S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman here. On today's show , we're talking about some of the mental health challenges people are facing with all of the changes to how our government works and who exactly it works for. This is KPBS Midday Edition , connecting our communities through conversation. It's been nearly one month since President Trump's return to the white House , and in that time , he's pushed the limits of presidential power from clawing back federal funding for things like medical research for women to indiscriminate Ice detentions and also deportations , plus an executive order to end federal DEA programs and a ban on transgender military troops. And these are just a few things people who work in the mental health space say all of the of the change is having a deep impact on our communities here in San Diego. Last week , I spoke with Lizette Ma , a marriage and family therapist in San Diego's South Bay , and Jan Estrada , a local clinical psychologist and associate professor at Alliant International University. Here's that interview. All right. So first , how are you all doing ? Chan , I'll start with you on that one. Sure.
S2: Sure. I mean , I think it's a scary time for a lot of people. And you know , one of the things that I wanted to mention here is that even before this administration returned , a lot of the people that you talked about earlier were already experiencing stressors. And , you know , I identify as a transgender and non-binary person of color. So , you know , firsthand , I think I can I can really sort of empathize with some of the really intense feelings that people are having about this presidential administration. Mhm.
S1: Mhm.
S3: Um , and I think people are struggling to make sense a lot of things and it's just the unknown. Right. We always talk about what's the most stressful things about individuals just , you know , in everyday life. Um , people stress a lot about the unknown. And in this specific time and day , it's a lot of unknowns , not only just for one individual , it's for the whole country. Right ? Whether you are affected individually or not , someone that you know is impacted by it. Um , which is what makes things a little bit harder to swallow , I think.
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S3: You know , changes executive orders. Um , and I do have to say that the first two days after the election , I think I felt at the heaviest , um , I am a Hispanic , third generation Narration Mexican American , and I also treat and serve a lot of the military population. And when they were coming in , I could just feel the heaviness. Right. And it's kind of hard , even though you're trained , you know , to have boundaries and , you know , be there for the patient or the client. It is heavy on you. So what I've decided to do is to focus on one thing at a time. What are the things that are going to affect me directly ? Right. There's a lot of changes with , you know , the military insurances , the education , because I have a grant right now with the with the school districts. So I'm focusing on the things that are going to affect my population that I serve or the practice or the contracts that I have , because it does become overwhelming. And then you feel like you you can't do anything and you're stuck. So in order to prevent that from happening individually to me , to be able to continue to serve the population. So I'm serving I'm focusing on maybe 1 or 2 things at a time , so I don't become overwhelmed. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So given that , what are you noticing from your patients and students in the current political climate.
S3: There's a lot of fear that everything , all the rights that they gained , um , that were going backwards. Um , it kind of they feel defeated. I have a young lady that her parents are really hyper religious and voted for Trump , and she did it. And she said , you know , I don't want to go back home. I feel like they voted against me. And now all these , you know , consequences are going to happen to me. And they don't seem to care. And , you know , they turn and it's like nothing happening. And in her words , she felt she's like , my world is crumbling. She's been engaged. Um , she says , I think I was engaged for too long , and now I don't even know if that's going to be a reality for me. Um , and then she's concerned. Should I get married or not ? Um , the benefits to right with same sex couples. There's been talks about that. So I think it's added it's adding stress to individuals that are already struggling , especially with the population that I serve. And it's making it really hard for them to cope with their everyday life in addition to the new changes.
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S2: I mean , I think the the sort of intensified , uh , messages coming from different places about people not belonging , you know , people not belonging in the military , people not belonging in schools , people not belonging in our country , uh , people not , uh , deserving to use the restroom , uh , that , that they want to use. I think it's a really sort of impactful message because it's coming from so many different places. And that tone has certainly been set by , by our Administration. And , you know , I think people really are experiencing , again , lots of fear and stress related to that. But I also think there's I'm starting to see people withdrawing. You know , that that people feel alone. And I think that has a lot to do with not feeling like they belong. And so , you know , part of what I'm I'm trying to invite , you know , my students , my clients , my my trainees , but also for myself and my own life is that to focus on community and connection ? Uh , when you're when you're feeling a lot of those of fears and feeling alone.
S1: Any other advice for those who are at this moment stressed or anxious , even depressed , with all of these things happening ? Mhm.
