S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. For today's arts and culture show , we celebrate 50 years of Dungeons and Dragons. Plus , the San Diego Asian Film Fest launches today. Then a conversation with a Pulitzer Prize winning author. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and engaged. A dive into one of the world's most popular tabletop role playing games.
S2: The only limit is what you can come up with in your imagination , which is kind of cool and unique. No other game has that.
S1: Then the author of The Sympathizer talks about his latest work and a preview of the Asian Film Festival that's ahead on Midday Edition. I've. Dungeons and Dragons turns 50 this year , and for the uninitiated , it is one of the most popular fantasy tabletop role playing games in the world. So we're highlighting one San Diego brewery that has become a hub for all things D&D , nerd culture , and , of course , beer. I'm here with Ryan Sather , co-owner of Battlemage Brewing Company in Vista. Ryan , welcome. Howdy , howdy , howdy. Also Jeremy Hinkley. He's a professional dungeon master and oversees the campaign at Battlemage Brewing. Jeremy , welcome to you too.
S3: Hi there.
S1: Well , you all first question here and Jeremy , I'll toss it to you. Um , some of our listeners might know about Dungeons and Dragons , but they might not be as familiar with the storytelling and mechanics behind it.
S2: Uh , you use a set of different dice , but the 20 sided die is going to be your main dice that lets you kind of do everything you need to do make skill checks , use your abilities. But at its core , Dungeons and Dragons is a shared storytelling game. So you have a Dungeon Master like myself that guides the players through a story , and their actions and their characters backstories help to shape the world around them and tell a fantastical story together.
S1: Well , tell us more about the Dungeon Master.
S2: And what we do here at Battle Mage is something called homebrew. So we're actually creating our world from scratch. And , uh , myself and the team of Dungeon Masters , we're crafting a story for our players that hasn't been seen before in pre-written adventures like modules. But our job is to not just facilitate that adventure and guide the players through it , but to accommodate the player's decisions. And we can change the story depending on what the players decide to do. So basically , we're kind of sharing the space with them. We're telling them a story , but they're actively involved in creating how it turns out. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Well Ryan , you co-founded Battle Mage Brewing a few years ago. What's the story.
S3:
S4: We opened back in May of 2017. Me and my best friend Chris Berry just grew up playing video games and for nerds. And we like beer. We've been brewing for about , uh , gosh , 14 years apiece now , I think. And , uh , we've been friends since we were little kids , and we wanted to open a brewery that reflected our passions besides beer. So , uh , this became a really cool space to kind of share those interests with other people within the community.
S1: And Jeremy , like we said , dad is celebrating 50 years.
S2: I mean , you know , I started in 3.5. So , so halfway between third edition and fourth edition when they made some rule updates. And I've kind of been through the game through those additions and seeing the changes there. I think fifth edition , what we're kind of dealing with now is really streamlined. And it became more welcoming to players. And there's there's new updates that are just coming out this year that I think can add a lot to the game. But what we've seen is not only did those new rules with fifth Edition start bringing people in because the rules were streamlined , the game seemed a little less daunting maybe than before , but also just media like Critical Role and Stranger Things brought a lot of people into the space that maybe we're curious about. Things like the Indian hadn't played before. So in the last , I'd say in the last seven years since we've been doing games at Battlemage , I've really seen the community just explode beyond our wildest dreams. It's a huge community and a lot of people coming in curious that I've never played a game before , and they really get sucked into that story element and the friendship of it all. And yeah , it's just been really beautiful to be a part of that and watch this game that I love so much just grow exponentially.
S1:
S4: It's something that is from a tasting room aspect has always been really important to us to kind of foster that community , that kind of face to face environment. And we live in kind of a digital world where it's very easy to get sucked into your computer screen or your TV screen and you. You don't get that human interaction. And there's kind of been a renaissance of board games and tabletop games and things like D&D that are bringing more face to face connections where you interact with a group of players. And I think , I mean , beer always makes that a little bit easier. It's kind of the thing that binds it all together for us. Um , so it's been cool to see the community kind of grow over the years. I mean , we've done several campaigns and there's been hundreds of players that have come through , so it's kind of cool to see how a lot of those players have become best friends. Some of them have gotten married like it's it's , you know , an ever growing community. And it's cool to to see it continue to thrive.
