S1: Welcome to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. San Diego's food offerings are becoming one of the main reasons tourists come to the city. And it has locals buzzing , too.
S2: That is something that is also really starting to define. The San Diego cuisine is that people are demanding fresh , sustainable , local , high quality stuff of all price points in every corner of the county.
S1: Then we look at what's happening in the region's drink scene everything from beer to wine , cocktails to mocktails. We hear about the latest drink trends in some places to try. Plus , a few big events are set to hit San Diego later this month. We hear all about it in the roundup. That's all ahead on KPBS roundtable. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think about the San Diego Tijuana region ? Is it the weather ? Maybe the beaches ? Possibly beer ? Well , according to the San Diego Tourism Agency , food is a growing reason tourists are visiting the region and tripadvisor's Travelers Choice Awards , recently named San Diego the number ten food destination in the United States. We wanted to delve into the food and drink scene here in the region , and here to help us do that are Beth Damon. She is a freelance journalist and food news writer for San Diego Magazine. And Jackie Bryant also joins us. She's a content strategist at San Diego Magazine as well , who also just focuses on all things edible. So welcome to roundtable to you both. Jackie , I'll start with you. This month marks the 100th birthday for the Caesar salad. And it all started in a Tijuana hotel. Can you tell us more about the origin of what you write ? Is the world's most famous salad. Absolutely.
S3: Absolutely. So , Caesar's restaurant in 1924. Caesar Cardenal was an Italian immigrant who opened this restaurant. It was intended to serve a variety of types of people crossing the border to enjoy the more. Well , depending on your perspective , savory or unsavory aspects of Tijuana during prohibition , it was , you know , as we know , it was a destination for Americans coming south to get the things that can't get back in the United States. Um , so he had a whole bunch of guests one night , didn't know what to do. Got flustered. And as the legend has it , and it's been it's been checked over the years by some people. We have a lot of firsthand accounts , uh , to verify this. He just threw a whole bunch of stuff together. Anchovies , eggs , parmesan cheese through it with some romaine lettuce , tossed it with some croutons. And there you have it , the Caesar salad.
S1: And , I mean , you mentioned there anchovies. Like , how much has it changed ? We don't see it so much with the anchovies these days. But by and large , is is the Caesar salad we're seeing today.
S3: I think if you were to look at the ingredient list of most restaurants around town , especially any restaurant that's decently expensive , I would say almost 100%. They've got anchovies in the dressing. They probably just chop it up and you don't even realize it. But that's where some of that tang and that salt actually comes from. So truthfully , a lot of places still have that in the mix. You just don't know it. So it's very close to the original. The only difference is that I know in the 90s , at some point it got out. Someone took a picture of a of a green Kraft Parmesan bottle at the in the back of the kitchen or on the cart at Caesar's. Got out , kind of caused a little bit of a stir. And since then and since the Placentia family bought the the the restaurant in 2012 , they've been using imported Parmigiano-Reggiano from Italy.
S1: And again , so yeah , the the restaurant where this began , it's still around today then. Absolutely.
S3: Absolutely. It's still kicking. So as I mentioned , the Placentia family , which includes Javier , Placentia , his brothers and a whole bunch of their family members , he's a he's a famous binational chef who only has restaurants in Mexico these days. But he has had them in San Diego. His family , the group of Placentia , bought a Caesars in 2012 , and they've kept it pretty much the same. Maybe , you know , increase the quality of the ingredients , maybe pared down the menu a little bit , but by and large , it's a very Eurocentric restaurant that that harkens back to the heyday of Tijuana. Fun.
S1: So now , you know , zooming out a bit more and kind of coming back to today with that kind of history lesson , that's pretty cool. You know , with the Caesar salad there , the San Diego Tourism Authority , you know , it says the food and drink scene is now growing reason driving tourism in the region.
S3: So I moved here ten years ago , and the food scene was a very different place. I remember our boss , Troy Johnson , who's one of the owners of the magazine and the Food Network star. He had just written his first article , I believe it was in 2014 about the food scene in Baja and the Vida Guadalupe and everything happening in Tijuana since then. And , you know , that's when I entered the food and travel writing scene here , too. I was also one of the first writers to write about the Vida Guadalupe as a mature wine region on a national stage , outside of local publications. And , you know , for a long time I dined out on the phrase , you know , on the phrase they make wine in Mexico. It still is a punchline to so many people outside of our region. So I think just growing awareness of the incredible natural bounty we have here , our fisheries , the fact that we have the most small farms in the nation per capita. And those are all ornamental plants like avocados and specialty fruits , vegetables and other things like that. I think just our natural bounty , the fact that we're already a vacation destination and you can eat well here , and there's another country with a vibrant food culture , you know , 17 miles away. I think all of those things combine to have a very rich food scene. And the truth is , is that it just wasn't looked at nationally or internationally outside of Mexico until recently.
