Exploring The 'X' in Latinx: A Conversation On Identity

Speaker 1: 00:00 Issues of language and identity are raised by exploring the ex in Latin X. Speaker 2: 00:05 It's thinking about Spanish and how the ex does or does not work with the Spanish language. Speaker 1: 00:11 I'm Maureen Kevin Hall with Jade Heinemann. This is KPBS day edition, mid day edition presents a special broadcast of a KPBS community forum on the use of the term, Latin X. Speaker 3: 00:31 When we're talking about issues that affect the Latino Latina Latinex community of the United States, it doesn't have to be either or, and I think that that's something that we tend to bump up against when we're using the term Latin X it's like now that's this blanket term, everyone must use it. And that's not the case Speaker 1: 00:48 Exploring the ex in Latin X that's ahead on midday edition. The use of the term Latin X to include both Latino and Latina is hailed as an inclusive update in some quarters, but it is an unwelcome change to others. KPBS took on this controversy last night in a community forum called exploring the ex in Latin next, a conversation on identity host, KPBS, race and equity reporter, Christina Kim and guests discussed where the term Latin X comes from the range of its meanings and the people it's meant to embrace journey of the panel discussion are Nancy Maldinado CEO of the Chicano Federation, Fernando Lopez, executive director of San Diego, LGBT pride and Ariana Ruiz professor of Chicanex studies at UC San Diego. Christina Kim starts the forum by asking each of her guests how they identify themselves and what factors led to that. She begins with Nancy Maldonado. Speaker 2: 02:01 Yeah, so I identify as Chicana and this is kind of a new, um, identity for me as I delve deeper into kind of what the term means and really identifying a lot more with my indigenous roots. Um, so Chicana for me. Um, but again, if, if the term Latina comes up, I mean, it's not offensive to me, but if my personal preference is to Speaker 4: 02:23 It, right, we're going to dig a little deeper into that. How do you identify and what choices led to you identifying the ways you do? Sure. Speaker 3: 02:32 So I identify as Chicana, Latina, and quite a lot of that has to do with space and what space I'm in. So prior to arriving to UC San Diego, I was actually an assistant professor at the university of Iowa and being at a predominantly white institution where there were very, very small number of, uh, Latino Latinex students and community members in order to have a community, a space, um, that I felt I could belong to. That's really where I, I really started, um, calling myself Latina or Latinex. Um, and I would say that coming of age in California, I was born and raised here. Uh, did all my schooling here. That's really where I am able to, or embrace more. So, uh, Chicana identity and Speaker 4: 03:20 Fernando last but not least. How do you identify? Speaker 5: 03:24 Uh, so yeah, my name is Fernando Lopez and I am, I think the only non-binary person here. So I'm holding up the Latin X for all of us. Um, but I will say I identify as a non-binary gay, former homeless youth, Jewish Mexican-American child of immigrants. Um, and Latin X is maybe somewhere in there. Um, but I grew up in El Centro, California. I've lived in Japan, [inaudible] um, I come from a family of migrant field workers. Um, and so my Mexican identity is probably very much ingrained in me. I mean, I mean, I lived in Mexico, like I can't, there's no decoupling that, um, I wasn't really brought up in a, in an environment or a family that identified with the Chicano identity. Um, but because we were Mexican, uh, and my family will fight like that till the end of the time, like you are equal, you are Mexican. Speaker 5: 04:16 And, uh, and I think that's probably, if we're talking about the ethnic identity, that's probably one of the closest things now in spaces, we talk about identity all the time, right? So that's why I say I'm a, non-binary Latin X, Mexican American first, there's all these components to who we are. Um, and we can't decouple those, you know, w regardless of what space we're in and what I appreciate about Ariana and what she said is that, you know, sometimes we might hold the name of a particular piece of our identity when we are in different spaces. And I think marginalized community members, especially, uh, if you're and live at the intersection of multiple marginalized identities, we are all, I think everyone in this panel is used to code switching in different situations, right? So, uh, that is something that I will definitely, you know, do throughout my life. So more so I say, I identify as a Mexican-American immigrant child of immigrants, but yes, I also identify as Latin X. Speaker 4: 05:14 So I can tell this is going to be a juicy conversation. We're going to get to that idea of like the different identities and how we code, switch, how we perform in different spaces. But I also just want to say that throughout this discussion, we're going to be playing brief clips from members of our community to kind of contextualize some of what our audience feels and kind of involve