S1: It's time for Midday Edition on Kpbs. Civic education is an important part of our democracy. Today we'll talk about how it shapes future leaders. I'm Jade Hindman. Here's to conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. Civic Learning Week starts today. We'll look at how education around the topic has changed.
S2: The social studies experience that we may have experienced ourselves as adults growing up has , by and large , been marginalized , outright eliminated in many schools.
S1: Plus , a look at why young voters are disengaging and how to get them back involved. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman , it is Civic Education Week , and we are talking about its importance to preparing future leaders of democracy. This is Midday Edition , connecting our communities through conversation. For many young people , their first exposure to politics and the idea of democracy is in the classroom. However , in many states , civic education hasn't been a priority for years. Civic Learning Week kicks off today , and it's an effort to change that. I'm joined now by two guests who are here to explain the current state of social studies , and why it's critical to our democracy. Zachary Cote , he is the executive director of the nonprofit Thinking Nation. Zachary , welcome.
S3: Thanks for having me. Jade , it's a pleasure to speak with you today.
S1: So glad to have you here. Also , Larry Posca is executive director for the National Council of Social Studies. Larry , welcome to you as well.
S2: Thank you very much , Jade , for having me.
S1: So glad to have you both here. So my first question is , you know , when I was a kid in K through 12 school , I felt like social studies covered everything from international conflicts in history to the branches of government , and it was all taught by the football coach. It's kind of been an umbrella term used for a lot of different subjects. So what exactly is social studies , Larry ? I'll ask. I'll start with you. Sure.
S2: Sure. Well , social studies yearly is the study of the human made world. It's what makes us human. It's the study of individuals , of communities , of systems , of how people and communities and systems interact across time and place. And we believe it prepares all students for local , national and global civic life.
S1:
S3: And that can be a really unifying factor that really breathes this civic life that is , is needed for a constitutional democracy. Yeah.
S1:
S3: So I like to instead of using the word civic , I really like to use the word civic dispositions. Because to me , I think that the civic dispositions that citizens have and learn to engage with are really what can bring together communities , help us empathize with other perspectives , help us to ask good questions around evidence , and to seek good evidence. And if we can really produce that type of civic learning that that cultivates these civic dispositions and students , I think that's where democracy can flourish as it's intended to. Mhm.
S4: Mhm.
S1: You know , thinking nation commissioned a report last year about the state of social studies across the US.
S3: And it's a question a second class subject. Um , and you know , I think Larry can speak to this as well. You know , those of us in social studies education often look out into what you said early on. Jade , you know , your teacher was the football coach. And there's a joke that the most common first name of a social studies teacher is coach. And , uh , and so we , you know , we wanted to have this representative survey data of how administrators , uh , principals , social studies teachers perceive social studies education. And as it turns out , the data showed that one , there's discrepancies between how administrators view what's happening in the classroom and how teachers view what's happening in the classroom. Um , it's apparent , based on the survey data , that the funding is often geared towards Stem and Ela , and also that social studies teachers aren't supported in the same way as the other core content areas. And so there's a lack of professional development and training for teachers. And this survey data really allows us , at least at Thinking Nation , to think very intentionally about how we can support those teachers who are in the classrooms.
S1: Larry , do you have any other thoughts on that ? Yes.
S2: So what our collective data shows is really a contradiction in every sense of the word. Um , first , the social studies experience that we may have experienced ourselves as adults growing up has , by and large , been marginalized and outright eliminated in many schools. Um , since the introduction , really going back to No Child Left Behind act in 2002 , we've seen a steady erosion of social studies learning time at the elementary level. That's really important because that's when our kids are forming the basics of understanding about how the world works. That's when our young learners are asking questions about the world around them. Um , as Zach mentioned , the disciplinary approach thinking geographically , economically , uh , thinking historically , thinking about the ways in which people connect with with the world around them , those moments are lost. And when students are first experiencing social studies learning , let's say , at the. At a level or in high school. They've lost significant opportunities to build that knowledge and ask those questions. And the the challenge that we've seen now is the contradiction is that while the course time has been reduced , our kids perceive social studies courses as very important. Over 90% of respondents of a survey that we issue every year , our students tell us social studies is matters to us based on what's going on around the world , around us. In fact , they tell us that they gain significant civic benefits by participating in social studies classes. They tell us , if anything , they want more social studies. They want more experiences courses. And another contradiction that the data reveal to us is when we look at studies , like recently , the College Board announced that of the top ten most commonly taken Advanced Placement exams , five of them are in social studies disciplines. So half of the of the exams are kids are wanting to take in for advanced credit , are in social studies courses , and yet we don't provide the foundation for those experiences in the earliest grades. And so again , contradiction. Kids want it , teachers want it. And our systems are struggling to provide it.
