S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. Today we are discussing something that's not talked about enough. The support and care needed to cope with postpartum depression and pregnancy loss. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and engaged. When the transition to motherhood gets difficult.
S2: We can certainly , you know , move into like a hypercritical or a self-critical place where we're feeling guilty or ashamed , even.
S1: Plus , the signs of postpartum mood disorders and how to find support and how to cope with pregnancy loss. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Becoming a mother is a transformative , life changing experience from pregnancy to early parenthood. The transition can be beautiful , but it can also bring very real , very challenging mental health concerns , all of which are complicated and confusing. Later this hour , we'll discuss health concerns during and after pregnancy , from postpartum depression to pregnancy loss. But first , we navigate the mental challenges of becoming a mother and how to care for yourself through the process. Joining me now is Jen Mendoza. She's a licensed clinical social worker with Mother Thrive Therapy in San Diego. Jen , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Hi Jade , thanks so much for having me.
S1: So glad to have you here. So the transition to motherhood can be really difficult. There's actually a term for this process. It's called mitosis. What does that mean exactly.
S2: But trust is that process of becoming a mother. It's a time that's as life changing as adolescence , but we rarely talk about it , right ? Um , so this is the transition that a woman undergoes. That's just such a profound shift in identity. There are emotional , physical , and social aspects of this. Um , and really , you know , it's a term that's not very well known , but , um , it covers just so much of this time as we're transitioning into motherhood.
S1: Are there certain things that happen to our minds and our bodies ? I mean , talk a bit about that. What happens during this process ? Yeah.
S2: This time , you know , I really see in my work that there are a few major things that can come up for women during this time. One of them is really reconciling our expectation of what motherhood might look like , or what we expect it to look like with our reality. You know , we often have this idea. We think it's going to play out a certain way based off of maybe our culture or our family of origin or our relationships with , you know , our partners or our family of origin. Certainly there are other influences like social media , um , and what we see , you know , going on with our friends. But then we get into this role and the reality of motherhood can look just so much different than what we expected. Um , and that that gap there is really where we see a lot of , uh , feelings of discomfort that can come in when we are experiencing challenges or , um , things like grief or pain or , um , you know , sometimes there are other like , perinatal mental health issues that can come up during this time , you know.
S1: Um , and so many things about you , um , change after giving birth as you laid out your physical body , of course , but your mind to in what ways does the mind change ? Yeah.
S2: You know , this time in especially early postpartum time , we are so wired to , uh , be connected to our babies. And what I often see in my practice is that there can be this jump in , like , more vigilance , you know , during this time , you know , some common things I hear moms saying is , you know , I was like , you know , I couldn't sleep because I was like , checking on the baby. You know , they were making all these noises. We're checking to see if they're breathing. And , you know , we're so wired to be more vigilant. And where it can get kind of tricky is where , you know , regular postpartum worry kind of transitions into maybe more of like anxiety , hypervigilance , um , you know , more impactful mental health concerns. Um , and so those are the times where we're really wanting to get more , some more support. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Um , what is your advice for grounding yourself through all of that. And , and really also being able to differentiate between , you know , that vigilance and then that turning into anxiety. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. One of the things that I talked to expecting parents often about , and I actually really like to get both partners in a session so we can talk about these things , are learning what intrusive thoughts are that these are common thoughts that can happen in the postpartum time for so many postpartum women. Um , and how to identify them. Because one of the things that can often happen is if we don't know that they can happen , these , uh , disturbing kind of intrusive thoughts that often are related to safety and well-being of the baby. Um , if we don't know that these things can happen , then we can certainly , you know , move into like a hypercritical or like a self-critical place where we're feeling guilty or ashamed even of some of these unwanted thoughts that can come up during this time. So I often find , um , you know , really evaluating for ourselves , like , okay , is this like , normal worry or are we , um , kind of starting to move into a place where we need to get a little extra support. And one of the things that I often find is that it's really the people around us that are going to know if we're if we're struggling , you know , we're going to , you know , we are recovering from having a baby. We're sleep deprived. You know , we're just in survival. And so often it's our friends and family that are going to be the ones that are really going to know , you know , for starting to struggle with some of those things. Yeah.