S1: That's interesting.
S3: It was just kind of a different vibe. And yeah , the vibe really just brought a whole new paradigm. It introduced the concept of Baja Med , which , you know , is sort of a nod to our Mediterranean climate and style of ingredients , but also making sure that we recognize , you know , the unique biodiversity that we have here that shows up on our plates that sparked it off. It also flowed into Tijuana. There were a number of fine dining restaurants , some of which closed during Covid , many of which are still here today. That that just started catching attention at the same time that Mexico and mainland Mexico in general was catching attention on the national stage. This year you have the first Michelin awards for Mexico that flows in into Baja California , which flows into our food scene. So there's a lot of symbiosis there. And then also our own chefs have have gotten attention on the national stage. I mentioned Javier Plasencia , I believe it was 2015 or 16. Bracero , his restaurant at the time with Claudette Zapata , was nominated for best restaurant in California. He didn't win , but that was a huge deal of first for us. And then this year we had Tara Massoud from anime , who was nominated for Best chef. California also didn't win , but that was a massive deal to be recognized on that stage , so I think , yeah , all of those things come together , but it flows out of the valley. But oh , and of course , sorry , one more thing. How could I not mention Roberto Alcazar , who has his restaurant valet in Oceanside that has a one Michelin star , and his first restaurant , Malva in La Vida Guadalupe , which was one of my all time favorites and is very similar in style , you know , that that really paved the way. It was just easier for him to duplicate it on this side of the border. And it's catching attention.
S1: And Beth , you know , there Jackie mentioned the restaurant Valley , which is in Oceanside.
S2: I mean , it really started to give people kind of the freedom to experiment , to try things and say , life is short , let's try something out. I've had a dream to have a restaurant. I've had a dream to have a pop up or a food truck or whatever it is. And I think people really started to experiment and find their voices in the cuisine over the past few years. You know , like Jackie mentioned , neither of us are San Diego natives , but I moved here 16 years ago , lived in North Park. And , I mean , it was really nothing to write home about at the time. And it's and now look at where it is today. And so I think that there was definitely an influence of people feeling freedom and also , you know , not wanting to live under the shadow of. Of Los Angeles food scenes anymore. I mean , it was for a long time San Diego was considered fish tacos and surfing. Fantastic. That's great. We have wonderful elements of both. But there were there's always been exactly like what Jackie mentioned is that the we've got more small farms , tons of seasonal year round produce and amazing seafood access to some of the best food ingredients in the entire country. And it was only really a matter of time and people until people started utilizing it , and b consumers started noticing it on a wide scale. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. If I could make an additional point to that ingenuity that came out during Covid. Tara monsoon is one example. She became very well known for her shrimp toast , which she was cooking in her kitchen on Facebook Marketplace. That's what got her the attention of the owners of the Puffer Malarkey collective of anime. And that's why they brought her on to be the chef. And then you also have Warung Riri , which is a fine dining restaurant in the backyard of a Claremont Mesa home. And the couple the wife is the chef. She's Indonesian. Her husband , Dave Sims , he is. He's kind of the business brain and the server and runs the front and back of house that started during Covid because of the Mayko laws. Because of those. The law from the city that allowed home cooks to be able to create restaurants of a certain size legally in their own yards. So that was 100% a Covid invention and something that could have only come out at that time.
S1: You both mentioned , um , Chef Tara masood of anime. She was the finalist for the James Beard Award earlier this year , was the the first San Diego chef to , you know , to get that honor.
S2: And the first is bringing a real awareness of Filipino cuisine. She's certainly certainly not alone in that in those efforts , I know Chef Phillip Esteban threw white rice through the the upcoming Wildflower Deli in coming to Liberty Station. They are both integral pieces of bringing that that cuisine to San Diego and really elevating it to a national stage. I think it's something that we're seeing across the United States , and it's really I think San Diego is probably one of the best places to kind of witness firsthand that that transformation. That being said , she is also she just opened Le Coq in La Jolla. And La Jolla is a really interesting place that I'm sort of keeping an eye on in terms of the culinary scene , because for a long time it was that stodgy , white tablecloth , French kind of old ambience where you're paying a premium for really dusty old food. I mean , it wasn't interesting and it wasn't very innovative for a long time. And I think that that area in particular is really starting to change. You know , you've bird Rock coffee there. They're fantastic. They've been there for a long time. And with Le Coq , I think that that is a huge step forward for that particular area. And I think that she being a part of that and bringing really a place where I think that the the cuisine and the innovation and the menu and the ingredients and the execution of service is going to be worth the price tag that La Jolla is used to paying. But I don't think they've seen that quality. I think that's really going to shape that area in a way that is long overdue.
