S1: Welcome to KPBS roundtable. I'm Scott Rodd. For decades , surfer magazine was called the Bible of surf culture. The Carlsbad based publication went dormant during the pandemic , but now it's looking to make a comeback and expand its reach.
S2: You've seen this incredible demographic evolution where there's there's more people of color surfing than ever. There's more women surfing than ever.
S1: We'll discuss Surfer Magazine's new team , new website , and its goal of delivering in-depth stories and stunning photos. Plus , some high end outdoors magazines are finding success in old school print. We'll discuss how they're bucking the digital trend. That's just ahead on KPBS roundtable. For roughly six decades , Surfer magazine chronicled the rise of surfing around the globe through essays , reviews , short fiction , and lots of splashy photos. The publication went dark during the pandemic , but now it's planning a relaunch since Surfer Magazine is an institution based in San Diego County. We decided to do something different with this week's show. We're taking roundtable on the road. We met up with Surfer Magazine's new editor in chief , Jake Howard , at the California Surf Museum in Oceanside to learn more about the history of Surfer Magazine and his vision for its revival.
S2: Hi , I'm Jake Howard , I'm the editor in chief of surfer , and , uh , excited to be down here at the California Surf Museum in Oceanside. And we're going to take a little walk around and see what they got on the walls around here.
S1: Yeah , let's do it. You lead.
S2: The way. Let's go. Right here in the entrance of the museum is the book The Surf Writers of Hawaii. And it's pretty much the original or the oldest modern surf book or surf publication. It was. It was published in 1912. Captured early surfing and ocean life around Waikiki and Hawaii.
S1: And there are some examples of surfer magazines here. Right. Let's take a look at some of them.
S2: So this cover here that we're seeing , this is Nat Young at the World Championships in San Diego , and he's doing a bank turn on a right hand wave. And , um , it's at this moment that a lot of people would say the what would become known as the short board revolution began. A lot of people say that surfer is the Bible of the sport. That always gets kind of thrown around. And I think sort of what that means is surfer , for going on 65 years now has been the just a definitive look at what's kind of happened in surfing throughout history.
S1: So we're here not just to talk about the history of surfer magazine , but also its future.
S2:
S1: All right , so we're sitting down here in the secret spot of the California Surf Museum. Jake Howard , welcome to roundtable. Thanks.
S2: It's great to be here.
S1: So you are the new editor in chief of surfer magazine , a storied publication that has shaped surfing culture for decades. You're going to be overseeing its ambitious relaunch after it's been dormant for a few years. We're going to talk about all of that. But first , give us a brief history of Surfer Magazine and its significance.
S2: All right. Probably start at the beginning. Um , John Severson launched Surfer Magazine in 1960. It was a add on to a surf film that he had been working on , and it went through copies so quick he decided maybe I should maybe there's something to this. And , um , really quickly went from quarterly to bimonthly , and next thing you know , you had surfer as a monthly magazine. Um , and by. Yeah , by the mid 60s , surfer is off and running. They launched the surfer poll. I believe Phil Edwards was the first winner of that. And then. Yeah , 60 , 70 , 80 , 90 all the way to today. We have a print magazine that'll be coming out this August. And yeah , Surfer's been along for the ride with surfing through all of it. Thick and thin , big waves , small waves , longboard short boards , boys and girls , all of it.
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S2: So it's been a few years since then. Issues rolled off the press. Um , we've got a great issue that's going to be coming out. Is really exciting to to to bring it back and share with people that there was a print issue coming back the , the appetite and um , and just kind of hunger for it was was really sort of overwhelming almost that it was like , wow , people have really been missing this. So to come out with a , with an issue packed with amazing stories and photos and all kinds of stuff is , uh , is really exciting.
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S2: There's just , you know , after multiple owners through the mid 2000. Um , by the time Covid came around. Uh , the , the current owners at the time just made a decision that , um , it just kind of wind things down or , or mothball it to a point. Um , and so just kind of has been around , but but just didn't have the investment or the , the attention that it did. We've had a few loyal staff that have been keeping the lights on through the years. But , um , to come back and not only come out with a magazine , but we have a whole bunch of other stuff that we're working on that's , um , digitally. That's that's really exciting.
