S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. On today's show , we're checking in on policies to address homelessness and how effective they've been. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and engaged. With the barriers that stand in the way of housing.
S2: There are not shelter beds available. There are not drug and alcohol treatment beds available. Those programs exist in super limited quantities , and they all operate at full capacity.
S1: We'll talk with service providers across San Diego County to find out what their needs are. That's ahead on Midday Edition. More people in San Diego County fell into homelessness than escaped it last month. That's according to new data from the regional Task Force on Homelessness. January's numbers show that 1025 people were placed into housing , but 1216 people fell into homelessness for the first time. Meanwhile , last month , volunteers gathered data for the 2025 point in time count , an annual measurement of unhoused folks in our region. Here's Kesha Carter. She's the program manager for homelessness Strategies and solutions with the City of San Diego.
S3: This is so important because we need to have a snapshot. We need to understand what is going on within our communities , the populations for which we are serving in the needs that they have. And the only way to do that is to collectively do that in one point in time.
S1: The point in time count helps determine future federal funding to support people affected by homelessness. And that's people like Michael Wolseley. He's lived on the streets for two years.
S4: It's been a long and lonely road. I'm 63 years old , so I get my pension , but I make too much to qualify for the benefits. But I don't make enough to actually pay for an apartment on my own. They put a money threshold on who they give benefits to.
S1: Well , results from this year's count will be released in May. To talk about the state of homelessness in 2025 , we brought together some of the people leading efforts to support unhoused people in San Diego. Joining me now is Greg Angel , CEO of Interfaith Services. Welcome , Greg.
S2: Thank you Jade. Great to be here.
S1: Great to have you here. Also , Josh Bohannon , chief strategy officer at Father Joe's Villages. Josh , welcome to you. Yeah.
S5: Thank you for having us.
S1: Glad to have you here. And lastly , Hanan Scrapper , regional director for people assisting the homeless or path. Welcome to you.
S6: Thank you. Jane. Appreciate you having us.
S1: Glad to have you all on. So you all were involved in the point in time count. How did that all work ? And and what were your takeaways this year ? Greg , I'll start with you.
S2: This year for follows a few years now of a different way. The count has happened where in years past people were identified on a on a map and there were tally marks , and then there were a small number of interviews that would be used to get data that could be extrapolated out. But but this year we actually , throughout the entire region , went out and interviewed and connected personally with every single individual who was identified as potentially experiencing homelessness. And that's important because we don't take anything for granted. We don't assume we ask and engage and then get really high level information to be able to inform just who is experiencing homelessness here in San Diego. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Josh.
S5: Yeah , it was it was a great experience. I think it's important that all of us go out there and kind of connect with the community and understand the issues that are surrounding us at Father Joe , as we did the point in time count in East Village. And I think one thing that was really stark and noticeable to me is that we saw a lot more seniors and women who are unsheltered in the morning at 4:00 in the morning , who were sharing a little bit about their story and how , you know , they may have fallen into homelessness , how long have they been experiencing homelessness ? And it really helps you better understand and frame the issue , and kind of gives us that insight as to where we see homelessness evolving. You know , we're seeing more seniors , we're seeing more families. And I think this is a trend that we're going to continue to see , at least for a while , until new policies are addressed to fix that issue. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Hernan.
S6: Yeah , same experience for our team. Our teams go out and do it throughout the city county. And this is also a great opportunity for us who do this work to be paired with volunteers who aren't typically doing this kind of work or aren't involved in it , so having the opportunity to provide some education around it. But also you're going to people when they're asleep at four in the morning. So being really trauma informed and how we approach folks and really using that human aspect of don't wake up someone's sleeping and this is essentially their home. Um , so that's been really informational and helpful when we're working with individuals who don't typically do the point in time count or work with people who are unhoused. Um , we really enjoy that. Some of those questions can be invasive. So we want to make sure we ask in a way that is gentle and kind , but also offering resources as a follow up as well. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So , Josh , you said you noticed a lot more seniors and women as you were conducting the point in time count.