them since we can't all be together, just quite yet all in person. And we're going to start now actually with a clip from Ashley errands Vasquez who identifies as Latin X. Um, and she's going to tell us how she goes about, you know, using the term Latin X, using Speaker 6: 05:46 Latinex doesn't necessarily need to be used on an individual basis. Once you understand someone identity or you ask, then you can continue addressing using the pronouns that they prefer. Speaker 4: 06:01 Okay. So before we dive in, I think it's important that we take a stack and kind of all get on the same page with our audience members and just take a look at history. So let's look at the history of the different identity labels that we're really talking about, because when I was reporting, that was like, the biggest question is like, where did the term Latin X even come from? Who is inventing this term? Why is it happening that Amanda, if I could start with you, what do you know about where Latin next began? And when did you start kind of Speaker 5: 06:27 Using it? My understanding around the origins around Latin X is non trans and nonbinary folks have existed in our movement for ever in a day. I mean, this is not some sort of new thing. And I think that's part of the misconception that non-binary folks are somewhat new. It really emerged in the activist community. And some of that people, I think code as, um, in activist spaces will say, oh, it, it, it sort of formed in academia. Now I will say, I know that it took hold a lot in academic spaces, but it was Latin X or Latino, Latina non-binary and trans folks who were looking for a word that encapsulated them, that encapsulated us. And I think when we understand how gendered the word, uh, words in Spanish can be that Latina Latino did not fit folks who were gender nonconforming, gender fluid, non binary. Speaker 5: 07:19 And so I can say in the last 20 years, um, you know, I've been going to, there's a international, mostly national conference called creating change, put on by the national gay and lesbian task force. They had the Latino Institute there every single year. And there, I remember this conversation in activist spaces in, in let the next and, you know, uh, spaces where we said, well, what word are we going to use? Because we don't really have one. Um, and this term came up and folks more and more sort of embracing it in activist spaces because let's face it. If you are, if you are female identified the word Latino doesn't necessarily refer to you. You're not you as a female identified person. Aren't saying, I am a Latino. You're saying I'm a Latina. Um, and so for non binary folks, we said, well, what word is for us? Speaker 5: 08:08 And over, I can tell you an activist spaces and yes, academic spaces and more so in organizing a nonprofit spaces. And now I think more and more, we're seeing it finally take hold in media, as we've elevated the live stories, narratives, and lived experiences of trans and non binary folks, more so in the last decade, five years, a couple of years. Um, and so if it gets taken, hold that's where I've sort of seen it emerge from, and it was, it was really just about finding language that fit something that didn't fit right. There was a wanting to circle the square and we made our own shape. Uh, and I think that's what non-binary folks do. That's what LGBTQ folks do. We're not, we don't exist in a binary. Uh, and so it's about creating this additional language to express the diversity of our sexual orientation and gender identity Speaker 4: 08:59 At Deanna. Is that how you've kind of come to understand the history of this term? I mean, definitely here in the United States, it's being used in that way, but is it being used is Latin X being used differently in other places? And I know you've told me that it's got many origin stories. Speaker 3: 09:16 Yeah, I think so. When we're talking about the X and the use of the X in Latin X, if it does have various origin stories, I think when we're situating it within a us context, that's where we really see it coming from these activists circles, LGBTQ plus community. Right. Um, there is that misconception that Latin X is something that was coming from academia and is being brought out in everyone must be Latin X. And that's just what we've said is so right. Um, but I think that that's not the case when we're thinking about the use of the accents is something that, that Honda was getting at as well. We're really thinking of it as those origins of really thinking about gender, about the gender binary about it as a spectrum, but it's also a rejection of gender to a certain extent. Right. And so what we've seen is a move of the X as coming from the LGBTQ plus community. Speaker 3: 10:06 And I love that you said that nimble, like it made us, or had us thinking about ourselves or identity that, um, what would we call ourselves? Right? Because there has been a move from that to the X now being used as gender inclusive, everyone is included in there where I do think that in its origin, it was playing, messing, pushing the boundaries of gender. Whereas now it's like everyone is index. Um, to that end, the