S1: And so you were named editor in chief of surfer earlier this year , and you'll be in charge of bringing it back to prominence.
S2: It's it's been a bit since , um , since surfer was at the kind of apex of surf media , and surf media has gone through a bunch of changes over the last few years as well. But we're going to start by we've got a crew going down to Tahiti for the Olympics , so we're going to be covering the Olympics in a really meaningful way across our website and social media. Then we roll into the print magazine , comes out in August , and then in October , we're bringing the big wave challenge to Nazare and Portugal , which is for 25 years. Bill sharp has been hosting the Big Wave Awards , which awards the rides of the year. The biggest waves ridden , worst wipeouts. All that fun stuff that comes along with big wave surfing. And we're also rebuilding the website there in that process. By October , hopefully we should have a new , new website as we get into 2025. There's some other big things in the works , you know , really trying to look at surfer holistically and not just it's not just a print magazine , it's not just a website , but it's going to be a platform to really help uplift and bring positivity to surfing , you know , from young surfers that are just trying to be discovered , to older folks that want to share their history and their stories with us , we're really looking to tell a multitude of stories across a variety of platforms.
S1: What will the print version feel and look like ? Will it feel and look like an old surfer magazine ? Will it look and feel like something new ? And same with the website.
S2: It's same great surfer magazine as you've ever known. There's some really , really amazing stories in there. We had we have a piece from Kelly Slater that's in there reflecting on what his time and surfing the of a piece that Carissa Moore wrote for us that's about her experience , um , and women in surfing and stuff like that. We have an interview with Katie Simmers in there from Oceanside , who is currently number one in the world. So there's a lot of like , really fun , interesting , impactful stuff in the magazine. Uh , in terms of the website , it's going to get a whole new look and feel. We want to really be able to showcase photos in a high definition , meaningful way. We want the reading experience to be top quality and and readable and enjoyable , and there's a nice flow to it. We're going to have a lot of new video content coming online , a lot of new programming that we've been working on. So there's a lot of different pieces , but really elevating the quality of our storytelling , the packaging of how we do it and and really showcasing the best or the best in terms of content. Serve content out there , whether that's photos , video or the written word. We're trying to work with the best photographers , team up with the best writers , and produce really compelling video. So it's going to be a multipronged launch , but it's it's really exciting.
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S2: We believe that a rising tide lifts all ships , and building meaningful partnerships and relationships with people. To really put everything out there in the forefront is a top priority for us.
S1: I've got a little show and tell aspect of this. I went to a bookstore in North Park this weekend , shout out to Verbatim Books , and I was perusing the shelves and I happened to find this. Yeah.
S2: The best of surfer. The former editor , Chris Morrow and Steve Hauck put this together. It's a it's a great book. Features a bunch of. I'm not sure exactly how many stories are in here. Um , but it's got great stuff from over 50 years of Surfer publishing , and.
S1: So I was able to read through some of them , and I especially enjoyed the stuff from the 60s and the 70s. It was very fun. It was just very , uh , kind of zany and humorous , but also a lot of social commentary in there. But there was something from the foreword that jumped out to me , and I wanted to get your reaction to it. Yeah , it was written by , uh , Dave Parmenter , and he writes , this was published in 2007. So he writes , we find in surfer magazines 45 years of publication a considerable amount of good writing , not just about the kinetics of surfboard and rider , but more importantly about the strange new hybrid of human being molded by continual play in that dynamic frontier where land meets sea. He goes on to write. The writers featured here may report , reflect , or even rant , but one thing they all have in common is that they have gone out of their way to cross the street to kick a sacred cow or two.
