S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. On today's show , we're talking about the power of sound on our mind , body and soul. I'm Jade Hyndman with conversations that keep you informed and inspired and make you think. A scientist tells us when sounds may be helpful for our mental health and well-being.
S2: They may help people get into a better or more reflective mental space. They can provide distraction from negative thoughts.
S1: Then we'll hear specifically from a sound healer for the soul and a sound therapist for the mind. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Clearing the air. Now , today we are going to take you on a journey. A journey through sound. Music and sound therapy have been shown to have all kinds of benefits , from treating stress to chronic pain. Well , later this hour you'll hear some sound meditation in action. But first , let's dive into the science of sound. What's happening in your brain when you process sound from lyrics to music , chords and even rhythms. Joining me now to answer those questions is Sara Creel. She's a professor of cognitive science at UC San Diego who's done a lot of research on music perception. Professor , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Hello , and thanks for having me.
S1: So glad to have you here.
S2: A lot of different things to different people. It can range from studying how the brain responds to single notes or sounds all the way up to how people become more cooperative if they clap and time together. So it's quite a wide range of research areas , but they all centre around , um , how people listen to and experience music and what it means for their lives.
S1: Well , it's a very interesting part of science that not many people think about , but probably should.
S2: Until partway through my undergraduate degree at the University of South Carolina. I started out as a musician , a clarinetist , and I was going to be a band director to support my clarinet playing habit. And then I took a couple of psychology classes and realized that I was extremely curious about how people learn things , and especially how they learned patterns and sound , including spoken language and music.
S1: We perceive sound in all kinds of ways , from music to everyday language.
S2: So the first step we might think of the first step as something called transduction , which is where sound compression and decompression in the air or water , if you're hearing sound underwater , hits her eardrum , which then vibrates along with those compressions. That then triggers a series of events that turns those vibrations , sends those vibrations to an organ called the cochlea , which is a very tiny , snail shaped organ inside each of your ears. And it's kind of laid out inside , like almost like a piano keyboard. There aren't keys , but each different region is sensitive to a different frequency. And so different parts of your auditory nerve then fire Uh , as those different frequencies are activated , and then that gets sent from , sent to the lower regions of the brain. So the brain stem all the way up to the brain cortex , uh , initially primary auditory cortex and basically all over the brain to do recognition , to associate with other concepts , maybe to alert you. So if you hear a little bit of music , that's your phone telling you something , you might have some sort of orienting response like turning to find your phone. So or recognizing a word. All kinds of things happen while we're hearing sound.
S1: So some research has found that slower music has the ability to slow our heart rate and even lower stress hormones. How does that kind of music affect our emotions.
S2: So slow music can affect your emotions in a couple of ways. I like that you brought up the the slowness of music , because that's often linked to our perception of the emotion in music. Hearing slower music may contribute to putting you in a state of lower arousal , and in some cases , that's really good. So we've known for a long time , both from scientific studies and anecdotal experience , that slower music , in particular slow singing , can calm down fussy infants. And that was extremely true , especially for my younger daughter as a toddler. If I start singing to her and she's angry , she gets she gets angrier instead of calming down. But for babies , it works quite well. Um , you can also , sometimes people try to calm themselves down by listening to slower music. There is a possible downside to that , and that there's some research suggesting that for people with depressive tendencies , it's been linked to depressive rumination.
S1: And I want to get into that more. But but something piqued my interest that you said earlier and that is that , you know , slow music really helped to calm your your infant child down. it makes me think about how children learn , right ? Like you think about the ABCs. It's a song , you know ? Um , so much of what they learn is through music. So is there something , um , to maybe lyrics and the , the music itself , when paired together that reacts in our minds.
S2: That is a really interesting question as to whether there's a synergy between music and lyrics , and there is some research suggesting that people are a little bit better at remembering lyrics , um , if there's music that goes with it. So if you're just memorizing text , it's not as easy as if you're memorizing something that's sung. A number of years ago , I was involved in some work looking at memory recall and , um , ad jingles from commercials over the years. So , um , for whatever reason , music with spoken lyrics can be especially memorable. And once you hear a little bit of it , that triggers the recall of the rest of it. It also seems to be linked to recall of autobiographical memory. So maybe you hear a piece of music and it brings back a memory from your past , sometimes the distant past. Um , and so there has been some interest in using that with , um , older folks who maybe are experiencing memory difficulties , that maybe you can use music as a tool. So music from that , they would have heard when they were younger as a tool to aid with memory recall.
