S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. The election is about a week away , so how do you talk politics with those you don't agree with ? Today we'll hear some advice on where to start. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired and make you think. So what's the first step when engaging in political conversations ? When we have the.
S2: Opportunity to have an actual conversation with another human being , debate is not a very good model for how we approach. That.
S1: That. Then we'll hear from a comic book artist. On his effort to raise civic awareness among youth with his art , plus the connection between voting and health in the South Bay. That's ahead on Midday Edition. In the lead up to the 2024 general election. Navigating political differences with family and friends is a real challenge. We asked our listeners about this. Some said it's an issue of morality. Others say they avoid talking about politics altogether. So how do political differences shape our relationships with friends , family and neighbors ? Joining me now is Tanya Israel. She's professor of counseling psychology at UC Santa Barbara and author of the book Facing the Fracture How to Navigate the Challenges of Living in a Divided Nation. Tania , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Thanks so much , Jade. I'm happy to be here.
S1: Glad to have you. So your book , Facing the Fracture , offers guidance to foster resilience during polarizing times.
S2: And in addition to feeling conflict with family and friends. People are really struggling with the news that they're consuming the social media that they are interacting with , and even just the cognitive biases that we have that skew our perceptions of people on the other side. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , let me ask you this. You know , some people feel the best course of action is to really avoid talking to the other side. I want to read off some comments from our listeners here. One is from Sherry. She says there's no point as nothing to gain , and family relationships are more important than politics , sad to say , because important issues are left hanging or swept under the carpet. And another listener , Janet , said those friends that I know have different political beliefs I don't talk politics with. So , you know , what do you think of that strategy ? Don't talk about politics.
S2: You know , it's not a bad strategy in some situations. Um , because the talking about politics , you know , when I ask people , why is it that you're interested in engaging with somebody who has different political views ? There's for reasons that I hear primarily , some people want to maintain a relationship with somebody , but they're having trouble doing that because of political differences. Some people want to persuade or convince someone. Some want to find common ground or heal the divide. And some people say , I simply cannot fathom how people can think or act or vote as they do , and they're looking for some insight will , no matter which of those things you want to accomplish , the best way of doing that is to create a warm and respectful relationship where you're trying to understand the other person. So often we think that what we're supposed to be doing when we're having these discussions is we're supposed to be laying out facts and figures and persuasive arguments like we're on a stage in a debate , but really , when we're in a human relationship , the best thing that we can do is to strengthen that relationship. And sometimes that's going to mean talking about politics in such a way that we're listening and really cultivating understanding. And sometimes that's going to be saying , you know , politics isn't the thing that we need to discuss. We have other things in our relationship. And really leaning into that.
S1: And here in San Diego , there's been a shift in voter registration. Over the past 20 years or so , we've gone from reliably red to lightly blue. But for California , we're still pretty red , especially in East County. So how do these political silos happen between communities.
S2: Within whatever community that we're in ? It's never 100% red or blue. In fact , when we look at the data , we know that there are people who are more extremely on the left and more extremely on the right. And then there's more traditional Democrats and Republicans. Most people are actually in what we call the exhausted majority , and they're not on one side or the other. They sometimes have a mix of different views , and they are exhausted because they're so tired of the vitriol coming from either side. And the thing that I find most concerning is that they're actually disengaging from our democracy because they're so tired of that vitriol , so they're not voting and and they're not wanting to engage in conversations about issues and things. So when you talk about sort of a community and , and what it looks like politically in any community , there's going to be a range of views and values and voting behavior. But depending on sort of , you know , is it is it largely red ? Is it largely blue , then they're going to be different people who are going to feel maybe , um , Disenfranchised or on the outside of the mainstream.
S1: And also facets of a community's identity can dramatically influence politics. I think one of our listeners said that in a military town of San Diego , she's not anxious to profess her identity as a liberal. Um , so how do certain industries in a specific area , like San Diego's military community , influence the local culture around politics ? Sure.
