S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. Against the backdrop of more dangerous winds in our region , we are talking about wildfire preparedness and the conditions that led to Ella's devastation. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and engaged. Make the case for everyone to be prepared for wildfires.
S2: A lot of people think that it's not going to happen where they live because , for example , they live close to the coast or they live in areas that are like highly urbanized. But we've seen with these fires in L.A. how that's not the case.
S1: Plus , hard truths about climate change and the growing threat of fire in the region. And then we revisit an interview with an author who writes about a little girl whose life is upended by wildfire. That's ahead on Midday Edition. After the heartbreaking damage caused by wildfires in Los Angeles over the past week. I think a lot of us are thinking about ways we can better protect ourselves and our communities from wildfire. We wanted to talk more about wildfire preparedness on the show today , and here to help us do that are Mike Cornett from Cal Fire. Mike , welcome back to Midday Edition.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S1: Glad to have you here. Also , Luka Carmen Yani , who researches wildfires as an assistant professor at San Diego State University. Welcome. Thank you. Well , I wanted to get your reaction to what we've been seeing out of Los Angeles this past week. Luka.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S3: And this is typically what we see in August , September and October. But this , uh , really drives the the point home that we're not in a fire season anymore. We're in a fire year. Uh , we've had these large fires statewide and even in Southern California in all months of the year.
S1: And you mentioned , you know , how extreme all this can be. I heard last week's events referred to as a firestorm. The video certainly looked like that.
S3: It was very devastating to the communities. And , uh , unfortunately , there was a lot of property loss and life loss involved in that. Right.
S1: Right. And even a fire , NATO , uh , siding at some point.
S3: The fire NATO , uh , is a term that the public uses. But there are certain situations in fire behavior where you do get that vortex of fire. Uh , there's certain , uh , atmospheric conditions that have to happen , but that is typically , uh , in extreme events that you see a lot of fire. A lot of a lot of consumption of fuels and , uh , high winds in those areas.
S1:
S3: So that's the moisture that's in the vegetation. Uh , we're below a critical level on that because we haven't had any precipitation as of this point in this water year , which started in October. Uh , so the fuel is only getting drier each time we get these Santa Ana winds systems that come through and literally suck the moisture out of out of the plants.
S1:
S2: Look at the state of their house. Everybody has a different home depending on the era of construction and the state of the building component. So start from there. Look at , for example , the vents that if they're ember resistant and sometimes you just need to replace the screen , the metal mesh of the , of the vents and to make them resistant to embers. And then look at some of the vulnerabilities. For example , if the roof has cracks or the gutters are filled with leaves or other material that can ignite easily. And then look at the first few feet around the home to make sure that there's nothing that can really burn and basically bring the fire close to the structure. And then once those things are done , take a look at the landscape. Try to avoid a continuity of things that could burn and that could be , for example , an horizontal path that could lead to a house , for example , a fence that is attached to the siding of the wall , or a vertical path. For example , if you have a bush that is underneath a tree , or a bush that is underneath the eaves , that can create a path for the fire to reach the structure. So focusing on those aspects can definitely make a big difference.
S1: Aside from the exterior of the home , you know , Mike , we often hear about having a go box ready.
S3: So that includes having enough water and food for you and your family to make sure that you have all of the important documents , such as your passport , any important documents that that are irreplaceable , and you want to have that by your door ready to go , or if even if in your car , so you can leave at a moment's notice and you're not having to scramble at the last second to , to try to find all of these items. So preparedness in that aspect is key.
S1: You mentioned important documents.
S3:
S1: Birth certificates.
S4: Birth certificate.
S1: Cards ? Yes.
S3: Okay.
S1: Okay. You know , Mike , what do you think ? People tend to get wrong with wildfire preparedness.
S3: I think people try to do as much as they can to protect their home , not only from the outside , from the inside. Uh , but I think that the biggest issue that we've seen is , uh , not heeding the warnings of officials when it comes to Evacuations. We don't take evacuations lightly when we. We issue those orders. We're working hand in hand with our law enforcement partners to come up with a plan to make sure that we're keeping our residents safe and our firefighters safe. So if you do receive that evacuation order , that is a a advisory that we need you to leave immediately so we can , uh , not only try to save your property , but to save your life.