S1: And Jackie , on that , you know , Beth was mentioning La Jolla there. But there's also we were just talking about Valley in Oceanside , for example. I mean , what does this tell you about where the food scene is headed ? It seems to be , you know , extending far beyond the usual places we think of. Right ? Like Little Italy or North Park. Right. Is that is that kind of like a trend ? That's where you're seeing. Oh , yeah.
S3: I mean , the San Diego Magazine dedicated a whole issue to South Bay , our February issue this year. And if you look in it , there's a whole lot of chefs and food makers of various types in there. So that's one place that's obviously kicking. And then you've got Encinitas with a whole bunch of new openings , and you've got the new chef at Urban Sea , which is probably one of the most exciting places to eat in San Diego County right now. La Jolla , like Beth said , is absolutely kicking. You've got Morrissey with its new beverage director , Bo Dubois , and and and its excellent sommelier , Christopher Playa. And they just got recognized by Wine Spectator for being an outstanding wine program. You've got Rosé by Paul Basil and his wife Jules Wilson coming in. Um , there's a new , uh , this isn't fine dining , but there's a new Mexican Japanese breakfast restaurant coming catty cornered from Puesto and Mauricio as well. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff there. And I also don't. Would be remiss if I didn't mention the OGs of La Hoya. You've got Georges at The Cove , which is doing better than ever , and they're bringing in an incredible lineup of guest chefs all throughout the summer and fall. People who have been in their kitchen before and gone on to pretty incredible product projects around the world. So that's one thing that's happening. And then you always have 910 , which is one of the old fine dining mainstays of La Jolla. But Jason NIB is one of the most creative , incredible chefs in San Diego. They've got one of the best wine lists , also got a nod on that Wine Spectator award , and that that is still as exciting as ever. So I can't believe I'm saying this , but LA is kind of the place to be right now. But what it does say about our food scene , because Coronado is also exploding with new openings right now. It says that honestly , the food is moving towards the money. I mean , these are the people who can afford it , and these are beautiful Oceanside locations that historically haven't really had good food.
S1:
S3: But truthfully , the residents didn't care because again , there wasn't as sophisticated of a food culture in San Diego here always. Like there have been in other cities. So I kind of feel like that money and that taste sophistication are actually finally coming to meet at a level. And that's why you're finally seeing better food in these rich coastal towns.
S2: But I do want to add that it's not just expensive restaurants that are coming online , although there are certainly a number of those happening all across all across the county. I think that what I would say is no place is safe. People , it's so true. People in every corner of San Diego County are starting to realize and demand and patronize places that may or may not , depending on the number of dollar signs you know , next to the name on on TripAdvisor or whatever it is. I mean , there are plenty of innovative , great places that are hole in the wall that are , you know , ten bucks a plate , something like that. And I think that that is something that is also really starting to define the San Diego cuisine is that people are demanding fresh , sustainable , local , high quality stuff of all price points in every corner of the county.
S1: Well , one interesting point. I think , Jackie , you mentioned you referred to , you know , the tourism and how that plays a role here. I mean , how does this relationship between tourism and locals and what a restaurant caters to ? Right. I think some of these restaurants we might think of more as kind of like tourist traps or whatever.
S3: The gas weapon is a really good example of how that's playing out right now , because you have a I mean , sometimes I can't even count the churn of , of , you know , Mexican cantina style bars that open and close there that are clearly geared towards visiting military conference people , tourists , etc. but then you've got Pally Hotel with Saint James French Diner , which is an excellent restaurant , and they've got a new rooftop bar. You've got other boutique hotels opening downtown , which signals to me that the owners of those of those highly capitalized change see some value in putting a high taste operation in downtown San Diego , which is obviously struggling right now and has historically been kind of given over to tourists who San Diegans think don't know any better. And , you know , they they're often right to be perfectly honest. And so there is something happening in downtown. There is some there's clearly a push to get locals back. Clearly somebody is showing them numbers or convincing them that there is local interest to come to some of these places , but it is also targeting a higher end tourist as well. A wealthier tourist don't stay at the beach , stay in downtown San Diego because look at the city we've got down here. So there you can really see that playing out in real time right now. And I think a good example of that is Protector Brewery , which just opened at the waterfront. The owner , Sean Hagerty , is an ex-Navy Seal and it's an organic , sustainable brewer brewery. And actually the brew is really good , right , Beth ? We like the beer. Yeah , okay.
