S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. Ethnic studies will be a high school graduation requirement come 2030. We'll talk about why it's important and yet so controversial. I'm Jade Hindman. Here's to conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. What parents need to know about ethnic studies.
S2: When people see themselves in the curriculum , they feel a greater sense of belonging.
S1: Then we'll break down the curriculum and how the studies are beneficial to students. That's ahead on Midday Edition. In 2021 , California became the first state to create an ethnic studies graduation requirement for public high schools under Assembly Bill 101. High schools must start offering ethnic studies courses starting next fall during the 20 2526 school year. That's the graduating class of 2030 , if you can believe we are almost there already. Now , districts across this state are taking different approaches , many already teaching ethnic studies. For example , San Diego Unified voted to make ethnic studies a graduation requirement back in 2019 , but others are just implementing ethnic studies curriculum for the first time and figuring out how to do it. One of them is San Diego Union High School District. Their plan is to incorporate ethnic studies in a ninth grade English class , and they'll be hosting a series of community engagement nights to get feedback on the course curriculum. Joining me now to discuss this is president of the school board at San Diego Union High School District , Remco Visconti. Remco , welcome to midday edition.
S2: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here.
S1: I'm so glad you're here. So there's obviously a state requirement that's prompted the ethnic studies curriculum in your district. But I understand there's been conversations about this for a while now. Is that right ? Yes.
S2: In fact , to say that we're only doing it because it's a state requirement , I believe could diminish the value that this course can bring to our district. We have had students coming to our board meetings advocating for classes such as ethnic literature , wanting to see more diversity in the curriculum , materials to see representation of themselves and what they're reading and learning about. So it's also a response to that as well as acknowledging the global society in which we live in our country is changing , and the way we look is changing , and understanding that diversity is critical for anyone success moving forward after they leave high school.
S1: And a lot of this was prompted by the death of George Floyd. Why do you think that sort of galvanized this , this effort.
S2: As I have been learning more about ethnic studies , there is a whole history to how that course developed that I will leave to the professors in those spheres to talk more about. I think the resurgence with Floyd was a moment in time that our country increasingly became polarized , polarized around what we hear in the media as culture wars. It began a dialogue and a discussion about whether our systems of government serve all equitably. And so there seemed to be a real fire put under this issue in a way that wasn't there before. And I think ideally , we would all like to think that there's no place for politics in our educational system. The fact is , when I hear public speakers at our meeting , their rhetoric they're speaking about at our public school board meetings reflects what I hear in the political platforms as our nation as a whole. So I think that ethnic studies is just one small touch point of these issues we're dealing with as a country in a larger context.
S1: Perhaps students really seeking to understand why something like that happened and how to prevent it. Definitely.
S2: Definitely. And there's also consistently schools we've not done a great job at ensuring all of our students feel a sense of belonging. And that's not just an opinion , but that's been reported in certain data that we've received from students that they don't feel that they belong. And ethnic studies and increased diversity in our curriculum is shown to address that , that when people see themselves in the curriculum , they feel a greater sense of belonging. And so it definitely addresses these larger systemic issues that we're discussing as a nation , but also just that need for human beings to want to belong to the communities in which they are part. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , and to your point , you know , research out of Stanford shows significant academic benefits for students taking ethnic studies courses. The San Diego Union High School District is around 65% white.
S2: And all of these are seen as a bringing down by those who oppose these kinds of measures. They they see it as a bringing down of standards that in order to be more equitable , we're saying everyone wins or everyone gets a trophy and it takes away from academic achievement. But in fact , the opposite is is true that studies. And I encourage those who want to learn more about what's in the ethnic studies curriculum. The state of California issued a model curriculum , and within that model curriculum , there's an explanation , and they include links to studies that show how this sort of curriculum directly leads to greater academic achievement and benefits everyone. And so I think that this idea that this course is just for a small minority is is missing the point of ethnic studies. It really benefits the whole. And that's why it's it's so important for our district.
S1: Can you give me an example of some of the things students may learn in an ethnic studies course ? Sure.