S2: That's , uh , you know , being being a surf rider is a unique thing , right ? That's not it's very immersive. That's what I take out of is that when you when you start writing about surfing or start covering surfing , photography , whether it's photography , writing or video or whatever , it's um , maybe a little bit like being part of the Mafia. Once you're in , you can't get out , you know , and , uh , and then all of a sudden , you're in this world and you wonder , like , how did I get here ? You know , and and through doing assignments , like , over the course of my career , there's been so many times where I've been somewhere and it's like , why am I here ? Why do I get to be here ? And like , I'm just me doing my thing , right ? Um , and you're standing there with the best big wave surfers in the world or whatever. And , and I think Dave brings that up to maybe that's part of it , is that once you start covering surfing and writing about it and really kind of like unearthing the the DNA and the ethos and really getting under the surface of it. It's just this like world that you , you immerse yourself in , and then you're you're off and running and going with the current and , and who knows where it's going to take you. Just like surfing , you're just kind of along for the ride once you take off. And , uh , I think that's for me , that's one of the most exciting things , is to be able to have conversations with your heroes or go somewhere that you've always dreamed about going. It's at surfer. We're in this really special place where we can share these stories and these images with people and inspire them to dream and inspire them to chase their dreams. And I think , uh , the bar , the access isn't that hard. You just kind of like once you start doing it , you're doing it. And , um , it's just a real privilege and honor to be able to do what we do.
S1: Well , on that note , I mean , how are you going to preserve the iconic surfer magazine of the past ? Right ? Because there's a certain amount of irreverence that's in this book. But then it's also referred to by Dave. And how will this new version of surfer be different ? Right.
S2: What we're looking at in terms of preserving surfers integrity and living up to its storied past , it's it's the same formula that surfer that John Severson started with back in the early 60s is work with the best writers , work with the best artists , the best photographers , and and always keep your feet in the sand. You know , always make sure that when you're talking about some something in the sport or in the culture , you're coming at it from beach level and you have to live it to really report on it genuinely. And that won't change the people that we write. The people that are writing for us today , people that are shooting photos for us today or are on the beach there. I was talking to our contributor and Tahiti today , and he's out flying his drone over the Olympic venue. And and that's exactly what he should be doing. He's on the beach. He's doing the doing the thing in the spot , you know.
S1: Oh , this new version be different.
S2: I think when you're looking at what the new version of surfer looks like , it embraces the change that surfing has undergone in recent years. You saw more people than ever come to surfing during the pandemic , right ? Like it was one of the only things you could do is if you lived by the coast. You can go to the beach and you could be safe in the water. You could spend time with your kids , get some vitamin D , get some fresh air. All good. And so a lot of people came to surfing. Over the last five years. You've seen this incredible demographic evolution where there's there's more people of color surfing than ever. There's more women surfing than ever. And just like surfer capitalized on movements or changes in surfing in the past will continue to lean into those changes and serve those audiences and and really make sure not only that we're covering what's happening in those communities , but we're giving them a voice and letting them tell their stories. And we're not just coming top down , but we're actually elevating them and giving them a platform to share what they're doing.
S1: Yeah , and I want to talk about that more because there there is a push to make surfing more welcoming and diverse. You know , KPBS , for example , has highlighted organizations that bring surfing to communities of color who historically have been left out , especially in the US , and to underprivileged populations who may not have the means to buy a board or may not be able to live near the water. So how will this push for more diversity and acceptance in surf culture shape your editorial decision making ? Maybe. Maybe. Tell me a little bit more about that elevating of voices and giving them a platform.
S2: I think the way that I've been thinking about that is , is that by giving people the platform or the voice to tell their own story , we're able to reach people in a much more meaningful way instead of. um , somebody just going into a community and reporting on something and then coming and writing a story about it , or sharing a video about it. This comes from the community. It comes from the people that are it , that are leading the charge , that are impacting it , and through that , they can inspire other people to do it. Sometimes you just need to see. I've done a lot of , um , work with Salama masa Kalan on this subject , and we've talked a lot about it , and one thing he always says is when I was growing up , I didn't see anybody in the water that looked like me. Right. So how do you change that identity , that ability for people to identify with the sport and be more inclusive ? And if somebody can see that one of our riders maybe looks like them more and is telling their story , maybe there's a way for them to , it resonates a different way with them. And and maybe that becomes more inclusive because we have a more variety of voices and more color on our palette to paint with. You know.
S1: When we come back , we'll discuss how Surfer Magazine will make its return during a busy year of coverage that includes the Olympic surf competition in French Polynesia.
