S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. Today , we're talking about the impact Donald Trump's policy of halting refugee resettlement and funding is having in San Diego. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. San Diego resettlement agencies say people are being left in limbo.
S2: We were told stop what ? Completely with the refugees and any money that you spend beyond that day will not be reimbursed.
S1: Making a bad situation for those seeking refuge. Worse. We'll talk about how agencies are hoping to still help those in need. That's ahead on Midday Edition. First the news. On day one in office , President Trump suspended the country's refugee admissions program , blocking new refugees from coming to the U.S. then he froze federal funding for refugee resettlement agencies , forcing them to lay off staff or shut down altogether. Despite legal challenges to the current funding freeze , the State Department has now terminated all contracts with refugee resettlement agencies. And that's according to NPR. For refugees , losing access to these groups means losing their pathway to the US. This hour , we'll find out how all this is impacting San Diego based refugee resettlement agencies and service providers. Joining me now is Ramla Saad , executive director of Pana. That's partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. Ramla , welcome.
S3: Thank you so much. It's good to be here.
S1: It's great to have you. Also , Walter Lam , president and CEO of Alliance for African Assistance. Hi , Walter.
S2: Good to be here with you.
S1: Great to have you here. Yeah. And Sean Vandiver , president of Afghan evac. Welcome , Sean.
S4: Thanks so much for having me. Excited to be here.
S1: Thank you all for taking the time to have this conversation. You know , first of all , how have the funding freezes at the federal level impacted your work ? Walter , I'll start with you.
S2: The impact has been very , very drastic. First and foremost , uh , when we get freeze of the refugee arrival , we just thought that was the end of it. But on the 24th of January , we were told , stop working completely with the refugees. And any money that you spent beyond that day will not be reimbursed. And as of that day , we had already spent 1.2 million on the refugees that right now we are not even sure whether we are going to be reimbursed. We are just praying and hoping that we will get our money back. But the most painful part of it is for the refugees. We brought them here with the promise that we will take care of them for 90 days at least , and provide each of them with $101,650. All of this is gone. So we are now campaigning to raise money. We came up with roughly the Refugee Crisis fund that people are responding to. Our biggest crisis now is keeping them in their homes , not getting them homeless. So that's what we are raising money for. Good enough. The month of February is all taken care of. We are raising some money to take care of March right now because we have an eviction notice and the month of April as well. And after April we will be done with the 90 days that these refugees were promised. But nobody is supporting.
S1: Oh my goodness. In Ramallah you founded Pana in 2015 at the height of the Syrian war.
S3: It's actually really funny because we were founded in response to systemic failures that leave refugees and immigrants vulnerable. We know that the refugee program , which was codified into law in 1980 through the Refugee Act , um , was insufficient. It provides 90 days of support for newcomers. So think about leaving your home country , everything you know , every social system , infrastructure of support that you had to be placed in a brand new community and have to relearn everything. Language , culture. Build a new network , a social system of support. And on top of that , you're supposed to be self-sufficient in 90 days. So we've always had to , you know , address kind of system failures in that way. And the funding freeze is leaving thousands of families in limbo across the country. It's devastating. And so what we're doing is we're leaning into and expanding our mutual aid supports and direct services amid , you know , federal failures because it was insufficient before. And it's going to require community and a village and an and a network of neighbors who care about the people in our neighborhoods , in our communities , to ensure that refugee families that are newly resettling , um , can afford rent can reenter into this new country , you know , in a meaningful way. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , Sean , your nonprofit , Afghan Evac , works to help Afghans resettle here in the U.S.. What are your reactions to this ? Sure.