S2: So in ethnic studies what also is important is , is local context of student experience in the area in which they live. So another group ethnic group prominent in our district would be the Latino community , and we might seek out stories from the Latino community here locally. Um , there's examples in Barrio Logan , things that happen in that Latino community with a freeway coming through and how they galvanized as a community to save portions of their community and create Barrio Logan Park. So students might see that in action. How how national or how government decisions on something like a freeway also touch our ethnicity , our communities , our belonging , and how communities can look at that through which lens to make improvements that serve their own community a little better. So students will get this general , uh , intro to what is there's four major parts to ethnic studies , and that's identity. And what is identity ? There's history and movement. They're systems of power and they're social movements and equity. So they'll get a broad brush of all of these. And then the hope is that they can help design and inform the local stories through which those concepts are explored.
S1: Well , the ethnic studies curriculum will be built into a ninth grade English course.
S2: First of all , you need a counterbalance that would be offered the next semester at the other semester. In addition , there's credentialing requirements , and we need enough teachers. And our district did a robust dive into all the different options and did look at setting up a standalone course. I believe that was an investment about of about $1 million , in order to have enough teachers to serve as the students. The idea with English nine and starting early , our elementary , our local elementary schools are really good at teaching our students about equity , inclusion , kindness , and we would like to capture students as early in the process as we can in their high school careers. So ninth grade , they're just beginning high school. So let's give them the experience of talking about diverse perspective , talking about the stories of students they might be in classes with , and what those students might be feeling are experiencing to foster that sense of community and belonging early on at the very beginning. And it complements another initiative we have with the National Conflict Resolution Center in our district called one Sant'Egidio. And so throughout high school , they can also then they'll be participating in trainings that will keep fostering this community within our school district. And they might opt to take ethnic literature later or other courses later that deepen their understanding of these. If the students are so interested and want to deepen their understanding in ethnic studies.
S1: Well , it's it is interesting that the ethnic Studies course will be embedded in an English course.
S2: So then they looked at both social studies and English classes as an option in which to embed those in English. There's already a focus on reading novels from diverse authors critical thinking , writing , evaluating. So some of these themes fit very naturally within that kind of pedagogy of of those English classes. So it can supplement and use the skills from those English classes of critical thinking and writing. And and so those skills are going to be very complementary , um , as the students learn stories. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , Sant'Egidio is hosting a series of community engagement sessions prior to the start of the school year.
S2: I've attended events hosted by those who might be more opposed to ethnic studies , or sometimes what I've heard is they're not opposed to teaching diverse history. It's the systems of power that they have an issue with or something like that. And there's a lot of fears expressed about what that might mean. Um , so these community engagement sessions , let's put everything out on the table. And we have a wonderful superintendent who values the input of everyone and understands the value in not trying to sort of brush something under the rug. But let's have these robust discussions and my my personal hope as well. And I think the hope of the board in our school district is that individuals who attend these sessions come with an open mind. Democracy depends on us having different ideas and being able to communicate them in a respectful way. So instead of coming with anger or preconceived notions of what they're going to see , I ask our community to come with an open mind to hear what the lessons are , and it would be so wonderful. I'm not sure we're there yet , that if people could express maybe what they fear. So if they would say , I fear if my student is learning about systems of power , then than what ? That that would be more instructive as a board and as an educational community to how to address that fear rather than just anger about it happening. Right.
S1: Right. Because when you said that , it put a big question mark in my mind. I mean , like fear of what ? Right.
S2: So this is taking a considerable amount , as it should , of our staff's time. It's taking new certification and training for teachers , developing all new curriculum. But we didn't really receive any resources with which to do that. I think it was about $200,000 to to do it. So I'd say lack of resources is is one and just the heightened political atmosphere with which it has to be implemented , because we do receive a lot of anger and fear. And so I think that's a challenge to implementation. But I do hope that these community sessions will help alleviate that challenge , because then again , everything will be an open book and we'll all see what it is that we're talking about instead of just some theoretical unknown. Right.
S3: Right.
S1: Well , and what grades would this apply to ? Is this going to be embedded in every English class or.