S2: Well , there are things that we associate with being more on the left or more on the right. And some people think about the military , you know , more on the right. But certainly there are people in the military who have quite a range of different views. And , uh , in in many ways , you know , we all rely on the military in terms of , you know , protecting our country and our values. So but somebody might feel like having a large military culture doesn't feel like a place where they belong. And I think this is the this is the important piece , which is that we're all looking for a sense of belonging somewhere , that we can feel like we're at home. And there are so many different cultures in the United States. But that not only has to do with different ethnic cultures or , you know , depending on how people's families and people came to be on this land. But it also has to do with different cultures in terms of , you know , what kind of economies people are involved in , if they're more rural , more involved in farming communities , if they're more urban , if they're in financial interests , if they are more related to higher education , that's a certain kind of culture. So and the military is a certain kind of culture. So depending on what kinds of cultures feel most comfortable for us and most familiar , we might feel like we don't really belong as much in some other settings.
S1: And on that , I'm also thinking about San Diego's proximity to the border when it comes to policy debates around immigration.
S2: Certainly , San Diego's proximity to the border means that probably people do have a little bit more personal connection to what's going on with with immigration and the border. That might mean that there's perhaps even more complex and nuanced views of it , because I would say that people who are making their opinions based on what they're consuming from the media or what they're hearing from political leaders might have , you know , a take on it , might even have a strong opinion about it. But if they don't have a closer relationship to it , it might be lacking some of the nuance and complexity that people really closer to the situation might have had some experience with.
S1:
S2: You know , people have said to me , well , don't you think that the younger generation really is better at this and is better at coming together ? And but then I hear from people in the older generation , well , I remember when we used to be able to talk about politics and we could still be friends with each other. So there's there's different things that influence. Certainly social media has been an influence on how people think about and talk about politics , because social media really presents people in these very one dimensional and more extreme ways. And actually the people who post about politics on social media just are dispositional , angrier people than , than others. And so , so it really skews our perceptions about people on the left and the right. So the less we are interacting with real human beings and instead interacting with their social media accounts , the more that we're going to be responding to people based on narrow stereotypes that we have of them.
S1: In the current political landscape.
S2: You know , in a debate , we never expect that the other team is going to hear what we have to say and then go , oh , oh , I never thought about it that way. And then they'll come over to our side of the podium and be on our team with us. That's not something we ever expect , because in a debate , we are actually trying to influence an outside observer , a judge or the audience or the voters. So when we have the opportunity to have an actual conversation with another human being , debate is not a very good model for how we approach that. Really , a dialogue based on respect and caring and curiosity is going to be the best way for us to accomplish any goals that we have as as a friend , as a family member , or as an advocate for an issue.
S1: Our human rights issues. debatable or something to have an opinion about.
S2: I think when I confront somebody or when I , um , uh , have an opportunity to have a conversation with someone who has a very different take on something that I think is this is obvious. This is an inalienable right. This is , you know , a human rights issue. I'm actually curious to know how they're thinking about it. So rather than arguing it with them and saying , no , this is you know , this is not debatable. This is a human rights issue. What is a what a better approach would be is for me to say , tell me how you came to view things in that way , and what meaning does that have for you ? And not asking , you know , where did you get that information or not challenging them in that way , but really having more of an approach of curiosity. That's what's going to get us to any place of insight , agreement or persuasion.
S1:
S2: But it turns out that facts aren't even what persuades people. That's that's not what's convincing. Stories are actually much better to share with people when we're trying to persuade them in any way. So I actually think we should set facts aside and think more in terms of function. What's the function of this belief for somebody , you know , finding out more like , how did you come to see things this way ? Or what is it that draws you to this belief or this , you know , community of people who see things in this same way and that is actually going to help us to move to a different place , um , in our relationship or in , in our thinking or their thinking much more so than arguing about facts.
S1: In politics can be deeply personal. Some folks will say it's a privileged position to be able to disregard politics or to call yourself apolitical.
