The uncertainty of Sen. Feinstein's future and what it means for California

S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. Concerns are mounting over the illness and absence of Senator Dianne Feinstein. I'm Maureen Cavanaugh with conversations that keep you informed , inspired and make you think. California's senior senator has been sidelined by illness for the last two months and now some are calling for her resignation.

S2: She's sort of the first senator who's really been publicly criticized for staying too long.

S1: And as Dianne Feinstein and her contemporaries come to the end of their political careers , we'll discuss the emerging new generation of national leaders. Next on Midday Edition. After groundbreaking political careers , many older politicians have been allowed to slowly fade into old age , protected in their last terms by the loyalty of their political colleagues. Now , whether that's been the right way or the wrong way to deal with elderly politicians in the past , it is certainly not the way the senior senator from California is being treated now. Senator Dianne Feinstein has been absent from Congress since February due to illness , and that's increased concerns about the 89 year old's fitness for the job , with even some Democrats in Congress now calling for her resignation. LA Times opinion writer Jackie Columns covered Washington politics for years. She sees the concerns about Senator Feinstein breaking new ground and not in a good way. And Jackie , hi. Welcome to the program.

S2: Thanks for having me , Maureen.

S1: So having very old people in positions of power in Washington isn't new.

S2: You know , the Senate has been known as a men's club and old men's club up to about the point that Dianne Feinstein was first elected in 1992 , along with three other Democratic women and which gave the election year the name Year of the Woman , which shows you just how little had to be accomplished to to give in a Senate that only had two women at the time. So the election of four increased their number by 200%. But but you know , not nearly enough. Just as an aside , there are 25 women now , so it's a quarter of the Senate. So we've still got ground to go. But. But yes. And you know , before there have been a couple of times before she was elected that I had tried to do stories on men who were so old and clearly enfeebled and why were they sticking around so long and why weren't people sort of pushing , you know , pushing them to resign ? And what I found both times is that there was such respect for their colleagues and for the institution that it really did show the clubby ness of the Senate back then that they would sort of protect they wouldn't want to talk to reporters , and they would point out and justifiably , that the senator in question had really good staff to prepare the work to do the constituent service and various things , you know , to bring it to the present. That can be said as well of Dianne Feinstein. Now , she's known and has been known in the past for having good staff. One of the problems , though , is that she's lost a lot of staff because they know that she's not going to be around long and they want to go for other opportunities.

S1: What else , though , is different in the case of Feinstein ? There are some people saying she's being criticized more because she's not an old man. She's an old woman.

S2: Well , and that's the thing. You know , she's been a path breaker. So now , as I said in the column , she's she's a path breaker in a not so great way in that she's sort of the first senator aged senator in my memory who's really been publicly criticized for staying too long , for not leaving. And in truth , you know , I didn't think she should run for re-election in 2018 myself. But there were there was talk back then and I'm sure you remember it , that people thought she was already slowed , both physically and mentally. And so here we are , you know , five years later , she's just got a year and a half left to go on her term. And it's really become almost untenable. She , like you said , has been out since February , and there's no word as to when to expect her back. And meanwhile , we have this backlog of judicial nominees that need Joe Biden's judicial nominees that need to be acted upon. And she's , you know , the tie breaking vote for Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee. So that's why , you know , so , yes , she's broken new ground in that she's the first senator I know. And I think , you know , gender is part of it. There is some sexism here , but I think it's a very minor part. The bigger factors are what what I just was talking about and that she is critical to the Democrats getting work done because the Senate and the committees are so narrowly split. And also , I mean , California's a big state. 40 million people nearly are going without adequate representation from Dianne Feinstein. That's just the fact. And , you know , California's 40 million people , that's that's about 50 times more than the population of Wyoming who has two very active Republican senators right now. So , you know , this is just I just think it's a shame , given what a sterling career she's had.

S1: I want to talk about some of that celebrated career because it's gone on so long. There are a lot of people who don't know Dianne Feinstein as anything but an elderly senator who's having difficulties. As you mentioned , she was elected to the Senate back in 1992 on a wave of woman power. And that wave included Senator Barbara Boxer , didn't it ? So California had two female senators and which was at worst. Yeah. Besides that , though , Feinstein was already famous in California for her role as mayor of San Francisco after the Harvey Milk assassination.