S2: Um , so as of 2526 we'll have an English nine ethnic studies class , and we will have an English nine ethnic Studies honors class. And that'll be the beginning. And I think we'll go from there. And even with all of these engagement sessions , there's really four stages. There's a community engagement night , there's a board study session. Then we'll have a board meeting and implementation. And right now that's the endpoint on our timeline , but it's not where it ends. These all of our courses are continuously evaluated and refined and improved. And then we'll go from there to see if there's any potential to expand the offerings in the future.
S1:
S2: It has a really interesting history. And and the different units and chapters and types of things discussed. So that is the primary source. But also we do hope in our community engagement Knights , that that community also includes in our outreach and developing the curriculum includes our local professors in the area. We have professors at Cal State San Marcos , at the local unit , all the great universities we have in San Diego who teach this. And going back to one question you asked about the challenge of this. So this Ethnic Studies course began as a college level course began at UC Berkeley and San Diego State as a university level course. And it is a whole field of study , and we're distilling it down as part of an English class in ninth grade. So there will be some watering down. But we don't want to lose what's most essential. So we will rely on experts and most importantly , to part of the ethnic studies like the panacea or the ideal is not the ideal. The it's it's part and parcel with the ethnic studies is to engage the community in the development of that. And when I say community , I do mean also outreach to those in our community that maybe don't usually have a say. Our Latino communities , our Spanish speaking families , we will have engagement in Spanish to help those individuals and students say what they would like to see in the course. So that's a really critical component as well.
S1: That's great. Well , teachers receive extra or special training for the ethnic studies curriculum. Yes.
S2: Yes. yes , they already have started to receive some and that will definitely continue and is definitely required. There's no special credentialing at the state level right now to teach ethnic studies as there is. If you have an English credential , you can teach English social studies credential. So there's not an official credential yet , but you can get a certification or take extra classes to learn more about it. So that will be important for our teachers as well.
S1: Well , as we've outlined so far , we're living in a very contentious moment in our nation's history where , you know , national politics are bleeding into local classrooms.
S2: And I think other elected officials are also making this effort. And I encourage all elected officials to make this effort , to be unafraid to step in the spaces where those who you feel might oppose you or be threatening to your view go there and have conversations , and that's all part of it. When I attended the screening of , um , Killing America was the title of the documentary that felt a lot of these efforts are doing just that , killing America. So it was important for me to hear what what about it ? And I came away realizing what we have in common. And there are these beliefs and the ideals upon which America was founded , and those who support ethnic studies and those who are opposed hold those dear , those values upon which America was founded. Both sides care for students to be critical thinkers. They want them to think critically about the information and both sides. I heard care about academic achievement. So I think if we can coalesce around those three areas and any other areas that might be in common , then we can have a discussion of how what we're presenting furthers those goals or does not further those goals. And then it can be more meaningful instead of just coming in , assuming the other side has evil intent or negative , nothing to offer to the conversation. I think that'll be the biggest mistake.
S1:
S2: How about that ? I'll start with myself. Things I've learned through this process myself. I had never , um. I had a wonderful experience visiting the African History Museum in Washington , D.C. , and when we talk about the founding of America , um , this idea of liberty for all. I think I thought when the country was founded , in some ways it was done even though I had heard about slavery. I knew that not everyone had the right to vote , including women. It still seemed like our country was founded and it was done. And I only recently , more recently realized what a process democracy is. It's an aspiration. Those original founding documents were aspirational , and we've not yet achieved liberty for all or equity for all. And so I think my own understanding is evolving , and I don't think I was as acutely aware of how past harms things like redlining have lasting effects today. How could they not ? How could they not ? And so just even acknowledging and learning about that , I think I didn't get that in school to that level. Some people say , oh , we learned about slavery. We learned not quite , not quite to the extent of how it impacts communities today. So I can speak for my own learning that my understanding of our country and democracy has changed. So I think that that will be the same for others.
S1:
S2: I would hate for this just to become a place for certain individuals who come to these meetings to say they're very vitriolic speech. They record themselves and they post it on social media and it becomes a moment for them. I really hope that doesn't happen. I fear that the focus could be on the areas of the curriculum where there is disagreement and devolve into these bigger conversations that we might need to have in a country , as a country , which we cannot solve in a in a boardroom in a day. So I those are some of my fears. But I think that in setting the stage of focus on students that this is an academic environment , and here are the subjects we are teaching , and this is what the students will be learning. I hope if we keep that focus on students and education , that that that will help mitigate some of that.
