San Diego ends COVID emergency

S1: COVID emergency orders in today.

S2: Yeah , I think I can't really believe that it's been three years. It just feels like , I don't know , time kind of stopped in a weird way.

S1: I'm Jade Hindman. This is KPBS midday edition. The changes that came out of the COVID emergency and the safest ways to move forward.

S2: We still have to.

S1: Do the same things that we've been doing for the last three years now at a smaller scale. Well , who knows how the situation could change where we need to ramp up again ? The Padres , a $350 million contract extension and what it all means for their World Series Quest. Plus , a conversation with hip hop artist and craft brewer Kim Aqui. That's ahead on Midday Edition. After three years , California and San Diego County's COVID 19 emergency orders are ending today. KPBS health reporter Matt Hoffman has a look at what's next.

S3: It's been more than three years since San Diego County officials declared a state of emergency for COVID 19. It was announced in mid-February of 2020 out of an abundance of caution. Soon after , the governor's stay at home order was issued , along with California's state of emergency that resulted in 74 executive orders and nearly 600 additional provisions that state officials say helped save thousands of lives.

S4: There are a lot of regulations that were suspended as a result of the pandemic to allow us to move faster.

S3: Scripps Health CEO Chris Van Gorder says. Hospitals have been able to keep up with demand thanks to those orders. They allowed for higher patient to staff ratios and the ability to quickly add extra bed space.

S4: We could have had a real health care catastrophe had the government agencies not working hand in hand with.

S3: With health care providers. Last week , on Thursday , Scripps had 80 COVID patients admitted across the county. That's far from daily counts of more than 300 during surges. Van Gorder says it's time to end the state and local emergencies.

S4: That fear and , you know , verge of panic that we saw three years ago. It's really gone. Our our physicians , our nurses know how to take care of these patients.

S3: California's Department of Public Health says of the nearly 600 provisions issued , just 27 are in place until March. Masking is still required in health care settings and long term care facilities. State health officials say those orders are not tied to the pandemic emergency ending. And Van Gorder is waiting for more details. He's also looking to see if state officials will continue their vaccination requirement for health care workers.

S4: There's probably a lot of people , including hospital employees , that.

S3: Are curious about. That.

S4: That. And we'll wait and see what the state the state may decide to waive that when they waive the health care emergency or when they may extend it.

S3: The state and county have been winding down their pandemic responses. Long gone are the mass driver vaccination and testing sites. San Diego County public health officer Dr. Wilma Wooten has been leading the region's pandemic response.

S1: We still have to do the same things that we've been doing for the last three years now at a smaller scale. But who knows how the situation could change where we need to ramp up again.

S3: Wooten says plans are in place should they need to scale up again. But she says the pandemic is manageable.

S1: The cases are not as low as I would like to see them. They are between mid two hundreds , so that is evidence that the virus is still circulating in the community and we can't rest on our laurels and.

S2: We are through. This.

S1: This. The pandemic is not over.

S3: The county is continuing to monitor COVID through San Diegans wastewater and recently the amount of virus has been going up.

S4: Things are overall pretty darn good in San Diego County. The only issue that doesn't go in the right direction is the wastewater surveillance shows some uptick , but hospitalizations are way down.

S3: Dr. Eric Topol from the Scripps Research Translational Institute isn't forecasting any substantive changes with the state and local pandemic emergencies going away ? The virus has been producing new variants , but while things are relatively quiet , he would like to see investments in better vaccines.

S4: We're not prepared and we could be working on this , but we're not getting serious enough.

S3: Topol and other health officials say COVID certainly isn't going away and could look similar to the flu with vaccinations recommended every year. Topol says If we continue to have minor COVID waves , the virus could be considered endemic. But that's too early to say for sure.

S4: It all depends on whether this virus can find a new path to get to hosts and hurt us , whether it's run its course.