S1: Well , and then now that that since you've studied that area of like jingles , I want to know , um , what what makes a good jingle then ? I mean , is there something about pairing lyrics to music that maybe makes lyrics more palatable or memorable in our brain , I guess.
S2: That may be that may be some sort of trade secret in the advertising community. But what we know as music perception , the science of music perception suggests that there are certain beat rates , so maybe around 120 beats per minute is a good rate and also a lot of internal repetitiveness. So if you have a melody that repeats little elements over and over again , so something like Jingle Bells where it's jingle bells repeatedly and it doesn't change around a lot. Those , those repetitions seem to be really good at getting melodies to stick in your mind.
S1:
S2: And so musical events often are evenly spaced in time , and the brain can track and even predict when those beats are going to happen.
S1: Well , you know , I , like many people , um , often use an app that creates sound to go to sleep. What can you tell me about these different frequencies ? Like , for example , Brown noise , pink noise , green noise.
S2: One is that it may remind you of certain natural sounds like falling rain or perhaps ocean waves , sort of relaxing settings that you might be in. They can also block out other kinds of sounds that are maybe more sudden and might cause you to wake up and alert. So maybe your your washing machine saying that it's done or , uh , you know , the house creaking as it settles down to the temperature changes overnight. And , you know , those aren't particularly important things , but if there's no other sound present , you might be slightly disturbed from your sleep because of them. And so if you have if you have some white noise or other types of noise masking , that those are less likely to stick out and disturb you. Hmm.
S1: Well , moving away from that and sort of getting back into music , I mean , it isn't always good. You mentioned that music can actually have negative effects on our mood and possibly even our health. Tell me about that.
S2: There are a couple of ways in which music might have negative effects on your health and well-being. One is the the idea of rumination that I introduced earlier. So sometimes people , if they are feeling down or depressed , they listen to music that is that matches their mood. That may not be the best thing in the world because it might have them. It might cause them to continue ruminating on whatever negative thing has happened or that they are thinking a lot about that is keeping them in a in a depressive space. And there is some evidence that some people may use sad music as a stimulus to continue to ruminate. Other people will , who are feeling depressed will listen to music that they find inspiring or fun. And my interpretation of of some of the papers I've read about it is that they're distracting themselves. They're putting themselves in a better space , so they're using music to change their mood , or at least distract themselves from whatever negative thoughts or cycling in their mind. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , it makes me think of emo music , um , and emo rap , which has been criticized a lot. Um , some saying it's got a negative impact on one's mental health , while other people say it , it brings awareness about mental health issues and helps a lot of people see , feel seen.
S2: I guess you know what ? It's it's so interesting that you mentioned that because there there do seem to be differences amongst people in how much they empathize or identify with the music they're hearing. So it's possible to , for instance , see someone who looks upset and not feel upset yourself. But similarly with music , you can hear music and think , oh , that music sounds like it is sad without yourself feeling sad. And that may be something that differs between people. So some people may be more music sympathizers than others are , and those people are the ones who maybe shouldn't be listening to so much sad music. I think I might be one of those people. If I listen to sad music , I just I can't even stand it. I have to turn the radio off. Right.
S1: Right. You got to cut it. Well , and you're saying that makes me think back to a time where I was in a gym working out , and all of a sudden , like the music that was coming through the speakers just made me so anxious. Um , there was something happening internally , and I had to just. I had to stop and I had to ask them to cut the music off , because even when I stopped exercising , there was no relief from this. And I had to ask them to , to please cut the song off. Um , and I talked to a friend about that , and they were like , oh , it's because it was an an apathetic beat. Mm.
S2: Mm.
S1:
S2: Was it metal music ? Yes. Heavy metal.
S1: And it was a beat that went against my heart rhythm. Hmm.
S2: So I only know anaplastic beat from the sense of maybe ancient poetry. It's been a while since I've , you know , studied poetry. But one thing that I suspect is that there was a lot of maybe percussion instruments , um , and a very fast note rate. And we know that faster note rates make people more alert. And also that sounds instrument sounds that are more percussion. E so drums. That has a really sudden start to the note that those tend to be associated with higher arousal. And so it could be sometimes your arousal level can get too high. Maybe it was getting you past sort of the sweet spot in your arousal or alertness to to want to exercise. Sure.
S1: Sure. Well okay. So later in the show we'll hear about various techniques where sound is incorporated into healing from sound meditation to therapy.