S1: Well , I'm curious to know more about your background with D&D and how else that game has shaped your business.
S4: So I'm fairly new to D&D. Actually , Jeremy was the first person to ever DM a game for me. Um , I grew up playing EverQuest and World of Warcraft and , you know , Warhammer Tabletop and lots of other fantasy games from my childhood till now. But it was always hard for us to find a dungeon master when we were a kid. We didn't actually know anyone that was into it back then. So yeah , I feel like D&D. Kind of. Going back to the other question a little bit , is going through kind of a pop culture renaissance when I was a kid. Being a nerd made you a little bit of a not a pariah , so to speak , but you were kind of an outsider. And then all of a sudden , Lord of the rings came to the big screen , and all of a sudden it was cool to like orcs and goblins and everything. And that was all of a sudden very accepted in the pop culture realm. And I feel like right now with Stranger Things and other things that Jeremy referenced , that's kind of happening with D&D. Also , you see it go beyond the the normal circles that people would play , and it really taps into things that all people like.
S1: So what sets D&D apart from video games.
S4: I think one thing that sets D&D apart from all the other games , all the other MMOs and computer games and console games I've played , is those games are all linear. There's only a certain path you can take , only certain things you can do , even if the world seems endless. Whereas dad , the only limit is your imagination and the fact that you can literally attempt to do anything and then maybe fail , depending on your dice roll and the DM's , forgiveness makes the game really limitless. I mean , the only limit is what you can come up with in your imagination , which is kind of cool and unique. No other game has that.
S1: So the campaigns at Battlemage are pretty unique in that they're all connected. In fact , Jeremy , you're working with a team of Dungeon Masters to make it all happen. Tell us about what makes your specific campaign stand out.
S2: So we're on our fifth campaign here. And there's kind of through lines , through the campaigns. What we've created is different lands , um , on the same , essentially on the same planet. And we're crafting , uh , almost an entire world that has a rich history that's influenced by each campaign. Uh , but one of the major things that we've done that that makes what we do different from what's happening anywhere else is that all of the games that happen every week , we do , uh , now we're up to about five games a night , two times a week. So ten games a week , sometimes more than that , where all of those players and Dungeon Masters are telling parts of the same story , and all of those things are happening concurrently. And we've actually borrowed , uh , kind of ideas in mechanics from the MMO RPGs that Ryan and Chris love , like EverQuest and World of Warcraft to create , essentially raid bosses in Dungeons and Dragons. So you'll have a DM running each of five tables , and then you'll have another Dungeon Master that's actually running this huge boss monster that jumps from table to table in real time and creates this feeling that even though the players might be in different tables or even different rooms , you're all doing this together at the same time as a group of heroes.
S3: Well , and.
S1: Like we've already alluded to in our conversation , D&D has really surged in popularity over the past few years. How would you both describe the community for D and D in San Diego ? Jeremy , I'll start with you.
S2: Yeah , sure. I think the community in in D and D , uh , or 4D and D in San Diego is really , really strong. We've seen a lot of players turn out here , um , to enjoy our campaigns. We've even seen a few copycats , uh , pop up around the area that are trying to capitalize on that success and create those kind of communities , and I think that's really cool. It speaks to how powerful Dungeons and Dragons is. And we also recently had a small convention of first year convention right here in the city of Vista at the Estonian called Mystic Con. That was all centered around Dungeons and Dragons and Battlemage. We had a booth there , and I ran a game there , and it was really cool to just see people from all over the county and even from beyond , even from LA , and a couple people from out of state that came through just to be part of that community and meet other people in the area that like D&D and want to play D&D and tell those stories together. So it's really , really blossoming. And I think it's created an environment where a lot of people can build friendships , adult friendships , and that can be difficult sometimes , especially for those of us that grew up in the nerdy sphere. So that community can be really powerful , even life changing for some of us.