S2: And , you know , was was a real picture of sort of strength in that moment. So when she and Barbara Boxer were both elected in 1992 , they at the same time , but they came in a there was a sense among all of us that Dianne Feinstein was the senior senator , you know , senators , two senators from each state , one the one that's been elected the longest is the senior senator , and then there's a junior senator. But in the case of California senators elected at the same time , there was still , because of her stature and her record in California , a sense that Dianne Feinstein was senior to Barbara Boxer , which probably , I think I recall , sort of grated on Barbara Boxer a bit. But Dianne Feinstein proved her wits and her skills because it's sort of pertinent now. You know , we're talking so much about assault rifles and whether they should be banned. Well , she helped pass in her her first term in the Senate in her second year , actually , a the ban on assault rifles and assault weapons that was in place for ten years from 1994 to 2004 , when the Republican , then Republican Congress and George W Bush as president let it lapse. So the fact that she could get that kind of gun bill through Congress and so quickly was just a real tribute to her.

S1: But she's never been a favorite of liberal Democrats , has she ? Throughout her career , she's been known as a moderate. No.

S2: And it's a real disconnect between the way she's seen in Washington or been seen and the way she , you know , her record in in California , I guess it's , you know , reflects the fact that the spectrum of the political spectrum in California is more Hughes leftward. But the yeah. Democrats on the left in California think she's a raging moderate and and two pro-business business friendly. And she is and she makes no bones about it. And my colleague as a columnist , Mark Burback at the LA Times wrote in his recent column on Dianne Feinstein , recalled how early in her career she just confronted a hostile , left leaning audience with standing her ground that she is pro-death penalty. And yet in Washington and maybe part of it had to do with that early victory in getting a assault weapon , an assault weapons ban into law that she's seen. She's been seen as a liberal. And and also there the other issue is she is really widely associated with abortion rights , so much so that on the Senate Judiciary Committee , whenever there's a judicial nominee , the other senators , no matter how prominent they are on the abortion issue , they defer to her. She's the one who questions nominees on their stance on abortion. So I guess those things the gun and the abortion issue both have have made Dianne Feinstein seem like just run of the mill liberal Democrat here in town. But , yes , in what matters is , is what the Democrats in California feel and the fact that she's remained all these three decades suspect two more liberal Democrats in California. She's there's there's this public grousing about the fact that she's hanging on in the Senate because they want her to make way for newer , more liberal , more progressive talent.

S1: If you look past her age , 89 years old , just her age , and you look past this present illness that's kept her out of the Senate for a couple of months.

S2: But they profess to have personal experience with evidence that she's not her mental acuity is not what it should be for a senator. And , you know , I think. It's somewhat interesting. Back in when I first came to Washington decades ago , even before Dianne Feinstein did , and I would watch these senators through the years , there was a thing and it's still it's called senatorial courtesy. And so something like when now when Dianne Feinstein has said , okay , I'm ill , I'll be back when I can come back , but in the meantime , go ahead and name a temporary replacement for me on the Senate Judiciary Committee. And the Republicans this week have said , no , no dice. And that's been true even of people who are friendly to Dianne Feinstein and her fellow female senators like Susan Collins , the Republican from Maine , and and then Amy Klobuchar , the Democrat from Minnesota. She is supporting Feinstein. But she gave a very pointed comment the other day saying that. But we don't know when she'll be back in this. You know , this can't go on forever. We've got business to do , especially these judicial nominees. And so I think that this this courtesy has gone by the wayside for the most part these days , given how polarized our politics are. But I really don't blame the Republicans , frankly , in this one , because this is sort of Democrats problem. Like like I said , there should Dianne Feinstein should have been persuaded to step aside five years ago. But now that her physical ability and we know her mental acuity are both in question now , it's become sad. I mean , this is a woman with a proud legacy and it's just a shame that it's ending this way , whether it ends soon or lingers through , you know , to January of 2025.