S2: And the person who has less privilege is going to benefit more from being heard and sharing their story and having that reflected back to them. One of the challenges that we face in an intersectional world and as intersectional people , is that it's not always clear who has the most privilege in any particular situation. Um , I am a biracial , Asian American , bisexual , Jewish Buddhist woman. I have a lot of ways that I might have less privilege than somebody else. And at the same time , I am a relatively light skinned , currently able bodied , cisgender US born citizen who was raised with economic and educational advantages. So there are many situations where I'm going to have more privilege than somebody and else in a situation. So some of the the privilege peace depends on what is the issue that we're talking about. How does it relate to the various constellation of identities that we have ? I think more than anything , when we're thinking about whether or not to have a conversation because people say , you know , do I really need to talk to somebody who doesn't even think I should exist or who has so much more privilege than I do ? And I say , no , you never have to have that conversation. What is most empowering to us is to have the skills to be able to have the conversation , and to have the skills to remove ourselves from a conversation when we choose not to , and then to also have the skills to decide which of those is best going to help us to achieve our goals in that situation. And so if we only know how to remove ourselves from a situation and don't also know how to be in it , if we want to , then we actually are. We have no choice , then it's actually a disempowering position to be in.
S1:
S2: So if we recognize that that kicks us into this like fight or flight mode. And that's what would help us to get out of a dangerous situation. I always think about , well , is this a dangerous situation ? Like I'm feeling my heart beating faster , my muscles are tense , my breathing is shallow. But am I actually being confronted with a danger here ? And typically I think , you know , when I assess it , I say , know what I'm being exposed to here is somebody who disagrees with me , possibly in a loud voice , and I think I can handle that. So assessing the situation to know am I unsafe or do I feel a sense of safety , um , that's not actually related to the the actual physical danger that I'm in. If we want to get out of it , then the thing that we can do is to , you know , appreciate it , say , you know , thank you. I appreciate that we had a chance to talk about this. And , you know , I maybe we can talk about it later , but I think I'm going to need to be done with this for now , or find whatever words really work for you. The other thing I'll say , though , is that if we recognize that , we feel that sense of threat , but it's not actually a dangerous situation. What might be better for us in terms of building resilience is to find a way to calm our bodies so that we can be a little bit more grounded in making that decision. So we might take some deep breaths. We can even touch our own hand to physically ground us. And that's going to help us to make that decision out of a clearer mind , rather than out of feeling that fight or flight response.
S1: Well , I know you're involved in a coalition of bridging groups meant to foster better dialogue.
S2: And I'm glad you asked about it , because truly , many people have never heard of it , because it's not being covered by the media nearly to the extent that I think it should. But knowing about those organizations and knowing that there are all of these Americans who are bringing their innovation and their dedication to connecting with people across the divide , to helping people to reduce their prejudices toward people on the other side of the aisle. That is so encouraging to me. It gives me faith in the future of our country and in other Americans. And I think that that kind of hope and optimism is sorely needed right now. Right.
S1: And when someone has a personal tied to an issue , they're most likely more invested in it. How can we honor lived experiences in the midst of healthy dialogue.
S2: I think that everybody's lived experiences are so crucial to center in dialogue , because sharing stories is always going to be a better way of connecting with somebody than sharing stats and slogans and arguments with them. So to the extent that we can share our stories , that we can think about , how is it that we got to the viewpoint that we have that is not only going to be a more effective conversation , but it's also a richer one and a more interesting one for us to have. So often we are just sort of spouting the the latest , uh , you know , op ed that we saw or what we , uh , heard in a soundbite from a candidate. But having these richer conversations can be so beneficial not only with people who disagree with us , but even with people on our own side.
S1: I've been speaking with Tanya Israel. She is professor of Counseling Psychology at UC Santa Barbara and author of the book Facing the Fracture How to Navigate the Challenges of Living in a Divided Nation. Tanya , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you so much , Jade. It's been great to talk with you.
S1: Coming up , a local comic book artist and educator is teaching you how to talk about politics to reach understanding through his art.
S3: I wanted to make the point that ordinary people , by simply participating in this incredibly important process , that that act is heroic.
S1: Hear more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We've been talking about how to navigate conversations during the election season , even with differences. We now turn to a local artist who aims to bring down barriers to those conversations through an interactive comic book titled We the People Sing Our Song. Neil Kendricks is a San Diego based artist , writer and educator. Neil , welcome to Midday Edition.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S1: So glad to have you on your project. We the People Sing our song uses anecdotal stories to increase civic engagement in some of San Diego's most diverse communities.