S3: Yeah , well.
S1:
S4: So as long as it continues to grow and everyone's having fun. I think that's the the key is creating good experiences for people , telling good stories , having good beer , making new friends and having adventures. I mean , one thing that I think is always cool with dad is you see people from all walks of life , all kind of ages and everything come through to play. So it's a really open game that's open to everybody. I was shocked how wildly popular it was amongst the military here in San Diego. I mean , we have a huge military presence with Pendleton up in Oceanside and everything. And , uh , people in the military are kind of nerds. So that kind of that was a shock to me a little bit. But , uh , being able to have kind of a , a bastion for people to come to and share those experiences together.
S1:
S2: And what we do is we have a Dungeon Master that guides people who've never played the game before , uh , using low level characters into the world. And that can make it , um , you know , easy to do. But I would say that the new rules are really accessible. And if you're interested , just head over to , uh , any website that maybe has those rules available and , and give you some ideas and get a group of friends together and jump in. Because the most important part of D&D is the storytelling. You can get more familiar with the mechanics as you play , but at its core , storytelling is what dad is about. And the rule of cool , you know , even if it doesn't fit right in the mechanics. If you want to do something , the Dungeon Master and other people at the table , they're going to help you do that and figure out how that works in the game. So just jump in. Don't be scared.
S1: I've been speaking with Ryan Sather , co-owner of Battlemage Brewing Company. Ryan. Thank you.
S4: Yeah , it's been a blast. Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Also , Jeremy Hinckley , head dungeon master at Battle Mage Brewing. Jeremy , thanks to you , too. Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S2: Thank you for having us. It was a pleasure.
S1: Coming up , the San Diego Asian Film Festival will showcase more than 170 films from 35 countries , but one film title will be kept tightly under wraps.
S5: We're going to play a martial arts film. I'm not going to tell you what it is when it's from what language it's in , and you just have to trust us. I can't say more.
S1: Hear more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. The San Diego Asian Film Festival opens tonight. It celebrates a quarter century of bringing Asian , American and international cinema to San Diego. KPBS arts reporter Beth Accomando spoke with festival artistic director Brian Hu about the changes he's seen and what to expect from this year's lineup. Take a listen.
S6:
S5: People were coming out to see Asian and Asian American films because there was literally no place to watch these accessibly. Now with YouTube , you could just if you're interested , you could find it online. So we've really seen filmmakers have to adjust to like we have to build audiences. We have to find people who are for whom just being represented is not enough. We have to entertain them. We have to thrill them. We have to seduce them. And we've been working with these filmmakers. And so that's one big thing that we've seen , you know , on top of a pandemic and the conversion to digital and fighting against streaming and all that. But yeah , so that's there's been quite some 25 years.
S6: Well , one of the films you have this year I am especially excited about this is a documentary on Tura Satana.
S7: Let's just time Lancelot as he comes charging to the rescue.
S8:
S7: You were. Great.
S8: Great.
S9:
S8: Let's have it.
S6: Tristana just kicks ass. There is really no other way to describe her. And she left an indelible mark on pop culture as Varla and Russ Myers. Faster , pussycat ! Kill , kill ! So tell us about this documentary and how you got it.
S5: But for those who don't know , I mean , Satan is such a legend of cult cinema , of independent film in the United States. But , I mean , I grew up watching this film. I mean , not when I was too young because it wasn't appropriate. But I never thought of the lead actress as an Asian American person. And later on , I discovered that , and it made me want to know more. But there's so little has been talked about her , let alone as an Asian American person , but just as just who is she behind this legendary character ? And then once we found out in this documentary , my jaw dropped because what is off screen is just as thrilling as what's on screen.
S6: Yes , it's amazing. And you have other documentaries too. There's one that was quite fascinating , Mistress Speller. So explain what this is about , because it's probably something most people are not familiar with.
