S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , we are three months into prop 36 , where penalties for certain drug and theft offenses come with jail time. So what's been the outcome so far ? This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. So proposition 36 took effect in December , and since then , the San Diego County District Attorney's Office has filed more than 300 cases under the new law. But questions over whether or not San Diego County's troubled jails can handle the influx of inmates circulate. Well , joining me now to break this all down is Kelly Davis. She is a reporter on the watchdog team at the San Diego Union-Tribune. Kelly , welcome back to Midday Edition. Hi.
S2: Hi. Thank you. Jade.
S1: So prop 36 rolls back another law , which is prop 47. Remind us what that law did in 2014. And what's changed now ? Yeah.
S2: So so prop 47 changed certain crimes from felonies to misdemeanors. And most significant among them was drug possession and petty theft. And the goal was to redirect money that would have been spent to prosecute and incarcerate people , um , to , to take that savings and use it for mental health programs , substance abuse programs , uh , initiatives to reduce school dropout rates. You know , just things to keep people out of prison. In jail.
S1:
S2:
S1: How successful were they in redirecting that money to programs.
S2: Well , I think , um , you know , what a lot of folks noticed and what the point two is , prop 47 helped reduce the prison population. Prop 47 helped reduce the jail population. And and so I think in seeing that , you know , that there's always the argument that , that incarcerating someone is going to make it more difficult for them to get help when they're , when they're released. So I think keeping people out of prison , in jail , um , you know , and having having more of these programs available , I think , I think that was seen as , as a big success for the law.
S1: In November , California voters passed prop 36 , and later this hour will actually hear from a vocal opponent of prop 36. But what do supporters of the law generally argue.
S2: So they were arguing that that under prop 47 you saw retail crime go up. You saw fewer people take advantage of drug court , which is a diversion program for folks with drug addiction. Um , and so it was kind of like , uh , you know , people were taking advantage of these , these reduced penalties , uh , you know , in California , under under prop 47 , uh , if you stole 900 , uh , under $950 , uh , from from a store , target , Macy's , whatever , that would be a misdemeanor. So , so the proponents of prop 36 were arguing that there were people who would go into a store and kind of keep tabs on what they were shoplifting , and just make sure that they stayed under that $950 amount. So , so really , really , the the argument was that that prop 47 was just too soft on crime and something with more teeth was needed.
S1:
S2: Um , certain products are in lock cases , um , with the argument being that these were popular items to steal and , you know , da San Diego , da Summer Stephan , uh , she was a big proponent of prop 36. You know , she held press conferences about it. But if you if you look at data nationwide , um , retail theft has been up everywhere , not just San Diego , not just California. And , you know , I think , um , we're still figuring out what motivated that , but but , you know , economic hardship was was a big reason. And the ease of selling stolen goods online , what became , I think , a big reason , um , you know , you hear you hear stories about homeless folks being paid a little bit of money to run into target , grab a bunch of laundry detergent and run out. Um , and then somebody will turn around and sell that in an online marketplace. And , uh , some folks I talked to for this story really said , you know , law enforcement needs to get a handle on these , these online , um , kind of , uh , not really black market , but , you know , these these folks who are making money out of reselling these these , uh , shoplifted items. Um.
S3: Um.
S1: You looked into the number of arrests under prop 36 since December.
S2: Um , you know , cases filed by the Da. And we found this as this is really about drug possession , which I think is no surprise to anyone. Um , so , uh , since the law took effect on December 18th , for every one person charged with theft under prop 36 , there were three people charged with drug possession. Um. Looking at these exact numbers , you know , between December 18th and , uh , February 8th was what we got gathered data for. There were 333 cases of DA's office filed under prop 36. 240 of those cases were for drug possession and 93 were for theft. Hmm.
S3: Hmm.
S1: Well , prop 36 brings tougher penalties for repeat crimes.