S2: Yeah. I think my primary message is to focus on connection and , and that might be connection with yourself at times. You know checking in with yourself to see how you're doing. I think if people are experiencing these feelings it's an appropriate emotional response to what's happening. So I So I really want to normalize that. If people are feeling off or it feels harder to concentrate , you know , those those are appropriate responses to what is happening in the environment around us. And , you know , I think the people that people should and I tell this , I remind myself , you know , is to try to be somewhere in between , not totally checking out , but not totally getting sucked into , let's say , the news feeds or social media. There has to be sort of a healthy space in between , and sometimes people need to step back , and sometimes people will want to be informed about what's happening. So finding that that healthy middle ground , uh , even moment by moment throughout the day. Again , I find myself doing that as well and reminding myself and really trying to focus on like , what's in front of you right now and what is within your control. I think Lisette talked about this earlier. You know , that that so much of what is happening is outside of our control , and yet there are many things that we still can influence , whether it's with our families , whether it's with our places of employment , whether it's with ourselves. So I want to remind people that there is still a lot that we can have an impact on.
S1: You know , since Trump has been in office , it seems like we've been covering an entire 24 hour news cycle every hour , as you both alluded to there.
S3: I think it was very overwhelming , at least for myself. Um , very overwhelming the first few days because it was more like rapid fire changes. Right. And you're kind of freaking out and you're trying to figure out what does it mean in the feeds ? Like even on social media , it's not even like things for you. But since it's all over the place and people that you're interacting with are seeing it there , they're there. My recommendation is doing it in small doses. Make sure that you're looking at , you know , at the feeds or the news or the radio when you're not in a vulnerable state. So if you're already having a tough day , right , or you had a bad session or something like that , don't jump online and go look at all this. Make sure that you're doing it when you're calm. Maybe at the end of the day , maybe at the beginning of the day when you're feeling a little bit more settled and then just in small doses , right. Let's say we we say let's prescribe the symptom. Right. And I just tell my clients , okay , let's prescribe how much time you're going to spend on this so you don't go into a little rabbit hole. So ten , 20 minutes 30 minutes okay. And that's going to be enough for the day. You get your , you know , you're up to date to what's going on. And then we do something else to kind of ground you distract you. And then if you have to do it again the next day , go ahead. But I think this has to be in small portions. Right.
S1: Right. Well , and you know , Jan , as you mentioned in Lizette , you mentioned to creating connections , building community. That's important in times like this. Social media is one way that people do that. So , Jan , how do you propose creating that balance. Mhm.
S2: Yeah that's a great question Jade I think that people might want to , you know , every time that we want to engage with the news cycle or social media , I think it's helpful to think about why we're doing it in that moment. So I can list a few different reasons why I might do it throughout the day. One of them might be because I'm bored. You know , it's sort of a default thing that I might do to check my phone , and that might be a less helpful reason to engage with the sort of flurry of these different hate messages that we're getting. But there will be times throughout the day for me , it's usually towards the end of my day where I kind of want to catch up and I just want to see , okay , what were the big things that happened during the day that I should know about ? That probably makes more sense for me to engage at that time. You know , it's even in sharing news. You know , sometimes we share news with our , our friends or our family members. I think it's helpful to think about , like , what's the purpose of me doing that right now ? And sometimes it is really helpful to say , can you believe that this happened ? And to have people in our lives who share a similar mindset or value set to say , yeah , I can't believe that this happened. But as Lisette said , you know , if you're in a really vulnerable spot or you're a particularly stressful in a particular stressful situation , it might not be the time to send a news article to your family member with whom you're having a conflict around politics.
S1: Coming up , we'll talk about ways to practice mental wellbeing in stressful times.
S2: What really fuels us , what really drives us to engage with the things that give us purpose and meaning , especially when we're facing lots of different kinds of uncertainty. And that's such a subjective answer.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We're continuing the conversation with marriage and family therapist Lizette Ma and clinical psychologist and professor Jan Estrellita. We're talking about the impact the Trump administration's policies are having on communities across San Diego , and their best practices on how to cope with all this change. President Trump has taken multiple actions against the LGBTQ plus community , including pushing for a ban on transgender soldiers serving in the military. So I asked Jan what they are hearing from their patients , many of whom are members of that community.