S1: And , Luca , what's your perspective on that ? Yeah.
S2: When I was giving presentations to community members , something that came up very often is that a lot of people think that it's not going to happen where they live because , for example , they live close to the coast or they live in areas that are like highly urbanized. But we've seen with these fires in L.A. how that's not the case. There's always the risk. Embers can fly away from , you know , four miles away from the fire line. So a lot of people can be at risk. And it's important to them to understand that that can happen to us as well.
S1: Well , and I think you also , you know , you like to emphasize the idea of it takes a village when it comes to wildfire. Um , can you sort of expand on that , Lucca ? Yes.
S2: I believe that fire preparedness involves different levels of the community. It starts from the residents , but also it requires collaborations with fire officials and local officials to better plan not only the , um , you know , the preparedness of the homes , but also the response to a fire. As we mentioned before , like the evacuation part. That's a very , very important aspect. And if you have , for example , some , um , some , um , demonstrations or some , uh , community based events that to basically connect the fire responders with the community members , that can have a big impact because unfortunately , only one house that is prepared in the neighborhood is not enough. And sometimes having these community events. Neighbor talking to neighbor can really help being more proactive.
S1: And you know , when it comes to vegetation or landscaping , you say a lot of it comes down to spacing. What do you mean by that ? Yeah.
S2: So a lot of people tend to focus on the species. You know , some plants tend to be more flammable than others depending on for example , if it's a grass like plant. But it really comes down to the maintenance. And that means that if you take care of your plants that are well irrigated , you remove the dead materials and you create a spacing between them. And with spacing , I mean a distance , not just horizontally but also vertically. We call sometimes those fields as ladder fields. If you have , you know , a path for the fire to go from the ground to higher levels , you know , for example , from grass to a bush and from bush to a tree. So , uh , eliminating those paths can really , uh , make a big impact in terms of reducing the risk. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. And , you know , like you mentioned before , it takes a village. What if we're concerned about vegetation in a neighbor's yard. Any tips on how to handle that. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So um Cal Fire I'm sure Mike can talk more about this. Uh , already has regulations in place to , uh , give guidelines about how to manage the vegetation and the property. And if it's not part of , you know , your property. For example , 100ft , that could be an HOA , or there could be a community plan. And there are some examples in Orange County , LA and San Diego counties where , uh , you know , communities have done some fuel reduction work around those neighborhoods. Unfortunately , it's not enough. We've seen that in Orange County with the coastal fire , where the community had a lot of , um , a pretty good defensible space. But , uh , some of those homes were still vulnerable from embers. So vegetation management is one of the aspects. Working on the buildings is another very important aspect. And they're both necessary.
S1: Well , your research focuses on the interaction between vegetation and structures and how fire can spread. And you touched on this. Um , but do you have advice for homeowners or renters on things they may want to reevaluate in and around their yards ? Yes.
S2: So , um , San Diego County and other counties have guidelines on what plans are deemed safer than others. But again , uh , the issue that I have is that not all the times those recommendations are based on scientific testing. They're mostly based on qualitative observations. But again , it really comes down to the maintenance of those plans. If you have a lot of woody plants , for example , shrubs or little trees , you know , close to the eaves. Those are vulnerable spots that you might take care of. And sometimes it requires the removal of the plant , but in most cases it just requires like some trimming and pruning and basically , um , well , taking care of the , of those plants.
S1: Well , Mike , what about smoke from wildfires ? I mean , you know , we you may not actually be in an evacuation zone or immediate danger from flames , but the smoke has this very wide reach. Can you talk about the dangers of that and how people can limit their exposure ? Yeah.
