S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hyneman. For today's show , we are talking with award winning author Jesmyn Ward ahead of her appearance at the Writers Symposium by the sea. But to top our show , we'll have the latest on rising flu cases across the county. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation at. The annual Writer Symposium by the sea kicks off at Point Loma Nazarene University this week. This year's lineup features novelist Jesmyn Ward. Jesmyn is one of the most celebrated writers in American fiction today. Two of her novels , sing , unburied , Sing and Salvage the Bones , have won the prestigious National Book Award. Her other work includes the memoir Men We Reaped and her most recent novel , Let Us Descend. She is also a MacArthur fellow and the youngest person to be awarded the Library of Congress Prize for American Fiction , and she'll be appearing at the symposium tomorrow , February 26th. Jasmine , welcome to mid-day.
S2: It's good to be here.
S1: So glad to have you. So the theme for this year's symposium is Writing That Redeems.
S2: Right. Like they're doing the best that they can with what they have. And I don't know. And I think that in all the stories I tell that those those characters are redeemed in some way , you know , because either they sort of realize something about their lives or they find a different direction in their lives or , you know , just I think sometimes just in the fact that they are able to tell their stories and share their stories , that that is redeeming in some , in some aspect. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely. You know , many of your books are set in this fictional Mississippi town of Voir Savage , which is actually inspired by where you grew up. I mean , can you talk about the role of place in your stories and how you've really brought this town to life over the course of your work ? Mhm.
S2: Yeah. I mean , it was important to me when I first , when I first began writing to , to avoid writing , you know , specifically about my town. Right. I didn't want it to be called because my little hometown is called Delisle. So I didn't want to write specifically about Duluth. I wanted to write about a fictional version of DeLillo , because I felt like it gave me a certain amount of freedom. But at the same time , even though I'm writing about a fictional , you know , sort of version of my town , I'm Still , I think being sort of loyal and honest in a way , and like acknowledging the responsibility that I have to write about the truths , you know , that , like , I don't know that inform the way that people live in my hometown , you know , I mean , so that's why I write about things like hurricanes and natural disasters and generational poverty and , you know , sort of what that does to a , um , to a person. That's why I also write about incarceration. So , so , yeah , I think , you know , that the multiple realities that come from living in a place like this , that they inform , you know , who my characters are , what they've lived through , what they've seen , the choices that they think that they have and the choices that they make in their in their lives. Right.
S1: Right. And how do you approach that in your storytelling ? Because , you know , as you've mentioned , many of your characters have this complicated relationship with their hometown and its history.
S2: Um , you know , I just , I don't know , I mean , I , I feel like it has it , it has to be acknowledged in the work because that's the kind of fiction that I write. Right ? Like that's the kind of fiction that I'm invested in , in writing , like fiction , that sort of sinks into a time and a place with a character and really allows the reader to inhabit that , that moment with them. Right. So I try to make the character and the and the place that they live in , in the circumstances that they're living through , as real and as present as I as I can. And I think that acknowledging , you know , all of those sort of like outside issues , that that is part I think , of making the characters is , you know , sort of real and is present as you can.
S1: Um , and your books , they're grounded in these very real issues , but they're also steeped in magic and spirituality. Grief. Loss. The afterlife. Sing. Unburied. Sing has this element of magical realism that can be deeply felt through the story.
S2: It's something that I've always been curious about. And I feel like it's something that I've been writing towards for a long time. But , you know , honestly , I feel like writing about sort of the supernatural or the unexpected or writing stories where there's this , there's an element of spirit. I think that that is that it's better reflective of the community that I grew up in and the ways that the people around me understood the world. Right. Like I have some sort of stories right from like my great grandparents , one of my great grandmothers would always tell us this story about how how our great grandfather died. And then after he died , he came back to her as a ghost and told her never to get married again , never to marry again. Right. And she she didn't marry. And she told us that story over and over again. And as a kid , like I heard that and and I just took it to be true. Right ? I understood that that was the way that the world worked , right ? That even after people that you love died or passed away , that they that doesn't that didn't mean that they , you know , just evaporated into the ether. They could come back , they could still communicate with you. They could still , I don't know , inform your life in different ways. And so , yeah , I don't , I don't know , I , I feel like exploring that sort of spiritual or supernatural element in my work is another way for me to be honest about the kind of people that I'm writing about , you know , and honest about , like the realities of their lives. Because , you know , many of the people who are like the people I write about , like people in my community and people in my family , they do believe that there's something more , you know , out there. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , it's amazing how connected black people are to spirituality even even despite the transatlantic slave trade.