S5: So when we think about homelessness historically , it's been , you know , men in their 40s , their 50s , you know , for quite some time. But these last few decades , what we've really started to notice is families and seniors are falling into it faster than we've ever seen , you know , in our lifetimes in a in a big driver for that is it's economic. It's the cost of housing is higher. People are on fixed incomes. People are on that brink. They're so close between staying housed and paying rent or paying for food or paying for medicine. And so people have to make these tough choices. And so that's that's what we're seeing from people who come in to Father Joe's , you know , through our guest services or outreach or Street Health , that population group , they're they're on the brink. And it just takes , you know , one medical incident or , you know , one bad month. And that can result into homelessness. And it's so much harder to pull out of it. So cost of housing , the cost of goods , cost of eggs , all of these things , they add up. And that can really push people to the brink. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S2: We created the only low barrier shelter for families in north San Diego County. We primarily work in North County. We opened that last year because we saw such an increase coming. And they're. The causes are what Josh just spoke about as well as the tightness of the rental market. So one of the first families we helped in our family shelter was led by a mom with a school aged daughter. She's fully employed , she earns a pretty good income , and she had $15,000 in the bank account. But her income , while pretty good , wasn't high enough to qualify to get approved for apartments. And when her apartment was lost because it was was renovated , she had to move out. She was shocked to find that she couldn't find an apartment they would rent to her , and she ended up making the really difficult choice to move into her car with her daughter. And thankfully we were able to get her into a safe place and that ultimately find a landlord who would rent to her. But the the challenge is getting approval and getting into an apartment. Um , are really a significant factor that leads to people both falling into homelessness , as well as having a really hard time getting out of homelessness.
S1: Yeah , and that's just one factor. Are there other factors that keep people , um , from being able to get into an apartment ? A low credit score could be one of those.
S2: Think about the last time , the listeners , last time they applied for an apartment , or they maybe applied to to buy a home , all the all the documents that they had to provide. Well , a lot of people who are on the streets , they don't have any of those because they've been lost , they've been stolen. They maybe have some of them. And so one of the things that we as providers do is that we help people overcome those barriers , so if they don't have an ID , will help them get an ID if they don't have a place to receive mail , they can receive mail at our locations. The biggest other barrier that we see , especially in North County , is for those who are literally street homeless. There's no place to go There. There are not shelter beds available. There are not drug and alcohol treatment beds available. Those programs exist in super limited quantities and they all operate at full capacity. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S6: Um , the affordability between income and housing , uh , people are not able to make that happen month to month. And oftentimes people are living paycheck to paycheck , including our staff members. Right. Are in that situation where if something was to happen , they may not be able to afford the rent increase if they have major medical bills that they have to pay. So we've seen that to be the cause oftentimes. But the other thing too is , for example , the county has the shallow subsidy program for seniors. It's intended to bridge that housing affordability and income , because you have seniors on fixed income who are not able to make ends meet if their rent goes up even by $100. So those are some factors we need to consider. And the other aspect to it is , um , when you're trying to get back into like the family story you just shared , getting back into housing , oftentimes you need at least double deposit. You need to show two times the income towards the rent. You have to have several thousands of dollars ready to pay in order to get into apartment , and people just don't have that readily available. Most people who live in San Diego don't have that , so that is a huge issue. Another aspect that Greg touched on is lack of shelter beds , rack of treatment or detox beds is critical because people are interested in accessing shelter beds. People are interested in receiving treatment , but we just don't have the beds to get them into that same day when people are ready to make that change. So we're seeing that to be , um , a huge gap in our system right now.
S1:
S5: We have people in our shelter who have two jobs , right ? They've been saving their money. And even if you've taken all of those steps , you know , maybe your credit is not an issue. Maybe you have your documents , maybe you have the the deposit ready. It's still very competitive. Right ? So they're not only just competing , um , through harder circumstances to gain these things , but they're also competing against a large swath of people. I mean , the the vacancy rate for apartments , you know , for every apartment that comes up , you have scores of people who are also competing for that same spot. Um , so that's that's a real challenge. It's it's not that a lot of these individuals , um , aren't making steps to move themselves out of homelessness. It's just that the cards are stacked up so highly against them in very difficult situations. And even if they do make it there , they're still competing just like anyone else. And it's a challenge for a lot of people. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , like and that that leads me to to ask you all then just about , you know , affordable housing , affordable apartments. Uh , you know , when I first got here in 2018 , I remember high rise apartments going up in downtown San Diego , and they were primarily luxury apartments , and vacancy was high. There were there weren't too many people living in them. Um , what do you what are your thoughts on that , on having more affordable places for folks to live like in that situation. Uh , you had a bunch of empty apartments , but they were luxury.