S3: So smoke is , uh , essentially unburned fuels. Uh , it's it's kind of a carbon based , uh , in the air , and it's very wide reaching. Uh , I did see it off of our coast , uh , the last couple days. Uh , and these these wildland fires are such a large , large scale event that that smoke is going to travel where the wind pushes it. Uh , so there are , uh , are instances where if people are sensitive to smoke , uh , that they might be affected by that , uh , that , that smoke drifting. So some of the things that you could do are , uh , to if you're in a heavy smoke area is , uh , stay indoors , turn on your , uh , HVAC system. So you're recirculating the air inside. If you do have to go outside , you could wear a , uh , N95 mask or something similar to keep that that , uh , that particulate out of your lungs.
S1:
S3: Uh , it just depends on , uh , how close you are to the fire. Uh , the concentration of those , uh , the smoke.
S1:
S2: One is air now of the EPA , And another one is actually with also the Apple weather maps. Uh , they can also give you the air quality index in your area. Okay.
S1: Okay.
S3: Org. Uh , we also have , uh , locally here. Alert San diego.org that has a lot of resources. You can sign up for emergency alerts. Uh , through that , you can make sure that your phone is registered for Alert San Diego. And it also is in different languages as well. Uh , not only English.
S1:
S3: Uh , we'll give you real time instant fact sheets. It has interactive maps with 3D fire perimeters that you can move around and see exactly where that fire has progressed. And you can see all of our air tankers and helicopters , uh , in real time in their locations , in the air.
S1: And , Luca , I know you've got more resources too.
S2: Yes , there's the UK Norway Fire Network is the University of California Agriculture and Natural resources. They have a website with plenty of information about preparing your home , landscaping and also an evacuation bag.
S1:
S3: It's an application for your phone. Our our county is split up into different zones. And anytime that we issue evacuation orders or warnings , the map will change colors. And if you figure out what zone you live in , you can subscribe to that zone. And any time that that zone changes status , it'll give you an alert to your to your phone.
S1: And Luca , earlier you mentioned just taking small actions , like adjusting our events and how that can make an impact on our homes.
S2: You know , look at possible vulnerabilities. There is also the San Diego Resource Conservation District that has a free home assessment program in San Diego County. So that can be a resource that , you know , can be leveraged and that can help you addressing some of the main risks of the house. And , you know , there's a lot of simple and relatively cheap actions that can be taken. Not all those preparedness actions are expensive. So I will start from those. And just by reducing the risk of , you know , the most vulnerable components again , uh , it can , uh , make it or it can actually make a big difference if a fire comes.
S1: I've been joined by San Diego State professor Luca magnani. Luca , thank you so much. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
S1: Along with Mike Cornett from Cal Fire. Mike. Thank you.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S1: You can find more wildfire resources and tips on our website at KPBS. Coming up , a major factor increasing California's risk for wildfire.
S5: It's without question that climate change does play an important role in this and other disasters to come.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. The wildfire sweeping through the Los Angeles area are unprecedented. The loss is immense and it could take years for residents to rebuild. We may see devastation like this more often. Studies show climate change can exacerbate wildfires and the conditions that lead to them. I'm here with Varun Shivaram. He's a senior fellow for energy and climate at the Council on Foreign Relations , a think tank based in New York and DC. He's here to talk about the link between climate change and the ongoing wildfires , and what can be done to address it. Varun , welcome to midday.
S5: Jade , thanks so much for having me.
S1: We're glad to have you here. So , had conditions in L.A.
S5: Well , that part's unclear as to whether climate change was 50% of this or less or more. But it's without question that climate change does play an important role in this and other disasters to come. But beyond some of the obvious consequences of climate change , that the world's getting hotter , there are other consequences that are often very nuanced or difficult to predict. We don't know how much climate change has affected the Santa Ana wind conditions. In fact , some studies predict that climate change will reduce Santa Ana wind conditions during some parts of the season , notably not the winter. And we don't know whether other environmental conditions that have just been unconventional or unpredicted are a result of climate change or just statistical variability. I will say that many of these individual variables , such as really high Santa Ana winds , are not unprecedented in isolation , but together , the combination of everything the excess precipitation , the bone dry conditions of the last six months , the high Santa Ana winds , the underlying hot conditions , all of them coming together. That combination , that cocktail , is what led to this catastrophic outcome. And you layer in on top of that , the fact that the economic value of the property development in these areas is higher than ever. So 50 or 100 years ago , without the extensive property development , high economic value in the area , not only would you have had less damage , but the fire might have spread less quickly among manmade structures.