S3: The federal COVID emergency is set to end in early May. For all Californians , vaccines testing and treatments will still be available with no out-of-pocket costs for an additional six months.

S1: That story from KPBS health reporter Matt Hoffman. And Matt is with us now to talk more about the end of the COVID emergency declaration. Hey , Matt.

S3: Hey , J. Great to be here.

S1: Also with me is Rebecca Fielding Miller , who we have heard from on this program many times throughout the last three years of the COVID 19 pandemic. She is an assistant professor at the University of California , San Diego , in the Herbert Wertheim School of Public Health and the Division of Infectious Disease and Global Public Health. Her research includes examining the structural drivers of COVID 19. Welcome back , Rebecca.

S2: Thank you so much for having me.

S1: Great to have you both with us. All right , Matt , I'm going to start with you. San Diego is ending a three year emergency COVID declaration. It's another milestone in this pandemic. And I wanted to give you a chance to reflect on your time covering the virus and where we are now.

S3: Well , first , I can't really believe it's been three years. I mean , it seems like that time has flown by. You know , looking back to those early days , you know , if you remember , we had , you know , evacuees from Wuhan that came here , stayed at MSI , Ace , Miramar. So we kind of had an early taste of coronavirus before we started seeing some of our own cases here. And , you know , in those early days , there was a lot of unknowns , it seemed like , and health officials were taking a lot of precautions. I mean , there was the universal mask mandate. We saw a lot of restrictions being placed on businesses trying to limit people's travels. You know , even grocery stores had certain hours and employees had to mask up. I think we've come a long way. And , you know , some people unhappy with some of those restrictions , you know , as it pertains to businesses as pertain to masking. But you always heard health officials say we're following the science. And I think you saw that in that , you know , you remember at first there was a universal mask mandate. Like even when you're outside , we want you to have your mask on. But we saw those changes as the pandemic went along like that. It became an indoor only mask mandate. And we know that's because in areas with poor ventilation indoors , COVID can spread a lot easier. Also , when I think back to this , I think about the strain on the on the health care system , the hospitals. There was a couple points during some winter surges where , you know , they weren't nearly overwhelmed. They bent , but they didn't break. And then vaccines came along and , you know , really helped us get in a place now where , you know , you just heard the public health officer say that this is very manageable.

S1:

S2: It just feels like , I don't know , time kind of stopped in a weird way. I think that it makes sense that we're moving out of a state of emergency. You know , like some of the other folks said , I do think that we are moving in to whatever epidemic is going to look like with this virus. And endemic , by the way , is not a victory lap. And Demick just means that it is here at the levels that we are seeing are going to be the levels that maybe we see moving forward. I think what's really striking about what Matt just said is that the state and the county have done a pretty good job of following the science , for example. Okay , maybe we don't need to mask outdoors. Ventilation is really important , but we also have pretty clear science on not just how physical structures affect our health , but how social structures do so. The one thing that I worry about as we lift this state of emergency is how those big social structures are going to create risk. What's going to happen when people lose access to testing , when vaccines aren't as affordable anymore , when treatment isn't affordable , when you can't just go down and get a test a couple of miles away for free. And I worry that those social and economic structures are the thing that's going to start to drive more risk.

S1:

S2: But in short , what what we see a lot with infectious disease globally historically is it tends to be the communities that are sort of have the least investment that have been kind of pushed to the sides historically. Those are the communities where viruses tend to settle. So we see that with HIV and a lot of folks who are doing work now in COVID came over from HIV because that was the big infectious disease. We see how even after a lot of people have kind of moved on , it's not a problem for me. It's still a problem for people who who don't have enough money , who don't have paid sick leave , who are worried about what it might mean for their documentation status or a loved one's documentation status if they access public services. And so my concern is , as the public health emergency gets lifted , it means money goes away. We were able to do a lot of really innovative things that we don't usually do around health care. With those emergency funds , we were able to provide vaccines to adults for free. We could provide health care tests to adults for free treatment was relatively easy to access. And so as we lift that access , it's just going to make it more difficult for folks who are already more likely to get ill , more likely to suffer the worst effects. It's now going to be more difficult for them to get vaccinated , to get tested , to get treatment.