S3: A number of years ago , I had a show at the Oceanside Museum of Art where I started working this way of doing , uh , interdisciplinary art projects that involved both drawing and an audio element. And I collaborate with my good friend , composer and musician Mike Mayer , who's based on the East Coast. What I do with my projects is that , uh , in that first , uh , exhibition , I had written a series of short stories , and I ended up recording myself reading the stories. I gave the recordings to Mike , and then Mike created a soundscape for each of the stories. And when the exhibition was installed at the Oceanside Museum of Art , uh , one of the pieces didn't have audio , and it was a piece called MLK Takes a Knee and then in parentheses , Patriot. And it was a portrait of Doctor Martin Luther King taking a knee , and it was superimposed over the Declaration of Independence. And then it occurred to me , it would be really interesting to have an audio where we hear people reading either the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution , and to mix the voices so you wouldn't know who was who. And it would be a kind of audio analog to the idea of the melting pot. And so from that came the idea for We the People sing our song. Yeah.
S1: I mean , and it's really amazing that you , you had this idea for an interactive comic book , but also to use that as a vehicle to bring down some of these barriers and make these conversations easier for people. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. I mean , one of the things I set out to do with this was that it was going to be a project that would hopefully not be through a partisan lens , but that would speak to the larger issues at stake , like , how do we have a moral responsibility to each other to vote , to participate in this process ? The American experiment is dependent on it. And I wanted to have a way that that was accessible. And I think comics are incredibly accessible to people by speaking to the larger issues. Right. What does it mean to be part of this process ? My earlier question that was asked of all the participants of do we have a moral responsibility to our fellow Americans to vote ? These are things that are not going to expire with this current election cycle. And so I wanted it that the book , the comic , would have a longer shelf life and that it would be something that could speak to readers beyond 2024. Yeah.
S1:
S3: So the first person I interviewed was my niece , Ashley , and she turned 18. And this is going to be her first election that she gets to participate. And I really wanted to talk to first time voters. Then I reached out to other artists that I knew to see if they had anyone that they knew who might be a first time voter. I really wanted to make sure that I spoke to people who were naturalized citizens. So I ended up speaking to two , uh , two folks through the Alliance of San Diego who connected me to one person who was a recently naturalized American. And so , through this sort of roundabout way , I cast these folks as characters in the book. Real life characters , right , are the intent of this is that I wanted to make the point that ordinary people , by simply participating in this incredibly important process , that that act is heroic and that we all have skin in the game in terms of the democracy that we hopefully cherish in the wake of the failed January 6th insurrection , I think we can't take our democracy for granted. We have to preserve. It's something that we need to be able to have conversations about and be able to debate.
S1:
S3: One of the people that I interviewed was Rita montejo at the time. When I interviewed her , she was 92. She's still around and I'm looking forward to seeing how she votes. And she told stories about the first time that she voted , which was back when Eisenhower was running for president. And she also talked about the idea of poll taxes. Now , some of this didn't make it into the book , but I found that these personal stories , like Rita's , were really interesting because it tells us so much about how how people view elections has changed. The process has changed with technology , with the changing culture and so forth. You know , my niece is a very , very dear to me. So it was wonderful to have this healthy discussion about what she planned to do , how she saw voting for the first time. And I kind of wish that I had had that conversation with someone when I had turned 18 or was about to turn 18 to have that that kind of discussion about how important it is. One of the things that came out of the discussions with with Ashley was that , you know , high school students , when they're in seniors , many high schools , hopefully most , I hope , have civic classes where they talk about these issues. And I feel like that should be a requirement. I wish that was a requirement at the university. I wish that was a requirement of community colleges , and.
S1: I want to talk more about that , because you were just at Crawford High School helping students make their own projects.
S3: So , um , this was recent. I made a presentation and just spoke from my heart about what what the project meant to me. And then it was an opportunity for the students to engage in interviewing each other. So I had them kind of do a version of an interview without me coaching them , uh , where they would just they had to do it in front of their peers , and they were a bit nervous. And I found it that many of them were. They had prepared answers that were on their phones after they went through that. And then I asked them , why don't you just put your notes away and just talk to each other , have a conversation ? And the second round of the interview was so much more interesting because they had let their guard down , even though they were on stage with their peers. Watching them go through this process , they opened up and they ended up giving , I think , much more candid and interesting and engaging responses to the questions.