S2: They can provide distraction from negative thoughts or negative External stimuli , such as pain. I you know , I have I have interacted a bit with the music therapy literature. It's a related literature to music perception , and it is extremely interesting. And I always wonder , you know , what is it about it that works ? Is it the music itself ? Is it interacting with a caring therapist , which is also a good thing , right. Um , but I'd be really. I'd love to see more research on how exactly music therapy has effects and when it has those effects versus when it doesn't.
S1:
S2: There are a lot of interesting mysteries about sound. I would say. Um , one thing is how do different types of sounds relate to each other ? So for instance , if you use pitch patterns to distinguish words in your language. Does that make you better at perceiving pitches in music ? There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that that's the case. So if someone speaks a language where pitch patterns contribute to meaning differences between words , then for instance Mandarin Chinese , Cantonese , Vietnamese. In addition to a number of African languages and indigenous languages of the Americas use pitch differences to convey meaning. Um , at at the word level. So things like mother versus cup that the difference between those words might be a pitch pattern. And so for people who speak those languages , there is some evidence that they are somewhat better at perceiving pitches in music. But the reasons why that happens and who it happens for are those are not clear. Some of the big questions of cognitive science generally ah , how much different domains of cognition relate to each other. And so if you do see these music language interactions , um , that would suggest that maybe the brain isn't lumping together of different modules that do different things , but it is a single organ and different , different abilities use the same brain regions. And so if music facilitates perception of language properties and language facilitates perception of music properties , then um , maybe language and music aren't controlled by completely separate , um , brain regions , which I think is pretty cool. But there are still lots of people who like to argue about that.
S1: Very , very interesting. Okay , um , before you go , I want to get your analysis of our show music and see what you think. Okay , Brandon. Okay.
S2: It communicates not too high a level of alertness , but moderate alertness. And it has something of a smokey sound. I somehow I associate jazz with , uh , kind of a kind of a smokiness in the air. I don't know what that means about about Midday Edition , but , um , I think it's I think I have positive associations.
S1: Well , thank you so much for for that feedback and for all of your insight today. This was a great conversation. I've been speaking with Sarah Kriel. She's a professor of cognitive science at UC San Diego. Professor Creel , thank you.
S2: Thank you so much , Jane.
S1: Coming up , how sound frequency can impact our health.
S3: Sound healing basically works with energy centers in your body , which we consider chakras. Every chakra resonates with a certain frequency.
S1: Hear more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. On today's show , we're discussing the transformative power of sound and music. The practice of sound healing dates back thousands of years , and it's a staple of cultural traditions across the world. Singing bowls originated from Nepal and northern India. Over the years , the practice has crossed borders and cultures.
S3: When you're ready , you can begin to start making movements from your fingers and from your toes. Please bring the awareness back to the body.
S1: Deep dosa has been leading sound meditation classes in San Diego for more than a decade. He took me through a session in the studio , and afterwards we sat down to talk about the experience of sound healing. Here's that conversation. So you just walked me through a sound meditation using all of this equipment. You've got what looks like various sizes of brass bowls. And I have to tell you , all of these sounds were almost otherworldly , the way that they came together. Tell me about some of the instruments you just used.
S3: So today we have used our singing bowls. We use the gong , a couple of tinctures , the bell. These are primary instruments that have been used in sound meditations for a long time.
S1:
S3: The oldest one that they found was about 2500 BC. So it's been the some of the story says like bond religion , um , which is like predates Buddhism. Uh , some of the first bowls we used by the bond religious people and then sound healing. Somebody in the Western community found out about the singing bowls , and I think it's been prevalent for less than 50 years , like where it's been introduced to more people. And now in the past 20 to 30 years , people have been really emphasizing on the use of sound as a healing tool.
S1: I mean , is it your understanding then , that like most cultures , most early cultures used some form of instrument , whether it was singing bowls or percussive instruments.
S3: And the voice itself , too ? Because the singing bowl is an introductory tool , especially for people who have never done any kind of meditations , this is like a simple tool that can bring you right in the moment. But traditionally , along with the instruments , one key tool is your voice that that that's always with you. So if you're able to use your voice as a tool , you can get like similar stages , like through chants , through , um , I'm like coming through , creating different sounds and vibrations that could work with your body as well too. So I think most cultures has some form of instruments or tools , or be the human body that you have been using it for healing invitations. Interesting.
S1: Interesting. And so for what kind of healing ? Talk to me a bit about that.