S2: They're in the Intercontinental San Diego , and this is their second location. He's been working on it for , you know , some the upwards of ten years or something like that. But it's he and his wife and their brews are very solid. And the fact that they decided to make their second location in a hotel in smack in the middle of downtown San Diego , I think really does show that people want to go. Businesses want to go where the people are , and we have a year round tourist season. It's not just right now in the summertime , it's it's 24 over seven , 365. And if that's where the people are and if that's what it takes for you to reach them and make your business viable , because the economics today are difficult and places are not. Opening five , six , seven Taprooms in the same way that they were a few years ago , they might not be opening at all. They might be retracting. You know , we saw the iconic lost Abbey really start to pull back on their operations and downsize. And that was before they you know , that was a smart move in terms of not closing. And so I think that investing in downtown and where the people are is definitely something that we're going to be keeping an eye on and seeing a little bit more of in the future.
S3: And to that point , Haggerty told me , because I visited him at his new spot is called the Hyde Site. Um , which , you know , which is a military term. And I asked him who he expected to come here , and he said , obviously , Taurus , they are catty cornered with the midway part of the reason he went in that location. They also have a partnership with the incoming Navy Seal Museum , which is coming from Florida , right around the corner. But he said , you know , we have a cult , local following. People love us. We're doing well. We know that San Diegans are down here to kind of figuring out their new waterfronts. So he he expects and has said he's already seen a lot of local interest. So again , it's it's it's both. And I think San Diegans want more access to their downtown to. And so they're starting to figure out ways to make that a reality.
S1: I want to move now on to more about the food itself and what kinds of new types of food we're seeing take hold. Earlier , we talked about Chef Tara Massoud from anime and now The Cook. And here is a clip of of a story KPBS did this spring after she was announced as a James Beard finalist.
S4: Is a very Filipino dish. That was one of the first Filipino items I put on the menu. And the reason it's a big deal is because you don't see Filipino food like this in a setting like this very often.
S1: So there obviously , you know , her Filipino heritage is a driving force behind her cuisine and how she approaches it.
S2: I mean , we look at Little Saigon in City Heights. We look at obviously the convoy district with its hundreds of of , you know , flavors and restaurants from around Asia. We've got Japanese food , we've got Chinese food , not just Chinese food , we've got regional , we've got Cantonese , we've got Sichuan food. It's it's all over the place. And now we're really starting to see other chefs dipping into that. I mean , the , the duo who was behind the 24 Suns pop up. You know , they're launching up in Oceanside an entirely new concept. And I think that that is always going to be a huge part of the local San Diego scene , not only because , you know , we're on the other side of the Pacific , of that of that continent , but that's something that I see people really starting to play with and respect as an elevated cuisine. It's the same thing as Mexican food. Sure , you can have the taco shops. You can have , you know , the the easy grab and go and what people perceive as a cheap food. But we also see a lot of people investing time , money , energy and concepts behind , you know , by looking at something like that. I mean , that is Mexican food. 2.0 so I think that people are looking beyond the typical California cuisine , which is great and certainly has a place , but is looking to implement a lot more global flavors. And I think that there's a lot of places doing it well. I mean , projects is going to be opening Lala , which is , you know , that's going to be in the heart of North Park. That's what is that , Lebanese Mediterranean.
S3: Know if I may yarn on this for a second. This is actually pretty revolutionary. And I talked to arsalan , uh , to Faisal , the , uh , who owns projects about this specifically. So he's obviously open a number of restaurants , bars and hotels around San Diego , only in San Diego. But he is Iranian , and Layla is the first Middle Eastern concept that he'll be doing and he's going to feature dishes. You know , some of he's also lived in Iran with his family when he was a teenager , knows how to cook Iranian food. They're going to have , you know , forgive my pronunciation of today on the menu. That's that's his own family's recipe. But he also decided to feature dishes from most or every diasporic Middle Eastern community in San Diego and El Cajon in the wider region. I looked around , I asked him if anyone had ever done this. Has anyone done this in New York or Detroit , for example , where there are a lot of these communities ? He said. Not that he's aware of. I tried to find one. I couldn't really find one. So truthfully , this is a really revolutionary concept at an interesting point in our political history. And so I'm extremely excited for it. I actually don't think anywhere in the United States has tried a pan Middle Eastern restaurant before , and I think it's really cool that we get that superlative personally.
S2: And to open it in the , you know , the center of 30th Street and the heart of North Park , which is arguably just one of the most explosive food neighborhoods in the entire country , that I think makes a really big statement and doesn't they don't really go half on anything. I mean , I don't I don't know what the price tag on Layla is going to be , but I think we can safely bet that it's going to be , uh , every detail will be pored over in the same way that his other projects have been.