S2: Right , right , right. You know. Right.
S1: Right. Because that was something that was very much a part of I won't say religion but spirituality across many African tribes and countries. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. I mean I , I think that was it was really important for me to explore that in my last novel to like incorporate a certain , you know , I don't know , writing about this , writing that engaged with spirit or that acknowledged spirits and different worlds , because I feel like that belief that people had right in the fact that there was something beyond what they were experiencing like that enabled them to survive , right ? That experience and also to thrive in spite of that experience. So yeah.
S1: Well , I mean , take us back to when your love for reading and writing first blossomed.
S2: But it wasn't that kid. But I wanted I wanted to read so badly. So then when I finally learned how to read in first grade , I immediately loved it. I think because I had wanted it , I just wanted it so much. And so I was , of course , I was a reader before I was a writer. And when I was young , you know , uh , books just seemed magical to me. You know , it seemed like the authors were , you know , um , doing , you know , sort of magic when they're in , you know , creating worlds and creating characters and making you feel for those characters in those worlds and , you know , really immersing you in an experience. Um , and so I think I had that desire to write , you know , from a very young age , but I didn't fully commit to it until after I graduated from college. And I , you know , at that time that was sort of I was I was reading , uh , you know , a lot of the writers from the Harlem Renaissance , I was reading , you know , Alice Walker and Toni Morrison and Suzuki Shanghai. Right. So I was reading all these brilliant , you know , black American writers and , um , I don't know. And they were they were , I think , providing me with a model , multiple models , you know , for , for how to be a writer. Right. And a writer , I guess , who looked like me. Right ? And who came from who came from the sort of background like I did right in this country. Yeah.
S1: Talk more about that. I mean , how did you see your own experiences reflected in their work ? You know , the work of Toni Morrison and Alice Walker and so on. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Well , I mean , I , you know , I , I think that one of the things that was most remarkable to me about all of their work , all the not only black American writers , but writers of color , like I remember loving Louise Erdrich work when I was younger. I also loved Gabriel Garcia marquez , his work when I was younger. Right. I'm speaking broadly , like in high school and then in college. But I think that one of the things that drew me to their work , and that was so remarkable about their work , is that when I read them , I feel like I was seeing people who resemble the kind of people that I grew up with , uh , the kind of people who are members of my family , kind of people who were in my community. Right. And I was like , seeing those same sort of people , like , on the page for the first time. And that was really powerful for me , I think , because one of the reasons that I even like committed to writing was because into telling stories was because I had experienced an act of erasure. Right ? So when I was in my early 20s , my brother was 19 and he was killed by a drunk driver. Right. And the drunk driver who killed him was never held accountable for his death. And that drunk driver was charged with the only thing that that drunk driver was like , charged with was and convicted of was leaving the scene of an accident. Right. And that felt like it felt like an act of erasure. Right ? It was If he didn't , he didn't matter. Right ? As if his as if he hadn't even , you know , as he , as if he hadn't lived. Right. And so after my brother passed , I wanted to push back against that in my work , right , and in my art. And I wanted to specifically write about , write about my brother , write about kids like my brother , write about , you know , I think all the people that I grew up with and knew and loved and saw around me who had been erased , maybe not as dramatically as my brother had , but who had suffered erasure. Different kinds of erasure. And I think , like all of those writers that I named earlier who I found , you know , in my late teens and my early 20s , they showed me that it could be done right , that that , you know , that the people , you know , like the people I love and like the people you know , who I still love , right ? And who I feel a certain responsibility to represent in my work like that. I could write about them and they could be complicated and whole people on the page , and I could and if I if I worked hard enough at it and if I did it well enough , I could make someone who is a complete stranger right to this , to those sorts of people , like I could I could inspire some empathy in those people. Like , I could make those people feel some empathy , um , and feel with , you know , the , the people that I write about. Yeah.
S1: That makes so much sense. Um , yeah. Part of the reason I became a journalist. Yeah.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Um , yeah. Yeah. But I'm so sorry to hear about your brother and what happened there. You know , your book Let Us Descend is. It's a historical fiction. Um , and born from a piece of American history that had been erased , specifically the role that New Orleans played in the U.S. slave trade. You know , today , the the erasure of history , specifically black history and and really anything that underscores the morally bankrupt aspects of American imperialism sort of continues to be under attack.