S1: And I know that requirements and curriculums can vary from state to state. What are you seeing here in California. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. For so thinking nations based in Los Angeles. And so we , you know , got our start as a nonprofit working with schools local to Southern California. And I think in California , there's a rightful push towards kind of pursuing an honest , authentic history. And so we see that in the new ethnic studies framework that the legislation passed a couple of years ago , and next year schools will be required to teach this. And so these efforts like this or , you know , another example is the California Civic Seal of Engagement. Yet that is still an opt in component of the high school curriculum. Um , and so you have some schools who pursue it and some schools who don't. But the good thing is , is there's more and more conversation about how the courses within social studies can really equip students to be better citizens , right ? To be better neighbors , to understand the perspectives of their peers who maybe come from a different background , um , and examples like that. And so I think there's a lot of excitement about what's happening in California specifically. I think the one thing we're still up against again , is the ratio of funding for Stem and Ela compared to social studies. So even though the ah , the there's these sticks , you know , that are , um , produced by the standards changing and the requirements changing , there's not necessarily the incentives or the carrot that um , at least provides those opportunities for school to do so in a way that's really beneficial for students. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , it takes an investment , but still , civic education has been defunded over the past few decades. We're seeing more efforts by our government to revitalize it. But you've both alluded to this a bit already. But why was it neglected in the first place ? Zachary , I'll I'll toss that question to you. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. So I think the more and more I speak with other people who are engaged in social studies , we kind of bring it back to , um , the space race. Uh , right. So during the Cold War , the United States is at a in a race with the Soviet Union to , to build , build , build , to make science stronger. And we've seen this thread since then , really where Stem is prioritized as the mechanism towards progress. Um , and yet that comes at a cost towards understanding maybe why we need that progress or why the progress may be pushed too soon. And so I think really it goes back to Stem. Um , you know , many of us in the , the circles are saying that America's 250th anniversary , which is happening in 2026 , um , should be our moonshot. This is where we should really be pushing for this revitalization of civics , and I hope we do.
S1:
S2: And so , you know , there's only so many hours in a school day. Um , J we all had , uh , social studies experiences , it sounds like , at the elementary level , every day when you have to take away social studies , you have to take away science. You're prioritizing , for example , literacy class , math class. Some of them are 90 minute or 2 hour blocks. There's only so much time in a day. And so what we've seen happen is prioritizing. That means that that students may be developing the skills. But but are those skills anchored to specific content. And that's the challenge that we see. Is our kids reading developmentally age appropriate texts. Are they reading texts that are engaging to them ? Are they developing the math skills and the reading skills based on topics and areas that are. First to them. Um , when kids come home with a with a really exciting reading about a figure in history or a , or a theme or movement , they might be more inspired to learn. And they're also learning the content of social studies. So we we sort of trace it back to that. But we're also seeing now when you're asking about where the Deprioritized funding. About ten years ago , there was a grant program called Teaching American History grants. Significant sources of resources , funding for organizations to develop curriculum materials , send teachers to professional development programs throughout the year. Um , that was a major investment in history education that's been gone for a long time. Um , in in Congress , there was a bill called the Civic Secure Democracy Act , which would have been a $5 billion investment in civics education. Uh , that's a strong investment. Unfortunately , that bill hasn't advanced forward as of as of today. We really call on every state and and certainly Congress to consider these as funding priorities. They make a big difference. And especially if Congress funds it , certainly , we hope it would trickle down to state legislatures to do the same , to say , hey , if this is an investment nationally , we think we should prioritize this at a state level.
S1: And I know the National Council of Social Studies represents teachers from all levels. That includes K through 12 and college.
S2: Um , based on sources , both Zach and I right now are at a conference. We're focusing on how you use primary sources , and history is a very big part of the work. Students love knowing about the world around them. They want to understand their role as a citizen. Our annual data shows that these are among the things kids are asking for in their social studies. Experience is to know about the world and be prepared to participate in it. And another thing that they're they're certainly looking to do is to engage in sometimes hard questions about , you know , over time , change over time , and that events happen and , you know , there is still progress to be made , but that doesn't mean progress hasn't been made. And so using technology , using multiple media , using different sources to to engage with the past and understand the direction that they might be able to take society in in the future , that's really what's really our subject is all about preparing for the future. And I think that excites kids and it certainly excites our teachers.