use of Latinex is not in, I'm doing of your own personal identity and how you might identify. So I can very much say I am a member of the ladder next community, but I am Latina, right. Because I see myself as a cisgender woman that that's who I am. And so I am Latina, but I can also be a member of the Latin X community. Whereas I think, um, a lot of the times it's thought of, as you're saying it wrong, you are Latin X. Everyone must be Latin X, and that's not the case. Speaker 4: 11:12 How about you, Nancy? What are you hearing from your community? Your constituents is the Latin X. And I've got to say we had a lot of respondents that also identify as Chicanex. So the X also expands. Um, what are you hearing from your community and, and the folks that you work with? So Speaker 2: 11:27 That's a great question. I think that I've also heard, um, new, so everything that, that was just mentioned into in terms of being inclusive, and that's my understanding of the word Latin X, there is the perception though that the, the term was also pointing to encourage assimilation and reduce political activism, right. By lumping us all into kind of this, this category. So I do hear that a lot, especially in the spaces where people identify as Chicano or Chicana. Um, I, I am not in a lot of spaces where she gets chicken, X, Chicana, X is, uh, is used, but, um, I understand the sentiment and the meaning behind, you know, using the X and that word too. And I think, I mean, and we'll probably naturally kind of get into this, but it's, it's also, um, understanding Spanish, right. And the word, um, when you add that X it's, it, it's not a Spanish word. Speaker 2: 12:21 And so when we're talking about people who speak Spanish, then there raises a whole lot of, um, different, um, kind of sentiments and feelings because Latin X doesn't make sense linguistically in Spanish. So then there comes the, the, you know, uh, of course, and back to your question about what I'm hearing is that it's not inclusive of Spanish speakers who identify, you know, who are native Spanish speakers and who identify as Spanish speakers. Um, and therefore it doesn't feel inclusive to them. And so, you know, there, there's all different sides of, of the kind of feeling and sentiments, which I'm sure is some of the feedback that you've received. And it really does, um, kind of activate a lot of, a lot of emotions around this word. And we hear that, right. Um, as Chicano Federation, whenever we use the term Latin X, we, we get a lot of pushback and, um, kind of questioning our identity and who we are and how we're not being true to our roots. So, um, it's a very interesting topic, but I think, you know, and like I said, we'll probably get into this naturally it's, it's thinking about Spanish and how the X does or does not work with the Spanish language. Speaker 4: 13:30 Well, we will get into that. And it's actually very much rooted because from what I heard is like people who don't like the X, because it's not rooted in the Spanish language for some folks, it's like, that's the decolonial practice of like, engaging with indigeneity, but then for other folks, it's like, no, this is how we get colonized by Anglos. So it's, it's interesting. Cause I hear like two tension points that might actually agree, but they're, they see it very differently. But I do think that before we even go forward, Nancy, it's important to just define what we mean by Chicano and why that's such a particular identity. So rooted here in the front data. So rooted here in San Diego, can you just explain what it means and kind of how it is different, similar to Latino and how it fits within Latina? Speaker 2: 14:14 Yeah, so again, um, I think a lot of people identify, um, Chicano or Chicana with more of a political and cultural statement and more of a political and cultural identity. Um, you know, my understanding of the word is, is to have him back, you know, or Mexican origins, but before in, in the us. But again, that I think has also shifted, right? And then there's been kind of this reemergence. So when I was growing up, like that's not how I identify. That's not how my family identified. Um, and what I've seen and just kind of the work that I do is this re-emergence of identifying with the term Chicano or Chicana. And I think it is a lot along the, um, the climate and how people are rejecting colonialism and the words and the identities that they associate with the colonialism. Speaker 1: 15:07 This is, is KPBS midday edition. I'm Maureen Cavenaugh with Jade. Heinemann our discussion about language labels and identity continues and the KPBS community forum exploring the ex inlet. Next KPBS reporter. Christina Kim is joined in this discussion by Nancy Maldonado of the Chicano Federation, Fernando Lopez of San Diego, LGBT pride and UC San Diego professor Ariana Ruiz. In this part of the discussion. Christina asks the panel. If they think the word Latin next is more inclusive and why some field, the word doesn't speak to their own experiences. Speaker 4: 15:45 I do want to play another clip for one of our audience members. Her name is Aneesa Durham she's Micato [inaudible]. She says