S1: It's time for Midday Edition on Kpbs. On today's show , we are exploring threats to our democracy. I'm Jade Hindman. Here's to conversations that keep you informed , inspired and make you think. As efforts to add a media literacy requirement for California's students continue , we take a look at the role media literacy plays in our democracy.
S2: As the country becomes more polarized and we're about to enter this divisive election season , I think that the you know , the importance of critical thinking and good media literacy skills is more urgent than ever.
S1: Plus , we take a look at the role social media plays in American hate and extremism today. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Misinformation and disinformation live on social media platforms. They are indeed the wild , wild West for information. But when so many people rely on social media for news and few can tell the difference between credible information and fabricated information , it becomes a threat to our democracy. California legislators are trying to change that. AB 873 passed the state Senate last week. The bill requires students in K through 12 to learn about media literacy in their core subjects. Assembly member Mark Berman says the legislation he authored is urgently needed. He joins us to talk about why. Assembly member Berman. Welcome.
S3: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: Glad to have you here. You know , first I want to talk about the problem here so that people can understand why you feel AB 837 is so urgently needed.
S3: Yeah , well , you know , when we were growing up , we got our news from the newspaper or maybe from the nightly news. But children today are inundated by misinformation and disinformation on social media networks and digital platforms. And we've seen too often in the last couple of years what happens online often has the most terrifying of real world impacts , whether that's climate denial or vaccine conspiracy theories or the January 6th attack on our nation's capital , on our democracy , the spread of online misinformation has global and sometimes deadly consequences. And so I believe that we have a responsibility to teach the next generation to be more critical consumers of online content , more guarded against misinformation and propaganda and conspiracies. And so AB 873 will ensure that students get the instruction that they need to be more responsible digital citizens , more intentional , also more intentional about what they put online and better understanding online safety and privacy issues. So I really think media literacy instruction is is essential to keeping our students safer online and to safeguarding the future of our democracy.
S1:
S3: There's a ton of foreign interference and foreign kind of misinformation campaigns to influence our elections in the United States. So , yes , I do think that there's a real danger to our democracy. I think there's a real danger to our society if people don't have the skills that they need to better identify , you know , what is intentional misinformation or what is unintentional disinformation and be able to do their own research to determine whether or not what they're being inundated with is true or not. And so we're not trying to we're not trying to , you know , push an agenda. We're not trying to tell people , you know , what to believe. We want to make sure that people have the skills that they need to determine what's real and what isn't in all of the information that they're being inundated with , whether it's on on Twitter or TikTok or YouTube or anywhere else on the Internet.
S1: And can you talk about how AB 873 the media literacy bill might help eliminate these threats to our democracy , at least with this generation of K through 12 students ? Yeah.
S3: My hope is that the bill will teach the next generation to be more guarded against online propaganda , to be able to identify misinformation , to understand that algorithms narrow the content that they're getting , which can often reinforce already held beliefs. Um , and I think one of the most important parts of the bill is digital citizenship , which we include as a part of media literacy. And you know , that would provide students with a diverse set of skills related to current technology and social media , including the norms of appropriate , responsible and healthy online behavior. And I joke with folks that my hope , you know , I wish I could I could I wish I wish all adults could take media literacy courses. We can't force adults to go back to school. But my hope is that their kids get this training , develop these skills , and then and then share those skills with their parents or their grandparents so that we all are more critical consumers of of all of the information that we're being kind of pummeled with online.
S1: You mentioned this concept of digital citizenship. Can you explain what that is exactly ? Yeah.
S3: You know , digital citizenship is. Kind of understanding how important it is to be a constructive citizen , a constructive actor online , on the Internet. And so , you know , this is issues around cyber bullying. This isn't , you know , not not being a cyber bullying. This is , you know , getting the skills to to understand the broad reach that the Internet can have and how important it is to be careful about the information that we put online , whether that's conspiracy theories or just information about ourselves , and understanding that when we share a photo or when we share personal information on the Internet , that we you know , that that can spread very quickly and we lose control over over our own personal privacy depending on what we put online. And so digital citizenship is , you know , how to be a good upstanding user and participant in the Internet and then hope that that , you know , we see so much on these social media platforms , the negativity , the lies , the the bullying. And we need to we need to move away from that. And hopefully youth learning how to be better digital citizens will start to roll back some of the negative things that come with widespread use of social media platforms in the Internet.