S1:

S2:

S1: Only if you had a crystal ball.

S2: If only. Yeah. You know , I think the best thing that we can do with that is , is look to the history of other pandemics. And I think , you know , a lot of people looked to the the big flu pandemic. But also , I think we can look to the history of HIV , too , like I mentioned before. And I think what we will see is many of us , especially those of us who have a doctor that we think is trustworthy , who feel comfortable , you know , walking into a CVS and saying , hey , I really need this thing. Those of us for whom a $10 $15 rapid test is not a major burden , I think we'll be able to live a pretty normal life. Some of us will keep masking. I still wear a mask in the grocery store. Some of us won't. And maybe we'll get COVID and maybe we won't. But I think for other people , those who don't have paid sick leave , those who can't. Ten , $15 for an antigen test is a lot of money. I think that this will continue to be a major feature of life. And I think one thing that we will probably see more of is the effects of long COVID. We know about 10 to 30% of people who get COVID have long term symptoms , more than three months , up to two years so far. And I wonder if we're going to see more long term disability , in particular in communities that are more at risk of COVID and have less access to these prevention and treatment measures.

S1: I mean , Matt , we currently have low levels of COVID in the community according to county data.

S3: I mean , you heard Dr. Wooten in that story say that , you know , we're still averaging in the , you know , two hundreds or so , four daily case counts far beyond like the tens of thousands , you know , 16,000 that we saw during some of those surge in those daily numbers. But a lot of people aren't , you know , testing , you know , and to make it to make I guess let me back up a little bit. Those official numbers come from lab PCR tests. And if you just sit there and think to yourself , when was the last time you know that you went out and got tested at a facility ? A lot of people are testing at home now , and we know that those tests can be very reliable , but they don't make it into official case counts. So something that the county officials and state officials and really nationally , too , is this push toward wastewater. And Rebecca talked about it a little bit , too. That's kind of the future. And we've seen the levels go up a little bit recently. There was just some new data that shows that that they're going back down. But it's definitely hard. It would seem to get a grasp on how much COVID is out there. I mean , anecdotally , you hear friends that are testing positive , but that's just not making it into those counts.

S1:

S2: I know that I personally , when I'm looking at COVID numbers and kind of gauging what I'm personally comfortable doing , I look at the wastewater because , like Matt said , it's most people are using home tests and that's great that they're so accessible. So the wastewater is really the best and most accurate way we know to know what's happening. I think actually , even here in San Diego , we've done some really cutting edge work. I was lucky enough to lead a project looking at how we could use wastewater monitoring in schools. And we found that you can detect at least one case on campus with 95% accuracy. You could do that for a year for less than the cost of a single PCR per kid. And I think that's amazing. And we're learning all of the things that you can track through wastewater. So not just COVID , but the flu and RSV and impacts certainly all the classic things that would show up in wastewater like norovirus that small children are so good at spreading. And I think we're just going to see more really exciting advances in this and in our ability to sort of do genetic sequencing to catch things early. And I think in addition to keeping an eye on future surges of COVID , that's really important because COVID is in many ways a climate change issue. We are going to see more of these zoonotic diseases as our climates change , as people come into contact with new animal reservoirs , and there will be more of these viruses jumping from animals to humans , and we're going to have to do a better job catching them early.

S1: That's an entire conversation and book all on its own. Yeah. But I do have some questions about the wastewater. One is you say that you can use that data to really set your own personal risk to assess that.