S2: Well , I think that a lot of the people that I work with are really thinking about the sort of anti-trans sentiment that's happening sort of across the board , not just in the military. And I and I think that's a , you know , sort of the the military is sort of one example of where people are feeling excluded , but it really is happening across so many different , um , areas of life right now sports , bathroom use , etc.. And so I think more than anything , I think trans people are really just trying to live their lives. You know , I think that , uh , and really trying to think about how to keep themselves safe , which makes sense And , you know , I think people that I work with are thinking about how to keep themselves safe on a sort of quote unquote micro scale , you know , daily lived experience. But now , in addition , are thinking about what it means for them that these structural policies are being put in place. And so , really , again , I think a lot of trans people are struggling with having to navigate this in the different levels of their life. Mhm.
S1: Mhm.
S3: Um , I had this heartbreaking session with one of my clients who he is a US citizen , and his parents are not. And he said one of the parents has cancer and the other one , um , retired and he's injured. He he can't walk. And he told me my parents were getting ready to move back because they don't want to get detained and be in a detention center with , you know , cancer and all these injuries and things that they're that they're struggling with their health. So they're going to leave on their own and they're packing up to leave that weekend. And this is all they known. They migrated over here. This is their home. They have no one over there. Um , I still get emotional thinking about it. Um , so it's it's creating a lot of , I think , emotional distress and then trauma that you're , you're supposed to go back. But a lot of people don't identify that as their home. They identify the US as their home. And they're they're being misplaced. And it's , it's it's very heartbreaking. Um , you know , I have friends that the parents have a green card. Um , and they're like , I don't know if my dad's going to be able to stay here or renew their green card. And there's stress about that. And , uh , there's this stressor of Financial , uh , financial stress. Because if they want to do all this , they have to , you know , contact an attorney or get the paperwork going. And that all costs money. It takes you away from work. Uh , so it's not only that the financial stress is the emotional stress , some trauma and displacement for a lot of individuals. And I think because we're so close to the border , I think we see a lot of those individuals who are used to going back and forth or individuals that , you know , crossed and stayed here. A lot of local workers , I think it's going to be a bigger problem once we start seeing action. I think this is the tip of the iceberg , but it's going to create a lot of significant trauma in my opinion. Mm.
S1: Mm. And Jan , another Trump target has been DEA programs. Mhm. I know that extends far beyond the military. Mhm. But what have you been seeing in terms of how that's the impact that that's been having.
S2: I mean I think the , the impact in the field of psychology has been notable. And I think the American Psychological Association has , has written about this already , that people's research funding has been has been stopped or people have been prevented from conducting research that they thought they were going to be able to , uh , to implement. Uh , there's a lot of uncertainty about funding for different programs with federal funding. And so even if their funding is is sort of continuing now , they're uncertain about whether or not that's going to change in the foreseeable future. I think there are people whose programs I've heard in the at the VA that are die related , that have had to been , um , closed down really abruptly. I mean , I think there's there's a very felt , uh , impact of the administration's , uh , executive orders around Dei that , you know , I think our are probably meant to have a shock value. And I think that , you know , in our heads we might know that that's happening , but the emotional impact is , is is real and and the impact I think we're probably going to see for years to come , because it's affecting all of these different areas that are have been funded historically that will play out over time , unfortunately.
S1:
S2: So if , for example , if you had a job yesterday but don't have a job today , of course , you know , that's an intense experience. But I think the , the fact that we are , even if that's not happening directly to us , I think the idea that for those of us for whom Dei issues are of central importance. It's also about the meaning behind the the action , and I think that is also very felt. And again , I sort of going back to this bigger message of so many people experiencing who have already experienced different kinds of oppression , being told very explicitly all of the different ways that we don't belong. I think that that meaning is , is being felt loud and clear.
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S3: Um , for a lot of the members who have been serving , um , because a lot of them , that's their identity. Um , I think that's why we have those new programs of transitioning out of the military , because as individuals identify with being military members , they identify as being active duty , and they do this for a very long time. And you know , they're trained and they're mentality. And you can always tell who was the active duty who had been in the military. And not because there's , you know , traits that they show. Um , so you're basically ripping that away from them. And in addition , even though it was there before , there is still some stigma around it in the military. We see active duty military members and I , you know , there's clients that are still struggling with , you know , coming out because it's it's not a positive experience as is. And you're going to add this to it or revoking it or removing it. I think it's going to add obviously distress , trauma displacement. I think they're going to go back. It's already hard enough for individuals to come out in previous years. I think it's going to make it ten times harder for them to evaluate coming out and being themselves and being oppressed and depressed and really not knowing where they belong. And how do they identify because they're not allowed to. But again , I think it's going to be a massive , massive impact.