S1:
S3: Research has shown that media literacy is best learned in practice when it's integrated into the school's curriculum and when it's integrated into the four core subjects of English , math , science and history. And so we talk to teachers and librarians , school board members , you know , everybody involved in the education kind of space. And that's how we came up with this framework. And integrating media literacy into these core subjects also mirrors how we come across misinformation online , right ? We're exposed to misinformation that's woven into information about science or public health or politics or the Holocaust , for example. You know , whether it's history with the Holocaust or science with vaccines , you know , we can come across misinformation in every subject area. And so integrating media literacy , teaching into every subject area just makes it more natural for students to get those skills that that will make them stronger digital citizens in the future.
S1: You know , in talking about like misinformation and disinformation online , there's also this reality that there's distrust of media and actual legitimate sources of information. How ? Yeah , how big of a role does that play in what solutions to that do you see in AB 837.
S3: A lot of it is helping students be able to identify what is a legitimate source for for information versus what's an ad or what's , you know , somebody that clearly is trying to push their own agenda. And so because studies show that that students , their older students , smart students , cannot tell the difference between what is a natural organic post on social media and what is a paid advertisement. That's obviously trying to push a narrative and agenda , trying to get those , you know , consumers to behave a certain way. And so media literacy , you know , I think can be very important in helping to regain that trust that we have in in the media , regain that trust that we have in neutral sources of information and help young people understand , you know , hear what are trustworthy sources versus , you know , sources where if I'm told something by that source , I better go check that myself. And it's always good for for young people to check the sources themselves and do their own research. When I was growing up , we'd go to the encyclopedia , write to to try to figure out whether or not a fact was true. Nowadays , you can do that a lot faster online , but you can also go into rabbit holes where , you know , there's there's a lot more false information than there is accurate information.
S1: So your legislation passed the state Senate last Friday. It now sits with Governor Gavin Newsom to sign into law.
S3: I've learned in this job that never to assume that that any governor will automatically sign a bill. I've had some. Very benign bills in the past that have been vetoed. So I'm confident that the governor will sign this bill. He has until the middle of October to make that determination. But we're also going to make sure that if the governor has any questions about , you know , what we're trying to accomplish , that we'll be there to provide answers. Clearly , this governor , Governor Newsom , understands the dangers of online misinformation and disinformation , and he's been a strong advocate in trying to push back against the negative real world impacts of that misinformation and disinformation. So I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll sign the bill , but we want to make sure that he has all the information he needs when making that decision.
S1: And once the bill is signed , do you have any sense of when California students might start to have these media literacy lessons as part of their core curriculum ? Yeah.
S3: So it will it will happen on a on a rotating basis. So the bill directs the Instructional Quality Commission to incorporate media literacy content into these core subject areas when their curriculum frameworks are revised. And so I believe that I'll start next year. I can't remember which subject area will be revised in 2024 , but as those core subject areas are revised over the next few years , we'll integrate media literacy into the curriculum. So the earliest , you know , it would happen would be in a year or a little over a year , as the IC as the Instructional Quality Commission revises these curriculum frameworks.
S1: I've been speaking with California Assembly member Mark Berman , who represents the 23rd Assembly District , which includes parts of San Francisco Peninsula and Silicon Valley. Assembly member Berman , thank you so much for joining us.
S3: It's my pleasure. Thanks so much for for chatting with me today.
S1: Coming up on Midday Edition , more on what media literacy means to our democracy.
S2: Everyone in their pocket has access to information 24 hours a day , and not all of it is trustworthy or credible.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. Welcome back to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We just heard from California Assembly member Mark Berman , the lead author of a bill that would bring media literacy to all California schools. We wanted to talk more about digital literacy , both here in California and across the country and the world. I am joined now by Carolyn Jones. She's the K through 12 education reporter with Cal Matters. Carolyn , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Thank you. Happy to be here.
S1: Glad to have you here.
S2: And with the rise of self , you know , basically everyone on the planet has a cell phone pretty much. And so everyone in their pocket has access to information 24 hours a day. And not all of it is trustworthy or credible. And there's a growing recognition that people really need to understand the difference or there's just this corrosive effect on democracies globally.
S1: We hear the term fake news a lot.
S2: That's just not true. And sometimes those things , it's inadvertently not true. Like someone accidentally reposted something or sometimes it's inadvertent , but sometimes it's malicious. You know , there's bad actors out there who are trying to subvert various causes or put their own causes forth. I mean , so so it's it's really both things. And that's and when we talk about fake news , that's what we're talking about. Okay.