S1: All right. Well , this is something we'll definitely be following. I've been speaking with Rebecca Visconti. She's president of the school board at San Diego Union High School District. Rebecca , thank you so much for joining me.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: Still ahead , how ethnic studies shifts the culture and moves us beyond competition.
S4: We created a structure where someone has to lose ethnic studies , is trying to create a structure where everyone wins.
S1: Hear more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. We just heard from a local high school district developing a new ethnic studies course. But ethnic studies in general is not new at the college level. It's been around since the 1960s. Joining me now is Andrew Joe Levitt. He's a professor of sociology and American Indian and Indigenous studies at UC Santa Barbara , and former chair of ethnic studies at UC San Diego. Professor Joe Levitt , welcome to Midday edition.
S4: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you.
S1: Glad to have you here. So as we just heard in our last segment , some parents are either confused about what ethnic studies is or they're somehow afraid of it. Can you clear things up and explain what ethnic studies is and is not ? Absolutely.
S4: I'm happy to. And , you know , I think you phrase that question quite well , uh , that there's a lot of fear , lack of understanding about what ethnic studies is. It really emerged to it's about history. It's it's social studies. It is science. It's philosophy. It's literature. Um , with the perspectives of traditionally , um , marginalized communities or communities that we don't know as much about. And so in the 1950s , 1960s , in particular at San Francisco State University , for example , where I used to work , uh , UC Berkeley , UCLA , Kent State , people were probably familiar with them. Uh , there was a series of protests right around the civil rights movement where , uh , four traditional groups were included in the sort of early conversations about ethnic studies that was American Indians , African Americans , Asian Americans and Latinos. And so ethnic studies today , though some 50 , 60 years later , after its initial founding , I would say as a traditional academic discipline in the late 1960s , today , 60 years later , is really about us trying to understand how does society work and how does it work differently for different folks ? Sometimes , uh , in good and sometimes challenging ways. Right. And so I think I don't think parents should be afraid. I think people sometimes think that ethnic studies is about teaching people , students to hate other people , or to be angry at other people. In fact , it's quite the opposite. Ethnic studies is actually about honoring and celebrating the diversity that makes this country unique. Ethnic studies is also , though , about looking critically at some of the things that we haven't gotten right in our history , like slavery , uh , like Indian removal , you know , like forced concentration camps where we put Japanese-Americans. Right. And so there is a history of that , and some of that continues into the present. And so we want to try to understand in a critical way how best to support students. Right. We live in California. I'm not surprised that high school and other school districts in San Diego are looking and tackling this issue , because it's a central part of who we are. If we don't have citizens , students who are multi literate and understand other cultures , like in California , where we're fastly becoming right already a majority people of color state our students won't be prepared to be in a workforce that is a very diverse. And so Ethnic studies is about preparing students for living in a diverse and complex world and honoring their full and complete selves and the full and complete selves of everyone else that they're around. It's not about exclusion. It's actually about inclusion. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Yeah. yeah.
S1: Um , so after , you know , I've listened to town halls , um , I've heard critics of ethnic studies and they often conflate ethnic studies , critical race theory , and Dei. Um , those are all different things. And at the same time , there's a relationship there between all of them.