S5: So in China , there is the figure of the mistress , the speller , sort of a new job that has sprouted out in sort of the economy of of romance. So what happens is , if you suspect in this case that your husband is cheating on you , you can hire a mistress , the speller , and that person will go undercover. As you know , the friend of a friend , hang out with the husband and maybe try to figure out what's going on , and then maybe befriend the mistress with the hope of getting more information , and then , you know , maybe breaking it up , maybe trying to get the original couple back together. But. Wow. So just as a character in society , this is such a fascinating phenomenon. But if you're a documentarian , how do you capture this ? Because you don't necessarily have everyone's permission when half of them know more than the other half , right ? Elizabeth Lowe , the director who is just one of the great American documentarians now , she found a way to do this in an ethical way and in a way that did get everybody's permission at the end of the day , because at the end of the day , everybody was once the story played out , they were all fascinated by , wow , how did this happen ? People should know how it went down between the 3 or 4 of us. And , well , I watched this movie just in total awe of what an accomplishment this movie is because like , how did you pull this off ? How did you get scenes where you had mistress and the mistress. The speller. Talking in front of a camera. That's quite. Good.
S6: Good. So in addition to documentaries , you also have a place for something that's very close to my heart , as well as tourist , which is horror. And there's one film that is actually an older horror film , beast of the Yellow Knight. And this is interesting because it's a Filipino filmmaker and it's from the 1970s.
S5: Yeah , I had not heard about this film until one of our programmers , who is a UCSD graduate student or just finished her PhD , and she wrote it on this fascinating era of Filipino directors working with American producers in the 1970s. And one such figure was Eddie Romero. He's considered one of the greatest directors of all time in the Philippines , making the equivalent of the Oscar winning films. But in the 70s , when you get when Hollywood comes knocking on your door , and especially the great late producer Roger Corman knocks on your door and says , hey , do you want to ? We want to do a horror film in an unnamed Southeast Asian country. Can you help me out ? Eddie Romero did a bunch of these , like , very , very these are like C grade , like exploitation movies in the 1970s.
S10: When the evil in a man has so rotted away his soul that even death cannot bring him release. He suffers the cruelest curse ever placed upon mortal man by the host of darkness. He becomes the beast of the Yellow Knight.
S5: And to me , what's so interesting about it is you could see all these , like , legendary Filipino actors in the background , because he knew all these people and they were all excited to get in on what the Hollywood action was. So the film is about the interactions between American folks in this unnamed Southeast Asian country , and there are werewolves , and there's the little guy who's literally the devil and there's blood. And yeah , it's a ton of fun. And but that's also the reason we're doing this film is because this is Eddie Romero's 100th birthday this year , and I guess we could have celebrated one of his esteemed award winners. But we decided to go , go , go , go to like what he's better known for in the United States , which is these kind of be horror films.
S10: Beast of the Yellow Night , see it with someone you trust.
S6: And one of the things I really love about the festival is the kind of wild mood swings you can find at the festival. So we've been talking about some of these horror kind of B-movies , but you also have these absolutely amazing films , like the ones by Lav Diaz , who makes these 2 to 3 hour long films. And I know that a runtime like that may scare people , but I can attest to the fact that these are riveting movies that are so layered and so well crafted. And I have you to thank for introducing me to him. And he has a new film this year.
S5: We've shown a lot of these movies are like 5.5 hours. This year's film Fantasia , is a mere four hours , but it's extraordinary. So Fantasia refers to the affliction that the lead character has. Basically , he used to work in the military. He's seen the worst of humanity. And years later , he has this , like , phantom smell in his nose that he can't get rid of this odor. And his psychiatrist says , well , you need to immerse yourself back in kind of the horrors that you experience. So he decides to work at this penal colony where he discovers that we may not be in the same kind of wartime now , but there are all kinds of fascistic horrors right below the surface. And , you know , there are like these long scenes where you're trying to feel out a moment and you realize just how icky feeling in moments can be , and how characters are continuing to do really awful things in society. And it becomes a metaphor for ways in which power continues to reassert itself through violence , even when we're quote unquote , not fighting a war.
S6: Another thing that you focus on in the festival is screening classics that are restored or just haven't been seen in a long time. And I appreciate the fact that you bring something like Shanghai Blues , one of Choi Hawks early films , one.