S1:
S3: But when I got there and I and I stood on stage and I saw this small sea of young faces watching me from the auditorium seats , and they were so diverse , people from everywhere. And it really made me feel kind of wonderful inside that this was a picture of what America is. People from all different races , backgrounds. And so this was the perfect group to talk about what we , the people sing our song , what my project was about. And it kind of , in a sense passed a baton to them to do their own version of it. So they broke into small groups and their instructors were their. My friend and colleague Brian Black , he teaches at Crawford High , so he had his students there , and they're going to be doing portraits of each other. And I think the important part of this , the takeaway is to get the students to learn to talk to one another , to be able to have discussions and , um , and , and that those discussions might be sometimes difficult.
S1: That's great , because , you know , I guess working with that group of students , working with high schoolers , I mean , it is a perfect time to teach them those skill sets to have difficult conversations and to to be able to pull from someone else's perspective , which is something it seems adults are having a tough time doing right now.
S3: As fellow Americans , I don't know how we restore that. That's something that I think , you know , we really have to work on as a nation and as individuals. Uh , I think again , it starts with how you talk to one another. I have I have friends who happen to be conservative and who I grew up with. I'm not conservative. I don't particularly like labels. I think that if once you get to meet people , as one of the candidates has mentioned , uh , are the things that we have in common , uh , greatly outweigh our differences ? I happen to believe that. I think in all of our lives , we have people that we have very different opinions of , or our opinions clash who we still respect and care about. So maybe that's the place to start. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S3: It's not a shared reality at this point , you know , because some candidates will give out outright lies and some people will just accept it. And if we don't have a shared foundation of how we see things. Then the conversations become very difficult. I think what we have to do is get to a place where we can agree on certain facts and , and that comes with critical thinking and which then again circles back to schools. Right. And education. And I think it's important that regardless of what age you are , that you develop critical a set of critical thinking skills , that you're able to kind of tell the difference between misinformation and something that's factual. And I think there's been a real breakdown of that.
S1:
S3: Good old fashioned lie. Right. A good old fashioned lie , you know , again , you know , it comes down to being able to filter the information and having reliable sources of news. The media is one of the watchdogs of our democracy. And so when we have folks demonizing media now , I'm not saying that all media is completely unbiased. There's definitely media that is , uh , takes on a more advocacy role. But by and large , most media , I think mainstream media does try to give us , uh , the facts. Most people are getting their news from Facebook and Twitter and all these sort of online sources , and they're living in their silos. And this is something that came up in some of the anecdotal stories where we , the people sing our song is the fact that so many people live in a silo where they only speak to people who already agree with them. I don't think that's necessarily a healthy thing.
S1:
S3: Um , again , it comes back to being respectful of others to try to develop a healthy , rigorous argument about what you believe and be open to to listening to folks on the other side. But within reason , I think , because if someone is demonizing someone else or and that it could potentially lead to violence , then , you know , then you might have to find another tactic. You know , being a participant , casting your vote , making sure that you find your voice and , uh , and become educated in the issues , um , not just vote because you belong to a particular political party. Do the research.
S1: Well , and to your point , that's exactly why we have our own voter hub here at KPBS. You can find it at kpbs.org/voter hub. And there you can get informed on everything that is on your ballot. I've been speaking with Neil Kendricks , a San Diego based artist , writer , educator and the creator of We the People. Sing our song , Neil , thank you so much for joining us.
S3: Oh , thank you for having me.
S1: Still ahead , the connection between voting and health in the South Bay.
S4: Ultimately , voting is not just a civic duty , but it's our way to protect our health.
S1: Midday edition is back after the break. You're listening to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. The medical community sees voting as a social determinants of health. It's also considered a public health issue , so health care providers are taking it upon themselves to get out the vote. San Isidro Health is doing that work in the South Bay. Joining me now to discuss those efforts is Alejandra Perez. She's community relations director for San Isidro Health. Alejandra , welcome.