S1: When roundtable returns from food , we turn our attention to drinks in the San Diego Tijuana region , and it goes beyond just beer.
S3: We've got finally really good wine list here , and you can walk in , you know , you can't swing a cat in San Diego without hitting an amazing cocktail bar at this point , which was just not true ten years ago.
S1: That's ahead on Round Table. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. We're talking about San Diego's blossoming food and drink scene today with journalists Beth Demmon and Jackie Bryant of San Diego Magazine. So , Beth , aside from food , obviously San Diego is well known for its craft beer scene.
S2: I mean , we're known as the capital of craft , and that is a name that the San Diego Brewers Guild sort of started calling the San Diego County craft beer scene a few years ago , and I think that for a long time , that was a very legitimate name and moniker that we gave ourselves. I would say that we are no different than any other craft beer area in the United States , other than the fact that we may be a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of styles and things like that. And we certainly have a huge number of breweries per capita. They are certainly not opening at the rate they were five , six , ten years ago. But they're holding on , and I still think that openings are outpacing closings. We do have a few new breweries online. Sonny Grove Brewing just opened in Santee. They had been working for a long time to open in Lemon Grove , and eventually had to move to that different East County city. But that's , you know , a fabulous new addition. We've got protector Downtown. North North Park Beer Company just opened up a pizza shop in Crown Point. I mean , there are certainly places that are expanding and investing strategically , but I think that's the key word is strategic. It's not this explosive just skyrocket to the moon where anything goes anymore. People are pulling back a little bit. They're being a little bit more cautious with their dollars and their investments. But it's the the San Diego craft beer scene is certainly not going away. It's certainly not dying. And I wouldn't say that it's thriving , but it's it's keep on keeping on for sure.
S1: And Jackie , I mean , it's more than just beer , right ? There's other things happening in the drink space here in San Diego.
S3: Obviously the Baja influence is part of that. We have wineries here in San Diego County as well. Basically , they're in the great natural wine explosion pre-COVID of like the 2017 to 2019 area era , where more organic , biodynamic , quote unquote natural processes came into the wine movement , it became very trendy. And that's continued. People like drinking that way. The Rose and Vino Carta , or Close Wine Shop are three examples of bars that that have exclusively bottles of that type on their list. So I think it's I think this year is not Diego's seventh year. The all the people from those shops banded together to start a natural wine festival , which has become really big in the wine world. Pally Wine Company , which was a local urban winery , teamed up with the folks at Cellar Hand to Open Cellar Hand , a new restaurant in Hillcrest that has proprietary wines made with grapes from around California , and also San Diego County on that list. And then , of course , we just had that big Wine Spectator award. Which award were awarded ? Morrisey , I believe , with the top prize. And then there's a whole bunch of other San Diego restaurants on that list. And I can tell you , I knew those wine lists five , six years ago. And they were all , you know , dusty Napa cabs , which , of course , there's amazing Napa Cabernet. We love an expensive Screaming Eagle. I know , I know , but there's so much more wine out there and we're finally getting it here. And people are demanding more. You know , it tracks with the trends in in food media as well , but we're slowly coming into our own. And then cocktails is a whole other thing. I've been covering the cocktail scene in San Diego probably since 2016. I used to have my own monthly tracker article for it , and we're we're becoming easily one of the best cocktail cities in the country. We have Eric Castro , who is partially at C.H. but also , you know , just bought Gilly's cocktails across the street from the Lafayette , not affiliated with C.H. , but they're putting craft cocktails in a dive bar , and it's packed every single night. You've got the fern side guys opening Happy medium on 30th Street. Same kind of deal. Also packed out every other day and they have really good food. So we've been a cocktail town. Truthfully , we've been since before Covid. It's still going I think it gave an opportunity. You know , I think craft beer was in addition to the view to Guadeloupe to back up on an earlier conversation , is one of the things that expanded San Diego's palates , or conception of how they could enjoy food and drink and how different it could be. And I think it ushered in a wider food movement that turned also into cocktails and wine. And here we are with the , like , high quality , full spectrum , you know , full food and drink scene. So I think we can credit beer with that too , actually. But yeah , we've got finally really good wine list here. And you can walk in , you know , you can't swing a cat in San Diego without hitting an amazing cocktail bar at this point , which was just not true ten years ago.