S3: So okay , we were going to talk about sound healing. Right. Um , sound healing basically works with energy centers in your body , which we consider chakras. Every chakra resonates with a certain frequency. Uh , like the root chakra deals with like , uh , the C is for the root chakra and D is for the sacral is for the solar plexus , F for the heart , G for the throat , E for the third , a and B for the crown. So when we are using different tools , different sounds , uh , resonating with certain parts of the body , and um , when we bring in an instrument , we are not like specifically working with your special issues , but we're providing all the tools. But then what happens later where you feel it ? What's happening is , uh , you're connecting with that particular sound , and then you can begin to know more what's going on in your body.
S1: Well , from from the research that we do have , what kinds of health and mental health benefits are connected to sound healing.
S3: So immediately stress , anxiety , headaches like migraines. If you're coming in with one of those issues and one of the sound meditations , by the end of the session , you can already see it like disappear or not be present anymore. But the deeper question is it's not just about one sound healing , but also it's also about the lifestyle. It's like how you along with , uh , just coming to a sound meditation , it's it's also important to have a practice that you can constantly be in that same state of , uh , from just the lightness and the to create the practices and important part of what we do as well , too.
S1: Well , I will say that I really find those deeper tones more , much more enjoyable. Um. Yes. Is that pretty much the case ? Always.
S4: Well , I think.
S3: Like , if usually the deeper sounds does give you , I mean , put you in that space that creates that ambience and you're able to go deeper. But , um , some of the people with some kind of imbalances might be able to like the higher sounds as well. So what you felt with the gong , um , the lower part. Right. Some people are able to bring it up really high , and people like that shattering sound , which we usually don't recommend doing in a sound meditation , but because there are some people who don't , uh , like that chattery sound , I mean , they're most people who don't like the shattering sound.
S1: Yes.
S4: Yes.
S3: So similarly , like , um , the bowls also does the same thing too , right ? I mean , the bigger bowls are used again to go much deeper. But then the higher tones , like , especially when we work on the third eye , right ? We find a really high bowl that you place on the top of your forehead and tap it. And then that tends to work with the higher like chakras as well too. But um , the preference is usually most people prefer the deeper tones.
S1: Yeah , it seems relaxing I'll say that. Yeah , but you mentioned the third eye.
S3: Chakras are talking about the chakras. There are seven different energy centers in the body. I mean , not just seven there. It's assumed that there are over 500 , um , chakras all over the body. And then third eye tends to be , uh , your insight , your ability to see what you see beyond your physical eyes. Right ? Sometimes , like , um , you think something is real. When you look at yourself in the mirror , you move your right , your left hand moves , or it's just the opposite. So even when you see things , uh , it it might not be true. So when you close your eyes With your intuition , you're able to see experience your previous experiences and that can create your own answers , especially in moments like that.
S1: Very interesting. So , you know , mindfulness is is really encouraged while you're absorbing these sounds. Um , what's your advice for getting into that state.
S3: Like I was mentioning earlier , like it's important to have a practice , right ? I mean , for me , when I get up first thing in the morning , then , um , uh , like I do my prayers and I create that connection in the morning and in the evening before dinner. So it's like when you create this , uh , when you take time for yourself , even though , like , let's say in the eastern tradition , we focus on prayers , uh , when we use the chance , when we use , um , the incense , the lighting , the ceremony , we basically , even though we feel like we are taking ourselves out of the equation and giving that moment , uh , to be the God , be the teacher , be it somebody beyond yourself. So when you're able to do that , you're able to separate everything that your worries , your stress , your everything , at least for that particular moment , and you find yourself in the moment just doing one activity at the same time. So with mindfulness , with meditation , if you're able to create a practice , I wouldn't say it's like you try to close your eyes right now and your mind shuts right away. And that's not necessarily the goal of meditation , the to create a practice. It's like whatever you do , whatever little thing that you are doing , you just be it your breath , be taking a shower , be it , uh , anything , gardening , whatever activity that you are doing , if you're able to slow it down to a pace and just focus on that activity , that's creating mindfulness right there. So it's not usually about like shutting your mind off and trying to just go for longer periods of time. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. Yeah.
S1:
S3: So it's like not necessarily what my intent of the sound meditations would be , but usually some of the meditations we ask people to set the intentions in the beginning of a session. Right ? So you have setting the intentions of how you want because I mean , like you know yourself better than anyone else. So what we provide , what we are providing are the sounds and vibrations. But what the body chooses to do with it is based upon what the person is bringing in.
S1: Well , deep. I'm also interested in your story. You moved here from Nepal nearly 20 years ago.
