S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hyneman. On the show today , we take a look into ways to embrace aging and learn about the ways friendship can help us be healthier and happier as we grow older. It's midday Edition with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. Growing older is inevitable , but it can be an opportunity as well.
S2: You can learn to celebrate yourself because others really want to celebrate you.
S1: Plus , how to embrace dating at an older age. That's all ahead on meditation. Growing older can be a challenging feat both physically and emotionally. American society often frowns upon markers of age , encouraging us to cling onto youth. But what if we embraced aging with joy and even a sense of self-discovery ? Local author Louise Stanger explores that journey with her new book , Reflections on Aging from the Sunset Marquis. She's based in Rancho Santa Fe. Luis joins me now. Welcome to Midday. Edition.
S3: Edition.
S2: Oh , Andrew , thank you so much. I'm just so honored to be here with you today.
S1: Great to have you here. So your muse for the book is the Sunset Marquis Hotel in West Hollywood. Tell us about the backdrop of the book.
S2: So the backdrop is I lived in San Diego for almost 50 years , being a professor at Sdsu , an administrator at USD , and help people all across the world. And I decided to take an urban adventure. And never having lived in a city. We moved to West Hollywood , which is where the home of Sunset Marquis is. And as I would walk up the hill going off to SoulCycle , which is a spinning class , I met , I talked to everybody. You have to know that or interview everybody. I met everybody from the Marquis , and it has an amazing history and amazing synergy. It's the home of Nightingale Studios. It's the home of many rock stars , and it is just a hidden gem. Truthfully , I wanted to update my website and I was working with a world class photographer whose photos you see in the book Sherald Fox , and we decided to do a photo shoot there because it's just got great synergy , great hidden spots , and always full of vitality , which is really what the book is about. And when I got done , I had a little piece of paper. And on that little piece of paper , I wrote the name of every chapter. Uh , and it was let the music in and there was music playing , and it was energetic , vital , vital. And making aging be something to be proud of , something to embrace and something to enjoy.
S1: And music seems to be sort of the main character of the book. And you mentioned it there.
S2: If you look at country music , um , right now , you'll see everybody has something falling apart , breaking down , being able to do it. I think it is a wonderful way in which to convey emotion , a way to convey intellect , and a way to draw people in , because music itself is universal.
S1: Yeah , absolutely. I mean , one chapter in your book is about the power of maintaining movement as we age.
S2: The room was dark black. It didn't matter that I didn't ever know how to write a real bicycle. I could do that here. Since I've moved back to San Diego. I've found joy and connection in pickleball because it's just the funniest sport in the world. You're on a little square , as big as as big as a shower , and yet you talk and everything. Swimming has always been a joy for me. Walking. Walking for me is great , and though I'm definitely not a runner , I think that is a wonderful way to embrace where you are. To take a look at the scenery and be somewhere where you can reflect and do many things. So staying active means being in the world. Taking a look at your body and doing what your body can do.
S1: And you mentioned pickleball there. I mean , some you know , swimming is obviously more solitary , but pickleball is really kind of a communal thing. I mean , I see it , it's exploded in popularity. I see it in my neighborhood all the time. You know , it has that social impact.
S2: And I'm very much an intergenerational thing. I'll tell you one side. Funny , I just turned 78 and my family threw me a small pickleball party where not only did they throw me a pickleball party , everybody , I was wondering why they were all wearing my clothes. They all had to dress like me. And so it was. Absolutely. And the age range of the people involved were my age was 78. The youngest one might have been about 40. So it's very intergenerational in nature. And I think , um , there was once a philosopher theoretician named Erick Erickson. And he said in order to have generativity and in the world meaning the world was okay , the world was good. You have to have you have to be able to give that to basic trust. So the fact that pickleball doesn't just confine to 78 year olds together , but it can be a melting pot. So you can benefit from everybody's wisdom.