S4: Thank you so much. Jade. Pleasure. Yeah.
S1: Well , okay , so you all are working on a campaign called My Vote , My Health.
S4: So ultimate is a sister community health center located in Los Angeles. And it's intended and designed to mobilize community health center staff , patients , and the communities we serve throughout California to address the social and political determinants of health. We understand that by educating our community health care providers , we're looking to increase civic participation and empower some of the most underserved and under-resourced communities in California. And I'm happy to share that. Since 2020 , Sunnyside Little Health has proudly participated in the My Vote , My Health initiative as one of the three pilot health centers in California.
S1:
S4: So just the way we encourage our communities and families to get the flu vaccine to stay healthy , we also promote voting to help keep our communities strong and healthy. And so we know that research shows that communities that vote are generally healthier because their needs are addressed through the policies that elected officials implement. So when we vote , we can support initiatives that directly impact our health and the quality of life of our communities. So we understand that by participating in elections and by voting , we help create a healthier future for ourselves and our families while really tackling issues that contribute to health disparities. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Can you give me any specific examples of health disparities linked directly to policy.
S4: When we're talking about access to green spaces , walkable streets , even the quality of the air we breathe when more individuals , particularly from historically marginalized groups , participate in elections , we often see a shift towards health policies that address these specific needs , though ultimately , civic engagement leads to healthier communities. Um , some components of that that we really see through our center health center here at Sunnyside Health is when we have our patients coming in with chronic illnesses. And if you have a doctor that is asking one of their patients to get a little bit more exercise by if that community member and that patient lived in a community where they don't have these walkable streets and green spaces and or feel safe in their own community , that can really impede the way that they can really do something to better their health. Yeah.
S2: Yeah.
S1:
S4: And we understand that by educating our patients on how voting impacts health care policies and community resources that our communities rely on , our health care team can really empower them to take action. So this can be as simple as discussing upcoming election dates during our appointments , or sharing information about voter registration and resources. Back in 2020 , Jade. When we started doing the My Vote My Health campaign , we were able to see a 13% voter turnout amongst low propensity voters in our South Bay communities. And when those community members were asked why they turned out to vote that election cycle , the answer was simple. They said it was because Sunnyside Health told me , too.
S1: Well , let me ask you this. You know , the high cost of living in our region creates numerous daily challenges. For example , less than half of people facing housing insecurity are voting regularly. And that's according to the California Health Interview Survey.
S4: Oftentimes , the financial stress may lead to people prioritizing immediate needs over civic duties. They face daily challenges such as long work hours , childcare responsibilities , and other commitments that can create obstacles that prevent individuals from voting. So we recognize that these barriers are present , and we really want to ensure that we're working with our community and our patients to provide solutions that make voting more accessible.
S1: Now for citizens who live in Tijuana and work in San Diego.
S4: This cross-border living situation presents specific barriers to vote to voting. Oftentimes , some of our staff members may face confusion regarding their voting rights and options , particularly when it comes to receiving their ballots due to a lack of voter education resources , some individuals may not know that they can have their ballots mailed to preferred addresses , such as P.O. boxes , or that they can vote in person at designated vote centers as well. So this knowledge gap can lead to missed opportunities to participate in the elections. And so that is why we're here. I'm really pushing for the campaign of my vote my health to address these issues.
S1: And lastly , you know , a big part of this voting campaign has to do with trust. Community groups like San Isidro Health lean into the idea that trusted community messengers are needed to spread civic awareness.
S4: And when you have an organization such as Sunnyside Health , who is a trusted partner and a trusted messenger for a lot of our communities , a lot of our individuals , a lot of the patients may have established care with us over decades and years. And so they really look to their providers and their health care providers in general as friends. So when you have someone who is looking out for your best interests when it comes to health. You know that when they are asking you to vote or update your voter registration , that ultimately they are looking to ensure that they're establishing a long term solution to ensure that the resources to maintain a healthy and fruitful life for all individuals in our community can happen by voting.
S1: I've been speaking with Alejandro Perez , community relations director for San Isidro Health. Alejandro , thank you so much.
S4: Jade , thank you so much.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose. Everyone.