S2: And , um , you know , we found that a lot of people who had been arrested were homeless. Um , there's mentions in their court files about them being transient or homeless. Um , I think of the cases I looked at , only two involved people who were , uh , repeatedly had been repeatedly arrested for shoplifting. Uh , several defendants appeared to have mental health issues. Um , you know , we know this one man had been referred to mental health court , uh , to determine whether he was , uh , competent to stand , uh , to stand trial. Uh , another man we found had been placed on suicide watch in the central jail. You know , and even in some of the cases , addiction was often the underlying cause. So there was a man who was homeless , and he stole a PlayStation controller from target , and he told police he was going to use it to he was going to sell it and use it to buy drugs. Um , and then another man , this is this story kind of really , um , uh , was the most compelling for me. He was stealing hair clippers to to cut his hair because he felt he , you know , he was homeless. He felt he was looking a bit ragged. Um , and he stole a phone charger , you know , for personal use. Uh , I think it came to $91 total. He was caught , um , almost immediately after he left the store , and he told , um. He told police. He told a probation officer he used fentanyl daily. but. But in his history , he had successfully completed a treatment program three years ago. But once he was off probation , kind of that monitoring and that support system , he slipped back into homelessness , slipped back into drug use. And there's a quote from him from the probation report , and he said , I just need to get back to my therapy and treatment. Hmm.
S3: Hmm. You know , I mean.
S1: That that speaks to a much larger issue in that , um , you know , when people are coming off of drugs or any type of addiction , um , their path to sobriety is really a journey. And not just an and not just an endpoint. You know , it is a journey that they , you know , that they go through and deal with and cope with for the rest of their lives.
S2: Yeah , yeah. No , it was it was really surprising to see how many , how many people who were arrested for drug possession that this just defined their life for several years. For a couple of them , it was decades. They just were cycling through the system. And , um , and I don't know , I don't think that's the fault of prop 47 because a lot of them were pre prop 47. Um , you know , I think prop 36 , um , could offer the opportunity to , to look at , you know , how how we offer treatment to certain populations and , and what is the best approach. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Your story includes comments from District Attorney Summer Stephan who campaigned for prop 36.
S2: Um , you know , like I said , that's something that that we saw as well. You know , she acknowledged that that the court system , prosecutors , public defenders all need to join together. And there is a task force of of everyone involved in the criminal justice system. And they really need to figure out the best approach to expanding access to treatment. And she described this really as as a work in progress.
S1:
S2: Since Covid , they dropped from around 5800 people per day to now about 3900 people per day. And we the population has ticked up a bit. Um , you know , I've been looking at it every day and it'll go up and they'll go back down. It'll go up or go back down. Um , but we found a lot of people were released , um , to supervised probation. They weren't held in jail pending trial. And so I think it's the the probation department who who might really be feeling the brunt of this , this new law and that might be , you know , that might be the folks that that , um , you know , are going to be maybe responsible for the , the success or failure of it.
S1: While prop 47 , that previous prop , brought with it funding for mental health treatment. Prop 36 does not. Is that right ? Yes.
S2: That's right. That's a huge issue. Um , you know , in , uh , 20 , 23 , uh , prop 47 brought in a savings of $93 million that was redirected to treatment. Um , prop 36 came with no funding source. So. And we're seeing people who are in need of of probably inpatient drug treatment , but there are no beds available. Um , you know , I noticed in a couple of the , the court files , um , for , for the small number of people who had to stay in jail , um , there would be a note in the file that said , um , transfer to residential uh RTP residential treatment program as soon as a bed becomes available. And I kind of followed those cases through and and as far as I know , um , no bed has become available for those couple of folks. And because prop 36 changes some aspects of prop 47. Too complicated to to to get into that. But just I think the bottom line is that it actually reduces the funding that's available under prop 47. Um , and so , uh , you know , folks who are opponents of , of prop 36 are really pointing to that as , as a huge drawback of , of prop 36. Um.
S3: Um.
S1: Well , San Diego County has an overcrowding issue in its jails. There's currently a class action lawsuit against the county over those conditions. Talk to me about about that and where prop 36 fits in.