S1:

S2: I just don't see how this this situation persists for a year and a half. It can't it can't forget a year and a half when her term ends. It's just another month. I mean , we all know of all the issues dividing the two political parties , judicial nominees and the makeup of our federal courts is one of the most contentious and most important. And especially now that Democrats feel so acutely the fact that Donald Trump in as president in league with then Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell , the Kentucky Republican , have so packed the courts with Republicans pushing nominees through , including on the Supreme Court , in in ways defying rules and norms that they hadn't in the past. Democrats are just intent on helping Joe Biden offset that imbalance and and get some progressive judges on our federal courts. And that's why Dianne Feinstein has to get back or you know , this this can't go on much longer.

S1: I've been speaking with Los Angeles Times opinion writer Jackie Collins. Thank you so much for talking with us.

S2: Thanks for having me.

S1: We'd love to hear your thoughts about Senator Dianne Feinstein absence from the Senate. Give us a call at (619) 452-0228 and leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. Coming up , the Democrats lining up to run for Feinstein's Senate seat.

S3: Three of them , Adam Schiff , Katie Porter and Barbara Lee , stepped in to run for the Senate race. This all has complicated the calls for Dianne Feinstein's resignation.

S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Maureen Cavanaugh. Now , this hour , we've been talking about the difficulties surrounding the absence of Senator Dianne Feinstein from the US Senate sickness and what many claim are fading abilities have kept the 89 year old senator from her job for the last two months. And it's become clear that there are other powerful Democratic politicians in California who would like to take her place. The situation is revealing rifts in party loyalties , not the least of which is a dubious promise made by Governor Newsom himself. It's great to welcome back our expert on state politics , UC San Diego political science professor Thad Kosar. Thad , welcome back. Thanks for having.

S3: Me , Maureen.

S1: So Governor Newsom promised to appoint a black woman as senator if either of California's US Senate seats opened up. But that promise apparently did not extend to an open primary.

S3:

S4: Zoom a little bit back to the larger context , which is that the appointment , the potential appointment that we're talking about for Gavin Newsom here wouldn't be his first appointment. In fact , the current US senator , the current attorney general and the current secretary of State , all people appointed by Gavin Newsom. And so there have been very few opportunities for California's many experienced and ambitious politics.

S3: To run , for politicians.

S4: To run for. And in three of them.

S3: Adam Schiff , Katie Porter and Barbara.

S4: Lee have stepped in to run for the Senate race. And so it.

S3: The call this all has complicated the calls for for Dianne Feinstein's resignation because.

S4: It would if Gavin Newsom makes another appointment it would could effectively head off and open contested really the first instance of democracy at the the that we've seen in the last few races in California. And so that makes it much harder for Gavin to just make have a free hand in making any appointment that he might want.

S1:

S3:

S4: His last most prominent appointment , Alex Padilla , as the US senator.

S3: He she was replaced. He was replacing Kamala Harris , and.

S4: Kamala Harris.

S3: Brought a lot of diversity and representation to the US. Senate.

S4: Senate. Many observers said , Hey , the Senate is taking a step backwards in inclusiveness by losing a black woman. And Gavin Newsom was making a different step in.

S3: Inclusiveness by replacing.

S4: Her with a Latino man. But he said.

S3: You know , should another seat come open ? I would replace her with someone who would also.

S4: Bring the same lived experiences that Kamala Harris did , another black woman. And that that has been the the the valve that has gotten a lot of attention because it intersects with who's running , who's declared their intention to run in 2024 for Dianne Feinstein Senate seat.

S1:

S4:

S3: Member of Congress from Los Angeles.

S4: Who's been prominent in leading the first impeachment.

S3: Of Donald Trump.

S4: He is so far the candidate who's leading the money race at about $25 million raised and has the most prominent name. Katie Porter , one of the new social media stars , and become a national force.

S3: In progressive politics.

S4: She's a member of Congress from Orange County.

S3: She is also in the race and has.

S4: About $10.

S3: Million in her campaign war chest. And then Barbara Lee , the progressive stalwart from Oakland.

S4: Who has been who is one of the co-founders.

S3: Of the Progressive Caucus.

S4: And also would bring diversity to the to the US Senate. She is has gotten a late entry , only raised $1 million so far , but is really just starting her campaign for US Senate.

S1: So Congresswoman Barbara Lee is like the first person who would be tapped if there was someone going to be appointed by Governor Newsom to fill Senator Feinstein seat if indeed she resigned.