S1:
S3: And I think the traditional view of how history is taught , it's taught as a narrative , you know , a narrative , something is something that you passively receive as a student. But to what Larry said , you know , um , students are curious. And this inquiry based instruction where students get to ask tough questions and engage in intriguing sources that sometimes challenge their own predispositions. That's where real growth happens , and that's when students feel like that they are empowered to have a voice , um , about what they study. And so , I mean , even , you know , at our resources , at Thinking Nation , we're really constantly trying to think through how do we get students to ask questions about what they engage with ? Because it may be a hard hurdle to jump at the beginning. But when students get comfortable with that ability , that's when this deep , um , you know , um , engagement with the past , this engagement with ideas. Um , you know , I was in a classroom in the Crenshaw neighborhood of Los Angeles last week , and students were engaging in a Socratic seminar where they were asked the question , um , in what ways did enslaved people resist their enslavement ? And why is this historically significant ? Students were reading four different primary sources accounts from formerly enslaved people , and what their experience was , and then having to understand both how are they resisting this oppression that they're experiencing ? And why is why does that matter beyond them ? Right. Why is this historically significant ? And to see a room full of students saying , you know , in paragraph two of this primary source , this is what the person is saying , and this is , um , this demonstrates their resilience. Um , you know , we started to see this , you know , students felt empowered. They felt like they got to have a voice in the classroom rather than. And just receive whatever that the teacher was teaching that day. And that's really the , I think , important , um , you know , component to the history classroom that can push things forward.
S1: Coming up , the conversation continues with a look at what educators need to prepare democracy's future leaders.
S3: By equipping teachers , we can then empower students. But that's going to take a reinvestment in the time for social studies education , and it's going to take a reinvestment in the finances behind social studies education.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. Welcome back. You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We're continuing the conversation about social studies with Zachary Cote from Thinking Nation and Larry Pascha from the National Council for Social Studies. So , Zachary , there's another component you mentioned which is finding the primary sources for history. Can you talk a bit more about it and why it's important ? Because I can't ever recall that being something that was emphasized when I was in school. And I know that that is really important.
S3: But for for historians , primary sources are the bedrock of the discipline. Right. Like we go to the sources of the people who experience the past in order to understand the past and to order in order to understand that humans are complex. Right ? History is not binary. It's not a single narrative. It's a story of human nature , which is complex , filled with tension , it's nuanced , it's confusing , and if you only understand history through a single source , you know , there was a Ted talk a few years ago , the danger of a single story. And that's the same thing with using a textbook only approach in history. Right ? It's there's there's a danger there and a lack of exposure to the diversity of the human past. They really only engagement with primary sources can provide for students.
S2: Part of the reason we probably didn't experience primary sources too much growing up , and I'm dating myself and saying , this is , you know , we're working off of printed textbooks. These books , as it were , were five , six , 700 pages. And , you know , they're very limited in what they can do while they present photos and pictures and charts and graphs. They also have to present a narrative. And we just didn't have access to the materials that kids today have access to. So being able to go online to the Library of Congress website or the National Archives or the Smithsonian or your local museum , you know , San Diego Museums , you're going to have access to all free content , much of it interpreted for educators and kids. And when it's not interpreted , it's still easily downloadable. Or there's there's teaching guides that go with them , and that opens up a whole world for not the book to tell you. Here's how to read this document , but for teachers to guide students in how to analyze and look at a source. And that's powerful. Any of us who've ever taken a picture in our family know that who's in the picture and who's not in the picture ? Those are two very important things , right ? The photo tells you who's there , but it also tells you who's not there. Having students not just look at a photograph , but to look at a picture as a snapshot in time. But also photos are staged. Photos are meant to make political statements. Sometimes photos are are there to document something important. But the source of the photo where it was taken , why that's important , where it was published. Those are the questions that are at the heart of understanding the past and making meaning of it. And that's what excites kids. And to ask them a question of take a look at this picture now , who's not in it right away ? Your brain is going to a million different things about what do you mean who's not in it ? Why wouldn't they be there ? And that helps us to unlock , um , so many things about the past that help us make meaning of it and help us think through how a topic might resonate today and into the future.