S2: So the the jails aren't necessarily overcrowded. There's a couple that are at or slightly over capacity , but then there are others that are way under , like the women's jail is way under capacity. Um , so they're not overcrowded in the way we , we might think of overcrowding. Uh , the issue is more that there is often overcrowding in special units , um , where folks who are suffering from long term addiction might end up. So the psychiatric unit , um , the medical unit , there's also a new Ada unit that was created because of this lawsuit. And , uh , not too long ago , several months ago , it people were , um , the attorneys and the class action suit heard that people were sleeping on the floor in that unit because there weren't enough beds available. So there's concern that that that these more , um , special the housing units for vulnerable populations , um , those might fill up and , and treatment or oversight might not be as effective.
S1: Well , we're just a couple of months into prop 36 being in effect.
S2: Um , you know , I know there's a there's a hope that folks will opt for a drug court , uh , which is a diversion program. Um , you know , the number of people in drug court really dropped when 47 passed. Um , so there's the hope that more folks will take advantage of of that. Um , it will clear your record if you complete , um , drug court. Um , but it's a very structured program. And so it might not be the best option for someone who's homeless or someone who's struggling with the the cognitive effects of long term addiction. Um , you know , and then folks I talked to said that there's a real hope that the state legislature will will realize that there's a need for more treatment beds and will find a way to provide funding for appropriate services.
S1: I've been speaking with Kelly Davis. She is a reporter on the watchdog team at the San Diego Union-Tribune. Kelly , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you. Jane.
S1: Coming up , the opposition to prop 36 and ideas on what could work better.
S4: That problem cannot be arrested out of them. It can't be legislated out of them. We need compassion. Which was missing in prop 36.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Today we're talking about prop 36 , the newly passed crime measure that makes certain drug and theft crimes felonies. The nonprofit Californians for Safety and Justice estimates that prop 36 will add 130,000 more people to California jails each year. San Diego County is facing a class action lawsuit over conditions in its seven jails. So what could prop 36 and related measures mean for safety within those jails ? I'm joined now by Yusef Miller. He works with San Diego families whose relatives have died in jails , and he's the executive director of Saving Lives in Custody California. Yusuf , welcome back to Midday Edition.
S4: Thank you for having me again.
S1: Always glad to have you here. So you were you were vocal about your position on prop 36 before it passed.
S4: We were very vocal with , um , pillars of the community. Uh , an organization in San Diego County , also with , um , all of us are none speaking out against prop 36 because it would just exacerbate the issues that we already have. Uh , one of the issues that everyone knows that we have is the In-custody death rate. The In-custody death rate a couple years ago was just off the charts , and that was from the population we have thus far. This population was so not well supervised and unkept that a class action lawsuit like you mentioned earlier , came down and asked the federal judge to allow inspections on seven different items. You know , Ada , uh , safety , hygiene , so many different , uh , issues. So we're going to take that issue and influx all these inmates to an issue which would only increase the death rate , increase the neglect , and increase the pain to individuals and others in their families.
S1:
S4: I think most voters were just scared into voting for prop 36 because of all the snatch and grabs that people see. And magically , once , uh , prop 36 passed. I have not seen those snatch and grabs since , so it appears to be an act of theater to spread fear for people to vote for prop 36. And as you look around , you see all of the homelessness and the majority of homeless individuals or houseless individuals. They have mental health issues that that are unaddressed , and that problem cannot be arrested out of them. It can't be legislated out of them. We need compassion , which was missing in prop 36.
S1: And so since that that is the your view and a lot of you and it's what the data , uh , show.
S4: And as long as we sweep them off our streets , we don't care what happens to them. So when we we see downtown and we have guests and visitors come in , they don't want to see the homelessness crisis. It's not a crisis of the individual. It's a crisis of housing inventory , um , livable wages. It's a crisis of rents , and it's creating these homeless people. But we don't want to see them. We don't want our guests to see them. People who are addicted on the streets. And they're probably sleep because they're so high. We want to get rid of them. So what better thing to do in some people's minds is to put them in a cell to incarcerate them. But you can't incarcerate your way out of this issue. It's just going to exacerbate the issue. And like my friends , um , Gina Burns and , uh , Cheryl Canton say we need care , not cages. That's a common slogan for Moms Against Torture. And treat me , don't mistreat me. And the me is for mental illness. So treat me , don't mistreat me. Uh , care not cages. And that's the compassion part that's missing in prop 36.