S1: That's an interesting point there.
S5: I actually don't think there's a lot of hope in the coming decades that these conditions get better. In fact , there's almost no hope that they get better. And there's it's almost a certainty that they will get worse. Climate change is accelerating , not slowing down. And nations around the world are increasing , not decreasing the amount of amount of greenhouse gas , climate warming , pollution that they're spewing into the atmosphere are predominantly from burning fossil fuels , the consumption of which continues to grow , not decline. So my answer here is climate change will continue. The world currently is on pace for by the end of the century , to be on average , 3.1 degrees warmer than preindustrial averages. That's way higher. That's way higher than the goal that the world set with the Paris Agreement in 2015 to keep global temperatures to two degrees C , if not the more aspirational target of 1.5°C. So we're on track to just blow through those targets as a result of accelerating climate change. We're going to see more intense and more frequent wildfires all up and down the West Coast and all around the world. We'll see more intense hurricane events and storm surges. We'll see sea level rise , uh , for example , on the eastern seaboard of the of the United States. Almost every part of the United States will be affected by climate change. Though some regions will be affected more than others. So there isn't much hope that the conditions that make for disastrous wildfires will abate in the coming decades. Therefore , the key question is what can we do to prepare for a warming world ? That I think after we take stock of and rebuild from these catastrophic California fires , that's got to be the first issue on the agenda. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely. But you know , all that in mind. I want to go back to something that you said in your previous response about these really expensive homes continuously being built. And if there if this happened several years ago , there wouldn't be this much damage likely. What do you know about the policies around building homes in California and even the current state of homeowners insurance.
S5: Yeah , it's a great question. Look , we're in a new regime now with homes in these in this wildland urban interface where massive fires can spiral out of control very , very quickly. These Southern California fires resulted in superheated embers being blown by 50 mile an hour gusts in such a way that the fire was simply uncontainable. It raced from manmade structure to manmade structure. Previously , if you had a fire in a forested area , firefighters could set up a perimeter. They had some time half a day. Now that time isn't there. Now why , you might ask , are these structures here in the first place ? As economic development progresses , folks want to expand urban regions. These areas have become desirable locations to build beautiful properties , right ? The Pacific Palisades neighborhood is a. Before these fires was a gorgeous neighborhood with forested areas views of the ocean. However , it was probably inadvisable to build such such structures in these and other areas of United States , whether you're on the Miami coastline or in a wildfire prone region in California , and there are distorted economic incentives both to build new properties in disaster prone areas and to continue to live in existing properties in disaster prone areas. In California , for the last several decades , the insurance regime has been absolutely distorted. Look , it's well intentioned in that the insurance regulators , thanks to a direct democracy proposition in California , the insurance regulators prevented insurance companies from raising rates too much every year. That kept insurance rates lower for homeowners , which made homeowners happy. But that sent the absolutely wrong economic signal. It sent the signal that you could build in an area and not have to pay the full actuarial cost of living there. The full risk weighted cost of a disaster would destroy your home. The other problem , the distortion or effect of this California regulation , was that insurance companies weren't allowed to use future looking models. This is mind boggling. A future looking model is a model that says the climate is going to get warmer in the future than it was in the past. Of course , you don't want an insurance company to try and determine your rates based on just looking at the past if the climate is changing. On December 30th , 2024 , a few days before these fires , California finally changed these regulations. But after decades of distortions in insurance rates that have encouraged development in the wrong areas , a catastrophe happened. Now , going forward , what's the medicine ? The medicine is tough. The medicine is Insurance policies need to reflect the true actuarial costs of ensuring a home. That means that in many places that are disaster prone , insurance is either going to become exorbitantly expensive or it won't be available at all. And that's kind of the point. You don't want people building expensive properties in areas that can be ravaged by disaster , and if they do , they better have the means to be able to self-insure those properties. If they're not going to buy private insurance. Because at the end of the day , what ends up happening , whether it's Hurricane Helene or the Southern California wildfires , the broad American taxpayer is ultimately going to end up bearing some of the costs , or the California taxpayer will end up bringing some of the costs of bailing out those who purchased Actuarially inaccurate insurance policies. That's not a sustainable regime going forward , as climate change causes an increasing cadence of natural disasters. Therefore , the the correct solution for insurance is to expose customers to the correct cost of insurance and likely depopulate areas of this country that are going to be prone to extremely high risks. Now , that sounds like a lot of doom and gloom. So there is another strategy to pursue in tandem. And that other strategy is to dramatically ramp up our effort and our capabilities in the added states to respond to climate disasters.