S5: Well , Father Joe's were affordable housing developer , so we've we've built a thousand units. Um , we have about 500 more units that we're going to be bringing on the pipeline. They're all 100% affordable. Um , some of them are. PSH , Permanent supportive housing. So people who might have , um , heightened needs and they need assistance with case management or other supports and services. So , you know , we've worked in the affordable housing space for a bit. And yes , there's a huge lack of these affordable housing , but we're also missing a large swath of middle income housing as well , because if you have that middle income salary , but you're staying on that lower rent apartment , you're not going to move , right. When I moved here , you know , after grad school , like 15 years ago , I had that apartment. I had I at the end of it , I could have moved up and gotten to a better space , but it got so , um , costly to do so. And so we just have this. We need housing. I think across the spectrum , the middle income housing is a huge barrier that's being missed. And we have people who are staying in a , in a housing unit that just , uh , you know , is so expensive for what we imagine affordable would be. So we can build all the affordable housing with these affordable housing programs and developments. But we're not going to be able to meet that need. Just by focusing on that. We need to build housing in general across the whole spectrum for everyone.
S6: You know , we're seeing people staying in shelters longer because we don't have housing options for them. Um , so we're seeing on average for us , like close to 200 days , people are staying in shelters because they're really waiting through the coordinated entry system to be matched to a unit because they can't really afford on their own to move out. And just affordable housing properties have waitlists that , um , people aren't able to get into easily. So not having enough housing significant has significant impacts in the system.
S1: Well , so I want to dig into the ways that our state and local governments , um , try to address some of these issues. Uh , San Diego bans encampments in public areas when shelter space is available. But we're not alone. Cities across the country , uh , have restrictions on sleeping outside , NPR reports. Those restrictions have significantly expanded since the Supreme Court made it easier to crack down on homelessness last year. So tell me , how do these camping rules , for example , impact your work ? Greg , I'll start with you.
S2: Encampment bans and and rules against people being able to sleep in different parts of cities outside. They result in people getting getting moved around. And so people may have to be forcibly moved. They may have their belongings taken or they may lose their belongings. And what that does is it moves somebody who's already in a state of survival , somebody who's on the streets , who's like , literally sleeping on a sidewalk. They're in survival mode. It moves them from survival to panic , and then it lowers their level of of willingness or trust to engage with people , like from our organizations who are reaching out and working with them to try to help them overcome those situations , so it makes it much more challenging. Um , we've seen individuals be motivated by those those encampment bands to access services. We've also seen people just move from one place to another. Um , and , um , encampment bans on their own don't solve or reduce homelessness. Only housing and services do that. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Josh is that something you've experienced too. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. And I don't think we're the only providers , you know , in San Diego or in the nation that are starting to experience this. Um , you know our outreach teams , our street health team , which is a mobile health clinic that drives out to encampments. A big part of what we do is build trust with people who are experiencing homelessness , who are unsheltered , who are sleeping on our streets. And that takes time to develop. But through the encampment bans , when , you know , people move from maybe one street to another , they're not in their regular location. We're trying to establish that trust and show up every day. Maybe we're helping people have their blood pressure medication or , you know , help them find shelter or housing. And that happens to these conversations. And so as providers , I think we've all had to get a little bit more creative in how we respond to the encampment ban. I mean , laws change , policies change , but the work we do is not going to change. We'll just adapt to the situation that we're being provided. And so with the encampment ban , that's just required us to be a bit more creative , right ? We drive a little bit further to find folk and help them get the services and supports they need. Um , because it's critical we can't lose that touch point. Right. And so I think as providers , that's to me a primary concern is that people will lose trust in us. They'll lose access to the supports and services and the dignity that they deserve. Um , and that's that's a big focus , I think , for all of us in addressing the encampment. And as we just keep moving forward. Um.
S7: Um.
S2: I think it's important to understand that people who are living on the streets , they're in that community for a reason , and it's usually there from that community , their families in that community , they work in , that community. They have a connection there. And the connection is not to the service provider who provides a hot meal , right ? They're there for a different reason. And so when encampment bans or or other other enforcement mechanisms require them to move , you're often taking people away from their support system , and that just makes them more vulnerable. And it also is going to likely prolong their homelessness. So , you know , at Interfaith Community Services , we don't want anyone sleeping on the street. Right. And so when we say we're against encampment bands , we don't say we're for camping on the streets. We just don't think they're an effective mechanism to actually get people off the streets and that we need to build the relationships that you were talking about , Josh , to get connection to those services.