S2: The wave Tohoku is one of a kind. It's a world class wave , obviously , and there really isn't anything else like it in the world.
S1: That's ahead on roundtable. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. We've been speaking with Jake Howard , editor in chief of Surfer Magazine , and we're recording from the California Surf Museum in Oceanside. Now , Jake , you've been a surf writer and journalist for decades. And , of course , you're also a longtime surfer yourself. Tell us about your personal connection to the sport and to surfer magazine.
S2: Nobody in my family surfed. I had no parents that surfed or relatives that surfed. Um , and we grew up in the Bay area where the water is cold and they're not , like , super inviting. Um , but there's something about it , like , I don't know , I started to learn to surf in Half Moon Bay when in Pacifica when I was , I don't know , 8 or 9 , something like that little kid. And then , um , in college , I studied English , something things in life had led me to Seal Beach , and I saw his lifeguarding in Seal Beach up in northern Orange County. But I ended up living across the street from a guy named Sean Collins , who was the one that started Surfline. And Sean gave me a job writing surf reports and recording the voice recording for 976 surf back when that was the thing. So , um , I'd go to the surf line offices every morning and , uh , field phone calls from payphones up and down the coast and then right up the surf report and record it and and stuff like that. And that was kind of my first foray into , uh , into like working in surfing. And I had the opportunity to intern at surfer. This is probably around 2000 , and my first paying job at surfer , I was I was doing a little bit of this. They had a thing called the Travel Report , and I was filling orders for that. But part of it was that I also had to clean bathrooms and help in the warehouse and answer phones at lunch. Um , but it was like anything I could do to , like , get my foot in the door at surfer. But all of a sudden I'm like , in the halls and there's Andy Irons and Kelly Slater and all these people come into the office and it was like , oh my God , this is the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. And time goes on. And and went on to work for ESPN and The Surfer's Journal and the WSL and a few other folks along the way. Um , but it's crazy now. You know , 15 , 20 years after starting my journey with surfer to be back there again , you know , we're.
S1: In a time of tremendous uncertainty when it comes to the media industry. Publications are shuttering. Layoffs are happening all over.
S2: We're spending a lot of time talking about that and working through that. Um , I think there's a lot of strategies that we can put in place. We're looking to figure out innovative ways to make it a sustainable business , make it a business that can continue to not only , you know , break even over years , but be successful. Um , you know , it's not just about a website. It's it's creating community. It's building meaningful properties that that we can really activate around creating franchise content pieces that we can invite partners to , to be part of continuing to to grow our reach and look at things that continue to innovate , always , always keep innovating and and looking at where media trends are and technology trends are. And how can a surfer be a technological leader along the way , not just a content person , but we're we're harnessing the power of , you know , it could be Instagram and TikTok today and maybe in two years. It's something else. So cool. We haven't even heard of it yet. But that's kind of the mindset is we want to celebrate our history , but always keep innovating and keep pushing forward. And we're actually at a really it's a really cool opportunity to come in to surfer and sort of right , create that what that looks like. There's a lot of freedom and a lot of opportunity to to build something new and , and not just have to do it because this is the way it's always been done. But we can always we can be really forward looking. With.
S3: With.
S1: New trends and advancements in technology , there's promise , but there's also peril along the way. Surfer is owned by the arena Group. Last year , that company was caught up in some controversy with artificial intelligence that was allegedly used to write stories and Sports Illustrated , which the arena Group also published. While the company denied wrongdoing , there has been some upheaval there. Its CEO was fired late last year , for example.
S2: Um , all of those sports , all of those disciplines. The way they're covered is so specific to the culture that I becomes so obvious right away that , like , you know , it's like walking down the beach in a spring suit and booties and a fluorescent hat that like , we know who you are. You know you're that guy. And because we want to cover things from an authentic standpoint and we're coming , we know every writer that we work with , you know , every photographer we work with , we know where everything's coming from. Um , everybody's vetted. Trusted. These are relationships that we've had in a lot of cases for years and years. And the people were bringing onboard people I've known for years. And while AI is is a tool and it's out there and it's definitely something that's permeating our , our world , um , in terms of how we approach covering the sport and culture of surfing and how all these other Adventure Network , um , titles and brands cover their sports. It's from such an authentic point of view and such a real point of view , that it's not even a question that we want real reporting and real photos and real video , and there's really no place in our ecosystem for AI.