S4:
S3: Uh , then , um , I was able to. So it's like even now , like when we talk about the big sun meditations , uh , we call it the Living sound meditation because it's not , uh , uh , a set thing that's going to happen every week. It's about , uh , who comes in , what people bring in. So similarly , I was able to , um , learn different techniques from different people. And then I believe it was 2004 at five when somebody asked me to do a demonstration. And then , uh , that was for about 40 something people in Encinitas. And then from there it just took off. And people because not a lot of people had experienced some meditations before. So since that point , we've been able to work with a couple of hospitals , the Chopra Center , um , some schools. It's it's been quite a journey. I mean , even though , um , I think this is a spiritual work for me as well. So when people started donating. We set up a nonprofit organization and we put all the money towards there. And the tradition has continued. Even now , we have sometimes up to 22 , 23 musician comes in the volunteers , the time and all the funds that we raise. It goes towards children that we support in Nepal. So it's been it's been a wonderful journey for sure. Excellent.
S4: Excellent.
S1:
S3: I think one , uh , story we had , uh , somebody who we lost , uh , to cancer , but when she was going to chemotherapy , I mean , we have known she was a yoga teacher. We have known her. I had known her for quite a few years. And then when she was going to chemotherapy , the energy drained , like , I mean , you could see the tiredness , uh , um , after the session. But then when we did a sound meditation , she was able to bring back that life into the body as well too. So it's like when you see instances like that , when you see it's helping people. I mean , that's really satisfying. It just puts you in a spiritual high all the time.
S1: So that's really I've been speaking with deep D.O.J. He has been leading sound meditation classes in San Diego for over a decade deep. Thank you so much and thank you for my sound meditation.
S4: Thank you , thank you.
S1: Still to come. How lyrics layered with music could influence our thinking.
S5: When we put these positive affirmations to the elements of music such as melody , harmony , different areas of the brain are lighting up all at the same time.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition returns after the break. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Everyone loves music , from hip hop to jazz to country. There's something for everyone. But did you know that listening to music can promote health and even manage disease symptoms ? Well , there's a whole health profession doing just that. It is called music therapy. And these therapists are trained to help patients express emotion , enhance memory , and even manage pain through the help of music. Nonprofit resounding Joy brings music therapy to seniors , children and veterans in the San Diego community. Joining me now is Carrie Fox , CEO and Executive director. Carrie , welcome.
S6: Thank you for having us.
S1: So glad to have you here. Also , Alicia Coleman , she's a board certified music therapist with resounding joy. Alicia , welcome.
S5: Thank you so much.
S1: So , Carrie , I'm going to start with you.
S6: A lot of people think about music performance versus music therapy. Um , music therapy is the use of certain music interventions , such as instruments , singing , movement , dancing and a wide range that Alicia will get into. Music therapy can help in many , many ways for both mental health as well as physical health.
S1: Well , and so , you know , if you could , Alicia , tell me a bit about what differentiates music therapy from traditional talk therapy.
S5: The clinical definition of music therapy is individualize treatment goals that are non-musical. So in music therapy we are not teaching to play an instrument or any elements of music , but we're teaching how to achieve individualized goals through the use of music interventions. Some examples of the goals can be speech development , cognitive stimulation , communication , uh fine and gross motor skills. And in terms of your talk therapy question , um , we can utilize talk therapy within music therapy through something we call lyric analysis , taking a song that might have a topic , and a further discussing the lyrics of that song. Hmm.
S4: Hmm. Well , take.
S1: Me into your practice.
S5: Um , let's go ahead and start with with kiddos. Um , I've worked in everywhere from the NICU at the hospital with premature infants up through end of life , older adults up to age 100. And so starting with the kiddos , one of the practices I do , if we had it an infant or a baby with possible a developmental delays or health concerns. Music can be beneficial to regulation of of their physiological system as they might be underdeveloped. We can use even sensory stimulation through the instrument to promote that sensory input that they might not otherwise receive. If , for example , they're stuck in the hospital bed and they haven't developed an ability to to move very much.
S1: Well , Alicia , um , you brought some instruments in with you. Can you give me a quick demonstration ? Absolutely.
