S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. Today , we discuss how asylum seekers in Tijuana would be impacted by Trump's plan to shut down a mobile app. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. President elect Donald Trump has vowed to shut down a mobile app used by migrants seeking asylum in the US. KPBS border reporter Gustavo Solis spoke to asylum seekers in Tijuana who would be directly impacted by Trump's action.
S2: It's Christmas time in this Tijuana migrant shelter. Children play by the tree while parents decorate their temporary home. And like Mary and Joseph , these families are hoping for room at the inn. They're all asylum seekers who fled their home in search of protection in the US. Some of them have been waiting more than ten months to pursue asylum claims. Jose Maria Garcia runs the migrant shelter.
S3: Tiempo algunos tienen. Mrs..
S2: They're all using the CBP one mobile app , which allows asylum seekers to schedule appointments to enter the US. It's become the only way to access the asylum system. There are a limited number of appointments , which is why people are waiting so long. Garcia Lara says the families are stressed.
S3: This hacer hacia donde me Como la hago no tiene options. Captions toman bueno la otra no.
S2: And adding to that stress is Donald Trump's promise to shut down the app , leaving these families with virtually no access to the US asylum system. Advocates are calling on the Biden administration to expand the number of appointments. But Customs and Border Protection officials say there are no plans to do that. With no help in sight. Families in the shelter are turning to a higher power. A woman that we're identifying as flower says a little prayer every time she opens the mobile app.
S4: Yo la vida Dios con mucha cada vez pongo las.
S2: She fled her home in Mexico after a relative molested her son , and other family members threatened to beat her for reporting it to the police.
S4: Yo tengo por la vida de messages porque tenemos no quiero no se encuentran.
S2: They've now been waiting six months for an appointment , and Flores , terrified that her relatives will track them down in Tijuana. Roughly 100 people live in the shelter and half of them are children. Parents say this is all for them. A sacrifice to give their kids a safe and happy life. Blanca Isabel is another Mexican asylum seeker.
S4: On a mission.
S2: His daughter , which is Blanca's granddaughter , was born in the shelter a month ago. She never got to meet her father. He.
S4: He. Was a mess.
S2: Blanca's family has spent the last four months trying to secure a CB1 appointment. She says other families have gotten so tired of waiting that they decided to cross the border illegally. They've thought about doing the same , but Blanca doesn't think they could make the dangerous journey with a newborn , so their only hope is to get an appointment before Trump's inauguration.
S4: I said , look , preocupa an application. Nosotros nosotros.
S2: Meanwhile , Garcia Lara wonders how much longer he can keep the shelter running. Their power was cut off during the first week of December because they couldn't pay the $1,000 electrical bill. The lights came back on only after two donors paid the bill.
S3: Okay , what do I see ? Gracias. Hemos perdido sobre vivir.
S2: But Garcia still isn't sure if he's going to be able to keep the lights on. He doesn't know how he's going to come up with the money to pay for next month's bill. Gustavo Solis , KPBS news.
S1: And Gustavo joins me now to talk more about the story. Gustavo , welcome.
S2: Hello , Jane. Thank you.
S1: Hey , so , as we just heard in your piece , you spoke to several asylum seekers about what it's like to wait for an appointment. And their fate basically rests with a cell phone app.
S2: Well , it didn't happen overnight. And it's actually , if you remember , like early on in the Biden administration , there were very dramatic images of encampments along the border. There was one here in in Tijuana , but they were mostly along the the Texas border. And these images of just hundreds of people sleeping out in the open air just within a stone's throw away from the border , created a lot of controversy. And one of the ways the Biden administration responded was by creating this app. The idea was that instead of having a mass of people in these scenes that invoke a lot of feelings of chaos and disorder , they get this app. They don't wait right at the border. They can wait in shelters or in different towns further away from the border. And it's kind of out of sight , out of mind. Right ? The problem isn't as visible , and it's kind of shielded from from public view. And that kind of got the political heat down a little bit at that time. So that was kind of the political dynamic that went into creating this app.