S2: And there's honestly just a website search COVID info. I go to I check it a lot of days and it tells you how much COVID is in the wastewater. It tells you what the current variants are. And I kind of look at that and I say , you know , I really want to go out on a date with my husband tonight. Should we eat inside or or should we eat outside ? I look at it and I say , Oh , it looks like numbers are really climbing. I'm going to be extra annoying to my family when they come over for a birthday party and ask them to take an antigen test. And so I just use that to have a sense of trends and to know how many mitigation measures I want to put in place so I can go about living my normal life. But , you know , try my best not to get this virus.

S1:

S2: So that's one of the things that's really exciting about wastewater. If you can get excited about wastewater , it's actually a leading indicator. So it's really current. I think , you know , I would have to check what the turnaround is , but I want to say it's within 1 to 2 days of when samples are pulled from the treatment facility. That data makes it up on to that search website. And one of the things that's really interesting about wastewater is the virus will actually show up in your stool often before it will show up in your nose. And so you can actually see what is coming by looking at the wastewater data before it even starts to show up in the case rates. So it's it's really current. It's sometimes even a leading indicator , and it's probably the best tool we have right now for knowing what's happening.

S1: Very interesting. Also , Rebecca , in Matt Story , we heard Dr. Eric Topol say we should be investing in better vaccines.

S2: But one thing I am really hopeful for is , you know , you'll hear people say , well , I'm vaccinated and it's just the flu. It's just a cold. I to me personally , I don't think we're to a place where it's just a flu or just the cold yet. Like I said , I have concerns about long COVID. I have concerns about sort of this whole body number that the virus does on you. But I'm really hopeful that as we sort of get to a place with yearly updates with vaccines , with the possibility of a nasal vaccine like Dr. Topol talks about with better , more tailored treatments , we can get to a place where it's just a cold or just the flu , and it's not that big a deal. But again , I have to emphasize for people who have access to those things , because especially with the state of emergency being lifted , there will be people who don't have access. And so my biggest worry is that we move into a place where for 70% of the county , it's just a flu and 30% of the people , it's a potentially debilitating disease.

S1: And I think the trickiest part of this is it's difficult to assess your risk when you don't know what the outcome of long COVID could be.

S2: Yeah , and there's a lot of work happening on that. I just came back from Croatia , which is sort of the premiere virus conference , and a lot of people are working to figure this out , working to figure out who is it that's more affected , who is it that's less affected ? Do we have biomarkers for it ? Can you do a blood test and figure it out ? What are the different ways that it can look ? One thing that sort of emerging that I think is really interesting is it appears that women in their late middle age seem to be more likely to experience long COVID. I have no idea why. But as an almost 40 year old woman , it makes me a lot less interested in getting COVID. And I think we'll see a lot of progress there , too , because I know a lot of smart people are really working on it. But again , we're not quite there yet.

S1: You know , Matt , as KPBS is health reporter , you'll continue to cover COVID.

S3: You know , we're seeing people impacted by this and it really impacts people in different ways. You know , for some people , it's this long term fatigue. But then you're also seeing stories about people being at higher risk for things like diabetes or maybe even like brain damage. So , you know , we've only had this for about three years. So , you know , a lot of those long studies are hopefully still going on , probably still happening. There's also this question of where did the virus originate from ? It's kind of been in the news this week. You know , did it come from an animal ? Did it come from a lab ? You know , it sounds like the federal government says that there's no consensus on that yet. I think that's something that we want to pay attention to. And sort of as Dr. Topol and Rebecca were alluding to , you know , can we keep up with this virus ? You know , it sounds like it could go. Endemic in the way that flu is. You know , it sounds like we're not really there yet , but , you know , with these emergencies going away , the federal emergency going away. We've seen funding for COVID be cut back. Congress not not providing as much as they were before. And so we've seen things like. Like some treatments for COVID that aren't keeping up with the latest versions of this virus.