S2: And just to jump off of that , you know , you mentioned cocktail bars , but restaurants themselves are really starting to elevate not just their cocktail list , but their mocktail lists. And I think we can get into that in a second. But I mean , you mentioned Beau Dubois earlier and he's going to be opening Roma Norte as part of the puesto group. He's going to be opening that down at the headquarters in Seaport Village. And that is going to be very influenced by the Mexico City cocktail scene , which is one of the best , if not the best , cocktail cities in the entire world. And I think that bringing those sort of influences to the San Diego cocktail scene is going to really put the onus on restaurants , which they've already started to , to respond to this as they're bringing the the lauded bartenders from the bars into the in-house restaurants to really start pioneering these , these restaurant cocktail lists and cocktail programs. And I think that we're going to be seeing a lot more of that. I mean , I had one of the best cocktails of my life , the sesame soiree at kingfisher the other day. And and that's and that's a restaurant , you know , like , I'm not going to Sycamore Den anymore. As a 39 year old , I'm probably going out to to dinner , you know , where the food comes first and the drinks come second. Part of that is just personal preference. Part of that is age. But I also think part of that is the evolution of the cocktail scene , as well as a growing demand for non-alcoholic options around San Diego. I mean , we've got Athletic Brewing , which is the , I believe , 10th or 12th largest craft brewery in the country , not non-alcoholic craft brewery , craft brewery. I mean , they've got there , they're from Connecticut , but they've invested heavily locally to make sure that they're on both coasts. And I mean , we're looking at some good news is going to be the first sober speakeasy opening in Hillcrest sometime this year. And I think that they are going to be I think that they're going to be the first completely non-alcoholic bar in the county of San Diego. And I think that that is exactly a bellwether of the future. And I think that having that diversity of options is something that people are continuously demanding , not just in their food , but their drinks as well. And that's something that we're going to be seeing a lot more in the future.
S1: You mentioned this trend toward more non-alcoholic options , but having like , you know , really valuable drinks. And I think for anybody that maybe has stopped drinking for whatever reason for health , you know , um , to have sort of a sophisticated , you know , to feed that sort of like thirst sometimes it can be just dominated by alcohol.
S3: If I'm not , I don't actually really drink much alcohol anymore. And I haven't for four years now. I'm personally very into cannabis. I think there's a lot of people like me. I think legalization of cannabis is definitely part of it. But also , yeah , if I'm not drinking , I still want it to taste good. So I still want a delicious drink. I just don't want it to have alcohol in it. It does create additional creative challenges or opportunities , if you will , for bartenders , because they're missing a key ingredient that they either have to work with or cover up or what have you. So it just allows them to alchemy in a way that's just different and new and fresh. And I personally love it. I actually do spend money on mocktails. I know that there are people out there who denigrated and who say , you know , why would I spend money on that if it doesn't have , you know , a $10 drink or a $12 drink if it doesn't have alcohol. But actually the alcohol , if you know about restaurant margins is the cheapest part of that drink. They're basically get it for free. You're paying for the fresh ingredients in that drink , so feel free to order non-alcoholic drinks with expensive impunity. You will be justified.
S1: You know , you talked a little bit about how some of the ways restaurants and bars are changing bars , kind of moving into restaurants. I've heard hotels come up a lot. Jackie , you were talking about on a recent podcast of yours , the Omni Hotel , and , you know , new restaurants there.
S2: I mean , I think that there's a lot more of the the fast casual , um , really customization options , things like that counter service , absolutely anything that will help minimize food and labor costs while kind of getting the most bang for the consumer's buck. I think we've seen a huge proliferation of , yeah , more of that casual stuff where it's still , you know , even I'll mention cava that's not , you know , that's it's a chain. But they're they're local. And I think that they have really sort of taken that Chipotle ideology and made it into something that is fresh , fast casual , affordable. And it's not something that , you know , it's a little bit better than McDonald's or something like that. And so as far as the way that other people that that other things have changed , I mean , I think tipping culture has really changed and that could be an episode in itself. But , you know , people are being really selective with where they go , how much they spend. And I think that we are seeing a little bit of a wider divide between those affordable options for the average consumer and that really high end experience where people may not be getting that extra drink or may not be eating that appetizer or dessert or something like that , because your dollar really isn't going as far as it used to anymore. And people want to make sure that when they are going out , they're having a good experience.
S3: I also , yeah , I got to talk about hotels. It's it's a trend that has taken over other American cities. We're a little late to it. Not that we didn't have hotels here , but they were they they aren't typically in areas that San Diegans go to a lot or have access to a lot , unless they're specifically going there. And so it hasn't been part of the fabric of the city as much as other urban hotels are. But in other cities , hotels have become gastronomic centers. They all have multiple restaurants , world famous restaurants. Often hotels are the entities that are financially able to shoulder these kinds of bids for these , for these , you know , hyped up restaurants. And so now the same has finally come here. And so again , you have these hotels like the Omni opening downtown. I just mentioned Palley Hotel. C.H. is a restaurant company , but now they they just opened the Lafayette. They will be opening another one in Coronado next year that will also have several restaurants. And we all know how many are in the Lafayette. Like , I can't even count anymore.