S1:
S2: Two , to learn about the world as they saw it in their generation. Like , I am a digital immigrant. You may be a digital native or something like that. I mean , I can sort of do Instagram , but I just have a 23 year old helping me with Instagram. They're genius. I think you can learn about their ways. You know , if I mention someone , they'll go , who is that ? But then they'll mention someone and I'll go , what is that ? Teach me about that. There's a richness in in connection. There's a richness in in inner generativity.
S1: Do you feel like our society is is kind of becoming more welcoming to the idea of aging ? I mean , I think of on the one hand , I think of all these , you know , you see like a 30 under 30 list and it always like , I don't know.
S2: Well , Forbes needs to have a 70 under 70 or 80 under 80 lists. So I'll volunteer for Forbes. I think that sometimes we are very welcoming. You know , if you think about Jane Fonda , if you think about other actresses , they're still getting jobs. But for the most part , um , really , youth is undulated before our very eyes and really been captivating. But I think if you take a look at the population , the majority population is aging And then how can you welcome them with resiliency ? It's not that they need to be put aside or put into a home , unless that's really necessary , but integrated into the community. And also if you look at statistically an older worker is a better worker than a younger worker. They will work harder , faster , better , and probably for less money.
S1: In your book , you also write about the power of reflection , meditation , and gratitude.
S2: There was a researcher by the name of Edmonds , and Edmonds is a positive psychologist. And the practice of gratitude , being grateful for who you are , what you do every day. But doing with a partner can really help change it. Reflection is taking a step back. Let me take a look at what I've done , what I want to do and how I've done it. And also let me make corrections , because not everything we do is perfect , and meditation is a way in which we stop , we hit and pause. My most favorite meditation is Deepak Chopra is 21 Days of Abundance. Because I don't have a long attention span. It's 12 minutes , but if I pay attention and I meditate , I have a practice of gratitude. I practice gratitude every morning with two very unlikely people. One is a physician here in San Diego and Ocean Beach. Another is a young psychologist in Florida , and we've been doing this gratitude list. Or sometimes we miss every morning for the last three and a half years , what happens over time. And and I invite you to do a gratitude list with is they change. They become much more depth , much more. More than just it's a beautiful day. I'm grateful for a beautiful day. It may be. You know , I'm grateful that I finished a chapter. I'm grateful that I had a good doctor's report or whatever it is. You begin to share your heart and.
S1: And how do you do that ? You say you do it with a couple of colleagues you have , so you get on a phone call.
S3:
S2: Can do every morning. You should. There's something called a morning miracle where you get on , you do a morning miracle. You did a meditation , a reflection and a gratitude list. And sometimes people will do that same evening miracle. They'll do the same thing over again. I like personally as a clinician to do it with someone else. One , because you become accountable and you become responsible to someone else. And again , you're in connection. Because for me , connection is the opposite of isolation. And it's the key to communication. It's the key to recovery , however you choose to define recovery.
S1: And I think you know , this idea of the loneliness epidemic. It's been getting so much attention. Surgeon general kind of released , you know , how it impacts our health and warnings about it , and that social peace seems so important to a lot of your your approach here to aging.
S2: Yes it is. I think being isolated and aging is , is frightening because you don't you know , a lot of times , look , when you age , you see friends die , you see children's friends die. You are no longer. When I was 20 and a student here , graduate student in the School of Social Work here , I remember reading a book and it was called The Person by Theodore Litz and it said , when you grow old , you creak and you creak and groan a bit. And I absolutely , positively laughed. I go , what ? I'm not creaking , groaning. I'm 20 years old. I can be anything. I can do anything. But as you age you creak and groan. But within that , what is your power ? What's your superpower ? Everybody has a superpower.
S1:
S2: You got to remember that grandma Moses painted when she was 98 , that some people don't get into their prime until their 70s , that there are things that are people. But you have to understand that I'm not going to suddenly climb Kilimanjaro tomorrow. I might go there on a mule. I might go there on a backpack. But be conscious of what you're able to do. But the imagination has no limits.