S4: And that would put the other two candidates , Adam Schiff and Katie Porter , at a huge disadvantage Because of that. There's a lot of pressure on Gavin Newsom if he does have this appointment.

S3: To become more of a of a neutral player and appoint someone who might be a caretaker , someone who would do the job for two years , but might.

S4: But is either not declared that.

S3: They're running right at this time now or might agree to to only serve for those two years and not run for.

S4: Reelection in 2024.

S1: I read that Congresswoman Barbara Lee and her supporters are rather annoyed that they're not getting an endorsement from the governor in the open primary race. That's coming up. But one of the problems seems to be that the other two candidates are bypassing her in popularity and fundraising. Well , I think.

S4: They started ahead. And so they've they've raised more. They're more they've had a lot of tough political fights. And so their Adam Schiff has has been the biggest fundraiser because his name has been out there. He's had.

S3: To raise. Money.

S4: Money. Katie Porter , same thing. She's had to raise money.

S3: Barbara Lee has a really safe district and hasn't had that much experience fundraising. But she's got the the the long time record as a progressive.

S4: She's got the national.

S3: Appeal to , you know.

S4: To to grow to catch up if if her campaign can get rolling. But but sure the governor of California Gavin Newsom's endorsement would be very appealing. Her pitch is that hey , if you if you think it's so important to have diversity and representation in a black woman in the Senate , look at me. Right ? I'm an experience qualified candidate. Why don't you you know , why don't you put your put your endorsement where you know where your promises were. And and I think that's why.

S3: She's that's why she.

S4: Would she would love to have Gavin Newsom either appointed to the office or just back her in this all important race.

S1:

S3:

S4: Would pick a caretaker. Right. Someone who who would make an impact , be historic , but perhaps.

S3: Pledged not.

S4: To run in this seat in 2024 so that California can finally have a contested statewide race for for a major office. And we could see some real political competition now.

S3: That is tricky in itself because who wants to just put the rest of their political career on hold in order to do this ? So Holly Mitchell , Mitchell.

S4: County supervisor in Los Angeles , who's a former state Senate budget.

S3: Chair , very prominent politician , she's.

S4: Already essentially said , hey , no , thank you , I've got a.

S3: Career here. And.

S4: And.

S3: I don't want to take a Senate appointment. That would be a dead end. And so Gavin Newsom might go outside.

S4: Into the civil rights or.

S3: The policy.

S4: Advocacy community to find a candidate for. Appointment.

S3: Appointment.

S4: Who who is who would be happy to take this position for a year and a half and not run in 2024.

S1:

S4: I think Senator Feinstein , who's.

S3: Already announced her retirement , wants to.

S4: And very much expectedly feels like she deserves.

S3: To go out on her own terms and retire when when she is ready at the expiration of of her time in office. I think her view is that. She's.

S4: She's.

S3: Not too old. She is sick. Right. She's had shingles. Right.

S4: She's been out from the Senate and.

S3: Missing some of these key judiciary votes. But she'll be back. She has been there. She's been.

S4: Working and casting votes on.

S3: All of the key issues.

S4: And voting in a way that responds to California's.

S3: Interests for for the past several years , even though there have been rumors about her. And and she is looking forward to getting back to Washington , D.C. , and she feels like she has something to add to the debates on things like water policy. She has.

S4: This prominent position as the second ranking member on the Senate.

S3: Appropriations Bill Committee. All of those are reasons why.

S4: Dianne Feinstein wants to go out on her own terms and retire in 2024.

S1: But some Democratic members of the House have called for the senator to step down , but not her colleagues in the Senate.

S4: Remember , Dianne Feinstein has been there since 1992.

S3: She has strong.

S4: Relationships on both sides.

S3: Of the aisle. And the reservoir of respect for her is deep there. Senate is also an older body , right ? Its average age is 60 , is over 65 this year. That's that's older than the retirement age. So. So Mitch McConnell , Richard Durbin , all these other senators are looking around at each other and they're not spring chickens either. So they don't want to call her out for being too old because that that would be an issue for them. And they also understand and respect her ability.

S4: To to get work done. And and they've seen her in action. I think.

S3: What you're seeing in the House is not just a difference.