S1: You know , you said you can't incarcerate your way out of this issue. Now , prop 36 seeks to limit retail thefts and drug crimes.
S4: So instead of putting our funding into incarceration , we should put our funding into programs that help with addiction , mental health , and a lot of the people who were arrested for a lot of thefts said they were stealing to feed their addiction. So if you hit it on the front end , then you have a reduction. If you wait till the back end , you're not really doing anything. You're not helping the community. So we need programs to redirect and reallocate our funding into programs that prevent people from becoming involved in the justice system in the first place.
S1: Now some people are going to I hear what you're saying , some people are going to hear that , and they're going to be like , what about those smash and grabs at the Louis Vuitton store or coach or whatever ? I don't know , those those clearly aren't for , uh , drug addiction or.
S4: Yeah , they would say that. And it's amazing how that prop that started becoming a great issue when prop 36 was created. And then when prop 36 was passed , it disappeared. To me , it looks like a theater , but let's address it in reality. People who commit crimes. We need to have a , um , alternative to incarceration. We need to have people retrained for for school people that that need training for jobs. We need they still because there's a need to fill a gap to fill with rents going up. So high income is being so low. People are trying to make ends meet. If we can fix that , that would reduce the amount of crime. And you know , people may boo that , right. But if you look in all countries that have a low crime rate , one thing they have is well-funded education and a livable wage. It is a reduction of crime that we put our money where our mouth is and our money is not in safety. Our money in our mouth is in incarceration. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Earlier this hour , we spoke to reporter Kelly Davis about the number of drug charges far outnumbering theft charges under prop 36 in San Diego so far.
S4: Nobody wants to be a thief. You know , for the most part , then nobody wants to be an addict. Nobody grew up in. They were seven years old saying , I can't wait to be an addict on the street. We need compassionate solutions in those Compassionate Solutions programs , especially for our youth , because our youth are aging into an area where they can be locked up forever if they not put on a straight path. And people are forgetting in prop 36 about the youth component , the youth impact of prop 36.
S3: Yeah , well.
S1: Go ahead and speak.
S4: More on. Yes. Well , on concerning youth , we're already underfunded in youth. We're underfunded in adult prisons and adult detention as well. But let's look at this. Our precious resource , the youth they have. Um. deputies are not coming to work. They have a problem with their workforce. The. We have problems with programming. Kids going to school. This is hardening youth into a life of crime. Nobody cares about me. I have to struggle and do what I need to do. We can't even make those things come to fruition. And now , am I talking about only San Diego County ? No. There's some issues in San Diego County. We had other overdoses in youth detention a couple of years ago. We had a death in youth detention. But if you look at our neighbor in LA , they have youth detentions that are always in the process of closing because they're not habitable for human to be in. This is going to get worse. And for our youth , this is an absolute shame and a critical crisis in our in our state. So prop 36 , we look at the adults and we can say , oh , I hope they get what they deserve. The , the the adults get what they deserve. In the same vein , those snatches and grabs , There's some youth in there. There's an other issues where addiction and homelessness there that aged out of the foster care system. Yes. Thank you. Those people are now in jeopardy of being wrapped up into this underfunded , broken system that has there's going to be exacerbated and they're going to fall through the cracks.
S1: You work with families who've lost loved ones in San Diego jails , in San Diego County jails.
S4: I'll tell you , the families who have lost loved ones already , they're stressed out that other families will go through the pain that they're going through. The Cerner family , the the Weddle family , who was , uh , the mother and daughter of Saxe and Rodriguez , um , Gilbert Gil , Kevin Mills , uh , Fogelman , Mr. Fogelman , um , Van Tine family. I can keep going on and on. And just recently we had the lawsuit dropped for , um , for Mr. , uh , Brandon Yates with just the lawsuit for the death In-custody death of Brandon Yates , who was misclassified , put in the wrong cell , and he was beaten to death. So if all these people are flex , then we're going to have people jammed tight together , and it's going to increase this type of situation. So these these families that I mentioned and many more Omar Moreno Arroyo and and so many more that have been watching what's going on with prop 36. They go like , oh no , our family group is going to grow. This is one family we don't want to grow. And the families are really terrified of what's what's happening. And then our family members who still have loved ones incarcerated who are already not receiving proper mental health care , like Cheryl Canton and her children and Gina Burns and her children. These are the founders of Moms Against Torture and Treat Me , Don't Mistreat me. and we're trying to keep their young and all. Also , other people were trying to keep their children alive so that they don't switch over to the other family group. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: In 2019 , Governor Gavin Newsom committed to preventing jail deaths in California.