S1: Well , I think about also , you know , preparing for this interview , I was thinking about , uh , Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones. And I looked him up , and he's 81 years old , and he's still playing these concerts and playing these , you know , stadium shows. And he's 81.
S2: I think age is just a number. And right now I think that we're not trying to defy our age. We're not denying our age , but we're saying , hey , look at me. You two can achieve this. You don't have to give up. You don't have to stop working. I remember when I first moved back to San Diego , um , the first person that came up to me was a similar age. And I love to work , and I will keep working until I am no longer deemed valuable or at such time that I choose to. And I remember the woman walking up to me and I was sort of aghast , where am I actually living ? And she said , what ? you work. And I said , I love to work , and there's good research out there that says your self-definition really increases in aging if you're still able to contribute. And that means you're still able to be work and still considered worthwhile.
S1:
S2: Um , I learned when I was a young social worker. Um , when you're older , you don't have sex. Okay , let's just take that one out of the window. You can still have a rich sexual life when you're older. You really don't know anything. You can't understand me. Um. That is a misconception. No , I cannot , I can only learn about you. I don't know what it was like growing up with Tick Tock , or what it's like to have constant digital media hitting you before your head , or how it is that you have so much screen time and no playtime. I don't know these things , but I can always try to understand.
S1:
S2: I think don't be afraid. You know , courage is fear that said its prayers and that you can be courageous at any age , at any stage and be cognizant of what your physical limitations are. Your emotional limitations are , and you can learn to celebrate yourself because others really want to celebrate you.
S1: I've been speaking with Louise Stanger , author of the new book Reflections on Aging from the Sunset Marquis Louise , thanks so much for being here.
S2: Oh , Andrew , thank you so much. And it's such an honor to be here and to meet you.
S1: Coming up , how the quality of our social connections impact our health and wellbeing as we age.
S4: Having at least one person that you can confide in does seem to have some pretty long lasting effects on protection from things like heart disease and even cognitive health problems like dementia.
S1: That's ahead on Midday Edition. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hyneman. On our show today , we're discussing strategies for embracing aging through joy and self-compassion. One key to healthy aging is building strong social connections. Health risks associated with loneliness include depression and anxiety , as well as an increased risk of heart disease and dementia , but forming new connections as an older adult can be difficult. So where should you start ? Joining me now is Colin Depp. He's a professor of psychiatry at UC San Diego's Stein Institute for Research on Aging. Professor Depp , thanks for joining us.
S4: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
S1:
S5:
S4: Think it's it is a relatively recent discovery , in a sense that social relationships are really critical to health in a lot of different ways. Um , and so when I say social connectedness , I'm referring to both the structure. How many people , you know , uh , and where you live , uh , living alone and that sort of thing. Then the function of relationships , what do they do for you and what do you do for them ? And then and then the quality of those , which is how satisfied you are with those relationships. And each of those variables is related to long term health outcomes , such as , as you mentioned , cognitive health , but then also physical health.
S1: And so what is the data say about the closeness of our relationships or friendship ? Like how close do you need to be with someone to get , you know , some of these benefits in that social connectedness ? Yeah.
S4: And that's I think where it is really tricky as compared to things like physical health , uh , physical activity , for example , or eating healthy. There's a pretty good markers for how much you need , uh , and , you know , let's say 10,000 steps. There isn't really a specific marker for social health as there as there is , uh , for , for those other health behaviors. But I think in general , the notion is , is that having at least one person that you can confide in does seem to have some pretty long lasting effects on , on protection from things like heart disease. And as you mentioned , even cognitive health problems like dementia , as well as emotional distress and discomfort , uh , it really is meant to to. It really seems to be a buffer against some of those problems.