S1: Okay. And there are actually two bills related to media literacy currently in the works in Sacramento. What can you tell us about AB 787 ? What would that do and where does that legislation stand today ? Sure.
S2: Assembly Bill 787 was sponsored by Assemblyman Jesse Gabriel from Woodland Hills. And that would create that would survey school districts around the state about what their current standards are with media literacy , sort of where we stand. And then it would come up with a model curriculum to put forth statewide. That bill passed the Assembly and is currently in the Senate. Closer to the finish line is Assembly Bill 873 , sponsored by Marc Berman , who you mentioned earlier , and that has passed the legislature and is poised to be signed by the governor soon , hopefully. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And so California did pass optional media literacy guidelines back in 2018.
S2: It didn't require anything , but it did offer resources and sample curriculums and so forth. This goes many , many steps further and would include media literacy in all subjects for all grades , starting kindergarten all the way through 12th grade , and it would be incorporated into the standards , the curriculum standards that the state passes , and it would go into effect this January.
S1:
S2: So it's it's pretty fundamental to democracy. I think everyone would agree democracy really only functions when citizens are well informed.
S1: And how does distrust in the media play into that ? That further complicates things , right ? Right.
S2: Yes. Well , there's been lots of research showing that people don't trust the media as much as they used to. And so even when a story is credible , they might not believe it. And there's been lots of examples of that. I mean , something could be in The New York Times on 60 Minutes , know some of the most well respected media organizations in this country , and still people don't believe it. I mean , look at all the people who don't believe in climate change. Um , so you're right. It's not just fake news. The dangers of fake news. It's this idea that that mainstream so-called mainstream media is not trustworthy. And that's another way to that sort of these bad actors are hoping to subvert the democratic process. I think.
S1: You know , one of other states outside of California done when it comes to media literacy.
S2: Well , there's been a few other states that have really taken the lead on this. I think 18 states overall have have passed legislation promoting media literacy. You know , California is one of them. Only three states that I know of have have started requiring it. That's New Jersey , Texas and Delaware and California would be joining those three if this governor signs this legislation. So that's where we are right now. And those other states all sort of similar to what California is looking at. It's it's media literacy kind of woven into existing curriculum at all grade levels in all subjects.
S1: Um , you know , California has seen cultural divisions in its schools leading to book bans and efforts against ethnic studies and gender studies. I'm curious if you've seen divisions or pushback about this effort to increase media literacy in California schools , too.
S2: I haven't seen any pushback. I think this is one of the rare issues that appears to be nonpartisan. I mean , just the fact that Texas is ahead of California on this issue speaks to that. This is something that Republicans and Democrats recognize is a crucial piece of legislation. So I have not seen any pushback. Where it gets a little bit interesting is that some would like to see media literacy taught as a standalone class in high schools , for example , kind of a journalism , you know , media etiquette , digital citizenship type class , But then other but there is some pushback against that because it would take away , you know , an art class or , you know , another thing that a student might take. I think there's more consensus that it should be taught as something kind of woven into existing curriculum by by teachers who are already in place.
S1:
S2: They are digital natives. They grew up on the Internet. This is something that most kids today have been , you know , familiar with computers and familiar with the Internet since they were toddlers. And so it's very , very important that they that they learn this information. In my own reporting , I've discovered that middle school students seem to be the most receptive and the most open to to learning about how to navigate the online world. High school students are already pretty savvy. So it seems like , you know , elementary school , middle school is really sort of the sweet spot for teaching this stuff , which is interesting to me.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. I'm speaking with Calmatters reporter Carolyn Jones about media literacy.
S2: And more and more students are they're on their phones all the time , pretty much. And social media plays a larger role in the life of adolescents than it used to. And also , as the country becomes more polarized and we're about to enter this divisive election season , I think that the the importance of critical thinking and good media literacy skills is more urgent than ever.
S1: In addition to covering the topic of media literacy here in California , you've also covered the issue in other parts of the world. You did a fellowship in Albania , for example.