S1: So it was more for optics.
S2: Yeah , I believe so. I mean , look , to be fair to the administration , it did create another pathway to access the asylum system , albeit a very restrictive one. But to date , you know , since this app went into effect , I think more than 800,000 people have been able to legally come into the United States and and pursue their asylum claims. Now , whether they get it or not , that's a different question , right ? There's a statistically speaking , less than half of people with open asylum claims end up getting that relief. But these people are just fighting for the opportunity , right ? The due process rights , they're just essentially fighting for their day in court to try to seek protection. Okay.
S1: Okay. And I want to I'm going to circle back to this app's effectiveness a bit later in our conversation. But , you know , I imagine all that waiting causes a lot of stress.
S2: I mean , some of it is the the , the way people carry themselves , right ? The 1000 yard stare by somebody just kind of sitting there twiddling their thumbs , not doing anything. Some of it is more intense , more more physical. Like I've seen women who whose hair is basically they're losing their hair because they're so stressed. Um , folks waiting for for the appointment , basically the way it works is , is is kind of like a lottery. Every day there are 1450 appointments available for everyone in the southern border. But there are tens of thousands of people trying to get one every day. So the result is that people are waiting for months and months on end. I think in Tijuana , the average time is about nine months waiting for an appointment. And while you're doing that , you're essentially living in a state of limbo. You're not working. Your kids are not in school. You can't really plan for the future. You're just like you're waiting. You're you're subject to to the whims of this app. And maybe you'll get an appointment , but you probably won't. You don't feel like you have any other options , so you just wait it out and hope for the best. A lot of people are praying every day. They are incredibly , some of the folks I've talked to are incredibly religious , resilient people who are who just hope for the best.
S1: Well , this question may be a bit larger than the scope of our conversation , but what is the holdup ? You know , we hear about this problem every election cycle.
S2: It's really changed. Part of that began with the Trump administration , and it's really shifted , definitely how politicians view asylum. But I think how the general public views asylum , where it went from being this , this protection that that we granted after it kind of came out of shame in the 1940s when the US turned away a boat of Jewish refugees trying to leave Europe before the Second World War. We turned them away. They went back to Europe , and some of them died during the Second World War. And at that time , the international community , you know , said , never again. We need to create a system where countries can welcome asylum seekers in , even if they don't always have a passport or a visa ready to go. In recognition of the real danger circumstance of that. So since then , asylum was always seen as almost like a responsibility that the United States has. And in the last couple of years , starting with Trump , but also continuing under the Biden administration , has been seen not as a responsibility , but but as a bit of an obligation or even a burden. So slowly , there's been attempts to limit access to asylum , prevent people from getting it depending on how they enter the country and different things like that. So this is kind of the continuation of that path that we went on.
S1: Well , in all that , give me a bit more context about this CBP one app.
S2: Some reasons more obvious than others one. It's a mobile app. If you don't have a phone , if you don't have access to to Wi-Fi , or if you're not tech savvy , you're going to face real challenges to to registering and applying for for that kind of protection. It's only available in a limited number of languages , I believe. Three. So if you don't speak those languages or if you speak them , but you're illiterate. You know , good luck getting access to that. Uh , another issue that's been raised is what about folks with disabilities ? Either you can't see or , uh , cognitive disabilities that prevent you from registering from it. So those are very real challenges. The other one , obviously is the limitation , right ? I said a 1450 each day , significantly more demand and supply. It creates this almost like lottery system , uh , to the point where where it's not super sustainable. And a lot of folks like , look , on the one hand , to be fair to the administration. More than 800,000 people have used it to to secure appointments and enter the country. And that's amazing. Significantly more have not. And there are reports of people who have been waiting in Tijuana migrant shelters who have been , uh , beaten , robbed , uh , kidnapped in some cases. So , so they are almost by definition , some of the most vulnerable people in the world right there. They're seeking asylum. Criminal elements in Tijuana know that that makes them very easy prey. So it creates a very controversial dynamic for for some of these folks.