S1: And we're going to actually dive into that. More of the intrusive thoughts and the postpartum period in our next segment. But , you know , they say it takes a village.
S2: And when we don't have access to these like so much needed supports that we really need in this postpartum time , I really see that this can really negatively impact our emotional well-being. But I really like to encourage people , especially when they're pregnant , to really start thinking about this time and how they can prepare for , um , you know , emotional support , of course. So that can include , um , you know , friends or family that can be there for us , that we can , um , that are open to us texting them , you know , maybe other moms that are just a little further ahead in the journey than us , um , or family members that can offer some , like , really good , uh , validating support , um , or even professionals that can help us during this time. Um , and then talking to our support people about what that hands on support can actually look like. You know , we we find that , you know , so many people want to come over and hold the baby , but what we really need is for mom to be held , right. We really need somebody to come over and really support mom in these moments. Ask how mom is doing and , um , really validating , you know , mom's experience in that time.
S1: Yeah , it's like you need it all. Yeah , yeah. Well , you also work with people experiencing infertility , which can really influence a person's relationship with motherhood. Explain that for me. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. This experience that we can have if we've gone through infertility or just like this complicated journey to being able to , like , get pregnant and have a baby. You know , I always say that if , uh , you've gone through a journey of infertility , you know , you often really know this , these anxious , uh , response as well. And , you know , once we become a parent after going through an infertility journey , there can be a higher likelihood of experiencing perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. Um , certainly I've seen a lot of , um , women that have gone through infertility experience some anxiety in this postpartum time. Um , and also it impacts the way that they feel about their bodies. So even during pregnancy , there can be an impact. You know , they may have developed a negative view of themselves and their bodies and their ability to to get pregnant and stay pregnant. And so that can be really difficult. It can be hard to trust that things are just going to work out. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Well becoming a parent can also be a triggering experience for those who haven't processed their own childhood.
S2: We start thinking about the way that we were raised , um , what that looked like , how our parents parented us , how they responded to us. And I think sometimes people think , oh , well , I didn't have any , like , major traumas , you know , but there can be an impact , even if we're thinking about , like , was our pair a stay at home parent or did they work a ton and , you know , they really weren't around. I often find that if we go back and do this work , you know , with a , with the therapist or professional that's trained in being able to guide us through this process , we can repair ourselves at the same time as we're parenting our own children. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1:
S2: And , you know , often our kids , what's so important to them is not that we're getting it right or that we're getting it perfect. You know , we are going to mess up sometimes , but there is so much healing that can come in in the repair. So if I yelled at my kid and you know , I'm like thinking to myself , oh my gosh , I can't believe I just did that or said that. You know , it's really about like having that accountability and apologizing and making a sincere repair attempt with our child. That means so much to them , and they're going to learn so much from that in our example , and also remembering that they don't want us to be perfect , they just really want us to be present. And that's really what it's all about , is really being present and connected with our children. Yeah.
S3: Um , you know.
S1: I oftentimes you hear people say that they feel like they lost their identity , um , when they became a mother. What's your advice for reframing ? Motherhood is really gaining a new sense of identity and perspective. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. I really like to go back to this idea of what matter essence is. This process of becoming a mother can take us sometimes more than just , you know , our three month maternity leave. You know , it can take time for us to really integrate into this new identity. And it's about bringing these old pieces , these pieces of our old identity and bringing that in and integrating that into our new lives as moms. And sometimes it can take some time to get there and to really figure out what that looks like for us. But it's really about just being patient and being compassionate with ourselves , knowing that we can integrate these aspects of our old identity into this new role of being a mom.
S1: I've been speaking with Jen Mendoza. She's a licensed clinical social worker with Mother Thrive Therapy in San Diego. Jen , thank you so much for being here today.
S2: Thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
S1: Coming up , we explain the signs of postpartum mood disorders and how to find support.
S4: There is nothing wrong with you. Like this is something that is absolutely , you know , a genetic predisposition. There can be a genetic component to it. There is a risk factors in a person's history that can impact this.