S2: Thank you for asking me about that. I did. I went to Albania and I. Preached the gospel of media literacy there. It was interesting because there a new democracy. They were a communist until the 90s and so democracy is still in its infancy there and they became a democracy right around the same time that the Internet came along. And so they have a plethora of fake news websites. There's lots of media outlets , which is wonderful , but a lot of them are not very reliable. And for citizens who don't , who are kind of new to this , they just really don't know how to navigate or a lot of people don't know how to navigate what's real , what's fake. And it's a crisis in places like Albania and other parts of the world. And they realize that and they see it and they understand how urgent it is. And so it was really eye opening to me to go to this country and see how it was prioritized. The government and other NGOs are trying really hard to get this into the schools and make sure students understand it. And teachers are trained and regular people understand the difference between a real news story and a fake news story. And I thought , wow , we need to really be a lot more proactive with this on this in the United States. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And I mean , so the effort right now is really to teach students so the next generation is prepared.
S2: One of them is , you know , check the byline. Is there a byline ? Can you contact the reporter , Check the date on the story ? Is the story ten years old , Check the URL. Sometimes on fake news stories. The URL will be very similar to a news outlet you recognize , but it might have one letter different. Instead of like New York Times , it would be New York Times SEO , for example. So check that check to see if the story is appearing in more than one outlet. You should be able to find. If it's a legitimate news story , it should be covered by a couple different news outlets and check the sources. Sometimes reports will link to original source material in the stories where you can check the facts yourself. So those are simple things that everyone can do to to find out if what they're reading is real or not. Oh , and one more important thing , common sense. If you read a story and it just doesn't seem right to you , it might not be right.
S1: Yeah , I mean , that common sometimes common sense is not so common , but we're working on it , right ? I hope. Yeah. Yeah. Even here in the United States , where democracy has been around for far longer than places like Albania , just last week , 13 presidential libraries , including those of Obama and George W Bush , among others , released a joint statement warning about the dangers facing American democracy today.
S2: I mean , it's very much linked. I mean , when we talk about media literacy , it's not just the ability to to understand if something is fake news or not. It's more it's more understanding how to read the news , how to find good information. If you're interested in a topic where to go to get reliable information about that and then acting on it , and then understanding how these issues are related to the government , you know , the government that you participate in. So it's very much related. It's crucial.
S1: I've been speaking with Carolyn Jones. She is the K through 12 education reporter with Calmatters. Carolyn , thank you so much for your insight and joining us today.
S2: Well , thank you for having me.
S1: Next on Midday Edition , we take a look at how social media's rise has impacted hate and extremism groups.
S4: People are increasingly getting their news from a very splintered landscape and one that is an ecosystem that is often propelled by emotions , stereotyping and lies.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. Welcome back to Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. One recent poll from the Associated Press , York's Center for Public Affairs Research found that just 44% of Americans are highly confident that votes in the coming 2024 presidential election will be counted accurately. It's another warning sign for American democracy , and it comes in the age of social media , where misinformation and disinformation can spread easily , leading to extremism and hate. Joining me to talk more is Brian Levin. He is professor emeritus and researches hate and extremism. Professor , welcome back to Midday Edition.
S4: Thank you so much , Brian.
S1:
S4: The polarization , the tribalism that exists , the type of invective and stereotyping and conspiracism that has become mainstream and the way it's incubated and preserved , ready at a moment's notice online. It's a terrible situation we're in. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And I think one of the things that drives that is media literacy or the lack thereof. The nonprofit media literacy now recently did a survey that showed 62% of adults did not learn about media literacy in high school. How does a lack of media literacy make people vulnerable , you think , to extremism and hate.
S4: A lack of media ? Media literacy is troubling because as long as a purveyor of lies can have the trappings of legitimacy , you know , they have a microphone , they have a studio , they have so many opportunities with regard to the presentational aspects of news that people who don't have a real proper training , not only in media literacy but in critical thinking , can fall prey to the kind of lies that are exploited by charlatans. And we have much of that going on today.
S1: How healthy is our democracy , in your view ? Unhealthy.
S4: And let me say something. Some really interesting things that we found. We found , for instance , hate crimes go up in presidential election years. And that's been happening ever since. Records have been maintained by the FBI since the early 90s. But I think today , what is so problematic , it was a pivotal moment when Kellyanne Conway stated , well , there are alternate facts. No , they're not are not alternate facts. But we have a populace , including a decline in males going to college where people are not equipped with the proper critical thinking skills so that if someone presents themselves , you know , like like a Joe Rogan , for instance , in a manner that's aggressive , yet entertaining , they will be regarded as more credible than , for instance , National Public Radio. But the problem is we are in a siloed nation and people are increasingly getting their news from a very splintered landscape and one that is an ecosystem that is often propelled by emotions , stereotyping and lies.