S1:
S5: Look , we're in the wake of a terrible tragedy right now. The focus should be just on the victims , their homes , their livelihoods and rebuilding their lives. But as soon as we get through this , what's very important is looking ahead , making some of those hard trade offs. We should not have expensive economic development under distortions incentives in places that are prone to hurricanes , floods and wildfires. That means that you're right. We will have a housing shortage , an infrastructure shortage in parts of the country. And that's kind of the point. Americans are going to have to migrate over the course of the century to areas of the country that are safer from climate induced disasters. It's a terrible price to pay , and I wish we weren't in the situation. And we have the world's greenhouse gas emissions to blame. But given where we are , and given that we need to prepare for a warming climate , Americans need to move to safer places , and our regulations need to support development in states and communities that are less prone to disasters. And that picture , that map is going to evolve as we further study climate science and understand the likelihood of disasters around the world and build more and more granular and accurate actuarial models of the risks of living in different communities. And it does mean that some of the most beautiful places in United States , places with beautiful coastal views and forest views , great nature , those are going to need to become off limits to human development.
S1:
S5: Middle America is safer than the coasts. As I mentioned , virtually no corner of the United States will be untouched by the ravages of climate change. But some areas will , in fact be safer than others. And so in a zip code , by zip code basis , there will be safer zip codes and less safe zip codes. Your question is , if Americans move from less safe zip codes to more safe zip codes , will we change the trajectory of the climate crisis ? And the answer is absolutely not. It will only change the trajectory of how much damage we face. Economic damage , loss of life. But it will not change the amount of greenhouse gas emissions that the world pours into the atmosphere. Remember , the edited states is a small part of this. Today we're 11% of global emissions. But what really matters is that for the next 75 years , what's the cumulative amount of emissions that any country is going to emit ? We're less than 5% of that total. 95% or more of those emissions are going to come from outside of American borders. There's basically nothing America can do within our borders with our emissions to matter in the context of global climate change. Foreign greenhouse gas emissions are causing American loss of life and American economic damage. That's the correct way to think about it. So no , we can't solve the climate crisis by moving to safer places , but we can help to save our own lives and our own livelihoods.
S1:
S5: Alongside nuclear war and an all out bioterror incident , there is virtually nothing else that matters as much as this. And if the $50 billion or more of damage from the Palisades Fire and the lives lost through the hurricane season , the Atlantic hurricane season in 2024 didn't teach us that. I don't know what will. If Russia invaded Ukraine , the United States spends tens of billions of dollars and a lot of foreign policy attention that's warranted. That's a very serious great power aggression in Europe. But the impact to America pales in comparison with the damage that climate change wreaks. The correct way to think about this is for each of these natural disasters a wildfire , a hurricane , a storm surge , sea level rise. It's as if foreign greenhouse gas emissions , China Burning coal. India. Burning coal. These countries have launched missiles at the United States. Now , the analogy kind of breaks down because they haven't launched them intentionally per se , but it's in the United States interest for countries around the world to reduce their carbon dioxide emissions and methane emissions. And if they don't , if they choose other goals instead of they choose to burn coal for development reasons or because it's just too complicated to switch to renewable energy , that profoundly degrades American national security. And it should be at the very top of our military , diplomatic and economic statecraft agenda to coerce and incentivize other countries to change their greenhouse gas emission trajectory. There is no higher priority. And so if the United States is , let's say , the large one of the largest export markets for the country of India , there are economic tools at our disposal that we can marshal to induce a country like India or other trading partners to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions , it's time to start using them.