S1:
S4: They interact with a smaller group of people. Um , but they actually experience , uh , less , uh , loneliness over time when they've been followed in large , uh , epidemiologic studies of , of , of aging and , and so what we typically see is actually that older adults are maybe more satisfied with their relationships. Uh , and they also are also when you compare them to , let's say , younger adults are teenagers are not experiencing the same increases in loneliness that are evident in younger groups.
S1: Yeah , that may be surprising.
S4: But really , I think at this point the jury's still out on why that is. Um , I do think that one explanation is that older adults really do a good job , often over the lifespan of of really focusing on just the relationships that matter and that impact them and maybe spending less time with more peripheral ones. So despite having maybe a smaller social network , um , they end up with one that they enjoy and gain more from than perhaps do younger people.
S1: And how is the pandemic shaped social connection in older people ? You know , that kind of taps into a lot of what you've been talking about in the different generations. It obviously impacted all social groups.
S4: And indeed , there was a fairly significant increase in the perceived social isolation and loneliness that occurred during the midst of the pandemic. But it does seem as though those effects have abated and that that older adults , at least in the studies that that I've seen , have experienced a return to kind of their prior levels of social interaction. That said , I think there are sort of long standing effects of the pandemic that we're probably not equipped to understand as yet.
S1:
S4: Two important ones are the Familiarity with technology or communication technology. Uh , to the extent that older adults may , uh , feel isolated from others because , uh , they don't , uh , use the devices that , uh , let's say younger people do. And so , uh , learning how to use , uh , cell phones and other tools , uh , to connect with others is , is one set of interventions that people have , uh , attempted to try to improve social health in older people. And another big one is , uh , hearing loss and trying to prevent the impact of hearing loss on social connectedness by use of of hearing aids. And that , uh , does seem to result in an increase in the extent to which people feel connected because they , you know , can interact with others to a greater extent.
S1: You mentioned cell phones there.
S4: And I think that that's another one where the , uh , the jury's still out as far as whether the interactions that you have with others and what form they take through cell phones , uh , asynchronous communication or through , uh , in-person , uh , connections. Um , the closest parallel that that I can think of is , is in , uh , telemedicine and sort of comparisons between in-person care and telehealth. And to date , there does not seem to be a major impact of , uh , remote versus in-person care in a number of conditions. And so I think that the best evidence to date is that that it may not necessarily matter how you connect with others , just as long as you do. So.
S1: So. In our last segment , we discussed the benefits of of intergenerational wisdom.
S4: So I think a lot of innovative community level programs that are really trying to capitalize on intergender relationships , such as mentoring programs and so forth , and really kind of capitalize on the wisdom and , um , depth of , uh , understanding that older people have and the unmet needs that occur in younger adults. And so , uh , San Diego is actually at the forefront of a lot of intergenerational programs and I'd love to see those continue.
S1:
S6:
S4: Suggest , and again , as I said earlier , there isn't a specific , uh , marker like 10,000 steps or something like that that you can rely on. But I would suggest thinking about your social network , the structure of it , and you potentially need more people or you disconnected from from others , the function of it. Are you feeling like there's a good balance between what you're giving and getting from your relationships , and then how satisfied you are with those relationships , thinking about the quality of those relationships and then trying to identify within that framework some strategies or locations , clubs , uh , social activities or even , uh , therapy that might , uh , get at some of the barriers to interacting with others to really figure out amongst quality , structure and function.
S1: Uh , you mentioned a couple of of programs earlier. Are there any other policies that you feel could be important in addressing this problem of social isolation , you know , especially among older adults ? Yeah.
S5:
S4: One of the the emerging policies or best practices is something called social prescribing. And in this sense , your primary care provider would would in addition to asking about your your blood pressure or your level of physical activity and so forth , ask about social relationships and along the lines of what we've discussed in terms of their quality or your enjoyment of your relationships , and then actually identify ways of prescribing social activities just as one would. Diet changes or that sort of thing. And so treating it as more of a health behavior that can be tracked. And part of routine care is , is one solution that I think is really becoming emergent in , in primary care and other health settings.