S1: Learn more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. This hour , we're discussing the mental health challenges of pregnancy and early motherhood. Postpartum depression affects 1 in 7 women within the first year after childbirth , but it's often undiagnosed due to stigma and misconceptions around postpartum. Listeners should know the following conversation contains sensitive topics. Joining me now is Kassidy Freitas. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist in San Diego specializing in maternal mental health. Cassidy , welcome to Midday Edition.
S4: Thank you so much for having me. I am thrilled to come on and talk about these important issues with you.
S1: Well , we're glad to have you here. So you work with patients struggling with postpartum depression and anxiety. What falls under postpartum mood disorder. Exactly. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. So here we have postpartum depression. We also have a bipolar disorder which can occur in the postpartum period as well. And as you said this impacts 1 in 7 birthing people. Um , what we also know though is that there can be a lot of shame and stigma around this experience. And so a lot of folks who are not sharing that they're struggling with their providers. And I think that's important to consider , too , that there's a possibility that even more than that , 1 in 7 or 15% of birthing people are impacted by this. And also the non birthing partner are impacted as well. And so you know spreading awareness and and really talking about these issues to break the stigma and reduce the shame around sharing that you're struggling and getting the support is a huge mission of mine. So I'm glad we're talking about this.
S1: Especially since so many people experience this break this down for me.
S4: So , you know , postpartum depression is one of the most common medical conditions that challenges that someone can experience in that postpartum year and can go beyond the postpartum year , actually , if it goes untreated. Now postpartum depression. This is a mental health condition where one is feeling depressed most of the day , every day , maybe feeling that shame , guilt. The difference there is shame whispers. There's something deeply wrong with me as a person like who I am. And guilt is I've done something wrong. Uh , feeling panicked or scared ? Um , having mood swings , right ? So irritability and rage actually can be experienced with depression as well. Um , feeling tired all the time , having difficulty sleeping even when the baby is sleeping. Uh , having little interest in things that usually would be of interest to you. Um , your appetite can be impacted. Eating a lot more. A lot less. Um , gaining or losing weight. Um , having trouble sleeping or sleeping too much , actually. Um. And then trouble concentrating , making decisions , difficulty bonding with your baby. And you might have some thoughts about hurting yourself or your baby. Um , thoughts around suicide can be a symptom as well. And if that is being experienced , if any of these things are being experienced , but especially those thoughts are in harming yourself or someone else , that is a situation where it's a crisis and we want to immediately get support. Call 911. Go to the nearest emergency room. Postpartum psychosis though is is I think , one that , you know , brings a lot of that that stigma piece , that kind of fear around asking for help. It feels like , you know , and it's one of those that we hear about on the news a lot , or we've seen maybe on on a movie or television shows. Now , here's the thing. It is very , very rare and is a very serious situation that we want immediate help to be , you know , reached out to in this case , though , oftentimes the person is not disturbed or distressed by the thoughts that they're having. And so if you are feeling disturbed or distressed by the thoughts you're having , uh , chances are that is not postpartum psychosis. Um , postpartum psychosis is a situation where a person is not disturbed by the thoughts. Um , and they might have these beliefs that. Yeah , are that , that indicate more of a psychotic episode. And so that is , again , a crisis situation. We want to make sure that immediate help is , is brought to that person's , um , side. So calling 901 , going to the emergency room , immediate support is called for. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Well I know that you've mentioned that this work is very personal work for you. Do you mind , do you mind sharing more about your own experience.