S4: In culture and age between the two.

S3: Bodies , but it's.

S4: Also the political strategies of the people involved.

S3: The first person who called for her to resign , Ro Khanna , is the co-chair of Barbara Lee's election campaign.

S4: He was thinking perhaps.

S3: That Dianne. Feinstein.

S4: Feinstein.

S3: Resignation would lead to a Barbara Lee. Appointment.

S4: Appointment. And it's clear that.

S3: There was political strategy.

S4: As well as an assessment of fitness for office that was behind his prominent call for her to resign.

S1: I want to talk more about what you were mentioning about the the age of senators. In fact , there have been a lot of complaints about the age of politicians in general in Washington , including our 80 year old president. Some have been calling this a gerontocracy.

S3:

S4: This is now the oldest Senate in US history , and that's partly because we're an older country. Medical technology has allowed.

S3: People to live longer.

S4: But gerontocracy.

S3: I think , is is is a ridiculous word. We're democracy. We voted for these people.

S4: We had a choice in California in the last Senate election between Dianne Feinstein , who brought both age and wisdom , and Kevin de Leon , who brought fresh new ideas and a new perspective , but but also.

S3: Potential risks of a younger politician.

S4: Californians chose Dianne Feinstein. Kevin de Leon.

S3: Is now facing calls for his.

S4: Resignation after his.

S3: Racist remarks were caught on tape in Los Angeles City Council. So there's reasons why California may have made a smart decision in that election where we.

S4: Voted for.

S3: Dianne Feinstein knowing that there were knowing what her age was. And so , you know , the fact that voters have decided to elect older and perhaps wiser politicians.

S4: Doesn't mean that there's something essentially wrong.

S3: With our democracy. It's kind of an.

S4: Example of.

S3: Democratic choice.

S4: Made by millions of of Americans and Californians in 2018.

S1: But , you know , California actually doesn't have that same situation of lots of older. People in positions of political power. Not since Governor Jerry Brown , at least.

S3:

S4: Of political generations in California from the era of Dianne Feinstein , Barbara Boxer and Jerry.

S3: Brown , who was , remember , the oldest governor. And and and they were replaced , you know , because of term limits on Jerry Brown , because Barbara Boxer , now Dianne Feinstein , decided it was time to retire.

S4: They've been replaced by a new generation. Right.

S3: And and so voters have.

S4: Have backed that. And that's part of the natural turnover that we see in life and in politics. But five years ago , four years ago , we would have been saying the California had the same problem that other states had. So , so.

S3: So really , I think.

S4: What we're seeing right now in California is this generation of 50 something leaders who have come to the fore.

S3: But in 20 years , we may be talking about trying to shove them out the door as well.

S1: Earlier in the program , I did ask if Senator Feinstein's determination to stay in office has a chance of dimming her remarkable legacy.

S3:

S4: Can dim her legacy and what she has achieved so far. This is all been in the inside whispers of the chattering.

S3: Class rather.

S4: Than , I think , what the history books will write about 20 years from now. And when you think about Dianne Feinstein , it's going to be about things about things like the assault weapons ban , you know , other major issues on on natural.

S3: Resources and and the trailblazing role that she and Barbara Boxer played for for for women in politics and the major leadership positions.

S4: That she'd assumed in the Senate. I think that legacy. Is.

S3: Is. Safe.

S4: Safe. I think there is maneuvering and squabbling now.

S3: And and certainly if she's unable to.

S4: Return from her sickness , which is something we want to keep as different from age , the shingles that she has now , if she's.

S3: Unable to return.

S4: From that , you.

S3: Know , she will have to figure.

S4: Out some way to ensure that she's not stalling , that that that illness doesn't stall the the ability of the Biden administration to move through key things like judicial appointments. But but right now.

S3: We're in a.

S4: Time when she's continued to cast votes that are very much in keeping with the current progressive movement in California , where where her actions have , you know , have continued to to to lead the state where nothing in her age has really been a detriment to the representation that she provides to. Californians.

S3: Californians.

S4: I don't think these whispers are enough to tarnish that legacy.

S1: All right , then. I've been speaking with UC San Diego political science professor Thad Kosar. Thad , thank you so much.