S1:

S2: Know , you know , I I think one thing that has been really interesting about the sort of state of emergency and I agree , three years is a long time for emergency. Maybe that's not quite where we need to be anymore , but it did allow us to be really innovative and really thoughtful and be really mindful about health equity outcomes. And I think in San Diego in particular , we've done a really great job of that. So I my hope is just as we continue to move forward into whatever endemic looks like that we are still able to find mechanisms to keep that equity response at the core.

S1: I've been speaking with KPBS health reporter Matt Hoffman and Rebecca Fielding Miller , assistant professor at the University of California , San Diego , and the Herbert Wertheim School of Public Health and the Division of Infectious Disease and Global Public Health. Thank you both very much for your time.

S2: Thank you so much.

S3: Thanks , Jay.

S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Over the weekend , the San Diego Padres announced an 11 year , $350 million contract extension with All-Star third baseman Manny Machado. So what does this mean for the team and its World Series ? Quest. Bryce Miller , a sports columnist with the San Diego Union-Tribune , talked about this with Midday Edition producer Andrew Bracken. Here's their conversation.

S5: Over the weekend , the San Diego Padres announced an 11 year , $350 million contract extension with All-Star third baseman Manny Machado. So what does this mean for the team and its World Series ? Quest ? Here to tell us more is Bryce Miller , sports columnist with the San Diego Union Tribune. Bryce , welcome back to Midday Edition.

S4: Thanks , Andrew.

S5:

S4: It's an 11 year extension on top of the current deal that was in place. The total amount of money related to the extension is $350 million. So it's big and it's significant in and of itself. It becomes essentially when you put those two contracts together , it's a half a billion dollar commitment to Manny Machado over 15 years. It's one of the biggest contracts in baseball history. And the only three contracts that are bigger currently , Mike Trout , Mookie Betts , Aaron Judge. So when you're starting to talk about somebody in that in a conversation with those types of players , that that's significant on its own level , unlike the past contract that had an opt out option for Manny Machado next year that got the ball rolling on all this , he had said , and it makes a lot of sense that he would explore free agency , but didn't necessarily mean he would leave. They offered a deadline to the Padres , which the Padres did not meet , and Kevin Casey , a colleague of mine at the Union-Tribune , reported at that point , the Padres have made just one offer. So in that moment , you you wondered , is this going to be an all season long distraction ? Are they going to get this done ? Are they trying to diplomatically move on from Manny Machado and chase down a longer term deal with Juan Soto , maybe go after Shohei Ohtani a year from now ? But then , very quickly , Peter Seidler , who talked to the media here at Peoria , Arizona , at the Padres spring training complex , called Machado his top priority. And he delivered on that just a few days later when this deal came together. But it's also significant because it eliminates the distraction of that being a question all season long for a team that's in this window to contend with a lot of really talented players. It probably , you know , raises the confidence level in that clubhouse. That means that , you know , stars like Fernando Tatis Jr. Zander Bogart's and Machado will be together for 11 years. They finalize deals for pitchers Joe Musgrove for five more years. Yu Darvish for six more years. So there's a huge core that now that you've mopped up the Machado contract situation that are going to be together for a long time. So on both those levels it's it's significant.

S5:

S4: But if you ask me , he's one of the most well rounded , overall talented players in the game. Offensively and defensively , he's elite. He was the number two vote getter in the NL MVP race a year ago. He's a past Gold Glove winner. But that rare combination of his ability to produce often and simply to be an elite defender and he plays every day. He hasn't been on the injured list since 2015 , which is remarkable. So , you know , you're getting him and you're getting that production basically almost every day , all season long. All those things kind of stir together why he's a player worth investing in for a lot of reasons.

S5: And so longtime Padre fans probably are still accustomed to star players signing with other teams rather than staying in San Diego , though , that trend has shifted in recent years.