S1:
S6: I think we can all also agree that , um , people shouldn't be sleeping on the street , right ? We don't agree with anyone being unhoused or sleeping in places not meant for human habitation. But we also know that criminalizing homelessness does not work. We need the resources , right ? Like part of the reason we do our outreach efforts in the way that we do using neighborhood based outreach , is those individuals experiencing homelessness in those particular communities. They are from those communities , and they want to stay there. So we embed our outreach teams in those areas so they can get to know folks experiencing homelessness , but get to know people who live in that area , but also like the businesses , so that we can really develop that relationship and get them to , um , a safe housing option. What we also , you know , our outreach teams are not seeing people to be resistant to services. They are interested. They want to get into shelter beds. They want to get into treatment. Um , we just haven't found the right intervention for folks. So that's oftentimes why you see people still on the street trying to , you know , survive , make a day to day. And we also find it when people are moved around from one area to another. It's disruptive to services. We can't find them. They lose their documents , their medication. So we have to restart over again to get them connected and build that trust and that relationship. So I think what we need to focus on is increasing shelter bed access or increasing our beds throughout the county , not just the city , so that we have these options in various communities and throughput. We got to get people into housing and work on the solutions that we know are evidence based , you know , providing these services.
S5: But , you know , the reality is there aren't enough shelter beds , there aren't enough drug treatment facilities. So we're we're in this scenario where , you know , we think a lot of people are resistant to services. But the fact of the matter is , most of these services are not available for people who want them. Right ? We have we have people who are desperate to get off substance use disorder. Right. And they want to go through detox. And in the city of San Diego , there are only two detox beds. Um , you know , I think , Greg , you might know the number. There's 78 within the county. Um , for people under Medi-Cal , people who who are very low income. And so , you know , it's hard for us as a society to kind of have this , like , expectation and this frustration , um , and saying , why aren't you , you know , seeking services , right ? You're just resistant to services. And I don't think that's a true fact for for most people. It's just that these services that are out there , they just don't exist. And that's that's a huge challenge that we're all trying to confront. You know , housing services , shelter , um , all of these things.
S1: Coming up , why people need to reevaluate how they think about homelessness.
S2: The number one predictor of whether someone is going to become homeless , it's the level of economic vitality , or lack thereof , but a societal level. This is not a lack of personal responsibility.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Homelessness continues to be a leading issue in cities across California , and San Diego is no exception. From the lack of affordable housing to the skyrocketing cost of living , people are struggling to make ends meet. On the show today , we are discussing the state of homelessness in 2025 from the perspective of service providers. I'm speaking with Josh Bohannon , chief strategy officer at Father Joe's villages. Also , Hanan Scrapper , regional director for People Assisting the Homeless or Path , and Greg Angel , CEO of Interfaith Services. I want to , for just a moment , circle back to policy and the the encampment bans. Being able to have access to people is so important.
S6: So our team is , you know , always out there trying to provide education , but get them out of those dangerous situations and into the resources or even getting them into safe sleeping to get those services and get their basic human needs met. Um , so being really informed our teams , being aware of where people are and it is the homeless community is a community , and they will let us know if somebody they haven't seen someone in a couple of days or where they are. And so being able to find them and make sure they're safe and they're okay is really important to that work. Um.
S7: Um.
S1: You know , with people sort of moving out to more remote areas , you know , some of the the recent wildfires were traced back to homeless encampments.