S1: My understanding is when surfer went dormant several years ago , it laid off much of its staff. Is there a plan to staff back up , and if so , what does that look like ? Yeah.
S2: Well , first I have to say big thanks to Ashton Douglas Rosa for keeping the lights on. But yes , we're staffing up. We've got a contributor list that's growing , we've got more photographers that we're working with , and we've brought in Nathan Myers , who's a longtime partner or co collaborator with a filmmaker named Taylor Steele , who did a lot of surf movies and has worked a lot with Kelly Slater and the top surfers over the years. So Nathan's come in to be our strategist and programming expert for all our video and YouTube. We've partnered up with Bill Sharpe to bring the big wave challenge to surfer , and there's going to be a lot more of that coming.
S1:
S2: It seems to be. Every day. We're kind of like finding a new we need somebody to do that and we need somebody to do that. So I don't think we have like a hard number on it , but we want to make sure that we're covering surfing from a global perspective , and that we have reporters and writers stationed in key locations throughout the world , and then also having a dedicated editorial and social staff and video production staff here.
S1: Speaking of worldwide stage , worldwide presence , the Paris Olympics are starting soon and this is surfing's second year in the Olympic Games.
S2: I think the location I've spent a bunch of time down there in Tahiti where the event is going to be held. It's one of the most beautiful places in the world. It's giant green tropical mountains up to the sky and deep blue water and beautiful coral reefs. The nicest people you're ever going to meet. And if a little of that gets conveyed , um , the surfing and the competition are going to be interesting , obviously , but but just being able to share surfing like that and its natural environment to the world is to me like that's that's the big win. And if the waves are pumping and there's some brilliant performances too , that's fantastic. But just the opportunity to share that special part of the world with , uh , an audience that maybe not , isn't really that familiar with.
S1: Surfers will be paddling out in French Polynesia. What can you tell us about this stunning legendary wave and what it means to hold a competition here ? Yeah.
S2: The wave. Tohoku is one of a kind. It's a world class wave , obviously , and there really isn't anything else like it in the world , Kelly Slater compares. He puts it as one of his top three waves out there. Um , Cloudbreak and Fiji and Pipeline being his other two. But , um , yeah , this wave , it's not a long wave and but it's powerful and it's heavy breaks over very shallow reef. And it's a very intense wave , especially when it's big. The bigger it gets , the more intense it gets. And it's really going to test surfers in a way that we didn't see them tested in , um , Japan. And we're not going to see him tested that way in LA in 2028. It's really sort of an anomaly. And it's going to , you know , if they get some waves , it's going to be an amazing show for us.
S1: So with the Olympics , the big wave challenge in Nazare , Portugal , uh , the World Surf League finals all happening in the coming months. What's surfer Magazine's role as the sport has this big moment on the world stage.
S2: When we look at what's coming up in the next few months , surfers really well positioned to be there on the ground covering the Olympics. We're going to be there on the ground covering the WSL finals , and then it's going to culminate with the launch of the magazine at the end of August. And then the The Big Wave Challenge will see the best big wave surfers in the world coming to Nazare , and we're going to celebrate their accomplishments. And that's really I think , um , that's a that's an event that we're we're getting behind and we're partnering with and really looking to elevate that and take take it to the next level and treat these big wave surfers with the integrity and , and clout that they deserve. Because what they do is radical. So yeah , surfer's going to we're going to be there reporting it on on it all. We're going to offer unique insights , unique perspectives. We're going to share inside knowledge. When we have it. We're we're going to , um , give people just a little bit more. We just did a , um , feature on the locals and Tahiti that have been surfing in the last few days as a nod to to those guys. They're giving up their surf spot for a couple of weeks for the Olympics and want to make sure that we're given a lot of respect to those folks down there. And and just always make sure that we're thinking of folks and trying to elevate things and uplift people.