S1: And we know that , you know , media literacy and social media is an issue. But I mean , even the mistrust of legitimate news sources feeds into that as well.
S4: And today , I think we are facing an existential crisis , particularly the coverage conducted by local news sources , which more and more are under pressure. Reporters are getting laid off. 2000 newspapers have shut down. So the opportunities to have legitimate news sources reach an audience because , A , they're shrinking and , B , there's distrust is incredibly , incredibly concerning for those of us who seek to preserve democracy.
S1:
S4: You know , even today we're seeing , you know , with with the anniversary this week of the nine over 11 attacks , just recycled rumors coming up again and up again. Recently , Tucker Carlson entertained terrible rumors about Obama that were debunked. And it just seems that there's now an archive online that can be opened up any time. And to the extent that influencers now , unlike journalists , don't have to have a record of credibility if their presentation is appetizing , it doesn't matter that they lie because there's no editors there and there's no kind of tradition that we had previous that is being maintained that has become. Something where skepticism. Where skepticism. Now , even when it's not based on facts and carried out to just a disturbing degree , gets anchored in social media because we're so fragmented and we're so polarized and living in a tribalistic society. Look , recent poll showed within the political parties the distrust between them is just through the roof. And that gives an opportunity for liars , charlatans and bigots to exploit because there is no collective set of truly trusted news sources in the way that we had decades ago when there wasn't the competition coming from this fragmented social media landscape that we're in. One last point. You know , one of the things that we're seeing in election times , for instance , is hate crime goes up and goes up significantly more than we have in non-presidential election years. But concomitant with that is this set of events where these epithets and conspiracy theories rise and get a life of their own because they have an incubator which is always available online and the social media companies have to do a better job. When I spoke before the Commission on the State of Hate last month , I talked about how disgraceful it was , the various kinds of hatreds and and just downright bigoted commentary that gets a true reach on social media. And I'm not saying that we need to censor everything , but we do have to create some kind of system where lives don't get to go around the world seven times before the truth can get its boots on and get out of bed. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And so let's talk about some of the tactics here.
S4: We know that prejudice consists of three parts the cognitive , the kind of information that comes in and the emotional response to it , and then the behavior that results from it. And the way that social media is being packaged. It appeals to that gut instinct with with regard to fear and grievance. And recently , Covid has galvanized an array of different groups together in this distrust of anything institutional. And that's why just bear with me give you an example. In the summer of 2020 , we saw a rise , for instance , in the N-word online , but we also saw a rise in Antifa socialists and BLM. And with that , all kinds of rumors , busloads of Antifa are coming to your community to burn it down. And what we saw was June of 2020 was the worst month for anti-black hate crime. But unlike after 911 , where it went down in weeks , these attacks , for instance , against African Americans , went on for months and months and months. And then 2021 , according to the FBI , was a record. And our latest research showed that hate crime , at least in major cities , not San Diego , thank goodness , though , but in many major cities. In the top ten , which had a record , went up again. And I think part of that is fueled by this terrible social media landscape.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. I'm speaking with Professor Emeritus Brian Levin. He is an expert in hate and extremism.
S4: And one of the things that we're seeing is this kind of grievance oriented hatred bubbling over from the traditional categories of race , for instance , to the institutions that hold us together. And in it specifically , we're seeing it also reverberate back to the local level , whereas the insurrection occurred in 2021. Now we're seeing local election officials , local public health officials , local school boards become targeted by extremists. And that is troubling because that is the anchor of civil society. And what else ? Unfortunately , journalism has has been under attack , both literally from people who are attacking journalists , but also because so many of the trusted local news sources are either folding or losing funding.
S1:
S4: But the ones that exist , like we see a lot of neo-Nazi marches coast to coast and and lawn leafleting in addition to what we're seeing online. But here's the thing. When you have , you know , major high transmitters , celebrities , pundits , people running for office , playing fast and loose with facts in a way that decades ago would have would have made them ineligible to run for office. Now , this kind of aggressive lying and disinformation is a way that this kind of malignant cancer is being anchored into the mainstream. So what I'm saying to you is the same kind of lies that used to be segregated into the fringes are now part of the mainstream. And we're also seeing some terrible kinds of hatreds going on , you know , anti-black bigotry. But it's it's presented in the sugarcoated o election denial or critical race theory or attacks on the LGBTQ community enter into the mainstream in a way that we didn't see before. And it's stratified. So , yeah , folks with swastikas are not not accepted into the mainstream , but we see , for instance , mainstream mainstream candidates going on anti-Semitic podcasts or one of the biggest anti-Semites being invited to Mira Lago. So this this is a terrible thing. And because we're so fragmented and tribalistic , we don't have the kind of governing mechanisms where we can call it out in a broad way that we may have. In the past , when you had three trusted news channels.