S2: I mean , I in a way , I feel like , you know , it's one of the reasons that I really wanted to write letters to send because , you know , I grew up , you know , in Mississippi , both sides of my family have lived here for generations , right ? Most of us existing pretty close to the poverty poverty line. Right. And when I was growing up , because I didn't learn the full story of , like , the full scope of American history , right. Um , I , you know , probably like many kids , um , you know , growing up in the 80s , in the 1990s , in America , especially in the South. Right. Um , and because I learned this sort of truncated version of American history , I think it made it very difficult for me to begin to understand why generations of my family , you know , had been living in the South in poverty or , you know , why we were on government assistance when I grew up , or why , you know , while other kids seem to have so much , at least , you know , from what I could see from the outside , um , in some ways we had so little. And then that colored , you know , that that informed everything. I mean , I remember , you know , applying for colleges when I was in high school , right. And , and getting this pushback from some of my schoolmates who were white saying , oh , the only reason that you got into this school and this school is because of affirmative action , right ? But because I , you know , knew nothing about or knew little right about what affirmative action was established to redress. Mhm. I couldn't push back against that. The , the narrative that was being imposed on me. Right. And so I , I don't know , I mean I , I'm a big proponent and this is why again why I wanted to write letters to send. Because I'm a big proponent of I think books are keys. And I think that books are keys because they , they open , you know , doors to knowledge that helps us understand better understand our , our existence. Right. They help us to better understand , help us to better understand the world that we live in and help us to better navigate the world that we live in. Right. Mhm. Um , and so I wanted to write letters to send because I wanted to give people , I wanted to give the kid that I was at least one key to sort of better understand that reality. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And then , you know , to , like you said before , for others , it it helps build empathy. And it answers the question of why , you know. Right. So many people. Right. I'd love to hear more about lettuce descend because this novel is so rich with your storytelling and also has this connection to Dante's Inferno , which is one of my favorite works.
S2: It was actually sort of by chance , in a way. Um , I was walking past my bookshelf and that particular bookshelf that I was walking past has , you know , multiple volumes of poetry. And one that caught my eye was Dante's Inferno. And perhaps part of the reason that it caught my eye was because , you know , I wanted anise , who is the enslaved girl who's at the heart of the story of lettuce descend like I wanted her to have access to stories and knowledge outside of her own experience. Right. And so I thought , well , if there are other young people in this household , right. Her half sisters , right , who are fully white , who are being educated , right , then maybe she can have access to knowledge outside of her experience , like through their education. And so I just saw the inferno on my bookshelf one day and I thought , well , I could see , you know , these sort of young women , like , it would make sense that that is something that they would learn maybe. Right. And so I picked up the Inferno and I started rereading it. Right. Because the last time I read it , I was it was like 20 years ago. And so I started to reread it , and I already knew that Anna's journey would involve being sold south right from the Upper South to the lower south right from the Carolinas , and that she would have to travel by foot , you know , down to the slave markets , the slave pens of New Orleans. And so when I began to think about , you know , about that journey , not only , like geographically , right , because she's going from a more hilly , like mountainous , elevated region down , down , down , right to the coast , you know , which is at sea level. So she's descending geographically. But but I think that the hardships and the horrors of slavery were became even more , I don't know , violent , you know , the further south that you went. And so it seemed like her journey sort of mirrored the journey that the characters take in in the Inferno. So I thought , well , maybe that could be a model , right , that I could use to structure and its journey south. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So like the further south she went. Each experience sort of represented each ring of purgatory.
S2: Right , right. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You know , there's this quote. To understand the world , you must first understand a place like Mississippi.
S2: But I think here that I feel like that history feels very present. Right. And I think it's it's easier , perhaps , to understand in a place like this how history echoes in the present. Right ? You know , I mean , I wrote about New Orleans and let us descend. send. But you know , I there multiple monuments you know for confederates their their actual the actual slave pens that are still there there , there are the , the beautiful sort of mansions right along the , the river right , that were built , you know , by enslaved people. Right. And through the labor of enslaved people. And so , I don't know , I just think that history is very much present in the landscape still here. I think that presence clarifies , I think for many people , the I don't know , this the sort of the true were origins of this country. Right. Um , that , you know , that we we aren't all hymns and willing speakers , right. That I don't know that there's a there was an uglier. Under.
S1: Under. Truth.
S2: Truth. Yeah. Underbelly there. Right. Mhm. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And it's a history that never leaves us. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Oh well it's been such a joy talking with you. I have been speaking with author Jesmyn Ward. She'll be at Point Loma Nazarene University's writer Symposium by the sea tomorrow. The event starts at 7 p.m. you can purchase tickets on the Warwick's Bookstore website. Ticket holders will also receive a copy of Lettuce Descend. Jasmine , thank you so much for joining us.
S2: Thank you.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