she presents as black. And she says, she feels the word Latina just doesn't fit her experiences or her identities. And this is what she had to say for us. Speaker 6: 16:00 I think for me, at least like being central American and growing up in San Diego, there's not a lot of Niigata Winston's, there's not a lot of El Salvadorians. So most of like my influence was just my family, whereas other Latinos or Latin X, um, people identifying people, um, at least here in San Diego, it's mostly Mexican Americans. So there's more of that cultural influence and more people that resonate with you. Um, and I think I didn't have that. So that's probably why I don't really identify with the term Latina because I feel like, well, that's not who I am. That's not my culture. We're Speaker 4: 16:40 Hearing there. You know, sometimes these identity terms, they just don't fit, but I want to, I want to hear from you Anna, like, why do these labels get created? Why, why are they important? Why are we using them in our lives? Speaker 3: 16:53 Well, I think one of the important things, um, in hearing that clip is the fact that she is talking about her experience in San Diego as one that is very much a Mexican experience surrounded by, uh, predominantly, um, folks that might identify as Mexican. And so even there, we have like a Mexican identity, uh, Chicano Chicana Chicanex identity, uh, versus, uh, Latina Latinex identity. Right. Um, and I, again, to kind of go back to an earlier point, it doesn't have to be necessarily one that you can encompass various number of identities. And I think that's one of the really great things about it, the way that we also can adapt and change and shift into an identity over time. And I say that as someone who coming of age, working class background, family immigrated to the United States from Mexico, very much like the memo's experience. Speaker 3: 17:46 If I were to ask my parents, you know, how do you identify there would say Mexicano, right? That would be the extent of it. Latino Latina Latinex, Chicanex there to them is something that just doesn't even come to mind. Right. And so actually it was me going off to college at UC Santa Cruz, where I first understood the term and some of the political aspects, the history that's attached to it. And it's one that I very much saw myself aligned with. And so again, that's that shift into moving into Chicanex that then going off to the Midwest had me really thinking about, well, how do I frame community? How do I create it? And so that really gets to the way that identity is very personal. Um, it's something that I, you know, I always go into the classroom and say, look, I'm not here to tell you what you are or what you, aren't rather, I'm here to give you the information and it's up to you to, to decide how you want to call yourself how you see yourself within, uh, these various trumps. Speaker 3: 18:45 Uh, but I want you to have the history and the understanding behind it as well, so that you know, that when you are identifying as Latinex, this is kind of, uh, the historical trajectory or the communities that you're speaking to, or see yourself a part of. Right. And so that's really where I think, um, we can start to think about the importance of identity and naming ourselves versus a term that might come from the outside onto the community itself. And that's where you get a little bit of pushback, especially with the term like Hispanic. Um, that's considered much more conservative. And again, I'm speaking about it within a us English context, because of course, if we're talking about Spanish language by mobile, and this is something that is used very much, um, within, especially, um, Spanish media, uh, you also get any spinal identity, uh, if we're talking about it in Spanish. And so when we're thinking about it, like this English Hispanic term, it's one that really comes into play in the 1970s, it's tied to the census, it's tied to a us government counting. Um, and that's really where you get that push from Hispanic into a term that's coming much more from the community, uh, like Chicano Latino and its current manifestations as Chicanex and Latinex. Speaker 4: 20:00 Right? So, so much of it seems to be rooted almost in political action and being seen by the government so that you're counted in the census, but also in political mobilization. So ones that are coming from the community and also how maybe campaigns are reaching out to you. Nancy, you kind of brought this up when you first said what you were hearing, that your community wasn't responding to the term as an apolitical term. Can you tell me, is that, can you just expand on that? Do you see Latin X as a political term or a nonpolitical one personally? Speaker 2: 20:29 I don't see it as a political term, but I do hear that a lot from the community. And, and, and, and again, I think in Vienna, I think you've touched on this. It's very generational, right? And the, the perceptions and the emotions that it, like, I can see it across the board in terms of what the response is and what the reaction is. And so there are people who do see it as a political term personally. No I don't. Um, but it