S4: It tells you he liked San Diego. He and his wife were comfortable here. They built a house on on Coronado. This has grown into his team. He's kind of the center of this clubhouse in so many ways , even with all that other talent around him. But I think the most important thing it tells you is that he thinks they can win here. He thinks they can win a World Series here. That deal essentially locks him down for life. He will spend his entire career the rest of his career as the San Diego Padres. And there's no way he would do that , no matter the money , no matter how much he likes San Diego weather , unless he really believed they could win. He's a guy that's critical to him. And I think this deal tells you that he thinks it'll happen here.

S5: And in your most recent column , you write. The way we judge these deals often is a little overly simplistic. You write , it's all or nothing , black or white , good or bad , fearless genius or reckless nonsense. But ultimately , you say this deal lives somewhere in between.

S4: There's the short term , there's the medium term and there's the long term. The short term is a no brainer. I mean , they're in a window to contend is playing probably as well as he he has in his career at age 30 and almost 31. But in this window to contend they may only have one Soto for one more season before he opts for free agency or at least explores that route. So in the short term , you want Manny Machado here a year from now because of all the talent they've assembled. That window to really chase the World Series potentially is this year next. And the more these long term deals line up , you know , that opens that window and extends it a bit long term , You know , will he be playing the left side of the infield when he's 40 ? I doubt it. Probably not. But just look at Nelson Cruz , the designated hitter for the Padres , really talented offensive player. You know , he's in his forties and he's going to play a lot for the Padres this season. So you could envision a long term scenario where Manny Machado is a designated hitter because of his ability to hit a baseball. And really , if they win a World Series or two across those 11 seasons , that deal will have been worth it no matter the financial , you know , expenditures along the way , just because this city has never experienced a World Series championship.

S5:

S4: We went way past unprecedented in San Diego that that hurdle is far in the rearview mirror. But what it's really done is shocked baseball. They have become an everyday story at spring training. I've seen more national media , more media period in the early days of spring training. But they're the talk of baseball just every day. It seems like people sit there and say , What will the Padres do next ? Which has never happened in franchise history. You've never had Commissioner Rob Manfred talking and Rockies owner Dick Monfort talking about is this sustainable ? Is it bad for the game ? Is it wise ? Why are people like that talking about the Padres ? Because what they're doing is never happened before. There's a version of that going on right now with the Mets and owner Steve Cohen. He's the richest owner in baseball pretty easily. But that's a New York market with the richest owner in baseball. It's not as surprising there as it is in San Diego , where although it's the eighth largest city in the country , it's somewhere around the 27th largest media market. For some reason , they're still , you know , hitting what the big clubs , the ones that the big spenders , traditionally the Dodgers , the Yankees teams like that Red Sox to a degree in their history. And for that reason , it's it's completely unprecedented.

S5: And switching gears here , you know , Manny Machado also received some attention on Friday. He became the first player to commit a pitch clock violation. That's something brand new to the MLB this season , Right.

S4: It was the first clock violation with the new rule in the major leagues. Essentially there are 30 seconds between batters and there are 15 seconds between pitches and there are clocks that show those times. I guess I should say the 15 seconds between pitches is what ? The base is empty. If there are runners on it , it goes it extends a little bit to 20 seconds. But and once once a pitcher begins the delivery , that clock resets. But what I don't think people anticipated on the hitting side of that conversation , you have to be the phraseology there is alert for the pitcher in the batter's box. You can't be outside the batter's box or in the box and looking down and still doing a bunch of things. You need to be ready to hit the baseball with 8 seconds left on the clock. So Machado violated that. And what happens is it's an automatic strike. So he started that back count oh one before he ever saw baseball. And a game ended because of that rule in spring training , which I don't think anybody anticipated the odds of that happening. But it was a third strike led to a strikeout. I think it was Braves Red Sox , but it ended the game. Can you imagine what that would look and feel like if it's late in the season ? People are chasing playoff spots. So right now , it's kind of funny. Manny had fun with it. Still wanted that at bat with the hit , but yet it's a rule that as the season goes along , it could play it could play a factor in the outcome of games , and that's probably more than people anticipated.