S1: You've really been giving us the hard realities here that we face.
S5: Those targets are unrealistic two degrees C by the end of the century. Net zero emissions by mid-century. The United States really doesn't control them. So we have to prepare first and foremost for a warming world. We talked a little bit about what steps we'd take to do that. Reforming insurance incentives , ensuring that we invest heavily in adaptation and resilience. For example , upgrading building codes , etc.. But in addition to preparing for a warming world , the United States should recognize the hard reality that we have very little control over the trajectory of that warming of global climate change and that there May 10th , 20 , 50 years from now be a requirement for the United States to act unilaterally or with a small group of partners to do extreme actions , such as geoengineering. Geoengineering , which means directly interfering with the Earth's climate , is a dicey prospect , but it may be our only prospect if we fail to convince , persuade and coerce the world's countries to stop polluting with climate warming greenhouse gas emissions. And so geoengineering approaches might look like reflecting sunlight back into the atmosphere by injecting aerosols into the stratosphere or increasing the ocean's uptake of greenhouse gas emissions. So there's a lot of unpalatable options that we might have to look to. And I wouldn't stop short of military action ten , 20 , 50 years from now. If we can't solve through diplomatic means the world's greenhouse gas emissions problem.
S1: What do you see happening in the next four years.
S5: Under President Trump ? I think you'll see a lot of noise. Most of what you read about is not actually going to matter. It doesn't matter that President Trump will pull the United States out of the Paris climate agreement. The Paris climate agreement to begin with did not matter , because countries were never going to solve the climate crisis through a legal agreement and cooperation and allocation of reductions and emissions , or voluntary pledges to reduce their emissions. So I don't actually anticipate that what Trump does , President Trump does on the international stage in terms of withdrawing from Paris or on the domestic stage in terms of withdrawing incentives for clean energy technologies such as electric vehicles. I don't anticipate that that will make any difference at all to the world's fight against climate change. What I do believe would make a difference is if President Trump succeeds in persuading Congress to pull back incentives for the development of breakthrough technologies , clean energy technologies that could make a global clean energy transition cheaper and faster. Or if President Trump opts not to invest in geoengineering research. Or if President Trump opts not to make climate change and foreign greenhouse gas emissions a national security priority that we care about far more than Middle East conflict. Because if we don't do these things and take this seriously and do our best to prioritize avoiding the next $50 billion disaster and instead focus our resources and our policymaker attention on a series of second tier issues in comparison , then we invite further destruction and loss of life. That would be an error of judgment , in my opinion.
S1:
S5: I have friends who lost their homes. My career actually started in the Palisades District. I inaugurated a solar farm at a car wash in the Palisades that appears to be within the fire zone as a Los Angeles City official. So my heart goes out to everybody who has lost property , loved ones , homes. But going forward , we need to be smart. We need that three pronged strategy of intelligent economic incentives to discourage development in the riskiest areas , much more capable and muscular adaptation resilience strategies , from firefighting resources to building codes and a stepped up national prioritization that climate change is one of the worst , if not the worst , national security threat that America faces today. And third , in Los Angeles to mitigate future risk. It's going to be important to do as much as we can on things like brush management and vegetation management today , environmental processes such as The federal Nepa regulation and state environmental regulations actually make it difficult to invest in the forest management practices that would really reduce wildfire risk. On its own , it's not a silver bullet , but we need all of these strategies to adapt to and build resilience to future wildfires in the region.
S1: All very good points. I've been speaking with Varun Shivaram , Senior fellow for energy and climate at the Council on Foreign Relations. Varun , thank you so much for joining us.
S5: Jade , thanks for having me.
S1: Still ahead , we dig into our archive to find Pulitzer Prize winner Viet Thanh Nguyen speaking about his children's book , Simone.
S6: The book is balanced between these two disasters of fire and flood , but also what they represent , and that everything in balance is part of what nature has determined for us. And Simone has to come to some recognition of that.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Today we pull an interview from our archives about a picture book that explores the impact of wildfire evacuations on children. Viet Thanh Nguyen is a writer , scholar , and activist. You may know him for his bestselling novel The Sympathizer. His latest children's book , Simone , tells the story of a young girl in California who has to evacuate after her home is threatened by a wildfire , and how art can help young people process this new , difficult reality. Arts reporter Julia Dixon Evans spoke with him in October. Here's that interview.