S1:
S5:
S4: Of different strategies that people have taken , and it really could include joining social groups. And as you mentioned , pickleball. The goal there is maybe to to play pickleball , but also to be around others. So availing yourself of things that are in the community. For older adults , that might include reminiscence groups or music based on your interests. Um , there are also strategies such as animal therapy or , uh , even cognitive behavioral interventions that get at social interactions and maybe perceive barriers that you have to those. So I think I would suggest , suggest treat your social life and your social health as you would , uh , your , the rest of your health and keep after it , uh , and be patient with it because it is it is difficult to to make new friends and to make new connections. Uh , so , so I think we really , I think being patient with yourself and others as you start to develop those new connections and potentially , uh , new relationships that you feel satisfied with.
S1: You mentioned reminiscence groups there. Can you talk about that ? I mean , I haven't heard that term.
S6:
S4: In , um , structured , uh , facilities such as , uh , assisted living facilities , uh , or other , uh , nursing homes , uh , where the goal is not so much to learn new skills , but to kind of go back in time and think about how life was in the 50s or 60s and connect to , uh , to prior experiences and really valued activities that , uh , one experienced over the course of time. And this is done at a group basis , uh , with older adults who maybe have some shared experiences , but then maybe have some unique experiences as well. Um , these are all structured activities that really occur as a way to , I think , make life , uh , in a , in a structured facility more colorful , uh , and connect people based on shared themes in life.
S1: I've been speaking with Colin Depp. He's a professor of psychiatry at UC San Diego's Stein Institute for Research on Aging. Professor Depp , thanks for being here.
S4: Thank you so much.
S1: Coming up , a conversation about some of the challenges that come with dating at an older age.
S7: When you talk to olders dating after 5060. They don't have anybody to talk about it with.
S1: That's ahead on Midday Edition. Welcome back to KPBS midday edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hyneman. Today we're talking about how to strengthen relationships in older adulthood , both with yourself and others. We just heard about the connection between healthy aging and social connections. Those connections could be platonic or even romantic. After all , falling in love happens at any age. But entering the dating scene as an older adult can be daunting. And joining me now is Judy Bonilla. She's a retired gerontologist here in San Diego , and she's also a newlywed. More on that later. Judy , welcome to Midday Edition.
S7: Andrew , thank you for having me. And I'm so glad we're able to talk about this conversation because it is so rarely discussed. And it's one , you know , we know we have an aging population , as you've already learned. However , no one talks about dating in older age , and older age is usually ten years older than your age.
S1: So yeah , let's get into it. I mean , you used to teach dating classes at San Diego Oasis , that nonprofit teaches skills to older adults.
S7: The spark that romance. They might have had an early , you know , in their teens or maybe 20s. However , fast forward to your now 60 plus. And when I say 60 plus , you can be 95 plus and be taking away classes. So that's a huge age segment. In those classes we talked about personal development. And again those are developing those social skills. If you've been in a relationship for a long time. It's also about safety and what it looks like in 2024 to be dating. Then I delved into building your profile. If you've ever done any online dating , putting together a profile , getting together the right pictures that are reflecting of you now at your current age , and then discussing and reviewing each of the apps or websites. Because usually older adults might be more comfortable using an , I'll say , a laptop or a desktop as opposed to their phone. So again , reviewing the different sites and more importantly , being able to sign up , pay pause , and maybe even cancel a site , and then moving on to what a first date might look like. And then after.
S1: Well , I mean , you kind of went right to the online dating , which is such a big change. You're talking about people that may have , you know , gone decades without , you know , going on a date , right ? So , I mean , how has.
S7: I think now for older adults , it's opened the door , the doors , because I'll say most people , if you've had the opportunity to go to college , that is probably probably the last time you're with a large group of people other than your work cohort or whatever you might be doing. So it's very difficult to , you know , meet other single people. And so online dating , I think , has opened up so much opportunity to meet people. And that is truly what it is. It's an opportunity to meet people. There is no perfect , um , website or app that will generate your perfect person , but it does give you the option to meet other people who might be interested in you.