S4: So , look , we had the pleasure of working with the last administration after the withdrawal of all U.S. and Allied forces from Kabul to vision out what a system should look like for keeping our promises to our wartime allies and wartime allies come in sort of two different buckets , right ? You've got special immigrant visa holders , the consular track , and that is folks who work directly for the military , interpreters , drivers , etc. , and then refugees. And that's everybody from lawyers and prosecutors who put the Taliban away , female tactical platoon commanders from the Afghan army , who who worked with our forces and made sure that we had the intelligence we need , other military intelligence collectors , family of active duty , US military , all of whom are people in need. They're in danger because of their association with us. And what we built was this ecosystem that represents the safest , most secure legal immigration pathway our country has ever seen. And so we thought that this would maybe be safe. Uh , we thought that because the extraordinary amount of vetting and like to be clear , the United States Refugee Admissions Program is the gold standard of vetting that refugees get , vetting higher than our military , higher than it takes to get into the military or into the police , or certainly to be a politician. And we thought that these folks that this system would continue. But everything came crashing down on January 20th with three executive orders , executive order 14161 , protecting our national security , which the ramifications will be coming down this week. Uh , Executive order 14163 , which was the refugee pause , which said that no matter where you were in the refugee system , you could no longer proceed. You couldn't arrive in the United States. You couldn't get access to the US rep program , and you couldn't continue processing if you were there. And then one four , 169 , which is the foreign aid pause. And the foreign aid pause , is what impacted resettlement agencies here at home. And the courts have been like running through all this stuff , uh , and saying that it's illegal. But last week or the week before , the State Department fully canceled all of those reception and placement contracts , and that's permanent.
S1: Sean , what is the consequence of not having these programs in place ? Sure.
S4: It's a direct threat to our national security , right ? The United States is a country that is meant to be welcoming. Whether you're receiving aid packages somewhere around the world with an American flag on them , it's diapers , medicine , food with an American flag , and a gift from the American people , which which builds goodwill around the world , right. Or whether or not , whether you're a refugee coming here because you're in danger , you're fleeing persecution somewhere because of who you are , the way you look , something about you. The fact that this has been a bipartisan program for years and years and years. You heard Rama earlier say the Refugee Act passed in 1980. We're on the precipice of we've crossed the Rubicon into a different kind of world. And make no mistake about it , our national security is at great risk because they seem to be wanting to shut this down. They seem to be targeting refugees and wartime allies , which is wild because 90% of the American public supports this work , supports Americans welcoming into our neighborhoods folks who stood with us and refugees broadly.
S3: It also undermines our standing in the world and reminds our , you know , humanitarian obligations , our country's , you know , past history of becoming welcome is now completely you know , we're looked at as a country that is no longer , you know , a beacon of hope , a model for the rest of the world. Yeah. Um , while at the same time really cutting off life saving protection , right. For vulnerable families all across the world who have waited sometimes decades for the US to us wrap to vet them and go through that , that the process of resettlement. Exactly.
S4: So actually , I want to jump on that because you're right. We lose our moral high ground , right ? We've lost our moral high ground. We left the UN Human Rights Council , like all these sorts of things that are happening , deconstructing the institutions that have kept us safe for decades and decades since World War Two. And look , we have an obligation to do this if we're going to lead the free world , we have an obligation to this. And if we don't , then we're not going to be leading the free world. And I'll tell you , one of our biggest accomplishments at Afghan evac is that we worked with the white House in the US Digital Service to fundamentally change the way that refugees processed. And it wasn't just for Afghans. It was for everybody around the world. What took years and years and years ? We brought it down to 30 to 60 days , in some cases 90 days. They used to do it in a very linear fashion , and we got them to do it all at once. And it was being rolled out to refugee resettlement support centers and embassies around the world , and it was working. We got over 100,000 refugees in to our country last year , last fiscal year , and we owe it to the world to protect these folks and. Squandering our moral high ground , especially at a time where , like , we don't have a lot of it to begin with , is a mistake that puts our communities , especially San Diego , at risk. This is a prime target for anybody who wants to mess with the military or mess with our national security. We're at the border. We already have climate refugees showing up here. Like , I'm flabbergasted and I don't know. You know , we saw a letter that went from several members of Congress last week saying , hey , what are you doing ? Several Republican members of Congress last week saying , what are you doing ? So I actually think that this should get worked out , but I don't think the administration is going to do it willingly.