S7: Much of your work explores different facets of the refugee experience , and in Simone , the main character is a climate refugee.
S6: She's asleep , and all of a sudden she hears her mother crying. It's time to wake up Simone , and she hears fire alarms. And so she wakes up to , I think , one of the worst nightmares for many of us as Californians , obviously , but just as people in general , this idea that all of a sudden this huge fire is coming out of nowhere and is threatening the entire neighborhood , and she has to make a very rapid decision , what is she going to grab and take with her because they have to flee ? And I think this is unfortunately an increasingly common experience and something that we all have to prepare for. And that was the impetus for writing the book.
S7:
S6: And this idea came to me from the artist Minnie Fan , who illustrates this book , and she had this idea about a Vietnamese-American girl confronting wildfires. And I took that idea and I ran with it. And I thought , you know , what's the opposite of fire ? The opposite of fire is water. We need water , but too much water can be bad. And I thought about how in Vietnam there's a lot of flooding , some really bad flooding. And so I gave Simone the character of a mother who's been through flooding in Vietnam and now is facing fire here in California. And the book is balanced between these two disasters of fire and flood , but also what they represent , and that everything in balance is part of what nature has determined for us. And Simone has to come to some recognition of that.
S7: We also see Simone find the power of art in healing. How important is art , do you think , to self-expression , especially in the face of something like the climate crisis.
S6: I think many of us as adults , forgot that we were all probably artists at some point. Whereas I'm the father of two young children , an 11 year old boy and a four year old girl who's named Simone. And what I've seen in both cases is that all the kids in their schools have loved art. They've loved creating , they love playing , they love working with color and so on and so forth. So how did that happen ? That we all , as children seem to love art ? And then when we grow up as adults , we so many of us have left that behind. So I wanted to explore this child's point of view where art really does matter. It's something intimate. It's something natural to small children. And Simone ends up as a climate refugee in a high school gymnasium where the shelter has been set up. And as the adults are all freaking out , she has to calm herself down. And how does she do it ? Through the pens and pencils and paper she's brought with her , and she extends that to the other fellow children who are also scared. And so through that experience where she learns to take charge. She learns that art can be a way of soothing herself and these other children , but also as a way , it's a way for her to give expression to all of these confused feelings that she is experiencing , and that for her , it's her way of managing her fear in the face of this very difficult new reality.
S7: You have alluded to this , but climate change is worsening and extreme weather and the impacts are becoming more common. We're also seeing greater attention to the idea of climate trauma.
S6: I hope there is no more denial that's happening out there , especially as all parts of the country are being hit , regardless of whether they're red or blue. And so we have to move to a stance of both fighting against climate catastrophe , catastrophe , but also adapting to it as well. So I actually have not heard the term climate trauma. Thank you for introducing me to another horrible thing to think about. But but obviously climate adaptability encompasses that. And I you know , here in California obviously we prepare for earthquakes all the time. But now I think as a state and as a nation , we have to prepare for a variety of different kinds of climate disasters. And that would include not just the physical aspect and the financial aspect , but also , as you were saying , the emotional aspect of trying to confront what these climate catastrophes mean. Obviously , it can be really daunting as we think about the world ending. It's not the first and only instance where people have had to confront the possibility of their world ending. So in some ways , I think refugees are already equipped to deal with this. But most Americans have never had to confront the refugee experience , except now , as they potentially think of themselves as climate refugees. And being a refugee is a traumatic experience. And let's hope that now. Americans who have oftentimes tried to close a door against refugees might want to open the door to what ? Refugees who have already gone through displacement. What they can tell us about how they have coped with trauma.
S1: That was author Viet Thanh Nguyen , speaking with our reporter Julia Dixon Evans about his children's book , Simone. To hear the full interview , go to KPBS Arts. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day. On purpose everyone.