S4:
S1: There's also been these coordinated campaigns to suppress social studies curriculums across the country. We're seeing efforts to censor black and LGBTQ , plus history and books.
S2: We just don't know what that means. What that what that term even means. Teachers are professionals. They are ethical. Um , to be a licensed educator , you go through a lot of training on on how to select materials and provide instruction in , in age appropriate ways. And the simple thing for us is that up until a few years ago , the challenge was always how to include every voice in a curriculum. Oftentimes , you know , again , most school years are 180 days. There's 40 minutes of instruction in a high school period. The challenge has always been , how do we include every voice ? And educators often have to make careful selections about how they present a topic or theme , but don't get so overwhelmed. The past few years , the discussion has been towards how can we exclude voices and how can we exclude terms , topics , themes , um , questions. And this is a very unusual point in our in our history in social studies education. Again , we're used to thinking about how to be inclusive. And in fact , we've often been trying very hard as a. Caters to be inclusive , and we take the criticisms fairly when we're when we know we need to be more inclusive. But the notion of silencing stories and perspectives , silencing voices is new to us. It's hard. And I think a lot of educators , first of all , they're working from curriculum materials that , you know , there's a lot of content in them. There are a lot of sources in them , so they're going about their day to day. But truthfully , I think many of us are all kind of on guard right now that we're very cautious about , you know , we want to say something that's , you know , we don't want to say the wrong thing. We don't want to put ourselves in jeopardy. We certainly don't want our students to , um , you know , be in the limelight or our school to be in the limelight for doing something wrong. And the last thing I'll say to this is sometimes the laws that are proposed or passed appear almost contradictory to the state standards that are often or often used to assess student achievement. So to say you can't talk about certain topics in certain ways , but then mandate that those topics be addressed in a in a curriculum or in the standards seems kind of contradictory.
S1:
S3: Right ? There's there's a fear that a particular content can , um , offset a perceived traditional way of life. And there's also a distrust in professionals , which in this case are teachers. And , you know , if I'm linking this to Civic Learning Week , we know that fear and distrust are like , you know , if those are embedded into a society , that's a recipe for disaster , for democracy. And I think we need to be aware of that.
S1:
S3: We need to make sure that teachers feel equipped and don't feel like they need to hide a particular , you know , perspective of the past , but that they can tell a story of the human made world. You know , that's how Larry defines social studies at the beginning of this conversation , that it's the study of the human made world , and that means all humans. And so I think by equipping teachers , we can then empower students. But that's going to take a reinvestment in the time for social studies education , and it's going to take a reinvestment in the finances behind social studies education.
S1: So , Larry , I'll let you have the last word here.
S2: I think I'd close just by saying , I'm hopeful that Civic Learning Week is not perceived as something educators are doing for educators and kids , but that everyone who's listening thinks about. Is there something I can do to learn more about civic learning this week ? Social studies is literally all around us. Everything , I would argue everything we do is about social studies. Are you right now following an upcoming election or being encouraged to or reading about it every day you're doing social studies. Are you debating between whether you want to buy that car or need to buy that car ? You're doing social studies. It's economics. Are you deciding on a new place to live ? Do you have to move out of your apartment to another place ? You're doing social studies ? That's geography , right ? Are you visiting a museum this weekend ? You're probably engaged in history. My point is , is that everything to us is social studies. All roads lead back to it. And so I really encourage all listeners , think about how you can use this week to ask a question and figure out how social studies , in some way , whether it's history , geography , economics , civics , can help you answer that question and know that that's what educators are focused on this week and every week is how they can best prepare all students to just be ready for the world around them , ready to engage. And just like they're engaged. Or maybe you're not engaged yet , use this week as a chance to think about what it means to engage in an active , active civic life.
S1: I've been speaking with Zachary Coat , executive director of the nonprofit Thinking Nation. Zach , thank you so much.
S3: Thanks for having me. Jade. It was a pleasure.
S1: And Larry Posca , the executive director for the National Council of Social Studies , Larry , thank you to you as well.
S2: Thank you again , Jade , for having me.
S1: Coming up , we'll talk about the challenges to getting students engaged in politics.