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S2: We're going to see how it goes and build from there. We don't have a definitive plan of what 2025 looks like , based on the response and the and the partnerships and and everything that we've been seeing. We're really excited about it. And so hopefully there's opportunity to do a lot more in the future. But but this will be the one for 2024.
S1: We've been talking to Jake Howard , the new editor in chief of Surfer magazine , and we're speaking with him from the California Surf Museum in Oceanside. The magazine is making its revival in print , digital and by sponsoring major competitions in the coming months. Jake , thanks again for joining us.
S2: Thanks for having me. This has been awesome.
S1: When roundtable returns , some other outdoor and adventure magazines are finding an unusual formula for success publishing in print.
S4: They are magazines with long form journalism. Top notch photography really meant to to be seen and held and to be thumbed through.
S1: That's next on Round Table. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Scott Rodd. We spent the first part of the show talking about the relaunch of Surfer Magazine , which is based in San Diego County. Now we're going to step back and take a look at the state of outdoors and adventure publications more broadly , and how a number of them are finding success in good old fashioned print. We're joined by New York Times journalist John Branch , who is based out of California and recently published a story on some of these magazines that are beating the odds. John , welcome to the show.
S4: Thank you , Scott , glad to be here.
S1: Your recent article in The New York Times carried this headline in a digital age , high end outdoors magazines are thriving in print.
S4: You know , we're in this world now , the post digital world of magazines. And after seeing a lot of these print magazines struggle for years and years , people have now figured out that maybe there's a market and that there is a market for readers who are willing to subscribe. Some people who are willing to advertise , um , pretty high dollar advertising through sponsorships And these people are able to create these magazines that seem to have found success with a small number of readers , but a profitable number of readers.
S1: And what are some examples of titles ? Yeah.
S4: So one of the ones that first came to mind for me back in 2016 was one called Adventure Journal. And Steve Casimiro is the , um , is the publisher and editor of that. And he had been a former editor at powder magazine and a West Coast manager for one of the National Geographic titles. He started Adventure Journal back in 2016 , and he's kind of considered one of the godfathers of this new trend that we're seeing in the last few years , things like the Mountain Gazette , which is actually a rebirth of an old magazine , a travel magazine called Ori , a surf magazine called emotion , the relaunch of another former title called Summit Journal , aimed at climbers. Um , most of these have come along just in the last 3 or 4 years and seem to be at the at the front end of this trend.
S1: And so we're talking about higher end magazines. Can you describe what some of them physically look like ? You know , how are they different from a standard monthly magazine ? Yeah.
S4: So , you know , most of them come from people who used to work in what you might think of as kind of the glossy newsstand magazines , the kind that you might roll up and put in the back of your pocket or your back pocket or into your backpack. These , instead of being disposable , are meant to be collectible. And so they're on really high end paper , thick paper. A lot of them are matte instead of glossy. Uh , most of them have flat backs or bindings so they can be stacked or they look nice on a shelf. Um , I think there are probably some people who subscribe to these simply to put them on their coffee table. So it makes them look smart or or educated or just cool because they're surfer magazines. Um , the photography is , is sometimes , you know , edge to edge. Um , the writing is more literary. The these are not the type of magazines that just have , you know , top ten lists or , or gear , um , reviews. They are magazines with long form journalism. Um , top notch photography really meant to , um , to be seen and held and to be thumbed through and not just flip through and tossed away were.
S1: Of course , moving more and more into a digital world generally , but certainly in publishing. But when did this trend of print mags bucking the digital trend really start to get a footing ? Yeah.