UU: For Antonioni , Woody Mon.
S6: And find a place for these kind of restored classics.
S5: There are a lot , I think , because of AI , all the new digital technologies that allow these technicians to be able to take these older prints , scan them in like very , very like in 4K , and then fix them up like , you know , um , these prints may have faded or scratched and try to recover the , the original state of these prints. And when I saw this film again , I was reminded of just what a genius Troy Hawke was. I think Hollywood sometimes needs to slow things down to make sure every person in the audience is following along. Chalk says. I'm here for those who want the theme park like like want the roller coaster version of this ? This movie is as funny to me as anything Charlie Chaplin has ever done. Just that the the visual comedy , what you can do with just a few people in a room and based on how you arrange them , how you cut the scene , you will have the audience in stitches. I'm so thrilled to be able to show this on the big screen again , and have everyone chuckle in the theater together.
S6: Well , speaking of roller coasters , you are finding a place also for my one of my favorite aspects of your programming Mystery Kung Fu Theater.
S11: Ha ha. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. So this is where we invite audience members. You know , we're going to play a martial arts film. I'm not going to tell you what it is when it's from what language it's in. And you just have to trust us. And this year , I already know what it is. I've been planning this one for a while. It's a blast and we just tested it on the big screen and it's , well , wow , our audience is going to have a great time.
S6: All right. I can't wait for that. And you have another film. I'm not sure if this one's actually restored , but there's a Vietnamese film from the 1980s when the 10th month comes.
S5: For those who have or haven't seen when the 10th month comes , this will be the best you will ever see the film. When this film first came out in the 1980s , this was this was the first film that from Vietnam that was seen in the West. I think a lot of people in the West were curious , like , well , where films were was Vietnam. And we've we've all seen like Hollywood's rendition of , say , the Vietnam wars in Oliver Stone movies. We've seen Apocalypse Now. But how are people in Vietnam telling the story of their last 30 years ? And this is a incredible wartime melodrama. What's really special about our screening is we've been working directly with the Vietnamese Film Institute , and for this screening , they've created new subtitles. So yeah , even though it's not an official restoration , it is. We here in San Diego will be the first to see this film in this state.
S6: And another first is there's an exciting piece of animation from Pakistan. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. I mean , when we think of Pakistani cinema , we probably don't immediately think of animation , let alone animation that looks like a Studio Ghibli film. And to me , that's so it's so liberating to see this , because animation allows you to live purely in your own kind of ideals and fantasies and your imagination. A lot of Pakistani audiences have been waiting so long for this movie , because to them , it's also it's so empowering to see that their story can be something other than like wartime documentaries. It can also be the kind of animation that's fitting of the big screen in a megaplex , which is what we're going to be showing it.
S6: The last film I want to bring up is one that is not typical for me , because this was a genuinely sweet and sentimental film from India , and I swear it almost got a tear out of me at the end. So talk about this film.
S5: Yeah , this is Super Boys of Michigan and it's it's directed by one of the major Bollywood screenwriters. She's she's written some of the biggest hits of all time in Bollywood. This film is for her like very much an independent film. And it's also a testament to the independent spirit. So this is a film that's about this small town. They've had this movie theater going for a long time , and at some point he's like this , this guy in town who just loves movies. He starts cutting together little reels of like Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee movies. And then the authorities just tell him , you can't do this. This is illegal. You don't have the rights to these movies. So he says , but I want to save this theater. Like the film going experience and cinema as we know it is way too important. So he says , him and his buddies say , let's just make our own movies. And they decide to remake classic Bollywood like epics by and for this small town and sort of the energy that it brings together for those who are behind the camera , for those who can be watching in the theater. And then of course , it goes in some other really , really touching directions. I guarantee you would not be the only one with a tear in your eye at the end of this screening.