S5: Civics , governments. People have been told for years government doesn't work. So students walk into it thinking it's nothing. They really need to pay as much attention to. They want to work on stuff. That gets them jobs.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. Welcome back. You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. As we continue our conversation on the importance of civic education , Kpbs education reporter Marie Perez takes us inside the classroom , where students are learning about U.S. politics as presidential primaries unfold. Take a listen.
S6: The hardest part is the paper , not the presentation. And the papers were 75% of your grade.
S7: Vince Martinez is speaking to his students taking an Advanced Placement class in research. They are a mix of juniors and seniors at Otay Ranch High School. Many of them will be old enough to vote in November's presidential election.
S8: I think the adults in power are doing a really bad job.
S7: 17 year old Olivia metcalf is in the AP research class , working on an investigation of sexism and its impact on women's rights in the world today.
S8: I'm worried , but I also think if we band together and we try , we can make changes that can.
S6: Help some of you. You've already finished gathering your data.
S7: Olivia and her classmates are some of Mr. Martinez's most advanced students , but they are still part of the social media generation that is inundated with information from sources seeking to influence them.
S6: Their primary motive may be profit. Their primary motive may be content clicks. We like to call it clickbait , and they trust these voices and these sources to be true and factual when they're not.
S9: I'm investigating misinformation within politics.
S7: 17 year old Brady Peters was scrolling through his Instagram account , flooded with political campaign ads about the California primary and beyond , when he stumbled on his class research topic.
S9: It would go from like a small idea to more extreme , as you would be scrolling through everything.
S7: Brady has just completed collecting data from 114 students at his school in ninth through 12th grade. They all completed a survey after watching groups in pairs of political ad videos.
S9: Two videos based on abortion and the other two videos were based on book banning. One of the videos in each of the pair of two was false , but in the survey I did not tell the participants that one of the videos was false. I wanted to see how truthful they would think it was.
S10: After this series of decisive wins , Trump is optimistic.
S7: At Wilson Middle School in City Heights , there's a different kind of investigation happening as sixth grade students watched the daily CNN ten program. They try to figure out politics in the adult world and the people who are the biggest players. Michael Williams is their teacher.
S11: Most of the kids know the big names. They know who Joe Biden is. They know who Donald Trump is. They'll know who Vladimir Putin is.
S7: So Mr. Williams uses a strategy called scaffolding where he directs their learning , starting with concepts they understand and then providing less support as they master the content. After all , they're just a couple of presidential elections away from being eligible to vote.
S11: By 2032 , they'll be old enough to vote. They'll be old enough to participate in our democracy. So we want them to be thinking about it and thinking about it as active citizens.
S7: They are watching and listening. 12 year old Jason Ramirez says this.
S12: There's going to be an election about Donald Trump and Joe Biden and those like , I forgot who it is. Just like this girl saying like that Donald Trump is not going to make it like he's he's gonna lose. Nikki Haley , if I would like to pick , who would win , I say Donald Trump because a lot of bad stuff has been happening since Joe Biden was president.
S7: 11 year old Michelle Martinez is a Democratic supporter. If you were.
S13: Old enough to vote and you vote for.
S14: Joe Biden , Joe.
S13: Biden , tell me why.
S14: Because Donald Trump supports people from Mexico. What do you like.
S13:
S14:
S7: Students learning lessons in a way they can understand and finding truth on their academic journey to graduation. That's the goal in Mr. Martinez's class back at Otay Mesa High.
S6: School , I can talk about my limitations. I can talk about the implications. I can defend my choices. That's where we're going.
S7: Along with their grade , these students will get a vote of confidence to me. Perez , Kpbs news.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. You just heard education reporter M.G. Perez's story about how San Diego's K through 12 students are getting an education in civics and learning how to think critically. It's something Carl Luna creates programs around teaching students , from elementary school to college about politics and how to stay engaged. He's a political science professor emeritus at Mesa College and the University of San Diego. He's also the director of the Institute for Civil Civic Engagement. Professor Luna. Welcome back to Midday Edition.
S5: Thank you for having me back.
S1: Glad to have you here. So you know we just heard MKG Perez's feature where one of the concerns is that this generation is being inundated with social media campaigns seeking to influence them and their political views.
S5: I know my students are more engaged with social media than they are with probably coursework anymore. They spend more time on it. And , uh , studies are showing. And you're seeing this around the world. In all the liberal democracies , young people are being hit with all this misinformation , but it's presented in a really attractive format. There's a young woman in a 25 year old woman in Portugal who is a huge hit amongst the young people there on social media , and she's basically a front person for an authoritarian neofascist party. But she does clever stuff on TikTok and students would rather watch that than watch an old 64 year old professor talk about John Locke.