S1:
S4: I think hate groups are ones that generally would be classified as those that look at now a more narrow type of subset. In other words , those that foment bigotry on the basis of race , religion , sexual orientation , for example. But now we have those that are fomenting aggression against actual institutions , whether it's Congress , the courts or the election process. And by the way , you know , there was a study done by the government before the last election and showed that it was the safest set of election processes that we've had in our history. Yet the trust in that in that institution of election enumeration is declining. So that's a terrible thing.
S1:
S4: But what I'm going to tell you , it's not the groups today that I think pose the biggest risk. Yes. These these kind of folks of all stripes show up at anti LGBTQ protests , for instance. And listen to this. One of the things I think is so terrifying is in our study , which just came out , three of the five biggest increases were against LGBTQ mixed gender nonconforming , which includes drag and transgender. So so we're seeing more specialization even in the way that we hate. But it's now it's now fueled by the mainstream. So when Tucker Carlson , for instance , during a conflictual midterm election year spread , all kinds of invective relating to caravan's anti-Latino hate crimes hit a multi year high. But by the time election came around , anti-Jewish hate crimes peaked for the decade. And we had the Tree of Life Massacre. But the thing that I'm saying is there might be a difference in the in the repackaging , but the kinds of tropes that we have against groups are now extended and tied , like sailboats tied in a harbor , uh , to , to wider grievances where there's a collection of villains which can be spun based. On this emotive appeal to people's fears.
S1: You know , democracy isn't just fragile in the US , is fragile around the globe. So how much of these hate and extremist groups are fueled from overseas ? And by fueled , I mean everything from funding to guns and even disinformation.
S4: We are now seeing it all over what I what I had faced a threat not too long ago. The ringleader was in Eastern Europe , for instance. So we're seeing a transnational populism. And what it does , it ends up having a local flavor. So , you know , the Christchurch massacres were an example of , you know , transnational replacement doctrine , which can be then sculpted to any particular country where the outsider is already defined. But you have a template that is now international and spread. And by the way , remember Prigozhin , who was just killed during various elections , His group , the IRA , it's called , was sending to the United States really interesting , hateful memes and social media posts which looked like they came from the United States , but they were actually manufactured in Russia. And we , by the way , we're seeing this kind of Internet hate in countries like India where Muslims are the target or elsewhere where the Rohingya were the targets. So I'm afraid , unfortunately , that this is something we're going to see more of. And it's transnational because indeed , with the border's borderless Internet , that's a transnational operation as well. And nationalism and populism is also transnational and can easily be sculpted just by changing which group is the target for this kind of invective aggression.
S1: All of that sounds like a risk to national security.
S4: But here's the thing. Groups like are groups like my former organization , Rather , and a variety of academics and others internationally are taking this on. And I'm going to a global conference to eradicate hate in Pittsburgh later in the month , where we now have a collection , you know , kind of almost citizen servants who are now tracking this kind of hatred , this kind of hatred and conspiracism online. But we need greater cooperation from social media companies big time. And some are much worse than others , especially Twitter and Gab , among others.
S1: Anything else you want to say about that ? Because I don't see them moving like they did with Cointelpro.
S4: I don't think that well , what I think is we have a much more diverse response to this. In other words , it's not just the government , but but the government is funding , the federal government is funding. And I hope California does these efforts by academics and and private organizations that also monitor this Well , and collectively , I actually think we're doing a much better job than we were a decade ago. But the problem is , as we expand our our fire trucks and fire hoses , the fire is spreading much more quickly than than I think any of us thought it could.
S1: I've been speaking with Brian Levin , professor emeritus and expert in extremism and hate. Professor , thank you so much for joining us.
S4: Thank you. And thank you for doing your part in promoting civic democracy.
S1: What thoughts do you have about threats to our democracy ? What role do you think media literacy and social media play ? Give us a call at (619) 452-0228. You can leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. We'd love to share your ideas and if you ever miss a show , you can find the Midday Edition podcast on all platforms. I'm Jade Hindman. Thanks for listening.