S2: The impact of this termination completely is so profound , not only in the United States here. I came here as a refugee in 1986 , and there are some people right now that fled together with me that are still in the refugee camp in Kenya , close to 40 years waiting for this opportunity. They've been processed and approved to come , and all of a sudden this is stopped. And the worst part of it also is that right now , even food that was given to the refugees at the refugee camp , there is no ration now given to the refugees. And in Kenya , refugees have started even demonstrating. And instead of responding to some of these crises in a human way , they are being shot and killed now in Kenya because of just mere demonstration. And as you may know already around the world we have over 120 million refugees that are displaced and have nowhere to go. And the opportunity for this resettlement here , even if we bring only 100,000 , yet still make a big dent in the life of the refugees. We managed to bring some people here , leaving part of their family still overseas. Exactly. And we have stopped completely now. Separation of families is also one of those things that we are faced with because of this termination. Yes.
S3: Not just the contact. Like to illustrate that we have a community member who made it the day just made it before , you know , during Trump 1.0 , um , the refugee plan took hold. And at that time we were hearing about stories of refugees on the planes , right , who were on their way to the US. Who and , you know , we're all scrambling to try and figure out now , now what happens to those families. But in the case of this young man who made it , uh , his family , who was supposed to be on the flight with him , the got delayed for whatever reason , ended up being stuck. So now he's here in the US by himself Myself and those family members. His grandma , namely um , who raised him. Is unable to reunite with him because once you're knocked off that process , because it's such a bureaucratic process , right. The medical examinations lasts for only 180 days , and after 180 days , they expire. And you have to start that process over again. The national security vetting. I mean , how how good is that ? Right. And then so these families are put into this like bureaucratic like black hole and limbo , um , that they aren't able to.
S4: And nobody gives you any information. Exactly.
S3: Exactly. There's no way to kind of , um , there's no way to file a claim. There's no way to kind of appeal. There's there's nothing there's no waiver. You're just kind of stuck. Um , and so having to relive that again with this ban is not only hurtful , but I think in the throughout the world , I think the US is going to continue to be seen as a , as a , as a , as a country that comes to other countries and does a whole lot of messing up , and then takes zero responsibility for our role and our actions globally. And so we're working to make sure that the U.S. continues to uphold international human rights law. Right. And that we aren't the global criminal entity that's violating every compact that we've ever signed. I think that's it's really worrisome.
S1: Coming up , the president of Afghanistan says Trump's policies are leaving Afghan allies behind.
S4: We say , hey , you stand with us , we'll stand with you , work for us for a year , and we'll get you here. And then nine years later , they can't find the guy that said that to them , and it's all on them to figure out the paperwork. It's actually wild behavior from the greatest nation in the world.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. This hour , we're talking with local refugee providers about how recent executive orders are affecting their work. I'm speaking with Romola Saheed , executive director of Pana. That's partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. Also , Walter Lamb , president and CEO of Alliance for African Assistance , and Sean Vandiver , president of Afghan Evac.
S3: Because , you know , I'd like to I think everybody would like to believe that we do more for refugees , but we the reality is we don't. It's a case management and minimal support for 90 days. And because San Diego is one of the most expensive housing markets , the resources given to support them. Those 90 days are also wholly insufficient. And so we always , you know , relied on community and found ways to sustain , support and advocate , um , for , you know , for refugee families , despite those systemic failures. We've blown through that now there's no support. And so it's pretty drastic. So the the family that arrived , you know , two months ago who had a caseworker from African Alliance or another refugee resettlement organization who was helping them apply for Medi-Cal and get set up for school and , you know , do all the things that they need to basically get their life in order in the US has just up and disappeared.