S1: And you've said before that people who are under 30 are really in a crisis of democracy.
S5: The most pivotal year in my life , I think , professionally , was 1999 , 2000. I was a Fulbright professor lecturing in , uh , the Russian Federation. I had the privilege of doing that. I got to see Vladimir Putin come to power , and I could see how a democracy could be subverted in about six months. Soup to nuts if you didn't take long lunches. So there's an older generation that appreciates democracy. Younger people have not seen the system pay off the way they would like it to good jobs , uh , being able to buy a house , they feel less powerful. And then you have the charlatans of politics who offer them power. If you support the demagogues. And that's having a resonance , particularly with non-college educated people under the age of 30.
S1: You've been teaching political science to high school students for the past three decades.
S5: By the time they graduate high school , they have to have completed a year of American government or an equivalent to that. Uh , the problem is it's not as well integrated , say , as like if you're doing a math or a sequence , you're going to do calculus or trigonometry in senior year. By sixth grade , they've got you on a track to be able to , every year , build your skill levels up. To be able to reach the level of math you need to reach. We don't approach civics quite that in such an organized fashion. And also , you know , just the branding , civics government people have been told for years government doesn't work. So students walk into it thinking it's nothing. They really need to pay as much attention to. They want to work on stuff that gets them jobs.
S1:
S5: I mean , every generation bemoans how little the last the new generation knows , uh , up until the point you discover they know a lot more about the things that matters to them than we do. So it's not that they don't understand politics , it's that they don't like the system. They don't get engaged in it. And instead , either they drop out of politics or they become focused on particular issues. They want to try to redress without having a good understanding of the whole background idea of why we're doing democracy in the first place. We don't really teach democracy 101. We teach government in history.
S1:
S5: Uh , matter of fact , the problem is , though , they're so engaged in trying to get into college that a lot of these things become box checks just to move on to the next issue. It would probably be nice if you could have students start maybe in fourth or fifth grade working on a project and then work on it for years , do a little bit every year , do a practicum because nothing in politics gets resolved like an old West Wing show. You'd resolve a problem in 42 minutes. It's a lifelong struggle to make things better , but it's a struggle worth engaging it.
S4: Um , you.
S1: Know , the Institute of Civil Civic Engagement is involved in a few projects related to civic education. One of them has you working with a university across the Atlantic. Can you talk more about that ? Yeah.
S5: It was my good fortune to , uh , make connection with , uh , Doctor Dirk Lange from the University of Hanover. He runs an institute on citizenship there and also in Vienna. And we've been talking and in the. Various stages of pulling together different ideas of how civics is being taught on their side of the Atlantic , on our side of the Atlantic , and looking at resources , massive open online classes that you can bring in for supplement for for teachers , more resources to help , uh , middle school teachers , the high school teachers be able to really engage their students , but do understand one of the reasons they do what they're working on this in Germany is they have the same problem with younger people disaffected from the system , falling for the siren song of authoritarians who say , you give me power , you'll get power too. There is no secret sauce yet , but we're hoping from the discussion we can find a few things that may work better.
S1: What can we learn from civic education in Europe that could be helpful for students learning here.
S5: And in Europe ? For the most part , they put more time , uh , into civic education. Uh , Germany in particular , having , uh , had its experience in the 20th century , pays a lot of attention to try to get students to understand the consequences of politics. But even that being said , the farther you get away from that period , they're discovering 18 , 19 , 20 year olds , uh , are increasingly concerned about jobs , housing , uh , the future. And even there , they're having a harder time making people understand the past. Remember the old line , if you don't remember it , you repeat it. We're seeing that , unfortunately , in Europe , uh , we're seeing it here. So how you can raise that that the awareness of the importance of politics. Uh , that's something we are working with our , uh , colleagues across the Atlantic to try to find a better way to do it.
S1: Earlier , you mentioned the 25 year old influencer in Portugal and the growing trend of authoritarianism among young people in Europe.
S5: And the people that feel powerless are really much more vulnerable to misinformation , disinformation , manipulation , not because , you know , they're dumber than people go to college or anything. They just are looking for a lifeline that society is not providing them. Uh , and until you can bring people into the game and show them they have a stake in the game , they start to gravitate toward people who claim they're going to knock over the game. Hmm.