S2: Yeah , 17 I don't even. And a bowling alley. Exactly.
S3: Exactly. At least 25. And so but that's a trend. And so again , like hotels can absorb these property costs , but they also know that they can't just make money off of tourism. Covid is a thing. You just can't bank on crowds and in person anymore. And you also have to bank on local. I think we've all learned a little bit of a lesson that we have to stay local a little bit more in some respects in our commerce to to keep things healthy. So they want to make sure that these hotel spaces are also for locals.
S2: Oh , sure. I mean , I go to brunch at Arlo at the Town and Country on the regular and it's I mean , I've stayed at the town and country , but that's a staycation. And so I think you're you're exactly right. Like hitting the nail on the head , like getting people to who live here to come to these spaces for , for a 360 degree experience. Like people don't just want to go out , have a meal and go home anymore. Like there needs to be some sort of other value add. And I think that's exactly what we're sort of describing here. And I think what we're going to be seeing a lot more of in the future.
S1: So on that sort of locals connection here before I let you go , I mean , you've mentioned some of your spots , but I'd love to hear about , you know , a couple of your favorite , you know , go tos right now.
S5: Oh , no. Yeah. Beth , do.
S1: You want to go first and then Jack , I'll throw it to you. Sure.
S3: We probably have a really similar list , but you go and I'll. I'll try to differentiate it.
S2: Oh , I mean , there's a million places , like if I'm getting pizza , I like going downtown to TNT pizza. If I am looking for , um , you know , some sort of pan-Asian fusion influence , I'm going to go see chef. Chef search over at her pop ups that she does on Sundays and Mondays at White Rice Marina. I mean , heck , half the time I'm eating out white rice on Adams or at Liberty Station. I love taking my son to Liberty Station because he'll be able to get whatever he wants while I can get whatever I want , and that certainly is a dining destination that I think tourists and locals are beloved by both. I mean , for for ramen , I'm going to menu ultra for beer. Honestly , I'm probably just going to bottle craft and see and seen what Gene in North Park is going to recommend for me. But there's there's certainly no , no shortage of places that I'm , I'm hitting on the regular o sandwiches. I'm going to Georgina's in Golden Hill , and we've had Jackie and I have had some pretty heated discussions about where to get sandwiches around towns.
S3: So I'm.
S2: From the New York.
S3: Tri-State area. I got I got thoughts on deli sandwiches. So. Yeah. Yeah.
S1:
S3: Um , my current jam is Falafel Heights on 30th Street. Um. Leela is a Palestinian woman from the Bay area who makes sumac loaded , little fried falafels , and they are truly the best I think some of you will ever have. I overheard a conversation the other day. Someone was saying , I spend my all of my time looking for the best falafel , and this is the best. I felt very validated and I left , so you can feel really good about that. Um , I , I love steak. I am a known , uh , trust restaurant group hound , I love Catalano , I think they do amazing Italian. Brad Wise , like me , is from the Tri-State area , so he knows his panela vodka. Um , I also love rare society. I think they've got the best value. Highest quality , uh , steak in town. Like what you're getting for price and quality. They've just. They've just got it perfect there. So that. That's really my spot. Love the in and out in in Lemon Grove on Massachusetts Boulevard.
S2: That's where we that's where we disagree.
S5: Is my spot. I love.
S3: That spot. Not gonna lie.
S2: I'm going I'm going to Haze Burger. But that's just me I.
S3: Love Haze burger.
S1: Burger debates. Yeah.
S5: Yeah.
S3: No no we agree on this. I just went to the new Haysbert Inn in Kensington and had an incredible double cheeseburger there. You really can't go wrong with that. Um. Oh my God , there's so much Stella jeans. I've always got a pint of ube pandesal. Oh , yeah.
S2: Mango sticky rice , some Stella jeans all the way for sure all day.
S3: Love their new ice cream sandwiches. I could truly do this.
S5: Forever , but we should.
S2: Have started with. This.
S5: This. I've met.
S3: I miss so much. I'm so sorry to everybody. Oh , actually. Sorry. I do have one more. Um , if you like. Veal Milanese. There's only one place in San Diego to get it , and it's at the Michelin starred Chichi or Michelin recommended Chichi in Barrio Logan. You're welcome.