S4: Yeah I'd love to. Um our oldest , she's now 13 and we were so excited to become parents. And , you know , when she was born , I did have a traumatic birth experience , which can be a risk factor for postpartum depression or anxiety , and it was a really intense experience. Things happen that I was not prepared for , moments where I felt like I didn't have control , I didn't feel , I felt like I was my body had failed me , and then I then they hand you a newborn and you're trying to figure out how to breastfeed , and you're healing from that birth experience and your sleep is impacted. And I didn't have a chance to process everything. I had just experience and was just , you know , went into postpartum , you know , with some of my own , like prior anxiety , which can also be a risk factor. And I had a lot of sort of rigid expectations and this kind of desire to control things that were happening as a way to just feel like I had some control. So there was some perfectionism there. And what it led to for me was a postpartum anxiety Disorder where that came with some intrusive , scary thoughts. This kind of feeling of always being on edge , hypervigilant. And you know , I was really distressed by these intrusive thoughts there that led me to not want to share it with people , because I felt a lot of shame around it as well. And really , it was just taking that meaningful risk of sharing with one person , hey , I'm having these thoughts about really bad things happening to my baby , and they're graphic and they're really distressing and I'm struggling. And that one person to look at me with love and not like I was crazy. That was the exact step I needed to take to then start taking more steps , which led me to reaching out to a therapist myself and getting that support. My partner was struggling too , though , and we didn't know at the time that postpartum depression in the non birthing person in a dad is also possible , but it is and he was struggling with depression. I was struggling with anxiety. And that also created a lot of , you know , distress in the relationship itself. And so , you know , both partners are at risk and both partners should be supported. What's unfortunate in our medical care system , though , is that the non birthing person oftentimes is not assessed. And so it's my hope in having this conversation is to also name that , you know , whoever whether you gave birth to that child or not. There are risk factors in the postpartum period for parents. And so you deserve support.
S1: I want to go back to something you said. You said that , you know , you noticed you were having intrusive thoughts and thoughts that something bad could happen to your baby.
S4: I think it's a really important piece to touch on because I think we can we can hear that word intrusive , scary thoughts. And we might have some ideas around what that might look like , but I think it's really important to name what some of these could be. And so I know for me , we lived on a second story in a little town house , and I was afraid to leave the house because I was picturing myself carrying my newborn baby down the stairs and dropping her , and the image of her head hitting the stair. And it was , you know , pretty graphic. There can also be intrusive thoughts related to your baby , you know , in the middle of the night , not breathing. And so you're up checking constantly. Um , it could also lead to some intrusive thoughts related to , um , you know , bad things happening to you and therefore you're not able to take care of your baby. And there's also , um , postpartum OCD , which is an important one to name as well. And in this case , the intrusive thoughts , um , that level of distress is , is really is really intense. And then it can also be connected and paired with , you know , rituals that someone you know identifies can bring this sort of sense of control back to their lives. And so they might find themselves having certain rituals , whether it's an actual behavioral ritual or sort of a mental ritual or really focused on things like numbers. And you know , how much the baby drink or , or numbers in other ways. And so OCD is also something that can be at risk for the postpartum period as well , and can fall under that postpartum mood and anxiety disorder umbrella.
S1:
S4: Like , this is something that is absolutely , you know , a genetic predisposition , there can be a genetic component to it. There is a risk factors in a person's history that can impact this. And then there's our societal context and the fact that we do not get good parental leave , and especially the non birthing person does not oftentimes get protected leave either. That time is so precious to be able to really slow down and to feel like that support from your employer , I think is huge and really sends a message and that it can. I know that a lot of folks that reach out to me , actually is when they're about to go back to work and they find themselves now worried about , you know , I'm not sleeping through the night yet , and I'm going to have to get up and go to work , or how am I going to protect my breastfeeding goals while also having to navigate pumping and bottle feeding and the stress of that along with childcare ? It can really impact somebody. And a lot of times I will see folks actually reaching out to me around that point in time when , you know , at this point they can no longer handle the stress of it and they they need that support. Um , and so parental leave has a huge piece in all of this.
S3: Well , speaking.
S1: Of our societal context , there are also stark disparities in maternal and infant health care in the US , particularly among racial lines.
S4: And when you look at mortality rates , there is a disparity there. And so the ways in which people of color , women of color are treated within the health care system , um , whether or not they are believed when they are expressing the symptoms that they are experiencing , whether or not they are assessed to begin with , all of this has a huge impact. And then and yes , in the healthcare system , but in society as a whole , right , the the stress that racism and sexism has on the on a human , on our bodies , on our nervous systems , on our mental health is not something we want to ignore in this either. And so again , one more reason to say if you are struggling , there is nothing wrong with you. You deserve support. You deserve support that meets you where you're at. That gives you space to express the experiences that you're having and that in that you know that can support you with the things that actually really matter here.
S3: Well , let me ask you this.