S2: And some listeners may say , well , that's a bunch of crap. Person needs to try harder , do harder , this or that. The number one predictor of whether someone is going to become homeless is the community they live in. It's the level of of economic , uh , vitality or lack thereof that is the best indicator of who's going to fall into homelessness. So at a societal level , this is not a lack of personal responsibility. We see higher rates of unsheltered homelessness in our community because we have higher cost of living and really low vacancy in the rental market like we were talking about before. There's empirical data that shows those are the two factors that indicate high rates of unsheltered homelessness. The community with the highest rate of opioid drug addiction is West Virginia. Super low rate of homelessness. Why ? It's a little bit more affordable there. You can get by. Um , so just at its at its system at its , at its top level. Like we have to stop blaming people for being in that situation. It doesn't mean personal actions don't lead to it happening. It happens every single day. People make decisions that lead to them becoming homeless , but at a at a societal level throughout San Diego County. It's not the fault of any one individual as to why we have so many people. So I hesitate to engage in a topic where people who are experiencing that are linked to something as devastating and as horrific as wildfires. Um , but I do think it's clear that , as we say , it is illegal to be homeless people are going to move to other areas that are going to be more rural. And when it's cold , people will take actions to be warm and that could result in fires. So I do think it is a , um , it is it is something we definitely need to keep in mind as we look at these policies and the impact of those policies.
S1:
S6: And I think also accidents happen in homes right ? Stoves and different types of fire starts in the home. So I also hesitate to blame people on the street or people trying to survive and stay warm to be the cause of starting these awful wildfires. We haven't seen that to be the case and people are just really trying to make it day to day , so I agree. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , let me ask you guys this question.
S5: Right ? Because I think there are a lot of people that have stable jobs and , you know , they're still salaried and they're having a hard time , meaning the cost of living. And that's and that's why we're seeing more people fall into homelessness. Right ? That is that is a challenge. And that is a struggle. Um , people who've recently experienced homelessness , who are housed , you know , a lot of times it's helpful for them to keep working with their case manager for any trauma they might have experienced or working with their employment and education services to keep finding new career advancement opportunities. You know , we have we have an employment center at Father Joe's. We have case management teams and tenant services teams that work with folk to to help them keep moving forward and empowering their lives. But again , at the end of the day , the driving cause of homelessness , it's not substance use , it's not behavioral health. It's economic. It's it's the cost of housing. Right. And so I think so long as the society we keep , um , opposing the building of new housing. Right. And , and when the community says no housing here , but then they're frustrated about homelessness , I really see that as an interesting disassociation as to what's really happening , except in the day , it's it's we just don't have the right cost of living to meet most people. Right ? Not just people who just experience homes , but most people to make it day in and day out. Right. I think that's the challenge because.
S1: There are people who work two , three jobs and find themselves homeless. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. Yeah. People in our shelter have 2 or 3 jobs , and there , there's nowhere for them to go. And so we're in this weird bottleneck period that we have to figure out. And it hasn't gotten better. Mhm.
S7: Mhm.
S2: Every head of household in our family shelter is fully employed , most of them with multiple jobs. Mhm.
S7: Mhm. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. And I think we have to be creative about getting , you know housing affordability or getting people into housing. For example we have shared housing options now that's available through our TTF as well as through townspeople leading this effort. Um , it's basically having a roommate situation , right. Like getting two people who are compatible to live together. We all may have roommates because it is really challenging to afford , um , to live on your own in some situations. We are placing people into those single room occupancies , basically a room , shared bathroom , shared kitchen , but might be affordable for the time being for them. For those who are able to work , they're absolutely working. And the other aspect of what we see is people who are who have disabling conditions and don't have the opportunity or the ability to work , and they're on fixed income. And this the economy and the cost of living really impacts them significantly because of can't afford to live on their own. Mhm.
S7: Mhm.
S1: Well Hanan shelter is obviously a short term solution towards the long term goal of eliminating homelessness. So are enough people successfully transitioning out of shelters into permanent housing.
S6: We have a small percentage of people transitioning from shelters into permanent housing. Um , that's simply because we have a lot more people that are unsheltered and on the street that are prioritized through the system , through the coordinated entry , to be able to move into housing quicker. But we do we are successful in getting people into permanent housing , and that's been really effective. You know , people do need to have somewhere temporary. Um , if possible , I think about , you know , for each of us today , like what was available to us this morning when we got ready. And the basic things of having running water , bathroom and breakfast and , um , you know , being able to be to sleep safely and wake up and actually , you know , start your day makes a huge difference. So access to shelter for people to be able to work towards their life goals is really important. And I think , you know , the city has done a great job of trying to increase the beds. I know we have 263 beds coming online soon. That's more beds that we need. Is it enough ? Probably not yet , but working towards is is really critical. But at the same time , we need to think about where are people going to go after shelter. So we have to explore the permanent housing aspect as well.
S1: Coming up , the importance of preventing homelessness.