S1: All right , well , I mean , it's tons of great stuff there. We really appreciate it. We'll try to add some links to some of these just so people can kind of look at those on our website , PBS.org. Jackie Bryant is a content strategist at San Diego Magazine who focuses on food and lifestyle there. She's also co-host of the Happy Half-Hour podcast and Beth Daemon's also been joining me today. She's a freelance writer and beer journalist and a food writer with San Diego Magazine. She's also author of the book The Beer Lovers Guide to Cider. Thanks so much for joining us today and sharing some of your culinary wisdom here. It's been it's been really fun. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Thanks for having us.
S3: Thank you.
S1: When we come back , July and San Diego means pride and Comic-Con. We take a look at what people can expect. That's next on the roundup. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. It's time now for the Weekly Roundup. And back with us is KPBS web producer Laura McCaffrey. Hey , Laura. Hey.
S6:
S1:
S6: We just launched it this week on KPBS. Org. Backslash Comic-Con. It's everything you could possibly want and need for attending the convention. Um , and if you're not attending the convention , there's also a lot of stuff you can do without a badge.
S1: And I think that's one of the great pieces of of one of the best stories , I think , from this week is that , you know , how many things you can do , even if you weren't able to get a badge. We know how hard it is for folks to kind of sometimes get access to the convention itself , but there's a whole world of stuff going on after , like around it , right ? Yeah.
S6: I mean , like the Gaslamp itself just turns into , like , complete , like fandom world. Um , and there's so much you can do. So some of the events I noticed that seem really cool. There's a fandom fashion line , um , and they're having a fashion show at the Manchester Grand Hyatt. Um , and then something also that's really cute. Like , if you're a cosplayer and you're walking around the Gaslamp , there's actually a little repair station you can go to at the Central Library. So you get a little ripper hole in your costume. A button falls off. There's like stuff you can just , uh , repair your costume right then and there so you don't have to go home.
S1: That's a great idea. I think that's really cool. And also , you know , if you don't go to any of the events , if you're just there to people watch , I mean , it's like amazing to go down there. I'm kind of excited. They're doing I think it's for badge holders though , but they're doing a one piece concert is one of the , uh , at.
S5: The radio show.
S6: The anime. Right ? Yeah.
S1: It's a really famous anime show. There's like a Netflix version that came out this year. I know it through my kids , but it's a big deal. Um , so I might check that out. But there's other news with Comic-Con , too that just kind of just dropped this week , too , right ? Yeah.
S6: That's right. So , um , there's always been this will they will Comic-Con leave San Diego ? Will they won't they kind of thing going on ? Um , so news came out , um , I saw an article in the UT Comic-Con has agreed to stay in San Diego through 2026. Um , but they expressed concerns about , like , the high hotel rates. Um , and that could threaten future years. But I mean , personally , I think no matter like what city Comic-Con is at the hotel , rates are always going to be high now. Right.
S1: Right. And I think this is sort of a theme we've been hearing like the last few years is kind of like they commit for a year or two down the line , but keep saying , hey , we're getting too big. We might need to go to what is it like , Las Vegas ? We heard , right ? But I don't know about you , but I mean , I feel like we got to keep it in San Diego.
S6: I think so , too. Um , so there's there's other events coming up. I mean , July is a big event month for San Diego. Crazy.
S1: I mean , before Comic-Con hits , I mean , starting on Sunday , pride begins the Pride Week festival. You know , the main parade is not until Saturday , July 20th , but there's a whole week of stuff going on with pride. So , yeah , I mean , pretty much the rest of July is pretty jam packed for for the region. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. Um , and this weekend there's a couple interesting events. There's the annual shit fest. Um , and then I love drag. Personally. There's a it's called drag Alicia's , of course , a massive drag show. You know , RuPaul's Drag Race affiliated. Um , I'm assuming , um , our local RuPaul star , Chad Michaels , Cher impersonator extraordinaire , will be there. Uh. Love her. So those are a couple events I'm personally really excited about.
S1: And I'm sure we'll have some stuff on our website at KPBS. Org but in case you are looking for pride events , S.D. pride org will have a lot of what's going on over the next week. Well , a lot to look forward to this month. Lara McCaffrey , thanks again for being here and kind of walking us through some of what people can expect this month.
S6: Thanks for having me.
S1: That'll do it for our show today. Thanks so much for being here. You can listen to KPBS roundtable anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays again , Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any comments you'd like to share on today's show or ideas for future one , you can email us at roundtable at KPBS. Org. You can also leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtable's technical producer this week is Brandon Truffaut. The show was produced by Jacob Air with help from Laura McCaffrey. Brooke Ruth is Roundtable's senior producer. I'm Andrew Bracken. Thanks so much for listening and have a great weekend.