S5: So , um , one thing that I wanted to talk about today was in music being used in , in mental health and in the veteran population. A lot of times that that can be a struggle through PTSD or other mental health Concerns in the lives of veterans. And one thing I like to do with them is using what we call chance , which goes back to this idea of positive affirmation. So we know that positive affirmations can reshape the way we think. Involving billions of neurons in the brain. Um , connecting these through these electrical impulses along pathways in your brains. But when we put these positive affirmations to the elements of music such as melody , harmony , um , tempo , rhythm , dynamics , different areas of the brain are lighting up all at the same time , and they're able to connect with each other more than if we were just speaking them out loud. But when we put them to song , when we put them to a rhythm , then it actually makes a bigger imprint. So we're able to remember these positive affirmations. So I brought in one positive affirmation that I like to put to a drum. And the reason I put this to the drum is because our gross and fine motor , functioning as we are drumming , is also lighting up an area of the brain in addition to our speech and language. And so that's going to build even stronger connections. So I go ahead and teach the group this beat here. And we're going to add this dialogue. I am blessed I am blessed even when I'm here feeling like a mess. This life has shown me all kinds of stress and also opened up my heart like.
S7: The greatest treasure chest I have grown , I have grown , and I'm finding my way home.
S5: So for example , in a group setting , I would get that going and we would repeat it as many times as we feel led to. And then afterwards we would have a discussion on what those lyrics might mean to you. And because we sang them over and over and over again , it gives us a chance to really process. And like I said , it gives a chance to build those neural connections between the different areas that are being stimulated. As we play in rhythm and we sing and we follow the the tempo and the rhythm. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. Well , I really received that.
S1: Um , Carrie , earlier you mentioned working with seniors , especially those experiencing memory loss.
S6: It could also be a medical caregiver. Um , to make sure we understand what it is they're working through. And our therapist will come up with individualized goals. So it could be , like I had mentioned , someone who was less verbal or someone who is just less engaged , um , or having a harder time processing or even staying focused. So with that older adult , the interventions would be it could be some of the things that we've talked about , whether it's chanting or they're coming up with words , or maybe it's just listening to songs from their youth that may trigger some memories. Um , and we also then do group sessions with older adults , and we'll work both with , well , older adults in senior facilities as well as ones in the memory care , um , and do a lot of things that will also help , not just with memory , but also with , um , a leaving in a social isolation or because a lot of them are less engaged. So one of the measures we always look at is how engaged was the group ? And if there are people who are not. What I've seen therapists do very adeptly is they're working in a group of ten people , but they are literally focusing on each one and trying to meet them where they are and figure out a way to get them involved in the group.
S1: And Alicia , I want to hear more about how music therapy can benefit veterans.
S5: Um , had limited musical training , but what they wanted to do was write a song about their experience. Um , and , um , the feedback I got after this process of writing and recording and hearing their song back , Um , and all of the the journey of emotions they , they had gone through throughout their lives , um , was beyond beyond meaningful to them in just a way to process their experiences. And we know that , um , with trauma. Um , it , it needs to be processed to be healed and putting something on paper , putting something in an audio recording through an instrument can be all part of the process.
S1: Well , and sort of just , uh , looking at a word of caution , I guess , you know , as therapeutic as music can be , um , for so many people.
S5: And when I spent a lot of time working more in intensive mental health treatment units , I did see this. I saw clients who may have been fixated on certain songs that tended to dwell more on the negativity that we were avoiding , and we were working to counteract those thoughts. So what can happen when you have such a strong preference to music is that you can get so connected to the artist or the song , and it can kind of start to become your identity , and you need to be aware of what you're actually feeding yourself through those lyrics. And I know for myself , I've had to catch myself with , I think back to when I was a teenager and , and music. That was when music. It really hit me so deeply that I would find a lot of refuge in listening to my favorite artists and songs. And sometimes I look back and I thought , well , those lyrics weren't the healthiest to really fixate on because you hear them on on repeat and you repeat the song and you sing them over and over again. But of course , there's an element of finding comfort in being validated by some of those thoughts through an artist that you admire. But the next step of that is to really examine. Is this helpful for me to dwell on ? And and that's where I'm choosing how to interact with music is it's important to be educated about how we choose to interact with music to to benefit us. Mhm.
S4: Mhm.
S1:
S6: And on the flip side , if we're trying to elicit memories , we're going to go so that the goal of the individual or the group is going to help determine what kind of music. So if it's energetic music or if the goal is relaxation , you know , if we're in the hospital , it's probably going to be calmer. We might do classical versus rock. As she was saying , you know , the lyrics , but as well as the beat and the tempo can make a difference as to how our body reacts to it.
S1: Well , all very interesting. I've been speaking with Kerry Fox , CEO and Executive Director of Resounding Joy. Thank you so much , Kerry.
S4: Thank you.
S1: And also Alicia Coleman , board certified music therapist with resounding joy. Alicia , thank you very much.
S5: Thank you for having us.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