S1: Given the disparities , um , and I heard you mention being hypervigilant. Right. And so in particular for black women , when you look at these disparities , it's you almost have to be hyper vigilant. Um , if you are going to give birth , um , talk a bit about , you know , a behavior that that one might find necessary Versus having a disorder. Mhm.
S5: Mhm.
S4: Oh what a good question that is. You know I think that when we , when we look at as a , as a , as a woman of color , as a person of color coming into a setting where you are already coming in with that hypervigilance of , are you going to treat me in a respectful way ? Are you going to believe me when I share with you what I am experiencing ? Am I going to have a voice here ? Right. I think that that hypervigilance is something that can have an impact on our functioning. And when we look at a disorder , we're looking at symptoms and we're looking at functioning. And so I actually think that when I , when somebody comes to see me or when , when any provider is , is meeting someone , we yes , want to look at symptoms and we yes , want to look at functioning. But we also we want to not be Blind to the context of that person is coming into this experience with whether that is their race , their sexuality , um , their , their religious views , their abilities. And we want to be asking folks about those experiences as well , too. And I think that , you know , can I distinguish whether or not this is an experience based on the prejudice someone has , has experienced , or is this a disorder ? I think it's such a nuanced conversation and an experience that each person has the right to the human right to , um , be assessed and to to have a provider be curious about that so that we're not just slapping a diagnosis on someone , but we're actually looking at the whole picture in a more holistic way. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Well , you know , I want to know what do you wish you'd been told about this before you gave birth and , and also what are some preventative measures pregnant people can take to prepare for the possibility of postpartum symptoms like this. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. You know , I really wish that I had been told that that like , if it feels hard , it's because it is not because you are not a good enough mother or not cut out for this. Because those are some of the thoughts that I had when , you know , my baby had been crying for several hours with colic and I felt like I wanted to hand my baby over to somebody and like , go escape to a hotel room and , like , get a full night's sleep. Like , that's not because there's just I'm not cut out for this. It's because this really is hard. And so when we look at preventative , right , preventative protective factors , there's one of the biggest protective factors is around support. And so getting that support in place ahead of time , making a plan for how you're going to get restorative sleep and rest during the postpartum period , even when your baby is not sleeping through the night. And so. Sleep is a huge , um , protective factor , so protecting parental sleep during that period is also huge. And so when we're looking at setting up support , I mean , we're setting up meals and a plan for meals. We're making a plan for childcare. If you have older kids , we're making a plan for your mental health support. So maybe you are getting established with a therapist beforehand. We are making a plan for sleep so that , you know , both parents are able to get restorative rest. Gosh , even just a four hour stretch in the middle of the night , one of the biggest protective factors I think we can take is actually identifying like a point person and reaching out to them and saying , hey , will you be my person ? That you're going to check in with me at the two week mark , the four week mark , the six week mark so that you are asking me , hey , how are you doing ? Really just having that person that you know can help you and is going to be checking in on you because that six week visit that we get , you know , you give birth and it's like , we'll see you in six weeks. And then for so many it's like 15 minutes and they're just clearing you for , you know , sex and exercise. Uh , that's not enough. That is not enough. Parents deserve better and more. And while our health care system might not necessarily be meeting us with what we need right now , we can be taking some of these steps to activate our support system so that we are so that we and our baby and our family are protected.
S1: Well , Amen to that. Cassidy , thank you so much for sharing your story with us and providing such great advice. I really appreciate it.
S3: Thank you.
S1: I've been speaking with Cassidy Freitas. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist in San Diego specializing in maternal mental health. Cassidy , thanks again for being here.
S4: Thank you for having me.
S1: You can find resources on our website at pbs.org. Still to come , pregnancy loss awareness and finding support from those with shared experiences.
S6: Without a frame of reference is sort of like explaining to somebody what it's like to be in a car accident when you haven't. It's just not in their sphere of understanding yet.
S1: More on that when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Today on the show , we're discussing mental health challenges and grief during pregnancy. Pregnancy loss is a common source of that grief. As many as 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage. But like postpartum depression , stigma and misunderstanding prevents people from talking openly about pregnancy loss that can leave pregnant people feeling disconnected and alone. That's where support groups come in. Empty cradle is a local nonprofit serving families who have experienced miscarriage and infant loss. Listeners should know the following conversation includes sensitive topics. Joining me now is Jill Landry. She is a support meeting coordinator for Empty Cradle. Jill , welcome to Midday Edition.