S2: The population that we brought in , uh , the last I would say less than 90 days , we brought refugees from Afghanistan , Burma , Guatemala , Syria , Iraq and the Democratic Republic of Congo. These are the places that we have brought these refugees from , and I still want to stress the kind of vetting that these refugees go through before they're allowed to come into United States. They are vetted by FBI. They are vetted by Ice. They're vetted by the state Department of Homeland Security to make sure that these are really clean people that are coming to our country here. So the impact right now , as Ramadan stated , uh , at the Alliance , we laid off half of our employees that are in this department , but good enough. The board of directors of the Alliance for Africa and assistant said we must continue serving these refugees that we brought through alliance until the end of the 90 days , and that's what we are doing right now. But it's challenging. There are some that are coming into our office. Uh , there's one from Afghan that came and said , Mr. Lamb , I want to speak with you. And I told me I was a trainer of all the security guard that protected the US Army. And you brought me here to tell me that I'm hated this much. I would have preferred to stay in my country , have a house , knowing that I will die. Huh ? These are the kind of things that you are hearing from the refugees , the frustration that people are having in here , and then PTSD. This is a serious problem that we are having now. We have three psychologists working with us , and so many people are asking for help right now. And yes , so it's a crisis that is getting out of control completely because of that worry. These people have gone through so much trauma , the trauma of leaving their home country , the trauma of living in a foreign place , the trauma of traveling to come to the United States. Now we have created our there another set of traumas for these people.
S3: Can I can I share quickly that , you know , earlier I said that when we were founded , we were founded in response to systemic failures that left refugees and immigrants like , vulnerable. And what that means is , you know , yes , they have fled their homes due to violence and persecution , found themselves in a refugee camp , and magically , you know , a part of the less than 1% of a , you know , selected group of people globally that the US have selected because we choose who we bring here , by the way. Right. It's not some line that you get on and then it's your turn. We actually select the people that we bring here and say that your lucky person , or a family like mine was to be resettled in the US. They come here and then they continue to face economic exclusion , political marginalization. That has been always the case. Now we're just seeing , you know , this in , in the most extreme fashion , in the most extreme way. Um , but it is , you know , we have to work in deep partnership with our community members to shift power to ensure that resources are in the hands of the most impacted. So that means really investing in community leadership , investing in mutual aid efforts and rebuilding a sense of community and a sense of like connectedness and belonging for our refugees. Um , because we can't rely on federal resources , right ? We can't rely on the federal government. But what we what we've done is we've always sustained and found ways to sustain ourselves through community support by showing up for one another. And I think those are the kinds of efforts that we need to grow and develop. Um , and , and , and to see more of in our communities.
S4: Sean , I want to read a read a text message that an Afghan recently sent me , but I want to jump on what you were saying right now. Ramla , which is what we see , is that the Afghan community ends up shouldering much of the burden because either resettlement agencies are overwhelmed , because we just did a big evacuation. 80,000 people showed up here right overnight. Um , or , uh , you know , there's 100,000 refugees coming in and people are showing up and , and the communities end up having to make sure that everybody's taken care of , and they do it without a complaint. They do it , and they do an extraordinary job of it. I agree with you that those communities are incredible , and we should make sure that those communities have the resources that they need. And still , you just can't rely on the federal government even more than you could before. Right ? Exactly. Um , and we're lucky in California , at least our state supports refugees , right ? There's other states where there's not even a state refugee coordinator who works in the government because. Well , because reasons that we all know. Um , I want to read a quote , uh , that a man named Shankar sent to me , uh , just yesterday. I really feel like I've reached the end of the line. I no longer have the ability to support my family. I've borrowed as much as I could and asked for help , hoping that one day I will be freed from this hell. But unfortunately , everything is getting worse. Thank you to you and your team for fighting for us. We've been corresponding since July 8th , 2023. He's been very patient , waiting , getting you know , the SIV program is not a well constructed program.
S1:
S4:
S1: Stuck in Afghanistan.
S4: Stuck in Afghanistan. And and look , there are folks , uh , Walter and Romano , that refugees sometimes wait 20 years in. Civvies aren't refugees , but they end up all flowing into the resettlement bucket. And these folks wait patiently and somehow still maintain this patriotism for our country that is greater than most of the Americans that I know , right ? They've done more for America. The impact that this is all having , the devastation both on veterans. Because for us , we were told our entire service that you leave no one behind you. You have core values of honor , courage and commitment. And we're going to , you know , if you stand with us , we'll stand with you. And we go and tell that to people. We go and say that to the people that want to come here , right ? We say , hey , you stand with us , we'll stand with you , work for us for a year , and we'll get you here. And then nine years later , they can't find the guy that said that to them , and it's all on them to figure out the paperwork. It's actually wild behavior from the greatest nation in the world.