does bring into question the assimilation and is, is this a term to, to move us more to assimilate and to reject our indigenous roots again, personally? No, I don't believe that, but I do hear that a lot. Speaker 4: 21:08 Fernando, do you see Latin X as a political term that is actually mobilizing people? Speaker 5: 21:15 So I love everything I'm like in love with Adina Nancy and like everything that you were saying, um, you ever want to see my dad off, like watching him fill out the census every 10 years and have to check the white box. And so the personal is political. We can't decouple those things. And so even the fact that so many of us do not identify in my generation younger, like I'm about to turn 40. I mean, my generation or younger, there's a lot of us that don't identify as Chicano because like, even though there was a huge movement, right before we were born, the systems of white supremacy broke that tether. Like they broke that chain of communication and education. And we also understand that Chicano doesn't necessarily like resonate with the rest of Latin America, um, or the Latin diaspora and Hispanic diaspora. Speaker 5: 22:04 And I think in spaces, we have to, well, we should, in my opinion, be mindful of the diversity of culture and lived experiences that we are bringing in. And so we have to be cognizant of Brazilians and Chileans and, you know, every south American, Latin American country that comes to, to be a part of our community here in San Diego or our LGBT community. So the, yes, it is political in that our existence has been politicized that we have been systematically, uh, severed from normative systems of support through systems of white supremacy. And that's something that we are still combating to this day. So is, is the term Latin X intentionally a political tool? No, it was about claiming personally identity, but if you are, if you're a, um, someone from a marginalized community, your mere existence is political and existing as your authentic self is a political pushback to the systems of white supremacy that we are all combating every day in our lives. Speaker 4: 23:06 Well, and I, and I want to hear from all of you, but I also feel like Latina in general gets treated as a political monolith as if there's always a certain way that a Latino and Mexican-American Chicano is going to vote Nancy in your experience. Like how do you see that even with the people that you're working with and how do you think maybe political campaigns should rethink the labels they're using for when they're doing this outreach or thinking about voting demographics? Speaker 2: 23:31 Yeah, I mean, I think we just saw in the last election, right? I mean, whoever had that conception, I mean that completely debunked what anybody thought of, of how we all vote or how we all, um, which political affiliation we all have. Um, and think it goes back to, um, what the, what the community member was just mentioning. Um, a lot of it is regional, right? And here in San Diego, we, a lot of us like it is highly Mexican American or Mexican or, you know, having a genomic background. Um, and so I think the, the issues, um, that are important to us and regionally too, right, we're a border community. So we're just going to have a lot of different, um, it like our issues are different than someone who identifies even as Mexican American, but live somewhere else. So I think, I think it's just understanding that, um, the individuality that comes with it, but also that a lot of the issues and topics that are important to us are regional. Speaker 2: 24:28 Um, and addressing that, um, on more of a personal level, rather than lumping us all into one category and kind of assuming that this is how we're all going to vote, because we all think the same about immigration. We don't, we have a different perspective because we live on a board at a border region and we see the impacts, but we also, you know, we see the benefits we, so our perception is going to be very different. And I think that for me was sometimes what was missing in this last, um, election and, and the way in which, um, candidates even spoke right on the national level of the way that they spoke about the issues was very kind of general. Um, and, and I just don't think we can do that anymore. So Speaker 4: 25:08 Something I'm also hearing from all of you and Ariana brought it up, it's this, this tension between what we named ourselves and what we get named. And I think a lot of that tension comes around with Latin X. So I do want to play another clip from Michael and Zach. He's pretty skeptical about the usage, the word Latin X in general, but he's happy to call anyone that wants to be called that and respects it. But let's hear from Michael about why he personally, doesn't like Latin X Speaker 5: 25:33 It's political pandering. I think it's, um, it feels disingenuously used, uh, by certain groups, uh, to either be politically or culturally sensitive. I respect the efforts that I know that PBS and the union Tribune and other new stations and elected officials use it. Uh, but I think, I think it's, it's highly misguided. Uh, it doesn't come from our community