S1: Even for those not being directly impacted by some of these policies and executive orders. You know , just hearing the constant stories of what may be coming around the corner can itself be a source of stress. So I'm curious if you may have some general tips on how to practice mental well-being in times of increased stress like this. Jan , I'll start with you on that one. Sure.
S2: Sure. You know , again , I want to normalize that. Uh , you know , to to have that experience of even the sort of anticipatory fear of what might happen is understandable right now. So I think , you know , let's not expect ourselves to be functioning as if that wasn't happening. And I think that's probably one a first step that might be helpful for people is these are , again , appropriate responses. I think one of the ways that we haven't talked about yet is for people to think about what really fuels us , what really drives us to engage with the things that give us purpose and meaning , especially when we're facing lots of different kinds of uncertainty. And that's such a subjective answer. You know what ? What is important to me that helps give my life meaning and purpose. What can I do that's reflective of that in this moment ? You know , so for me , I can easily think about , you know , when my kids get home from school , a lot of times I'll be working. But maybe today I'm going to put my email away , maybe put my phone away and just hang out with my kids , even for , you know , 15 minutes , because that is a reminder of , of of what's real and true to me and what's important for whatever I choose to do moving forward. Lisette.
S1: Lisette.
S3: That was beautifully said. I agree , I a ton of times when I'm treating people , I tell them , you know , when you react and have an impulse , you're losing control , right ? Because you're reacting in a negative way or you stop doing things. And I've been telling people , and I think it's important that we know don't let this take control over. Right. Still be your authentic self. Do whatever you can that's in your power to empower what you believe in and what you love and what you're doing. Don't ignore it. I think it's important that we label it. I focus a lot on like labeling emotions. Sometimes we , you know , we feel this very intense emotions and we don't know what it is. And we feel overwhelmed because of the emotion. Let's label them. I'm upset. I'm frustrated. It's not fair. You know , you can use other not so nice words , but I think labeling it and identifying that that's how you're feeling. And it's okay. Right. And now what are we going to do about that. And making some time for yourself and continue to move forward with the things that you believe in and passionate about. Because even though you cannot change the world , right ? You can change that one little aspect and you're you're setting something positive out there. And that positivity , I guarantee you , is going to affect somebody. Somebody else is going to see you that do that one positive thing that you're passionate about. It's going to make that other person feel better. And right now we need that. Right now we need that because the administration , you know , is putting all these things out there that are very devastating and life changing and life altering , and if you can put something out there that's going to make somebody happy , like , you know , a little flag , a sticker or just , you know , a post , whatever it is , I think it's important because right now I think we need it the most more than we ever have , to be honest.
S1:
S3: So if you're having difficulty sleeping , um , if you are having a hard time staying focused. Um , if you're having racing thoughts , intrusive thoughts. If you feel like your mood or your energy has been changing. If you were waking up every day being frustrated and angry. And you can , you know , ground yourself in or adjust yourself. I think it's time to maybe reach out and get an evaluation to see if you're doing okay. But I want to see the number one flag for me would be lack of sleep or , uh , sleep cycle reversals. Uh , that your sleep cycle has been reversed. Uh , sleep hygiene is super important. Patterns of eating when people get depressed. Um , sometimes they don't eat as much. Or sometimes people find food as comfort , so they increase the amount of food. So I would say any drastic change that you notice and you cannot reset the routine that you were doing on your own. I suggest that you reach out for help. Jan.
S1: Jan.
S2: I agree with , uh , with what Lizette said. Um , I think I would add that , you know , most of us know what our baseline functioning is. And I think that if we notice that we are sort of deviating from that baseline for , you know , a prolonged period of time , maybe 2 or 3 weeks , maybe a month. Uh , and the other sort of , uh , defining criteria for me would be , have you done everything that you know , to do to help yourself , uh , be better or feel better ? And it just isn't working. Uh , you know , maybe you've tried reaching out to your friends , maybe exercise. Uh , and when those things stop working for a prolonged period of time , uh , then I think it's probably a good idea to , uh , to seek that external support from a mental health professional. Uh , because , again , you know , every person is going to need that at some point in their lives. And , uh , being aware of it and knowing when we really have tried everything that we know to do , uh , that it's a good idea to seek out that external support.
S1: That was my conversation with Lizette Mar , a marriage and family therapist serving San Diego's South Bay. And Jan Estrada , a clinical psychologist in San Diego and associate professor with Alliant International University. If you're experiencing a mental or behavioral health emergency , the number to call for help and resources is 988. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
