a single family home in San Diego , in the metro area was like $1 million in May. Right ? So it's still I mean , if you're talking about , you know , folks trying to get into the housing market for the first time , man , is that possible ? Yeah , I , I sort of am speaking from personal experience here as someone who would like to in the near term horizon , you know , get a get a home after getting married. Uh , it's a daunting prospect , right ? Yeah.
S5: And it can feel almost impossible at points , but I think silver lining , we're no longer at the top. We'll see of what happens in coming months.
S1: Yeah , we will see. So sticking with real estate popping over to New York City , there was there's this office building that was up for sale , uh , back in 2006 , this , you know , large office building sold for over $300 million. It just sold again.
S5:
S1: It's a big office building in midtown Manhattan.
S5: I would say hundreds of millions. Something like that.
S1: Less than $9 million. Wow. So the reason is this building is mostly empty now because it's just , you know , office tenants in New York , but also in cities around the country are just , you know , emptying out of these buildings. And , you know , commercial real estate has really taken a hit following the pandemic. More and more workers are working from home or working hybrid remote , and you just have these office tenants that are clearing out of these buildings. And so , you know , it's stunning to see. I think this is maybe somewhat of an outlier , maybe of just how dramatic of a price reduction , Uh , you know , this building sold for. But the the trend is happening in cities across the country.
S5: Right in in San Diego here , there's there are empty buildings downtown. We'll see. You know , if this is a larger issue that plays out locally here just with , you know , you have a housing crisis and then you have these empty buildings downtown. It does kind of present this weird juxtaposition. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely. And I think there's a lot of hand-wringing over what are we going to do with this space ? How are we going to activate the downtown area here in San Diego , but elsewhere as well ? If you don't have workers there , if some of these office buildings are empty or partially empty , what are we going to do with them ? What's the what's an alternative ? I think there are a lot of people scratching their head trying to come up with creative solutions. All right. That's all the time we have. Jacob Air , thanks for joining us on the roundup.
S5: Thanks so much , Scott.
S1: That's our show for today. You can listen to KPBS roundtable anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays and again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any thoughts on today's show or ideas for a future one , you can email us at roundtable at pbs.org. You can also leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers this week were Brendan Trufant and Ben Read Lusk. This show was produced by Jacob Ayer. Brooke Ruth is Roundtable's senior producer and I'm Scott Rodd. Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend.