S4: Uh , we here in San Diego County. We have been responsible for two bills that became law , uh , SB 519 , which created a director of In-custody death review and two chairs to the BSc , the Board of State and Community Corrections. One is supposed to oversee the medical department of all the jails and one for mental health. Those are steps in the right direction. We still need to fill one of those seats , but we there are steps in the right direction , but they're going to slow. So we we need to make more bills and these class action suits. We need to make sure that everyone knows and everyone participates in in raising the alarm that these class action suits need to be be knocked out one , not one by one , or as fast as possible to make sure that we have a habitable situation for people who are incarcerated. Most of these people have not committed a a life sentence crime , but when they get in jail , they therefore a week or so and they pay with their lives. This is not proper. And this is if they paid for their lives before their first day in court. That means they died innocent. Because in our country you're innocent until proven guilty. And if you have a person who dies within five days , never been to court one week. Never been to court. Sometimes months have never been to court. They die from neglect , or they die from being put in the wrong cell with the wrong person , or not watch the way they should watch and they hang themselves. These people , they there was a waste of life which could have been avoided. And this is why San Diego was on the charts for the whole state of California.
S1:
S4: We need funding in housing. Um , in , in , uh , in rent. You know , so these these issues , these three issues cause people to be homeless. And if you're not on drugs in your homeless , you will be on something just to deal with your reality , you know ? So a lot of people think they're on the street because they're drug addicts. But what we found is that people became drug addicts on the street to deal with their reality. So if we can deal with the issue before they get there on the front end , give people a living , livable wage , make rents affordable , affordable housing , and we have proper access to for everyone to mental health care. This will see a a more permanent trend of of a downward spiral when it comes to incarceration. Now , there are people who are out there who need to be locked up. I'm not saying all criminals are innocent. There are people who need to be locked up. And I admit that. But the the the average person is being swept up in this fear of crime , and we're incarcerating people who shouldn't be our adults and our children.
S1: You know , just as easy as it was for prop 36 to make it onto the ballot to be passed.
S4: No matter what we say , we look where the money goes and the money goes to incarceration. It does not go to mental health. Let's take mental health for example. We have plenty of mental health technicians and psychologists , psychiatrists. Why don't they work for the county ? The county doesn't pay enough. So we have made a political will decision that we're not going to fund mental health. We've done that. So now we have to train law enforcement to be a mental health provider. And the county , the highest mental health facility in the county is the jail. This is reversed. This is topsy turvy. It should not happen this way. So we have put our invested our money where our actual words go , which is incarceration of our communities. Now , let me be balanced here. I've been studying and discussing with law enforcement in the jails to discuss programs that need to happen in the jails , and I see a lot of programs that are positive in some of the jails. For example , if we look at Las Colinas , we have a lot of positive things going on , but they're not universal in all the jails. And that's the problem. Prop 36 is not universal for the whole state because some counties can afford mental health programs , some counties can. Some counties have a viable youth detention as as far as that goes , but in some counties are failing and suffering closure because kids can go to the restroom at night and they have to relieve themselves in a corner like an animal. We expect those people to come out and be a functioning human beings after we treat them like this. So as a as a whole system for the state , we are failing and there are pockets of truly interested , truly motivated people to make a difference. But we don't have enough of them. And we as the saving lives in custody , California and the North County Equity and Justice Coalition and others , we're trying to make sure that that change in that needle moves so that we , the people who are in custody , can survive while we work on Decarceration , we're looking for a drop in recidivism due to compassionate program outreach.
S1: I've been speaking with Yusef Miller. He's the executive director of Saving Lives in Custody , California. Yusef , thank you so much for being here.
S4: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