S1: Well , I want to ask this because last week , Reuters reported that a new travel ban from President Trump could keep people from Afghanistan and Pakistan from entering the US. And that's that's reporting based on three sources familiar with the matter. What would that ban mean for refugees , Walter.
S2: You know , the whole band. I'm looking at that list. I think it's not far from the band that we had earlier , except that 2 or 3 Central American countries were added to it. But , uh , it's so unfortunate because these are the most needy people , and I've gone. These are people that really , really work with us and defended us in their home country. And as Sean stated , we gave them the promise that we will be taking care of them. And it's going to be really , really , really bad , especially for families that are here already that are separated. Huh. I do not know how we can even think about stopping these people from coming here.
S3: This ban is going to mirror Trump , Wampanoags , Muslim and African bands , right ? I imagine that this could be an addition , an additional , um , adding two countries. Pakistan. What's really important is we're going to see all the same outcomes of Trump. 1.0 , right. We're going to see green card holders who may have been traveling or traveled kind of stuck. Um , we're going to see folks in the US who are green card holders , who , you know , were looking forward to after 20 years of saving and saving and saving , going to see their mom before she passes away , who are going to be unable to do that ? We're going to see people who had dreams of coming to school here , um , go to university and graduate from , you know , elite universities in the US who are not going to have those opportunities. So I think it's going to , in similar ways , have the same impacts. Right ? It's going to definitely hurt , you know , our moral standing in the world. I don't know how we can get hurt even more. But yeah , I think this will definitely be another cut. Uh , and then what we're going to see is for Afghans in particular. I'm really worried about the Afghan miners that we're working with who were waiting to be reunited with family , and it's going to be very unlikely if the third countries that they were sort of in limbo in waiting to be , because you can't be processed and you can't apply for reunification in Afghanistan , you have to go to Pakistan. So if Pakistan is on the on the Muslim ban or Muslim and African bans list , um , how are those families supposed to get reunited ? They won't. Right. And so this , uh , this administration is , you know , very committed to codifying into policy hate and fear mongering. They've been very successful with Trump 1.0 and with Trump 2.0. Um , we're seeing that vicious , you know , that viciousness that is , um , even more surgical and more strategic because they've had a , you know , a term to kind of vet this and figure out figure this out. So they're going to throw everything at us. And I'm very much not surprised that we've got another Muslim and African ban , um , on the horizon that's going to include a country like Pakistan.
S1: Sean , I want to hear from you too. Sure.
S4: Sure. So I was quoted in that story saying what I'm going to say again , which is if you have a green card or a US visa in your passport.
S3: Don't travel.
S4: Don't travel , but get here. Yeah , get back here if you can. Um , you can go to Afghani morgue slash self depart if you're an Afghan in need of that support. And we will help you if you have a US visa in your passport. Look , nothing has happened yet. What the genesis of this story is that , I mean , I know the genesis. The story was the Genesis , that story. Right ? Like the there's a report going to the white House in response to Executive Order 14161. And that report has a bunch of countries listed red , orange , yellow. Um , we know that Afghanistan is in the red bucket. We've heard Pakistan's either red or orange or maybe yellow , but definitely on the list. And here's the thing is that if you are a national of a country on that list , you're not going to be able to travel anywhere. Refugees can't travel at all right now anyway , but any other type of visa , you just won't be able to come here. Student visas , no fiance visas , no nothing. And here's the deal for our populations Afghan populations. There's 20,000 or so in Pakistan. I talked to the Pakistani ambassador on Friday. I'm worried about what happens to those folks they already intend because of the chaos in our government. They already intend to eject these folks from Pakistan back to Afghanistan on March 31st. If we don't get clarity on what comes next , right ? If they're added to this list , they're not going to respond well. They they are going to respond very poorly. And so my I approached the ambassador to say , hey , can you please , uh , like , you know , because of your great experience , like how this works. The courts are going to have a say , Congress is going to have a say , and they're frustrated and confused by what our government's doing. And look , I think that this policy will eventually get struck down , just like much of the last policy got struck down. But the chaos is the point , right ? And there's some damage you can't undo. Exactly.