S1: That was Brian Who , artistic director of the San Diego Asian Film Festival , speaking with KPBS Beth Accomando. The festival runs through November 16th. Beth will moderate the Q&A after the Tura documentary on Saturday , and you can check out her list of Must-See films on her Cinema Junkie blog at pbs.org. Still to come , Pulitzer Prize winner Viet Thanh Nguyen talks about his latest children's book , Simone , which follows a Vietnamese American girl after a wildfire upends her life.
S5: The book is balanced between these two disasters of.
S12: Fire and flood , but also what they represent , and that everything in balance is part of what nature has determined for us. And Simone has to come to some recognition of that.
S1: KPBS Midday Edition returns after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. Viet Thanh Nguyen is a writer , scholar and activist. You may know him for his best selling novel , The Sympathizer , which won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction in 2016. His other work includes The Committed , which is the 2021 sequel to The Sympathizer , the short story collection The Refugees , and much more. His latest children's book , Simone , tells the story of a young Vietnamese American girl whose life is upended by a wildfire. Well , last month , Viet sat down with KPBS arts reporter Julia Dixon Evans in studio to talk about Simone and his journey through identity and history. Take a listen.
S13: Much of your work explores different facets of the refugee experience , and in Simone , the main character is a climate refugee.
S12: She's asleep , and all of a sudden she hears her mother crying. It's time to wake up Simone , and she hears fire alarms. And so she wakes up to , I think , one of the worst nightmares for many of us as Californians , obviously , but just as people in general , this idea that all of a sudden this huge fires coming out of nowhere and is threatening the entire neighborhood , and she has to make a very rapid decision , what is she going to grab and take with her because they have to flee ? And I think this is unfortunately an increasingly common experience and something that we all have to prepare for. And that was the impetus for writing the book.
S13:
S12: And this idea came to me from the artist Minnie Fan , who illustrates this book , and she had this idea about a Vietnamese American girl confronting wildfires. And I took that idea and I ran with it. And I thought , you know , what's the opposite of fire ? The opposite of fire is water. We need water , but too much water can be bad. And I thought about how in Vietnam there's a lot of flooding , some really bad flooding. And so I gave Simone the character of a mother who's been through flooding in Vietnam and now is facing fire here in California. And the book is balanced between these two disasters of fire and flood , but also what they represent , and that everything in balance is part of what nature has determined for us. And Simone has to come to some recognition of that.
S13: We also see Simone find the power of art and healing.
S12: Whereas I'm the father of two young children , an 11 year old boy and a four year old girl who's named Simone. And what I've seen in both cases is that all the kids in their schools have loved art. They've loved creating , they love playing , they love working with color and so on and so forth. So how did that happen ? That we all , as children seem to love art ? And then when we grow up as adults , we so many of us have left that behind. So I wanted to explore this child's point of view where art really does matter. It's something intimate , it's something natural to small children. And Simone ends up as a climate refugee in a high school gymnasium where the shelter has been set up. And as the adults are all freaking out , she has to calm herself down. And how does she do it ? Through the pens and pencils and paper she's brought with her , and she extends that to the other fellow children who are also scared. And so through that experience where she learns to take charge , she learns that art can be a way of soothing herself and these other children , but also , as a way , it's a way for her to give expression to all of these confused feelings that she is experiencing , and that for her , it's her way of managing her fear in the face of this very difficult new reality. Um.
S14: Um.
S13: You have alluded to this , but climate change is worsening and extreme weather and the impacts are becoming more common. We're also seeing greater attention to the idea of climate trauma. What are your thoughts on this and and how it could impact future generations ? Like Simmons.
S12: I think climate change or climate catastrophe is certainly here. I hope there is no more denial that's happening out there , especially as all parts of the country are being hit , regardless of whether they're red or blue. And so we have to move to a stance of both fighting against climate catastrophe , catastrophe , but also adapting to it as well. So I actually have not heard the term climate trauma. Thank you for introducing me to another horrible thing to think about. But but obviously climate adaptability encompasses that. And , you know , here in California , obviously we prepare for earthquakes all the time. But now I think as a state and as a nation , we have to prepare for a variety of different kinds of climate disasters. And that would include not just the physical aspect and the financial aspect , but also , as you were saying , the emotional aspect of trying to confront what these climate catastrophes mean. Obviously , it can be really daunting as we think about the world ending. It's not the first and only instance where people have had to confront the possibility of their world ending. So in some ways , I think refugees are already equipped to deal with this. But most Americans have never had to confront the refugee experience , except now , as a potentially think of themselves as climate refugees. And being a refugee is a traumatic experience. And let's hope that now Americans who have oftentimes tried to close a door against refugees might want to open the door to what refugees who have already gone through displacement , what they can tell us about how they have coped with trauma.