S4: Thanks for having me.

S1: We'd love to hear your thoughts about who should be the next senator from California. Give us a call at (619) 452-0228 and leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. Coming up , the next generation of leaders waiting in the wings.

S5: I think that there are , frankly a lot of really exciting trends that the millennial generation has been talking about and exciting ideas that the millennial generation has been talking about.

S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm wearing Cavanaugh. This hour , we've been discussing questions concerning Senator Dianne Feinstein , health , age and fitness for office. But of course , she's just one among many elderly legislators in Washington , and they can't last forever. So when the next big demographic members of the millennial generation take their places as leaders of the nation , should we expect sweeping changes or more of the same ? Writer Charlotte Alter spent several years studying that question. She's the author of the book The Ones We've Been Waiting For. And Charlotte joins me now. Hi , Charlotte.

S5: Hi , Maureen. Thanks so much for having me.

S1:

S5: I was alarmed by some of them. You know , just just to explain where I got the title from , the title comes from this speech that Barack Obama famously gave. Um , and really , I think the operative word in the title is not the part about waiting for. It's the part about ones. Because one of the things that I noticed when I studied this generation is that this generation has a perception of power that is much more about mass social movements , about groups working together , and less about waiting for one particular person to bring about a broad set of changes.

S1:

S5: No generation has a monopoly on the right ideas. I think that there are , frankly , a lot of really exciting , exciting trends that the millennial generation has been talking about and exciting ideas that the millennial generation has been talking about in terms of sort of developing a new kind of social compact between Americans and our government in terms of strengthening the social safety net , in terms of increasing equity and diversity in our politics. But , you know , there also is Trumpism in this generation , and there is a lot of some of the sort of darker strains that are also in our politics include some members of this generation as well. So there's obviously some of that , too.

S1: I'm wondering , did your conversations maybe change your perceptions about any millennial stereotypes ? This generation has been tagged with things like being difficult or being entitled or lazy.

S5: So we're really talking about young , too early middle aged adults when when we talk about millennials. So I just found that many of the stereotypes were sort of outdated. When you think of millennials as being entitled or being obsessed with avocado toast , you know those sounds , those sound like headlines from 2012 because they kind of are. And actually , millennials are the largest living generation. There are 72 million millennials alive in in the United States today. They are the largest bloc of eligible voters , along with Gen Z , Millennials are the most diverse generation in history. They are the most socially tolerant. And they've also gone through a set of unique historical experiences as a generation that has really shaped their worldview in some very distinct ways.

S1:

S5: In fact , people's political attitudes tend to be shaped by the events that they experience in early adulthood. And so for millennials , again , these are people born roughly between 1980 and 1994. For millennials , those experiences include coming of age right around 911 for for many young people , that was that was their sort of seminal moment of understanding America's role in the world and then the Iraq war that followed , then the financial crisis. This. Then the election of Barack Obama and the rise of Black Lives Matter and finally the election of Donald Trump. So those are the sort of set of distinct events that I found really did shape how millennials as a generation see their country and see their role in the country. But then there also are broader trends as well that can't necessarily be be summarized in a single event. So , for example , the rise of social media is something that has profoundly affected this generation. The financial insecurity that comes from graduating into a financial crisis is something that has deeply affected this generation. The rise of gun violence , the prevalence of climate disasters are all things that this generation has internalized and is thinking a lot about about. So those are the set of circumstances that really define millennial political ideology.

S1: You spoke with some millennials who are already prominent in politics , and they told you about how these early memories shaped what they think about they they told you about how they thought about 911 or about the Great Recession. Can you share some of that with us ? Sure.