S3: Exactly.
S4: And and they know that. And it's really unfortunate. So our strategy behind trying to push this ban out there early was to try to disrupt it. Right. And we're never going to hide anything from a vulnerable population. If I know something or if my team knows something , we're pushing it out there. The American people deserve to know what their government is doing , and this behavior is monstrous.
S1: Let me ask you this question. Uh , say you were an interpreter , uh , in Afghanistan. Um , or you helped , uh , train security guards.
S4: I do want to say that the State Department has requested an exemption for Afghan civs and Afghan folks in the enduring welcome pipeline to this upcoming policy now , but they don't have high hopes that it's going to happen , they said. You got to convince the white House. Um , if you're an interpreter , if you're somebody. So I you know , interpreters are sort of in common parlance of folks that people know about , but that's a pretty small bunch of people , right ? There's cultural advisors , there's drivers , there's folks that served , trained , bled and died alongside our military. There's their families. Right. And this isn't like our definition of a family does not meet the Afghan definition of family. So we're by nature separating families. And it's a really hard decision to make. But there's some narrative out there that that we're bringing all these , you know , cousins and brothers and uncles , and that's just not the case. But if you're somebody in the enduring welcome pipeline or if you're a refugee around the world who was promised a place here , you're losing a lot of faith , right ? I have often described it as depleting the well of trust. We're putting our national security at security risk yet again by telling people , by tricking people over and over and over again.
S3: Yeah , that people are mad at us. Um , yeah , we we behave very badly globally. And then we don't , you know , accept any responsibility for it. You know , I think that is the point , is to create that chaos , to leave us all scrambling and what's really what really sucks , I think , for advocates and people in the refugee space , people working with Afghans and immigrants in general , I think , is we are in a position where we're looking at this administration and we're looking at how to lose less bad. I mean , that is where we are. How do we lose less bad ? Who can we save ? What can we save ? And our immigration attorneys are working really incredibly hard right now , right , to make sure people can who apply for any kind of relief that they qualify for. But then now we're hearing we're not processing applications. And so it's one hurdle after another hurdle , and it's just not a very good place to be in. And I think that is why I always advocate. And I'm like , we need to be looking within ourselves to kind of create communities that that support that the values of caring and belonging and nurturing spaces for our children and for our families like that. We don't have to wait for the federal government , for families that are here.
S1: Coming up , we'll talk about what led the U.S. to its current refugee resettlement ban.
S3: If we make it okay to negotiate certain people's freedoms. And like that is where the conversation is. It's very easy for a nut job to come in and expand on that to do even more harm.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Refugee providers and resettlement agencies across the country are responding to funding cuts at the federal level. Right now , I'm speaking with Ramla Saeed , executive director of Pana partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. Also , Walter Lamb , president and CEO of Alliance for African Assistance , and Sean Vandiver , president of Afghan Evac. Walter. Um , President Trump has repeatedly made baseless , disparaging statements about immigrants and refugees that have really ramped up this term.
S2: So I really have to explain that all the refugees that are coming in here are people that are coming as guests of the State Department. And when they arrive , people think they don't even have a work permit. They're allowed to come here. The only job that refugees cannot hold in this country when they arrive is federal job that requires American citizenship. Otherwise , they are qualified for all sorts of jobs that you can have around here. And they come here legally. They are welcome to this country. And it's pathetic to hear some of the things that goes on. Uh , I attended some , uh , some meetings out there that refugees stands up and say , my name is so-and-so. I am a refugee , but not a terrorist. These are the kind of things that people talk about now. So it also depends on icier people in the refugee community to educate our community and change their mind. Let them know the truth. I think it's all upon us.