S5:

S4: I think the more surprising part is hitters in terms of the examples we just talked about , really the biggest impact they've they've tried this in the minor leagues clock violations and it trimmed the time on games significantly. I think it was 25 minutes or so. I think we saw that early in spring training here. The first couple of days game times were more in the range of two and a half hours rather than 3 hours plus. And I think that is exactly the goal of that rule. Most of the criticism from especially younger fans or younger people or on the fence about whether to be a baseball fan is that games just take too long.

S5: And finally , you know , as we speak , you're in Arizona with the team. The Padres just finished up playing their fourth spring training game.

S4: I mean , it's so early. You know , Manny Machado , I think he was maybe four for his first five , something like that. Juan Soto had a huge day. The other day , some of the big stars produced early. The part that's hard to figure right now , especially early in spring training , is what do pitching staffs and rotations look like ? They're very careful with arms , early starters. And these games might go two innings , some only go one inning. They like to see a lot of different pitchers and situations who would be on the fence in terms of whether they could contribute make the roster. Same thing with a lot of position players. There's so much mixing and matching that goes on. But maybe the one overarching thing I talked to Matt Carpenter , you know , an all star , he played for the Cardinals. He's a veteran guy who's won a lot of games , played on the biggest stages. And he said , I've been an all star games. But walking in this clubhouse feels like an all star game clubhouse. Even guys who have seen it all are impressed by what it looks like in that clubhouse in terms of the amount of talent. So that's a part of how the spring training feels different. And it's it's really the first and second and third impression you have when you when you're around the Padres at this point.

S1: That was San Diego Union-Tribune sports columnist Bryce Miller speaking with Midday Edition producer Andrew Bracken. The Padres are in spring training this week , and right now they are playing the San Francisco Giants. Who ? You're listening to KPBS Midday edition. I'm Jade Hindman. San Diego is a beer town. There are more than 150 independent craft breweries here , according to the Brewers Guild. What has long been missing from the craft brewing industry , however , is better representation of brewers from ethnically diverse backgrounds. San Diego native and rapper Kemet Aki is trying to change that. One beer at a time. A brewer at Second Chance Beer company. He hopes his work in the industry will help bring about a more inclusive brewing scene. I spoke with Cameron Key recently about beer and music. Here's our conversation.

S6: Broken bottles and Crystal King met the cows in the camera drum. He nods in my system , cracking up on black. Let's go get the next one. Think it over.

S1: So , Kemet , what got you into brewing in the first place ? Were you a big beer guy before becoming a brewer ? Definitely.

S4: I was always a big beer guy , just not so much in the education of beer. Just a big beer drinker was my interest. For the most part , I got into the actual art of it by getting hired at Second Chance Brewery and started to learn more about the processing and just the different types of styles in the art behind the craft.

S1: And you got into brewing after spending some time in the Army.

S4: I was in Ireland for some time there and I tried some Guinness on tap. That was the first time I tried it on tap and it was delicious. Changed my whole perspective of drinking Guinness beer. I was in Amsterdam and went to the Heineken brewery there. That was awesome. I got to bottle my own Heineken. I guess that would be the spark , actually , to to what really got things going.

S1:

S4: You know , it's really just coming around the idea of just thinking of the beer , thinking of the whatever style that you're going to be creating. Thinking of the king and thinking of the are thinking of everything with the ingredients. So coming from just the idea of beer to the final King product and tasting that , that finishing product is my immediate favorite part of it.

S1:

S4: But I think my favorite beer is West Coast IPA.

S1: So listen , if I had to pick through my favorite pair of shoes , I don't know that I could do it. So.

S4: Yeah , that that's what I'm seeing. That's the closest Zucker related. I'm sure that's very difficult choice.

S1: It's difficult. It's difficult , but but still , I'm impressed. West Coast. Okay. A lot of people can find certain kinds of beer to be a little inaccessible or even intimidating.