S1:
S5: You have to recognize what's causing those feelings and then try to work to get them beyond it. Now you can blame people for the consequence of their actions when those feelings lead to things which are democracy challenging , like on January 6th , doesn't matter why you did it , it has to be shown. You just don't do that. But then you got to reach out to everybody else and say , look , the system's got problems , to be sure , but name calling the other side , always making the other side look like they're evil so your side can win. If you did that in a football game , baseball game , uh , it would totally ruin the experience for everybody. And that's what's happening in our national democratic game. People , because they're angry , are wanting to burn down the system without really knowing what they're going to replace it with.
S4: You know , I want.
S1: To talk about civil discourse , since you mentioned that the most recent state of the Union address might be a good representation of where we're at.
S5: This has been replaced by , again , our viral social media age , where people are more interested in trying to get that social media moment , which they can run again and again. Uh , you do it for political power. Oh , you do it for monetization. There was the old line from Watergate follow the money , and you've got a terrible , noxious blend of disinformation and anti-democratic behavior , which actually makes a chunk of money for people , which then feeds its own ecosystem. I don't see a counter narrative in social media , from from pro-democracy advocates. It still becomes , you know , Chamber of Commerce dinners and the occasional classroom lecture , which I don't think is enough. Hmm.
S1:
S5: What are the three branches of governments , how a bill becomes a law. All the old Billy , the Bill , schoolhouse Rock stuff you need to teach a narrative about. Yes , America is a flawed democracy , but a flawed democracy is better than. On democracy and show how we can use our system over time to make things better. And things are better today than they were 200 years ago , a hundred years ago. We need the optimism of civic education to combat all of the negativity , which can either drive people to not participate or to look for cheap solutions. Hires one person to be the strongman to make it all better.
S4: I want to.
S1: Point to a recent op ed from Teen Vogue. It argued that , you know , Biden didn't do enough to respond to the demands of young people in his address.
S5: According to some polls , Donald Trump is doing better with people under 30 than the even Joe Biden is now those polls. You know , you can look at the numbers and quibble with them. But even if that's beginning to blip , there's a sign that people are disaffected. The older generation baby boomers have taken too much , leaving too little for them. The Biden campaign needs a narrative , and I don't think an 81 year old is necessarily the best venue for that. Again , this is where you have to bring in some political equivalent of a Taylor Swift to be able to reach out. And of course , Taylor Swift's broadly conceived as being old compared to a lot of people that are kids in their teens. You need teens talking to teens. You need students talking to students. Peer to peer is the biggest influence on , uh , young adults , as we all probably remember from our time in middle school and high school. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. I mean.
S1: And let me ask you this. I mean , when you look at the Electoral College , you look at voter suppression laws , you even look at how many barriers there are just for college students to vote. I mean , these issues have been around for a very long time. This isn't something that just happened overnight. So the idea that the system is not working for young people , um , has been around for a long time too. And yet many would say it hasn't been addressed. What do you think needs to happen in order to pull young people back in to get them engaged ? Yeah.
S5: Jade , you have a perfect point with that. This is not like we haven't been discussing this since the time I was in college. Uh , we have a political system which is out of date. It has all kinds of anti-democratic mechanisms in it on purpose. That's how it was designed. It was never supposed to be based on popular will. So that's something as a national conversation , we have to have and the people who should be really represented in that , or the people who had lived the longest under any changes to the system. Young Americans , we have become so afraid of change. We're constantly looking to the past. The idea that , oh , we did a better back in the 50s , the 40s , the 30. No , we didn't do it better back in the 50s. Think of the role of women. Think of the role of people of color in the 50s. Uh , young people need to look at the system and say it doesn't work , and then have the skills and tools provided to them to fix it , to make it work better in the future. But yeah , the overall system doesn't work as well , but it's still a better system than what you would see. If we get rid of elections and go to an authoritarian system.
S1: I've been speaking with Carl Luna , professor of political science at Mesa College and director of the Institute of Civil Civic Engagement and University of San Diego. Professor Luna , as always , thanks so much for your insight and thanks for joining us.
S5: Thank you.
S1: That's our show for today. Don't forget to watch Evening Edition tonight at five for in-depth reporting on San Diego issues. We'll be back tomorrow at noon. And if you ever miss a show , you can find the Midday Edition podcast on all platforms. I'm Jade Hindman. Thanks for listening , everyone.