S1: You have to undo the rhetoric that's coming from the white House.
S4: Well , and you have to pick which piece of nonsense to combat , right ? I was I was on a show recently where the opening monologue was like , lie , lie.
S5: Lie , lie , lie , lie , lie , lie , lie.
S4: And I had to pick the most damaging lie to refute and just let it all go otherwise. So I could get my points in. Right. And it's the information space for all of this. Like we , we actually ended up having a lot of Afghans and coming over the , the southern border through CBP , one or otherwise. And we would be like , wait , wait , wait , don't do that. If you are a P1 , P2 , US rep referred refugee , you lose all of those benefits as soon as you cross into the United States , not through the refugee process. And there was just so much nonsense out there on the internet , both on the US side , talking about who these people are and on the international side , saying , just come through the border. It's really easy and it's. I can't imagine what it must feel like to not be able to trust 90% of the things you're here. Mhm.
S1: Mhm.
S3: And it's intentional. Creating chaos is intentional right. Yeah. And at the same time I think you have to understand that people who are fleeing for their lives aren't going to wait around for a program that's going to take nine years or three years , right ? Like they're gonna , you know , some people are like , they have to go and there's , you know , there's not an option. Um , but we're talking about kind of what's happening with this administration , what they're doing now. But , you know , if we take out Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0 , right. Um , how did our congressional reps how did they how did they operate ? How did they support and welcome refugees ? And I think H.R. 4038 , which was passed or which was introduced in 2015 , is a good example of that , um , that , you know , yes. When the Refugee Act of 1980 was passed , it was a bipartisan issue , right ? It was unanimously voted by by Congress. But since then , we've we've only chipped away at it. And Democrats and Republicans on both sides of the aisle. Um , did a lot of harm. Um , in H.R. 4038 is a good example of that. I actually think that was a precursor to Muslim ban 1.0. And whatever we're going to see , see now , Muslim Ban 2.0 , and it did not pass. But what what I'm saying is like that , you know.
S1: It was the seed. Exactly.
S3: Exactly. It was a seed. We made it. We made if we make it okay , right , to negotiate certain people's freedoms. And that is the that is the where the conversation is. It's very easy for a nut job to come in and expand on that and do even , you know , to do even more harm. And so I think we need to do more to hold our lawmakers accountable and and to understand , like , it's very important to understand that like refugee program was is not always or hasn't been for at least the last 20 years , a bipartisan issue , and we need to do more work to educate our lawmakers to really show up and stand up for the right things. Because if we're negotiating from a place of moral high ground , these are the gold standards. I mean , even if we get knocked down a peg , we're still pretty good.
S4: Where we saw the Afghan Adjustment Act , which would have , uh , which would have adjusted status for the , you know , 70,000 or so people that showed up here , uh , and added a bunch of other , uh , provisions that would be good for refugees , including one more round of US rap style vetting. Right ? So not taking away anything that Bill had Lindsey Graham and Tom cotton and Jerry Moran and all these , like , hard core Republicans on it. And I had a chance to like , I have talked to Lindsey Graham a couple of times about this , and what I learned is that there's foreign aid and the refugee program sort of go hand in hand , right. How we show up to the rest of the world , how we take care of the rest of the world. And what we're seeing now is we're seeing a bunch of like , foreign aid is a bipartisan issue right now. It seems like some people lost their microphones over the past few weeks , and I hope they will find them again. Um , but what I've seen is a lot of long standing conservative Republicans standing up for foreign aid. It's table stakes for Democrats. They're doing it just fine. But it has been shocking to me. Actually , the silence has been shocking to me over the past several weeks , and I think there's a lot going on. But it is bipartisan to support U.S. aid. In fact , USAID used to be sort of viewed as like the conservative agency. People were worried about it. Right. And now it's been vilified.
S1: Well , let me say this. I mean , there's plenty to talk about here , and it's an ongoing fight and you're all doing the work. But before I let you go , I want to ask you this final question just really quickly. What is your message for refugees right now who are facing a lot of fear and uncertainty ? Walter , I'll start with you.