S13: That's interesting. I would like to talk about your memoir. It's called a man of Two Faces , and it follows your family's history from Vietnam to the United States.
S12: I've never met a refugee who has not had a really terrifying story. And I came as a refugee to the United States when I was four. So I was insulated from that in a lot of ways because my parents bore the brunt of that trauma. But I experienced some of that being separated from my parents when I was four years of age , for example , and I survived that by looking forward constantly and pretending that I had not been traumatized. I think that was my way of coping with displacement and terror. And that worked in one sense , because I was able to become a functioning adult , I think , and , you know , professional and so on. But in writing the memoir , what became very clear was that , you know , I actually had had survived the way that I had by compartmentalizing the trauma. But it was there , it had been lurking , and it had shaped me in ways that I never understood. As I look back on my life in writing this memoir , I realized , oh , those moments of dysfunction in my life , those came directly from that traumatic experience. So writing the memoir obviously was very revelatory in a lot of ways. That helped me to understand myself , but it was very difficult because I had to go into that locked box of emotion that I had , you know , put away in order to move forward. And I think most people reasonably don't want to go into their own particular locked box of trauma. Uh , if you've managed to survive , if you've managed to cope with it , a lot of people don't want to go back there. But as a writer , unfortunately or fortunately , that's where the material comes from.
S13: You've said in another interview that part of your process included pretending to be The Sympathizer while writing about yourself. Talk a little more about that , please.
S12: I think I'm best known for a novel called The Sympathizer , which is about a communist spy , and the opening line of that novel is I'm a spy , a sleeper , a spook , a man of two faces. So it's a merger of the spy story with an existential drama of feeling this duality within oneself. And I am not a spy , I think , but. And if I was , I wouldn't tell you. But I've taken the experience of duality , which I think is common for a lot of immigrants and refugees and minorities of various kinds , which I certainly experience growing up. And I put it into the body of the spy. So that element is autobiographical. And I had a lot of fun writing that novel. When it came time to writing the a man of Two Faces , I felt that it was very difficult for me to write about myself. I didn't feel my life was very interesting and so on , and so I had to create a persona. I went back to my sympathizer and I thought , well , I'll have The Sympathizer write my autobiography. And that was the that was the way I cracked myself open by using the character that I had created , having that character write about me and through me , and he cracked me open enough so that I could get into myself and then eventually have myself finally take over later on in the memoir.
S13:
S12: Whereas with a lot of memoirs , non-fiction , you sometimes have to ask , how much of this is actually fiction ? I mean , how many of us pick up a memoir and believe everything that the memoir says ? I mean , the memoirs can make up all kinds of things. Sometimes that's deliberate , but oftentimes it's accidental. We tell stories about ourselves all the time as a way of serving our own interests. And so I really had to confront that in writing this memoir that it was in many ways as honest as I could be about myself , but even so , did I really know myself. It's certainly an attempt to do that , but I think I always have to be cautious and aware that there are forces at play within me that I don't fully understand. But ultimately , I think what makes a memoir compelling is that we have to betray secrets now , it's one thing to betray the secrets of other people who never asked to be involved in your memoir. In my case , my family , for example. But in order to make that believable and palatable for readers , I think the memoirist ultimately has to betray themselves. That's the ultimate honesty that I think the memoir , as a form , demands from anybody who dares to take it up. That's why when you read a really good memoir , I think one one of my reactions to a really good memoir memoir has always been , I can't believe they just wrote that.