S6: Thank you for having me.
S1: Glad to have you here. So. Miscarriages are a very common experience , much more common than many people understand.
S6: And so generally , women don't share as much as they should because they feel like there's something that they could have done. And most miscarriages , you never get a reason for them and you struggle with then how to process , how to move forward from there , which usually includes wanting to get pregnant again. Hmm.
S3: Hmm. Well , how.
S1:
S6: So if you don't know anybody in your circle that has experienced a pregnancy loss , even in your family , then you don't know where to go so you don't feel like there's a place for you. So you sort of sit by yourself and just let the train of thoughts go through your head and through your head and through your head. And it's just depression making. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. But I mean.
S1: Is the reality that that a lot of people don't know what what you're going through. Absolutely.
S6: Absolutely. And that's what I talk about in group is that they don't have the experience. They have no understanding. They might be totally supportive of you from a concept that , oh , gosh , I would hate that if that happened to me , but without a frame of reference is sort of like explaining to somebody , oh , what it's like to be in a car accident when you haven't. It's just not in their sphere of understanding yet.
S3:
S1: Would you mind sharing a bit about your story ? Absolutely.
S6: I had my first child. No problems. Uh , then trying to get number two was quite a challenge. Uh , after my third miscarriage , I found a tiny support group by , say , tiny. Uh , I went to the support group. It was only one woman there , the leader. And she made me stay , even though there was no other attendee but me. And it was the first time , after three losses , that I sat there with somebody and talked about my loss , with somebody that understood it , that it had her own loss. That , to me was life changing. And I know people use that a lot , but this was life changing because here I am. And I returned to San Diego. That later that year found empty cradle and then found my group. It's just your group of people that understand without you even saying a word , how you feel about your life and your hopelessness.
S1: You found your. Tribe.
S6: Tribe. I found my tribe , and I did. Even with my tribe. I had one more miscarriage after that , and then I had a subsequent , we call it a subsequent baby. I had a successful pregnancy. She's 21 right now and my son is 28. And Georgia and Zach know all about this world now.
S3:
S1: You know , I'm going to try again.
S6: Oh , that's such a battle. Such a battle , because you sort of go into your first pregnancy , uh , skipping. And Now. There's so much social media involvement in every announcement of every step up until the birth that when you have your first pregnancy and you start skipping and you tell everybody or you don't tell and you just found out , however , and then it blows up and you're left without that , and then you're like , well , okay , next time I obviously can't be so secure. And I have to be terrified because there's nothing in between secure and terrified that you can even imagine at that time. So the support group model , I would think , uh , helps people to think about other things and to try to manage their , their emotions , even going into thinking about , I call it opening the door when you're unprepared , when you're having unprotected sex and you're opening the door , this all could happen. So it's very It's a brain bender , is what I say.
S3: Uh , a brain bender. Indeed.
S1: Indeed.
S6: And then there's you open the door. And then for some people , remember , pregnancy loss is not their only issue. We have a lot of women that come to us with IVF as the lead in and failed IVF or IVF that led to a multiple pregnancy , and those pregnancies are gone. So people don't just bring , oh , I had a loss. They bring so much else with it. So when they are embarking on the the second journey to go have a baby , there's there's no footing that they can hold essentially. Uh , so we try to sort of say , right , one day at a time , here's your footing , Here's what you can do. Here's the way. The only thing you can control is how your thoughts go. You can't control what's happening in your body. And that's the most terrifying thing. With miscarriage. Specifically , you rarely get an answer as to why I never got any answers , so I just kept trying. Right.
S3: Right.