S2: I my message to the refugees is please do not lose hope , because it's hope that has kept you all the way , fleeing from your country , staying in the refugee camp for so many years. And now that you're in the United States , it's a place that you can survive. Most importantly , as of now , please carry your ID with you all the time because you don't know who you're going to meet out there. And people love you. People care about you here in San Diego. And please don't give up and don't lose hope. Sean.
S1: Sean.
S4: Yeah , look , I'll echo what Walter said , right ? Don't lose hope. Um , and remember that what you see on the news today could change. Tomorrow could change next week. The the system is the political system is in a bit of a shock right now with all of the shock and all that , the Trump administration is deliberately bringing this chaos. But we know that , uh , we know that both Republicans and Democrats in Congress don't like to be told to pound sand. They know that they're a co-equal branch. They're supposed to be equal to the presidency. And I think we'll see them step up. And I hope that we will see the courts step up. So what you're hearing now is not the final word for your family. Um , please. You know , we've asked you to be patient. We've asked you to be patient again. Some of you have been waiting 20 years. Some of you have been waiting for years , um , or somewhere in between. And I would just say , hold out hope a little bit longer. Um , and we're going to make sure that , you know , the latest and greatest , if you're Afghan will be focused on you. But for all refugees , there's a lot of people pulling for you. A lot of people care about you here in San Diego and around the country , in the world. Ramla.
S1: Ramla.
S3: I'll say two things. One , to to our refugee community. Uh , you already know what to do. You are survivors. We're all survivors. Um , we are incredibly resourceful. We're incredibly powerful. Um , and to see community where , you know , where you can in terms of , you know , there are ethnic community based organizations in San Diego. If you're in El Cajon , the medical center , which is the Arab Resource Center in San Diego , it's a great place to go , um , to learn about your rights , um , to be connected to resources , but to also be , you know , being community with people who are going through life , um , in the ways that you are in City Heights. Come to Pana , the partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. We provide legal assistance. We're advocating for investments in refugee communities , including mental health , behavioral health resources , housing resources , and expanding rights for people. And we need you to be partners in that work. So join us in the panel space. And then the other message is for our government leaders , um , people who are supposed to be on our side , people who don't know they should be on our side , and people who are actively fighting , you know , against us like this chaos doesn't serve us , and we need to be mindful when we are in positions of power , that we can't create bifurcated systems that provide benefits to certain parolees and not others or , you know , and I'm Sean , I'm talking about , you know , the Afghan resettlement system and how chaotic that has been , but also Ukraine and Venezuela. And if we create these bifurcated systems that like , say , who can get what benefits , I think it only leads to more chaos and more disaster , and that we need to actually modernize a the refugee resettlement so that there is a clear path for people and that we need to be investing more in resources to make sure folks who have applications in can actually those applications can be processed in a timely manner , including work authorization , which , you know , the clock on that can stop for any reason , any time. And it's just it's a bureaucratic mess and people deserve more. And it's it's not fair.
S1: This was such a great conversation. Um , and of course , if you're looking for those resources , you can find them on our website at pbs.org. All of that information and much more will be there. I've been speaking with Ramla Saheed , executive director of Pana partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. Ramla. Thank you.
S3: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: And also Sean Vandiver , president of Afghan evac. Sean , thank you.
S4: Thanks so much for having me. You can visit Afghani org to learn more.
S1: And Walter Lamb , president and CEO of Alliance for African Assistance. Walter , thanks.
S2: It's an honor for me.
S1: Thanks for joining us today. KPBS reached out to the Health and Human Services Department , which oversees the Office of Refugee Resettlement , for comment on today's program. We did not receive comment by our deadline. The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Department declined to comment and referred questions to the white House. If you missed anything on today's show , you can download KPBS Midday Edition on all podcast apps. Don't forget to watch Evening Edition tonight at five for in-depth reporting on San Diego issues. I'm Jade Hindman. We'll talk again tomorrow. Have a great day , everyone.