S1:
S7: So when you talk to olders dating after 5060 , they don't have anybody to talk about it with. Is this normal ? Um , what do you think of my what do you think of these conversations ? Because of course , it's 2024 and we all share our text messages , you know. What do you think he's trying to tell me ? You don't have that second head to bounce an idea off if something sounds right. Or again , that feedback , because most people aren't in your situation. So that isolation in dating I think is a real is is really tough. Dating is not easy. We all know that for anybody. But not being able to discuss it , that I would say is the number one , I'll say issue of concern to me because I think that can often lead into being scammed , uh , being taken at in some way , either at a low level , being taken advantage of in some manner. And the other is technology. I think all of us have had the experience with our , especially with our our phones. You get an update , and everything that was on your screen before is no longer there. Technology is dynamic. It's always changing. And so what you might have seen on your phone the day before is not there with an update. Um , and even I'll say your desktop or laptop or one of your , um , iPads. Technology is always changing. So trying to figure out the technology and again , you know , where do you go ? Uh , excuse me. You know , it's kind of hard to roll up to the Apple Store and say , hey , I'm on Match.com , but show me how to do profile. Exactly. Because I could see it yesterday. And so I think a lot of times older adults get frustrated because it is a barrier. Well , it's.
S1: It's really interesting to me. I mean , how much of this conversation's already been about technology and how that's shaped the dating world ? Another factor , I imagine , is just mixing families with children. I think you mentioned , you know , grandchildren. I mean , that adds a lot of Complicated family dynamics , potentially to this already complicated world of dating , doesn't.
S7: It , Andrew ? It can. And what's very interesting is a lot of grandparents might have grandchildren that are dating and there is some common crossover. So often grandchildren can be allies to an older adult dater because a lot has not changed. Some , you know , again , how we access the organism.
S1: Of a. Mechanism.
S7: Mechanism. Yeah , but the dynamics of meeting a stranger and trying to see if there is a there's a common interest that's universal. Again , the challenges can be the adult children , you know , is my father going to be taken advantage of ? Is my mother going to be taken advantage of ? And just , you know , just as family dynamics can be challenging , so can watching your mother date another man that is not your father ? Mhm. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S7: That's a tough one. And often people are also concerned about legacy and the financial impact that someone might make on their legacy , their home. So you have all those factors. And again you know often people are glad to see somebody getting out there. But then what does it actually mean getting out there when this new person shows up at the dining room table or at family holidays , and my mother is enamored by this man , owe me not so much.
S1: Yes. So now , Judy , I want to kind of go to your your own story. I mean , your life is sort of paralleled your career in this aging space. Tell me more about your journey and what it was like for you before you met your husband.
S7: Well , what's interesting , I actually came to San Diego State and was in their gerontology program here because I was looking at a third career , I thought , well , what am I going to do ? Because I want to continue working. I'm going to need to continue working. So I came to San Diego State and enrolled in their gerontology program. So , so many of the things I heard and saw were about the medical facets longevity. But no one was talking about the social aspects. And about the same time I was getting a divorce. So I was now in my 50s and considered an older adult. I had my AARP card after all. So now I'm looking at what challenges do I have ? And I fortunately come from a tech background , so that wasn't a barrier. But I also realized that none of my friends were dating. You know , they were at that point all married or partnered. And so again , that's where I see the parallel. Things haven't changed so much. I was isolated , I could bounce ideas off , but no one had any real time feedback to say , oh yeah , that's normal. Or consider that a red flag. I was trying to use doing self-education , both in gerontology and in my own dating experience. And so as I as I move through that process , all the , you know , all the issues that come with dating , so much of it is around your self , you know , self-confidence because you are in a completely vulnerable situation with not only your emotions , but your mental health , your financial health , those all play into it. So fast forward , I did meet someone on eHarmony. We married and he passed it. We were happily married. It was it was a different marriage than my other marriages at an older age. He passed away a few years ago. Sorry. Thank you. And , um , you know , as you age , you realize that's a possibility. And then it does happen. And , uh , for your listeners , they know when someone dies , There is a business of dying and cleaning up an estate while you're negotiating what it means to be single again , know you're.