S4: It's interesting. I think , you know , Adventure Journal in 2016 , I think really set a precedent. And that magazine had started basically as a blog. And I , you know , for those of us that remember blogs , but it started as an outdoors blog and was getting really high end writers writing about the outdoors , but not a big audience because , you know , things just get lost out in the digital world. Um , the web is a big , big place. And Steve Casimiro decided he was going to take this basically off of the web and turn it into print. He wanted something that would be a little bit more lasting. Um , that felt a little bit more substantial and not just fleeting and more of a destination than just something that you scroll through on your phone. And so he started that in 2016. What's interesting is that his his outlook on this actually is very similar to one that we see with the Surfers Journal and the Surfers Journal started in the early 1990s before the digital age. But it basically set a sort of a tone for what we see today in terms of high quality collectible kinds of magazines at a high price , higher than , you know , the old glossy magazines of a few of a few dollars. These are 15 , 20 or $25 per issue. Um , but that magazine basically was ahead of the digital age and then was immune to what all the other magazines were going through , which was trying to get yourself going from print to digital , trying to find , uh , advertising revenues digitally as opposed to print , trying to keep subscribers out in the digital world that used to subscribe to your to your print product. And it rode through the digital age as is kind of anomaly. But now , on this end of the digital age , magazines and print fans are seeing like , maybe there's something to that , that old fashioned notion of take me away from digital , give me something to hold , give me something tactile , give me something I can come back to and leave on my coffee table and be proud to have it and give me something that I'm willing to pay some money for because I find value in this kind of quality.
S1: Well , and on that note , people think of the downsides of print publications like the cost of the materials , cost of production , cost of getting it out to the people who want to hold it.
S4: Um , you know , I think freelancers , for example , who make up the bulk of the people who contribute to these magazines because most of these magazines don't have staffs of writers or photographers. So freelancers are proud to have their work displayed in such a way that feels something that that might go into a library or it's going to go into a bookshelf as opposed to something that's just going to be flipped through like anybody else's Instagram feed. Um , so I really do think it's a sense of permanence. Um , which , which is , is bringing people into this and sort of evoking this kind of old fashioned notion that , you know , journalism and photography and good writing or something to be cherished and remembered and not just something that is is there to entertain us in our in our idle hours , on our phone.
S1: I'm curious how many of these outdoor magazines are finding this success in the print world , and maybe it'll be hard for you to to give an overall estimate.
S5:
S4: Seems to be , you know , I really focused on the outdoors world because this is where I first noticed this. Um , but it does seem to be , in a lot of ways , focused that way. Um , it's the climbing , the surfing , skiing , um , outdoor adventure kind of travel. Certainly people who are buying these magazines are people who tend to have a little bit of money , a little bit of disposable income to be be buying a magazine that might cost , say , $100 for four issues each year. Um , and so it's those kinds of sports. But , you know , the more I looked into it and actually , once the story published in the New York Times , I learned more from from other niches. Um , there are sports magazines for things like basketball culture. I just got an email from somebody who has a magazine called Crease Magazine that is about hockey culture. Uh , so I think it's it's basically people who are trying to find , uh , magazines or create magazines and , and content for people who want more of the cultural connection to these sports as opposed to just the X's and O's , or just the results oriented , um , type of information that you might find online. These are people who are trying to to curate longer form stories and photography , and to give you something that's just a little bit off the beaten path from all that.
S1: You had mentioned the cost , the price of some of these magazines , 15 , 20 bucks an issue , or , you know , upwards of $100 a year for an annual subscription for something that might come out quarterly.
S4: And certainly , you know , most of these people who have these magazines are keeping their content only for print now , then most of them have pretty good social media presences and sort of this , uh , kind of strange twist to all this is that you need to , to use social media and use the digital world to find these people , to then bring them to a , to a print product. Um , but I do think you might leave a few people out. The numbers that we're talking about are fairly small. I mean , we're talking about magazines that are trying to get a subscription base of several thousand people. And when you start doing some math , you realize , well , if you have 5000 subscribers all paying $100 a year , um , is that enough money to get these print product out , to pay the freelancers a fair wage , and maybe make a little bit of a living that this is now my my full time job and number a number of guys and women have figured out a way to to make that work. Some seem to be on the edge of making that work , but it is a a a way not to really get rich. Um , there's no quick fix or a get rich quick scheme here. It's really just a way to try to cultivate journalism and , you know , find your passion in the world of outdoors or whatever niche that you happen to be building a magazine in and a passion for journalism , and then hoping you can do it well enough and successfully enough that you can make a small career out of it.
S1: There's some old sayings in journalism if you want to make money , go sell shoes. If you want to make people happy , go sell ice cream. If you want to do something you're passionate about , it sounds like , put it down on the page and ship it out in a magazine. Um , you talked about social media being a factor in this.