S1:
S2: Um , and this goes back to the way our asylum laws are written. It is explicitly written in the law that everyone is eligible for asylum , independent of how they got in the country or independent of their status. So it used to be you could cross the border illegally , turn yourself in and start the process that way. Or you could present yourself at a legal port of entry like Sinestro and say , hey , you know , I'm here , I don't have a visa , but I am , you know , running for my life because of , you know , this , that and the other. Can I please just get a screening to see if I qualify ? That's kind of why we're here now , right ? People can't cross illegally and turn themselves. And Biden shut that down in June through through an executive action. And long before that , they can't just walk over to a port of entry and ask for it because they'll get turned away repeatedly. So we're in a situation now where the only , uh , like , practically speaking , the only legal way to access the asylum system is through this app that has a lot of limitations. And so that in , in , in practice creates a significant barrier to entry for for everyone.
S1: And to add to the issues you just mentioned , I understand skin tone is also an issue when using the app.
S2: Yeah , that was a big thing. More so in the beginning. They have done things to improve that , although it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to. But I interviewed several Haitian immigrants in Tijuana and I saw them myself. Just try to take a photo of themselves through the app , which is one of their requirements , right ? As part of you have to put in your personal information , you have to identify a sponsor in the US who is willing to take you in while you were there , and you have to take a picture of yourself so they can kind of run it through different databases. Folks with dark complexion really struggle. The camera just wouldn't capture their features , and they couldn't move on to the next step in the application process. So that that's been another major issue.
S1:
S2: They're going to enforce those policies that are set before them. Right ? They they enforce policies , they don't enact them. So as far as they're concerned , they're doing what they're supposed to. Right ? They're screening a certain amount of appointments every day and doing their best to process these folks. There have been calls to increase the number of appointments going back to even before the election , but those calls have amplified after the election. There's no sense from the Biden administration that they will increase the number of CB1 appointments. So right now , until , you know , next month , I think things are going to stay the way they are.
S1:
S2: Um , one of the things , you know , at the tail end of the Trump administration at the start of the Biden administration , we can't forget that was the height of the pandemic. Right. And and that created just a very unique situation that we hadn't really seen historically. There was nothing to compare it to. But that's when we had policies like title 42 under title 42. Border patrol could turn away folks at the southern border without screening them , uh , really without hearing them out. And that essentially shut down a lot of the asylum access for folks. I don't know if we'll get a return to that , but we could , um , I mean , Trump has already vowed to bring back title 42. Whether or not he can do that is open debate. Uh , it'd be tricky because if you recall , title 42 wasn't really an executive order or really an immigration program. Title 42 was a public health order issued by the CDC. Um , so it'd be tricky to see how they bring that back when there is no health. There's no , like , emergency health pandemic to attach it to the other program remain in Mexico. Do you need approval from Mexico to do something like that and to remain in Mexico. Folks who had already been pre-screened for asylum , so folks who were legitimate asylum seekers who were going through the process , had to live in Mexico while their cases were adjudicated. The reason we need Mexico's approval for that is because the US was sending non Mexicans back through this program , right ? There are people from Central American countries and some South American countries being sent back to live in Mexico. To do that , you obviously need the green light from the Mexican government. And the president has said that she's not willing to do that at this point.
S1: And Taiwan is migrant shelter system is already unstable.
S2: They could face very serious capacity issues. Right. I think it's important for the listeners to understand that Tijuana's migrant shelter system really serves two populations. It serves migrants coming from the South trying to get into the United States. It also services Deportees who are leaving the United States , who some of them have never been or haven't been to Mexico in decades or don't know anyone in Mexico , may not even speak the language. Uh , they don't have resources to find an apartment or and let alone find one , but pay for one. So their first stops will be these migrant shelters. The concern is that the they're already kind of tapped out with the existing migrant population. Now , an increase of deported population on top of that will just overwhelm the system.
S1: This is KPBS Midday Edition. We're back after the break. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman , speaking with Gustavo Solis about the impact of shutting down the mobile app used by asylum seekers. Well , I really want to know more about your reporting process behind this story.