S4: You know , we have lagers in craft beer and yeast , and those are easier , more approachable drinkers. You know , I think just easing in instead of diving in as opposed to swimming , then , you know , you might have a better experience.

S1: And you've developed your own beer. It's a hoppy kolsch called All I Want , and it was designed specifically for Black History Month. Talk a little bit about this creation.

S4: The all I want calls for is created mainly to just educate and put awareness in the community about craft beer. And that's the whole reason I wanted to make a beer was just to , you know , educate more people on it , right ? So I spoke to the owners and second chance about my brand. My friends are rappers and that I was trying to do something different with my brand , yet separate myself from , you know , as just an apparel company. You know , they were interested and we collaborated with Chula Vista Brewery that first year , did release party there and it was great turnout. And , you know , we brought a lot of local artists to the release party and , you know , brought some new , new music to the community.

S1:

S4: And what I came up with was all I want is a second chance. And it really just came naturally with me being a second chance. And so all I want is a second chance beer. And so that's pretty much what sparked the idea behind that.

S1: Oh , ingenious. So black and brown brewers are often underrepresented in this industry.

S4: They're not really interested in things that they don't really know about as well as , you know , the way that it is perceived to them in marketed. Even because you'll see a lot of black and brown people in the industries , obviously , and you don't see so much of it being marketed to them in a way that they feel that it's organic and something that they can relate to. So I feel like that's something that I'm doing with All I Want is bringing in authentic feel to the craft beer industry or not even just to feel just bringing authenticity from our community and bringing our community as a whole.

S1: I mean , so do you hope that your work and involvement in the craft brewing scene will inspire others to get involved ? Definitely.

S4: I hope that it can inspire many people to come into the craft beer industry and find different types of roles in the craft beer industry and start to bring more people of color and make a change in this.

S1: Beer is also a collaboration with your brand. All my friends are rappers , which really boost the local hip hop scene.

S4: You know , if you if you drink beer , you know , if you're don't drink alcohol , of course , then , you know , we'll have to get you a fresh bottle of water. But I definitely think that , you know , just beers are cool to give to a friend and , you know , talk about your day , listen to music , or just hang out with you.

S6: Get back up on its feet. Quick is like meaning go. Hi. Give us your home. I mean , don't forever be sounding like a broken record before they read this. And when you look up in the sky , you see me flying. But it's like a wish.

S1: We've been talking about beer and hip hop , also known as beer in bars , right ? Yes. So , you know , I'm curious , can you give me your top three local beers and your top three local rappers ? Okay.

S4: I'll say my top three local rappers be now in this order. Audrey Kelly , the Dreamer.

S6: Seem to think about seeing a lot of orange being compared than a dream of black like you on everything , you know ? Smith I'm feeling like the King of Rock won't succeed The need the team in draft proceed to stack the season No reason not to be green The fact that the team behind just the bonus for Kelly King James been the coldest because notwithstanding the rain.

S4: Where it skills.

S6: Kelly's shot can't find any king who want to challenge. I guess we came to see this thing I'm omnipresent Rameses to be killed but not accomplished soft touch on the drums just that is not impressive. But the first step happens. Second guessing.

S4: Marty McFly.

S6: You ain't wronger , right ? This is life. This is you , Yang. This is dark and light. So I sparkle because you and me was night and day hiding pain , finding ways to slide away. Some were place , some was just to get away. In a way Recognize we wasn't meant to stay in the same room with different mental state and both tried to manipulate.

S4: And top three beers. I would go with all I want. I would go with 394 Brown L Smith and go with the fire Pale Ale balance play.

S1: I know that was difficult.

S4: It was actually very difficult. If I keep a pair of shoes , you know , for sure. Yeah , that would be my most accurate.

S1: Hey , Kevin , it's been great talking to you , and best of luck in your endeavor. I've been speaking with Kim , a key , a brewer with Second Chance beer company. And again , thanks for talking with us today.

S4: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.