S4: And first I'll say , I think some of the confusion and even the fear out there is that people are afraid of conflict or confronting things. And I just want to say at the outset , I've always told students I work with that confrontation is actually a good thing. It's how we have the conflict , because if we look at it , it's not to be an argument or a fight per se. It's actually to address something. So in any in relationships as human beings , until we actually confront something , we will never actually correct things that might not be right. Right , uh , or that need to be addressed. Dei is actually mostly something we see in student affairs , uh , in terms of programming , trying to bring awareness through , uh , student support services. Right. So I've often said , though , the Dei is really structured in a way that is to kind of protect institutions and support institutional , uh , mission and values that are related to kind of social justice , civic engagement. And then you have critical race theory , which is a , um , is exactly what it says is the theoretical framework , one framework , uh , within many frameworks that exist in the world to kind of think about , um , grace , uh , it was , you know , started some might mostly say in the 1980s , late 70s. I mean , I would say even earlier than that , people were trying to look at how how does the discrimination or oppression continue to exist through the through legal means , through the law ? How is it embedded in that way ? Um , and so that's just a theory. It's not again , it's not saying , oh , bad , white people are bad and people of color are good. That's the people are reducing these things and talking about them in very simple and complex ways. It's talking about why Emmett Till's murderer is , you know , those murderers never went on trial , right ? How did the legal system allow for something like that to happen and to continue what ? Right , like 60 years later , still no justice for those families , right. Uh , so I think part of critical race theory , whether people would agree with it or not , it's a framework for trying to understand that ethnic studies is actually about studying the history of the communities that I described earlier. Um , and in that context , they might talk about , like I said , literature of African Americans , right ? They might talk about science approaches of American Indians , etc.. Right. So these are very distinct and very I would say , to help folks understand ethnic studies is is much bigger. It's much broader. Dei and critical race theory could could be aspects of ethnic studies not they don't necessarily have to be. Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S1: And what you've just said really underscores why there's a need for ethnic studies. Uh , you mentioned ethnic studies roots at San Francisco State University , where you used to work. What was the original vision for the discipline ? Right.
S4: It was supposed to be grounded in community. I mean , it was the Third World Liberation Front and the Black Student Union at the time. Right. Organize the Third World Liberation Front. The the 12th strike , uh , was really something that was driven by students and by communities , by organizations to say we are not represented in the curriculum. We're not represented in the classroom. Part of what those folks did , those young people who sacrificed their like they were beaten by police. Many of them were jailed , arrested. All they were asking for was to stop being discriminated against. I mean , we don't have to look very far to find examples of discrimination. And the thing is , I think all of us in this country should want justice. That's ultimately what we're saying. Who's against justice , right. And so I don't understand anyone who would be against ethnic studies. We should all want it. Um , it's important for students , even of European descent , who may not come from a , uh , community of color background. Actually , to be honest with you , when I was in American Indian Studies at San Francisco State , um , most of our majors in the Native American Studies program , there were actually European descent students. This is important to them , too. What the research shows is that students actually do much better all students , including students of European backgrounds , but definitely students of color. When they take ethnic studies classes , they have higher graduation rates. At San Francisco State , the College of Ethnic Studies had the highest rate of graduates , uh , in 4 to 5 years of any of the other colleges on campus. And they noted in the survey research , we did a climate survey because they felt a sense of home and family. Ethnic studies is about not just butts in seats and getting these students out. It's actually about creating a sense of community so they feel supported.
S1:
S3: Um , how.
S1:
S4: Thank you so much for asking me it that way , too , is one of the things that I often tell people. I do a lot of public speaking , you know , all over the country and even outside of the country. And people talk about this idea of allyship , like , how do I be a good ally if I want to support someone ? And I tell people , you know , I went to a talk years ago by , uh , uh , Bishop Yvette Flunder , who's a minister at uh , City of Refuge and um , founding minister , actually in San Francisco. And I remember at this talk she said , I don't want us to think about allyship because it means it sounds transactional. We it's like an alliance , right ? When we think about NATO. Right ? We were just talking about politics. We just heard President Biden give a talk about NATO. We hear a lot about international relations. Ethnic studies can help actually in solving so many of the world's problems. And that's all we want our students to be prepared to do is to tackle some of these problems because , she said , it's a it's a transactional right. Is that you do something for me or I'll do later something for you. Right. So when we hear people talk about , uh , problems in Russia , let's just say , for example , or with Putin , we keep hearing that in the news instead of looking at it as , oh , how are my allies in France or Germany going to help me at this ? Because I need them. How do we and the word I use is how how are we acting in kinship. Right. And that's an indigenous principle in many ways. That's an African and an American Indian idea and principle. We can also see it in Buddhist philosophies and Asian American , um , and other communities. And so I think when we think about kinship as opposed to allyship , when we think about ethnic studies , we think about how do we actually stop thinking in what I call either or terms and thinking both and right that we don't need a competition ? Ethnic studies. This maybe is the best thing that listeners , I hope will remember. When you think about the classroom space and you think about grades , why do we have FS ? Because we created a structure where someone has to lose ethnic studies , is trying to create a structure where everyone wins.