S13: I love that you just did a talk at UC San Diego , where you trace your own journey to identifying with the Palestinian cause. I'd love it if you could talk more about that journey.
S12: I think it's important to talk about that kind of a connection in today's day and age , when , at least in the United States , it seems as if there is so much censorship and pressure against speaking out on Palestine in ways that would contradict the stance of Israel and its supporters. For me , the connection between Vietnam and Palestine is that Vietnam underwent many decades of war and colonization and occupation by outside powers , with France and with the United States , and that war displaced so many people and turned so many of us into refugees. And then I got to the United States , and I became an American , and I was able to tell my story in a way that Americans could understand , because Americans at least know that the Vietnam War happened and that this was a conflict within the United States. And here was a Vietnamese American coming along to tell them something about this story. But the issue is , I think that for a lot of Americans , they do not understand how much war has happened in American history. It's really amazing that we have had so many wars as Americans and Americans cannot connect. The dots is like , oh , we were in the Philippines , we were in Korea , we're in Laos , we're in Cambodia , we're in Vietnam. This is just accidental that America has fought so many wars. And in fact , you know , my my writing has so much been about arguing that America is a country composed of both beauty and brutality , and it goes back to the very origins. So the beauty is obviously the democracy of the equality , the opportunity of all of which I've benefited from. But the beauty has only been made possible by the brutality that this is a nation that has been founded on enslavement , genocide , colonization and war , and from that fundamental contradiction that defines our country. I can draw a direct line from the the settlement of America to the wars in Asia leading to Vietnam and then going from there to Iraq , Afghanistan , Palestine. I think it's a very clear thread of the American desire to have domination over as much of the world as we Americans could possibly want. And so the Palestinian resistance to Israel , I think , directly contradicts the American notion that we are always on the side of democracy and freedom. We could be on the side of democracy and freedom for Israelis , but that's being , you know , done at the cost of the occupation of Palestine , the suppression of Palestinian speech and the killing of many Palestinians.
S13: You were on a book tour last year when one of your events was canceled shortly before it was set to take place , and it was in response to an open letter that you had signed in the London Review of Books calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. And it's been over a year since then.
S12: I'm opposed to war. I'm opposed to genocide , I'm opposed to occupation. But I was also really aware that , you know , after nine over 11 , the United States did exactly the wrong thing. It went into a mode of revenge and into a series of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that took the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who had nothing to do with nine over 11. And I think it was very obvious in the aftermath of October 7th that Israel , the chance of Israel doing the exact same thing , was very , very high and that many , many innocent Palestinians would pay the price. So I thought it was absolutely important to sign this letter calling for cease fire. And it turned out to be a very controversial letter. And of course , a lot of people have been fired or silenced in various ways for taking on this cause of ceasefire. And now look at us a year later , I think it's become common sense that there should be a ceasefire. So what happened in the year in between ? Was it really necessary to engage in this horrifying war that's killed at least 42,000 Palestinians ? I don't think so. And so it was hard , I think , to and for so many people to look past the reflexive need for revenge and the cause for nationalism and so on that were happening back then. But the actor Andrew Garfield , most famous for Spider-Man , went to the 92nd Street Y , the very same institution that canceled my talk. And he was asked on the very same stage , I should have been on what's most preoccupying you ? And he said the suffering and the deaths of Palestinians and the world didn't end simply because someone said that on that stage. And I think the lesson for me from that was , number one , I would have been happy to be on that stage in on October 28th and to have taken all the criticism and all the anger and all the questions and all the comments that people might have had , and we would all have been better off in the in the 92nd Street. Y would have been better off as well for having had that difficult conversation. So at the very least , you know , this whole year's worth of cancellations , suppressions and so on that have taken place not just at the 92nd Street Y , but throughout the United States , including so many college campuses , including my own. All that that is indicated is that silencing will get us nowhere. We need to have the difficult conversations and places like university campuses and cultural institutions like the 92nd Street Y. And this radio show. That's exactly what we should be doing.
S1: That was author Viet Thanh Nguyen , speaking with KPBS arts reporter Julia Dixon Evans. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