S6: The more we can do in keeping people in housing and reduce the inflow , it will help us with the outflow of getting people housed.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. This hour we are discussing the state of homelessness in our region and the challenges faced by service providers as they try to close the gap. I'm speaking with Greg Angel , CEO of Interfaith Services , Josh Bohannon , chief strategy officer at Father Joe's Villages. And lastly , Hanan Scrapper , regional director for people assisting the homeless , otherwise known as Path. Well , Josh , I want to talk about how national politics are influencing your work.
S5: Right. We receive a diversity of funding from the federal government and from the states and counties , which also receive funding from the federal government as well. And , you know , right now , we're all in this kind of wait and see scenario , and we're prepared to adapt. Currently , I think a lot of these executive orders related to funding are on hold at the moment. I know that there's some court cases that are addressing and looking at these issues , but I think as all providers and as we have done in the past , I mean , we've lost funding before , right ? As the economy changes. Nonprofits are used to that. You know , we're used to adapting. And this is just one more , um , one more moment in time where we're going to have to just look at things and adapt and meet the need and maybe do things differently. Um , but , you know , I think for a lot of us , it's still a little too early to tell exactly what that means for us. Um , father Joe's thankfully. You know , most a good portion of our revenue comes from our donors , our philanthropic community , you know , so we'll weather it , especially if there are less federal funds coming in. I think it really behooves our local community to step in even further , right. Our our San Diegans coming to help out our nonprofits that might start to struggle as we as we see federal funding change. But at this time , it's still a little too early for us to know exactly what any of these federal changes are going to mean for us as a nonprofit , because it's still , you know , it's been a month since I think that those orders have come down and there's more time to see what's going to happen. Greg.
S7: Greg. Yeah.
S2: At Interfaith Community Services , we also utilize a diversity of funding sources. We haven't seen any direct negative impacts , uh , to this point. Um , but we're we're not we're not standing by and just hoping that that stays the case. We've launched a resiliency fund and engaged our donors and our supporters and community partners to to to brace for , you know , challenging times ahead because we we do anticipate there will be reductions in in funds. And we do also anticipate on the other side of things that the needs are only going to increase. So we're going to be here. We know that the caring people of the communities we work in are going to be there , and we'll work together to overcome those challenges as best we can together.
S1:
S6: And , uh , I will say during that challenging time , um , it's been remarkable to see how many , um , foundations , philanthropy groups have reached out and said , how is this impacting you all ? How's this affecting the work ? Um , so it's really great to see that people are listening and are ready to step in and support. We do have various , uh , federally funded programs. You know , we have we serve lots of veterans in our community being in San Diego. It is a veteran community. And so we have Military Town. We have a lot of veteran programs. So we want to make sure that those are going to continue to be funded , and we continue to offer those prevention and rapid rehousing programs. We also have had funding. So we are like at the moment nothing is affected. But um , we'll see.
S1: Wait and see. Well , you know , as we talk about policies , funding , all of these things , um , I'm curious if there's policies or programs from other cities , states , even countries that you look to for inspiration.
S6: We really need to look at predictors of homelessness and being able to prevent people from becoming homeless. And not only is a traumatic when people experience homelessness , but it is also that much harder to get them back into housing. So the more we can do in keeping people in housing and reduce the inflow , it will help us with the outflow of getting people housed. So focusing on prevention services , focusing on shallow subsidy to bridge that housing affordability gap that we have so that we can keep seniors and housing and so less seniors become homeless. Um , and then exploring shared housing , those are some strategies that could work really well for our community , I think.
S5: I think , um , you know , as we really think about the future of homelessness , we need to start building up our systems now in preparation for what it's going to be. If we start the work today , we might be ready for then. Um , so we know by 2030 , every boomer will be over the age of 65. And we know seniors are our fastest growing population experiencing homelessness. So the housing and the affordability and the programs we start to ramp up , we have to take that all into consideration and really start Adapting. I know a lot of communities around the globe do the village model , right , where they're integrating our seniors with our younger population and our working families to kind of create a more cohesive environment that makes everybody healthier and it's more affordable. And that's something I think that the United States , and in particular , San Diego , can really start to explore about how do we build intentional communities of some of our most vulnerable population while establishing that , you know , that neighborhood , um , access to resources , access to support from each other ? Um , so I think as , as we develop our homeless services , that's that's something I'd like to see more of that can make a big impact.