S1: Coming up , we continue the conversation with Andrew Joe Levitt on the importance of ethnic studies and the push for a UC admissions requirement.
S4: It's about honesty and integrity and telling the truth and not being afraid of truth.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition returns after the break. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Today on the show , we're discussing ethnic studies courses in California at the high school and college levels. Right now , I'm speaking with Andrew Juliet. He's a professor of sociology and American Indian and Indigenous studies at UC Santa Barbara , and former chair of ethnic studies at UC San Diego. We've mostly been focusing on high schools , but now I want to talk about the push for ethnic studies admissions requirements for the University of California. Professor Juliet , you were on the original writing group tasked with creating the proposed criteria. The proposal was then revised.
S4: And I think because people are afraid or don't understand ethnic studies. And so it was , um , simplified. And there's basically seven criteria. This is basically meant to help inform , uh , school districts who are now charged because of AB 101 to , uh , offer an ethnic studies course for so students can graduate um , which will take effect right , 2030. But schools are already working on it now. But in the UK we already have uh , what's called areas A through G. Um , each of those areas is connected to a discipline or field like math , history , science and basically all those we want to be consistent and do the same thing , you know , that we do to help high school students in the other disciplines. We want to now that this is law. We just want to be consistent and do the same thing with ethnic studies. And that's to say , here's what we believe are some good criteria. They're very , very direct , pretty short , clear guidance points. And again , I think their focus is not so much on what to teach. Right. We're not trying to tell districts what they should teach or who they should include in , uh , their ethnic studies curriculum. We're saying. How so ? It's more so questions about getting students to be critical thinkers , essentially. And so this is a meant to be a guiding criteria to help as they develop their courses. But our group , we're not the ones who will approve these courses. Uh , the districts are going to come up with that. Right. So people who've brought up questions about like , oh , who's going to get included Or is this going to be negative for this group or that group ? That's not what we're that's not what we're doing. Our job was to say , this is what ethnic studies is. This is , as you know , um , in terms of content type stuff. And this is what ethnic studies is in terms of how we do it. And this is what we think good ethnic studies looks like. So we don't want you to do a Dei social justice class. We want you to do an ethnic studies class. Right. So that's that's what I would say. And where we are right now is we're waiting to I mean , I know at one there's the board of , uh , admissions and relations with schools who usually approves this , um , our academic council , which is a larger body of made up of faculty of the academic Senate , right. In the UC system has to look at this. So there are several layers , uh , of approval. And so we are still , you know , because folks have been working really hard because this is super important. Uh , we want to make sure we're getting it right , and I think we've gotten it right. Um , and there always will be more tweaks , but I do feel that now is the time because of what you asked me just a few moments ago , right ? Is this is about the future and the well-being of our our our students , our state , our history , our of our country. Right to do better. How ethnic studies is actually can help our political systems to be their best selves. And so I think these criteria help to guide districts like the schools. Um , the folks you talked to earlier today , how they might do it , it's not telling them what exactly it's saying. This is how you might want to think about. These are questions you should be thinking about as you develop this. And that'll help you then when you come and apply to the UC. Now some folks have had questions or concerns about implementation. What about schools that are students who are applying to the UC from out of state ? Um , there's always going to be exceptions. That also would be true. Just like every state doesn't have the same same standards , right ? So what they may be getting in high school history in Ohio versus California may be different. The UC always is going to take that into consideration. There's no difference here. So let's not make that be something to to stop this from moving forward. Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Well you mentioned AB 101 , which has to do with that high school graduation requirement. There's been a lot of debate about what model curriculum to use for that. The scholars who wrote the original curriculum actually took their names off after it went through many revisions.