S1:
S6: It just makes the world's pain that you used to be able to keep away , possibly touch you. All of a sudden , the things that you thought were not necessarily other people's problems , but just had never you never bumped into any of that. It just opens up a realm of everything could be terrible from here on out. And for those of us that , you know , internally , we've always felt like we want to be mothers. The thinking that that might not happen for us biologically is terrifying , and fractures the part of yourself that you thought was the most steady in yourself. I'm going to be a mom. I'm a I'm a woman. I'm going to be a mom. I found the guy or or found the way , um , and it should happen. And then when it doesn't , you're just left without a lifesaver of so without a life preserver. And so for me , the support group model that that I found to be so helpful is you're just surrounded by other women and life preservers and their stories and how they did it. I don't have all the answers. I have some steps you could follow , some way to maybe switch your brain to thinking this way.
S1: Um , talk to me about that. And then striking that balance between , um , sort of being comfortable and , and acknowledging how you feel and also working to think positively.
S6: So the , the lead into that piece is also that generally there's a period of months that transpires , if not years before , once you have a loss , a miscarriage , and then you are deciding to open the door , people do not slingshot out and generally go for another pregnancy. Three months later , they take a lot of time to prepare to get pregnant again , because they're sort of trying to prepare for having another loss. And my first thing I say is , hey , you've already had a loss. You know how to grieve. We have to help you come up with solutions for living and not grieving while you're pregnant with another baby. So let's see if we can kind of help you remind you of a few things. So the few things that I stress in our groups or I do emails with people as well , are that , you know , you only have control over your sleep , your water , your nutrition and what you do with your mind and then how much physical exercise you get. So I do tend to make mental health your only responsibility Ability while you're pregnant because you're going to do all the right things. You're going to , you know , try to get sleep , you're going to take your prenatal , you're going to go to your doctor visits , you know , you're going to care for your body in that way , but your brain is just spinning and spinning with , what if the baby dies again ? Just flat out what if the baby dies again ? And I tend to say to people more than once , I'm sort of have these sort of things , I repeat all the time. And I'm like , we've heard this before , but it's you could say to yourself every time that you're concerned about the baby , which is at a minimum a thousand times a day.
S3:
S1: This conversation talking about how few people really understand what you're going through when you've experienced something like this. So , you know , what is your advice for for how to respond to someone who's gone through this , who's had a miscarriage.
S6: I love this , I just got goosebumps because it's like my favorite thing in the world to say to somebody that's like , what do I say ? All you have to do because you have no frame of reference for this is you just say , I'm , I'm so sorry for you. And it's more about initially what you don't say. Um , so you certainly say you're sorry. Uh , you certainly send cards , flowers , goodies , anything like that. If you're close to the person , to make them feel like that little life that didn't make it mattered. Um , the person that has had the loss , we never forget them. For mine , my first one was 25 years ago. You carry it all your life with you. So on that vein , you're you're sort of acknowledging that to that person that your baby was here. It mattered even if it was brief. And then mainly the first thing never to say is , oh , don't worry , you can try again. That is so despondent making. I can't come up with a great phrase. It just everybody knows they can try again. What they don't know is if they're going to be successful. And so even if you have the most the best intuition and the , the best , uh , intentions , you also never say to somebody , um , I'm sure everything will work out the next time , because none of us know that. The doctors don't know that , um , women go in with hope , and everybody else's job around them is just to go , yay ! I would love for people that haven't experienced a loss just to understand that it's so complicated. And if you're in a family with somebody that has had a loss , um , the most beautiful thing that you could do is mention periodically. Maybe it's an email. Hey , thinking about you , thinking about your loss , I remember. Just remember the parents. Remember the dates you get stuck on or your lost dates , and you always know your due date. And so those dates are extremely hard.
S1:
S6: If it's not , if it's not us at MD cradle , maybe it's a therapist , maybe it's a chaplain. Talk to somebody about the pain you're in and about how sad you are. It really does help. And if you can find one more person that you can talk to about your loss , honestly , about all the feelings you have about it. It can really , really bring you back to a place of hope. And that's you have to hope for your next child.
S3: Great advice.
S1: So thank you so much for sharing your story.
S3: You're welcome. It was.
S6: Kind of. Wonderful.
S3: Wonderful.
S1: I've been speaking with Jill Landry. She is a support meeting coordinator for the nonprofit Empty Cradle. Jill , thanks. Again.
S3: Again. Thank you. And you can.
S1: Find a list of resources and support groups at KPBS. Org. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