S5: I mean , for example , I spoke extensively with Pete Buttigieg , who at the time was the mayor of South Bend , then went on to run for president and is now the first millennial cabinet member as secretary of treasury. He said that 911 was a was a profound experience for him. He at that time was in college. He was at Harvard. And it was the it was the event that made him decide to join the military. And , you know , that was something that really shaped his perception of both America's role in the world. And also something we talked a lot about is that these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were very different from the wars that earlier generations experienced , because these wars were fought by only a small sector of the population and there was no draft. And it was not something that millennials broadly felt like they had to be worried about. So many of the people who did fight in these wars felt a disconnect between people who served in the military and people who didn't. And that is one of the things that may have led to these wars dragging on for so long , because there wasn't necessarily the public pressure that came with a draft or mass movements surrounding those wars. So we talked a lot about that. I spoke to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez about the financial crisis and how that impacted her ability to pay for college and how her inability to pay for college and the need to take out these student loans , you know , meant that when she graduated , she was basically living paycheck to paycheck , even though she was a person who had worked hard her entire life , who had earned a college degree , who had been set up for success. And yet she found herself in a situation that many millennials find themselves in , essentially feeling trapped by a system that wasn't designed to help them economically succeed. Obviously , that has since changed down. Now she's a member of Congress , but these were some of the conversations I had around , like how essentially how these broader events and broader trends that we sort of understand as part of our collective recent history actually were part of the formative experiences of the next generation of political leaders.

S1:

S5: You alluded in the beginning to Senator Feinstein. I mean , some of the people in in significant positions of power in our country right now were born before the invention of the color television. And they're now overseeing a government that is tasked with figuring out how to regulate the AI revolution. You know , Feinstein herself was born before the invention of the chocolate chip cookie. We just we simply have a government that is older than the country that it governs. And so I think one of the basic things that is going to happen when this , you know , when this generation takes power , which. Need to remind everybody this is. This is a question of when , not if. You know , I don't know if it will happen in the next five years , but there will be a moment where where millennials are are ascendant. Anyway. I think one of the one of the big things that I noticed in my conversations across the aisle was that both millennial Democrats and millennial Republicans seemed to have a little bit more of a understanding of what the basic problems are , even if they tended to disagree about what the solutions to those problems might be. So , for example , climate change was something that even millennial Republicans that I spoke to understood that climate change was happening. They understood that it was manmade and they agreed that something had to be done about it. Now , that didn't mean that they were about to sign on to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal. There are still significant tensions and disagreements and big fights to be had in the future. You know , I'm not arguing that a millennial led future is going to be without conflict because millennials all agree with each other. That's not the point of this book. But these debates that were that have been happening until recently about , oh , is climate change something we should worry about ? Oh , is it manmade , oh , what can we do about it will be significantly different when we're led by a generation that fundamentally understands the science of this. I think tech regulation is another area where I think we will we will see massive shifts with more millennials in power. Mean as recently as a couple years ago , you had senators interrogating Silicon Valley executives and social media executives who didn't understand the business model of Facebook , who didn't understand how advertising works on social media , who didn't understand some of the basic concepts of our social media economy , of the digital ecosystem , and how can they possibly regulate , how can they possibly oversee or create accountability for an industry that they don't actually understand ? And so I do think , you know , some of the strongest calls that we're seeing now for regulating some of these tech giants are coming from some of the younger lawmakers , partly because they actually have an understanding of how these companies work.

S1: You know , Charlotte , way back in the day , baby boomers were the peace and love generation. They were going to change the world. And then corporate greed of the 80 seconds , Ronald Reagan came along , the hippie dream vanished , basically.

S5: Oh , yes , let's let's bring back Jim Crow. Segregation is good. That's not a trend that I'm seeing among baby boomers. Even if they may disagree about some other aspects of racial justice that are more current. So I actually think in some ways , the case of the baby boomers proves this point , that people develop their political identity in their early adulthood and then they stick with it even when times change. So I think the example of the baby boomers is a is an example of how actually it's really just that the world changed around the baby boomers. And in some ways , you know , there were pressures that made people more progressive. There were also pressures that made people more , more conservative. But many of the baby boomers still have some of those same core beliefs that they developed in the 1960s. And 70s. It's just that the world has changed in such a way that those core beliefs are no longer as progressive as they were back then.

S1:

S5: I , I don't see a world where this generation suddenly decides that climate change doesn't matter. I don't see a world where this generation suddenly decides that racial justice is not important. I don't see a world where this generation suddenly decides that addressing gun violence in schools is not a big priority for them. So I think the question is how those priorities intersect with the world that they inherit.

S1: Fair enough. I've been speaking with Charlotte Alter. Her book is called The Ones We've Been Waiting For. And Charlotte , thanks a lot.

S5: Thanks so much for having me. This was fun.