S4: Sadly , I think what's happened with this is knowing folks who've worked so hard on this stuff for really , I mean , to be honest with you. Well , before AB 101 , right ? You know , decades people have been teaching ethnic studies in high schools , you know , for 20 years in some cases , some places 30 , 40 , 50 years even that they've always had like Berkeley High School has had ethnic studies for , you know , ever. But I think what's happened here is that some folks who don't understand what ethnic studies actually is or who want to , you know , have this sort of watered down version that is , oh , let's just celebrate and say , for example , do potluck , right ? When you say , oh , let's , let's have a potluck and learn about so-and-so's culture , that's beautiful. That's great. And we want to do that. And we also want to know , though , what is the history of how Chinese Americans came to the US and what has been their experience in the US. Right. How did law and policy actually impact that experience , and what does that experience look like today , for example ? And then instead in the in a , um , the revised version , we end up taking out anything that might feel offensive to someone else. But just because something has happened negatively in history. First of all , none of us were here , right ? So why are you offended ? It's not a personal attack , right ? When people , for example , hear the term white supremacy , they think it's about white people. It's absolutely not about white people. There are plenty of people of European descent. Uh , European descent , myself included. Right. As someone who is of European descent , who do , um , obviously critique white supremacy , that it is a system that was created to oppress other people , including other people of European descent , are also , um , impacted negatively by white supremacy. So I think people get misled and they think that ethnic studies is about attacking , uh , or quote unquote , paying back white people for , uh , the treatment of people of color. It is absolutely not that. It's what I said earlier. It's actually about creating a sense of community cohesion. And so I think it's really , really , really important that we continue to focus on what's happening with the people who are the original authors. The liberated ethnic studies , uh , curriculum is trying to remain as true as possible to the original tenets and those that have evolved right to look at these issues more relationally , as I said , are comparatively the model curriculum that the you know , the state is now sort of trying to adopt. You know , again , this speaks to , again , maybe not so much content. It's actually the how to part. It's the pedagogy. How do you teach it. So at the end of the day , this has been a lot of back and forth. Uh , but I think it's really going to come down to how school districts want to do this. And I do believe that in the end , the good version , the best version , because it's the version that says , let's all be a part of this , right ? Is that kinship model that I talked about ? Not the one that's about competition or about exclusion. Um , and it's about honesty and integrity and telling the truth and not being afraid of truth. Right.
S1: Um , earlier this hour , we spoke to a local high school district working on their ethnic studies curriculum. And they're going to they're going to host a series of community engagement sessions to get public feedback. But I'm curious to hear from you. To what degree do you think the general public should have a say in ethnic Studies course curriculum ? Um , especially when much of the general public has not taken an ethnic studies course.
S4: I mean , I think my answer is the same amount they have in the development of math curriculum and science curriculum , right ? I don't think that , and that's unfortunate. I think a better a bigger question that we all should be asking is how do we promote , um , collective community based education models so that actually parents who may not have the expertise to support their kids when they're doing their homework with math or science or ethnic studies. How do we actually create a system where there's a support network to make sure those students are getting the support that they need , so the public at large. I mean , that's like me saying , um , let me go tell , you know , a chemical engineer how to do their I have no idea. Right ? I could speculate and say whatever I want. Right. And I think because it's ethnic studies , people think they can say whatever they want , but it doesn't mean that it's actually accurate. And that's why we have all this misinformation out here , that ethnic studies is about oppression and harming people or hurting people , or that it's dangerous. It's not. It's in fact quite the opposite. It's trying to undo the danger that has existed in this country since its founding. And so it's trying to help us , uh , to do better. So , no , I don't know that that's I understand that people are afraid and that that's meant to. Uh , but my question back would be , what are you afraid of , exactly ? What is it that people are afraid of that there ? I mean , people already bullying in school. This is another thing. Ethnic studies would help with bullying. Every parent listening , I hope right now or caregiver listening right now knows that bullying is a real thing in our schools. Ethnic studies , that's also what it's about is it's trying to teach kids why bullying has no place. It's just like what I said about grades. Bullying exists because we teach our kids. We teach our young people about competition , competitiveness , who's better ? And that comes in all things. Part of it is we want to actually let people have more opportunity to be their their full selves.
S1: Excellent point.
S4:
S1: Yeah , exactly. I've been speaking with Andrew Joe Levitt. He's a professor of sociology and American Indian and Indigenous studies at UC Santa Barbara , and former chair of ethnic studies at UC San Diego. Professor Joe Lovett , thank you so much for being here.
S4: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Take care.