S2: I've been on this beat a few years now. Um , it doesn't happen overnight. You just don't walk in Tijuana , you know , stumble into a migrant shelter , knock on the door and ask for interviews. Right ? You have to put in the time and build the trust , not just with the director of the migrant shelter , but the folks who are in there. And it's really up to them if they want to participate , if they want to share with us a lot of folks who will ask , you know , do you want to talk ? And they say , no. And that's the end of the conversation. We respect that. We totally understand why they would want to talk. I think with one of the women I interviewed , Flor , you can hear it in her voice holding back tears , you know , recounting the story of why she's running away. I'm very much aware of the fact that I'm asking people to relive their trauma , relive why they brought there , and that's very painful for them. So I tried to to write a story to to produce a story in a way that does justice to to what they told me , right ? So that there is a point to them reliving that trauma and hopefully we can share it with the wider public. At the very least , folks here in the US who have never been to migrant shelters or maybe have never met a migrant , will get a little bit of more understanding or perspective of where they're coming from. So I do keep that in the back of my mind.
S1: And speaking of floor , I want to talk more about her. Tell me about her story and what it was like getting to know her mom. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Flor is from the Mexican state of Michoacan. Which which for context right now is actually under a do not travel advisory from the US State Department out of concerns for kidnapping and crime. Uh , she fled with her two children , a ten year old boy and a 13 year old daughter. The 13 year old actually had her birthday at the shelter. That's how long they had been there. But she had to leave her whole family , uh , in kind of a rushed process because there was a relative molested her son. Some of the family members Mayors sided with with the abuser and actually threatened to beat floor and attack her children or take her children rather if she reported it to the police. Um , so she she took her kids and ran from the only life she knew in hopes of finding a better one in the US. And even now , she's terrified of the reason we're using Florida. Not her real name is because she is terrified of some of her relatives tracking her down in Tijuana , which I should say is not uncommon. I hear that very often , particularly from Mexican asylum seekers who are from the south of Mexico , who are in Tijuana. They get messages on WhatsApp or even their Facebook profile saying like , hey , I know you left , I'm coming after you. And their biggest fear is that whatever evil they left will follow them to to the border. Hmm.
S1:
S2: They want to know what will happen to them. They ask the director of the shelter the same thing. And he doesn't have an answer either. Really ? Nobody does. We don't know what will happen if on day one , the Trump administration decides to cancel this app. Uh , what other alternative ways they'll be to legally access the asylum system , if any , is a big question. Uh , so it's just a lot of uncertainty , and I really feel for them because there's no you can't plan around it. Right ? You can't come up with a plan B or plan C , some folks who have the money and are willing to risk the safety aspects of it are willing to cross illegally. Um , just because in there , you know , they make a calculation , right ? If I think that if I go back home , I'm definitely going to die , and if I cross illegally , I might die. You know , those are chances you're willing to consider if you are desperate enough , which some of these people are.
S1: And there are so many stories like that that you uncover in your reporting.
S2: Kind of like what they start doing and how they roll everything out. I know one of the things I wasn't with KPBS during the first administration , but I was an immigration reporter , and I remember how reactive the news cycle got to every tweet , every leaked document. It kind of became the cycle of , oh , man , Trump did this. You know , you won't believe what he did next. This is what you should be outraged about. Now , I don't think that serves the audience just personally as a reporter. That's not very fun to cover. So I think we're coming up here at KPBS with a way to cover everything that is going on in our own space , in our own terms , something that kind of separates the news from the noise and we don't want to do sensational type of reporting that just causes people to be stressed and anxious. But we also do want to let people know what's going on and how things could impact them directly. So that's something we're trying to navigate. We're still kind of coming up with with the details and the approach of how we're going to do this , but I am excited about what that's going to look like.
S1: Well , we look forward to what's to come. I've been speaking with Gustavo Solis , KPBS border reporter. Read his full story@kpbs.org. Gustavo. Thank you.
S2: Thank you. Jaden , I really appreciate you.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