S5:
S4: Really use social media. The ephemeral nature of social media , like the way you put that as as a marketing tool to connect to audiences and what they are finding with finding. And I think this is where my story was. Trying to make a point here is that that resonates with people , that there are people scrolling their phones , seeing just as dizzying array of photos and maybe links to stories and things , but nobody is curating it for them. And so these people have found , like , if we can get those people's attention just fast enough to show them that we are curating high end material for them and like minded materials. Say if you're a climber or a surfer , we will bring this to your doorstep and we will sort of take that effort away from you so you don't have to scroll through and just hope that just by luck , you happen to click on a link that is is intriguing to you. And so they're trying to take that old notion of curation , which is what magazines used to do , and , and pull it back and bring it back to people. It is funny that they that they use social media because that's basically how they target people. You know , it used to be that you would do it by by phone or by mail or something , but now social media is the way that you actually market your products. And so they are marketing their product and saying , if you want to read the full story of this , you're going to need to subscribe and read it in print the way we think it's intended to be.
S1: So we spoke to Surfer magazine's new editor in chief , Jake Howard , about the revival of that storied surf publication. And they're actually doing. Maybe you could say the opposite in a way , with their relaunch , they're going to have a big print edition to announce their return , but then focus their efforts really on digital , including a new website and , you know , their social media channels. I'm curious , how does that compare to the philosophy of some of these outdoor magazines that you covered ? And I guess I'm wondering , is that a , uh is that a workable path for a publication that's trying to reinvent itself in 2024 ? Yeah.
S3:
S4: Well , I hope it's workable for them and and for others. Um , I think most of the people that I talk to who are creative print magazines , um , they came out of that world. They worked for magazines like Powder or Skiing or Outside Magazine or National Geographic that were , you know , once esteemed titles that have struggled to figure out how to find their way in the digital world. You know , what material do you have people pay for ? What material do you give away for free ? How do you find advertisers to make up for the loss of print advertising that you used to have ? Um , the people that I talked to for this story came out of that world and basically were exhausted by it. They kind of got spit out by it. They got exhausted by just trying to figure out how to find ad dollars through clicks. And they said , you know what ? We're just done with that. We're going to go back in time a little bit and actually give people something to hold. And we think it'll it'll simplify our lives. If basically we say it's going to cost you this much , you're going to get this number of magazines every year , and then we don't have to worry about all the , the , the numbers of what if I get x number of clicks here , how many ad dollars will I get there ? Um , and so in a way , they've simplified their lives because they just don't want to play that game anymore.
S1: Finally , I'm curious , what does the future look like for these magazines , you know , how can they continue to find success in print , you know , moving forward ? Yeah.
S5:
S4: I think you've built a really loyal audience. You know , people like the Surfers Journal that's been doing this since 1992 or 1993. They have a renewal rate of close to 90% every year. So you build loyalty to it ? Uh , for one. But , you know , a lot of comparisons can be made between this and , say , like vinyl. You know , we've seen the rebound , I guess , of vinyl records. It's not going to be a huge part of the music industry , just like print magazines are not going to be a huge part of media. Um , but there is a viable way to make it work and , and to aim your , uh , magazine , in this case toward people who have have sort of a shared belief that this is how they want to to absorb this. Not unlike we see people who want to buy vinyl because they think that's the purest form of music. Maybe it's nostalgic , maybe it is a pure form in some ways , but I think there will be enough magazines that will find a way to make , um , a small dent in the digital marketplace.
S1: John Branch is a New York Times journalist who is based out of California and reports on sports climate in the outdoors. John , thank you for joining us on roundtable and sharing your reporting.
S4: Thank you very much , Scott.
S1: That's our show for today. You can listen to KPBS roundtable anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays and again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any comments on today's show or ideas for a future one , you can email us at roundtable at PBS.org. You can also leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtable's technical producer this week is Brandon Truffaut. This show was produced by Jacob Air. Brooke Ruth is Roundtable's senior producer and I'm Scott Rodd. Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend.