S2: Greg , we've talked about a lot of challenging topics today. And so it can be easy to get kind of depressed about all of this or to get down on it. But I want to lean into something that you mentioned to non because it highlights a tremendous bright spot , which I think will be surprising to most people that , uh , last year throughout all of San Diego County , more than 10,000 people overcame homelessness and moved into a home. Over 10,000 people overcame homelessness. That's amazing. It's astonishing. Now , the bad news is that for 10,000 people who overcame homelessness , a larger number about 14,000 , actually fell into homelessness for the very first time. And that's really , really troubling. But it's much easier to prevent somebody from becoming homeless than it is to help somebody end their homelessness. For families , it's about $10,000 to end a family's homelessness. We usually can keep a family housed for for less than a couple thousand dollars. And like Shannon said , there are some really , um , telling indicators and trends. Um , I'll give you one , uh , seniors who who lose their partner , whose partner passes away , are many times more likely to fall into homelessness than any than other seniors in the exact same financial situation so we could develop a policy or develop a program to target homeless prevention specifically for seniors who have lost their , their , their , their partner. It would make a tremendous impact. There's there's a lot more we can do. But I think focusing on prevention and then we'll be able to see better the benefits of a of of a of providers and systems of care that again last year helped more than 10,000 people overcome homelessness.
S1: You all point to the need for affordable housing. And no we can't build south. You can't build west. Um , you can't build east because it's such a fire prone area.
S5: Right ? That's that is an option. But a lot of our communities and neighborhoods , right , who aren't in the flight path , right ? So there isn't a good designation of not doing it. Um , they will work very hard to make sure that we don't , you know , obstruct the view they might have of a certain location. Right. But , you know , we build 14 storey affordable housing , um , developments. Right ? That's that's an option that's available to us. But I think it just there's a lack of kind of courage and tenacity in our community to look at things differently and re-envision how to San Diego look , because we can't build , you know , West. We run into the ocean at some point. Right. And so I think we just have to kind of re-envision , I think if we were to put in the effort , we could address this issue. Right. It's just understanding that maybe that two story limit you have in your in your neighborhood , in your community planning group , that's that's not going to fly anymore. Right ? If we're serious about addressing this issue , we're serious about the cost of housing for serious about homelessness. And we need to start actually committing to these projects and building them. Um , but we can do it. I know we can do it and it seems daunting , but if we were to take the courage and , and effort we can overcome this.
S1: Here's another thing that I always feel like is left out of the conversation. Uh , we talk about affordable housing and we can only build up. Salaries could go up , wages could go up. Um , so that people can afford to , to live where they're living. How big of an issue do you all see that um , being.
S6: That's definitely an issue that we've seen as the cost of living has gone up. Uh , the pay has not gone up with it. So people are having to pay more for basic things , but their salaries and their wages aren't meeting those , um , needs. And so people are in debt. People are living paycheck to paycheck. And so if we were to look at that formula and say as a cost of living is going up , matching people's salaries to that so they could live , we're talking about just affordability of living. Um , and it's not making someone rich. I just think that's something we should really be exploring across the board.
S2: I agree , and also for people who are listening to this show , they care about homelessness. They probably they may be charitable supporters of organizations like ours , you know , support organizations that are paying livable wages to their entire workforces because it's a it's a huge need. And then I just want to echo or kind of go back to the question around housing , um , and point to a success story in the city of San Marcos , San Marcos has , per capita , more affordable housing than any other city in North County. Guess what ? Pretty low rate of homelessness. They've also helped. They've also developed , uh , an area called North City , uh , right next to Cal State University , San Marcos , where we're walkable , urban environment is being created and is being intentionally built , not just. And it does include some some affordable units as well. It also is going to be attracting people who will be leaving their single family homes. Those single family homes are then made available to to others. So it has a cascading effect. So it absolutely can can happen if we if we plan effectively.
S1: All right. Well , this was a very good conversation and enlightening as well. I've been speaking with Greg Angel , CEO of Interfaith Services. Greg , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you so much for having us.
S1: Also , Josh Bohannon , chief strategy officer at Father Joe's Villages. Josh , thank you. Thank you. And lastly , Hanan Scrapper , regional director for people assisting the homeless or path. Thank you so.
S6: Much for having us.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