S1: Grieving , and then you also are going through. Yeah , it's really cold.
S7: And I'll say about two years ago I thought , you know , I want to start dating , if anything , for entertainment because I was by myself. It was post-pandemic. I was up living up in North County and I just felt really isolated. I thought , you know , conversation something. And actually , my husband and I , um , my , my current husband. Oh , my God , that sounds kind of funny. My current husband and I actually had met about 15 years ago. We through mutual friends , my husband , not I at the time , had dinner with his wife and him. It was it was.
S1: You got back in touch years later.
S7: Well , we had shared mutual friends and we were at a social function and we sat together and , um , he turned to me and said , he said , oh , I guess you didn't elope with , you know , your friend. And I said , oh , that he really was my friend. And he said , oh , okay. So he started pursuing me and I , um , you know , I was surprised I hadn't looked at him that way. He was a friend of a friend , and I had known his wife. I was acquainted with his. I was acquainted with him. And what I look back at that time , that that beginning dating , he really took a leap of faith. And what I mean by that in himself that he was he found out if I was available , if I might be interested , and then pursued me. My now husband , he was , I think was 82 at that time. He had been widowed for about five years. And when we talk about dating , that's what it looks like to put yourself out there. I could have said , no , thank you. I'm I might have I might not have been interested at the time. I thought , oh , I know him. This you know , he seems like a nice man. I didn't know where it would lead. Um , and it's been where it is. Lead is more than I ever imagined it could be. Well.
S1: I mean , congratulations. Thank you. What ? What's unique about entering a new marriage at this stage in your life ? I mean , does it does it feel different ? Absolutely.
S7: Absolutely. And in reflecting about it , everything is extra. Everything is so much more intense. Both of us know that our runway is getting shorter. You know , that's the reality. So everything is intense in the best way , in the sweetest way. The way we love our passion , our generosity , our acceptance. Because we know this literally could be the last day. We don't know that. And and when I say by intensity , in a good way , in a savoring way , how you cherish even the things that go bad. Um , yesterday he turned 84. He was sick. The plans I had for the entire day went out the door , and I was a little miffed at him getting sick , because that's a natural. And I thought , oh , that's okay , because you had this incredible day planned. And instead it was chicken soup over the dinner table. But I did set a nice table. You know , I had butter plates , the whole deal. We had a very nice evening. It's having an expectation that each meal , each outing has something to offer , something to savour. Um , whether it's walking at Balboa Park , whether it's looking for a parking spot at Balboa Park , you know , oftentimes we'll look at each other and like , oh , well , that didn't go like we planned , but we're doing it together. And that the value that I think older adults can place on having a loving relationship at possibly the end of their lives , I think is probably one of the biggest gifts in life. If you can find it and hold on to it and savor it for as long as you have.
S1: Well , Judy , it's been great having you here , and I want to thank you for sharing that your own story , as well as some of the some of your own experience. But it's really beautiful to hear about your personal story. And thanks for sharing.
S7: Oh , you are very welcome , Andrew , and I hope it inspires someone to start dating.
S1: I've been speaking with Judy Bonilla. She's a retired gerontologist here in San Diego. Judy , thanks again for being here.
S7: You're very welcome. Andrew , thank you for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm Andrew Bracken. KPBS Midday Edition airs on KPBS FM weekdays at noon , again at 8 p.m.. You can find past episodes at KPBS. Org or wherever you listen. Thanks again for listening. Have a great day.