whatsoever. Speaker 4: 25:59 Some pretty strong feelings there. I mean, a recent poll indicates that only 3% of people use the phrase Latin X to identify themselves. Nancy. Why do you think the number is so low and why is there this hesitancy in the first place? Speaker 2: 26:11 You know, I think the reasons are varied. I guess the part that I don't understand, and I'm still trying to kind of, um, understand is, is the anger or the offensiveness that comes sometimes with it, right when the people take it almost as, as an insult. Um, and I, I think that's the part that I struggle with because I do believe that everyone should self identify, however they feel most comfortable and that, you know, I personally will respect what anybody wants to identify as. Um, but I think that sometimes, um, that's the part that I don't understand and I wish I could have those conversations about why is this, why does this make you so angry? Um, because I, I genuinely don't understand that. And I think I saw some of that in the clip, right? Like there, there's just the emotion that comes with it. And, um, I guess I don't have that emotion to any word. And so I, I struggled to understand that Speaker 4: 27:05 Feminine though, is this some, like an opinion you've run across this kind of this anger, this kind of, I don't want it refusal. And how do you have a conversation around it when that begins? And do we have to be intentional and more specific when we're saying we're reaching out to the community? Speaker 5: 27:21 One of the things that we're not talking about right now that I think we should be talking about is colonialist views of systems of patriarchy and what that means for folks where the anger I think comes from, not that it doesn't come from women as well, but I predominantly see it from men predominantly see it from older men. Um, it comes from, uh, machismo, but let's also not pretend that much smell is only owned by Latinos. Okay. Like toxic masculinity exists. Um, and when we understand that maleness co with maleness comes power and there's a power dynamic in that. And so when you're suddenly asking particularly men to reject their maleness for one word for one vowel, like you're suddenly challenging the entire system. And I'm sorry, but that is absolutely 100% what people are trying to do. And that's what feminists are trying to do. We're trying to say that the, the systems of patriarchal white supremacy in colonias colonialist behavior is no longer acceptable that these systems of oppression and the way that women are treated, the way that trans and non-binary folks have been victimized, persecuted and killed like our communities, whether it's women, LGBTQ folks, trans folks, non binary folks have been persecuted bill and nice and murdered throughout history throughout colonialist history. Speaker 1: 28:54 This is KPBS mid day edition. I'm Maureen Kavanaugh with Jade, Heinemann in the final part of the KPBS community forum on exploring the X in Latin X host. Christina Kim asks her panelists, Nancy Maldonado, Fernando Lopez, and Ariana Ruiz. Why identity is important to marginalized groups, both internally and externally. And why outside perception of a group may change over time? Well, Speaker 4: 29:23 I want to actually read something that came in through, through Facebook and, and have your experts, um, respond to her. So this question comes from Quinn McCann's who submitted on Facebook. And she said, quote, growing up as a white girl in the sixties, in San Diego, what I knew and thought of as Mexican origin grew into Chicano, I thought it was just a way of preferring to be identified in a certain way as expressed by those actually within the community. Now I'm more confused with Latin X. Speaker 5: 29:49 I wanted to go back to what I was gonna say, cause it's actually connected to this, which is progress continues to be made, right? Language evolves, society evolves, we evolve as human beings. And so the, the way we refer to ourselves, whether it's Chicano, Chicana and not being inclusive, right, or even for us in the LGBTQ community, um, they're, you know, a hundred years ago, plus we didn't really have a term for ourselves. And then the external term that was used for us that, um, was pathological that was seen as an illness was homosexual. And we, as a community ended up using the term gay, which was sort of an epithet, but then we sort of reclaimed it. We owned it and we rejected the epithet. And uh, and now you see more and more LGBTQ folks. The cue being for, we have changed language has evolved and changed. Speaker 5: 30:35 And so I've been able to witness that in both the Latino communities and the gay community. And I say only those two words, meaning knowing how much they have bloomed and blossomed and, uh, over the decades. So now we have lesbian, gay, bisexual, intersex questioning asexual allied in, in the list goes on and on. As we understand the depths of gender and the depths of sexual orientation. And so Latin X is a part of that continuum. It is a part of the continuum of understanding gender as, uh, as non-binary, as being more than just two things. It's more than just Latino Latina. It is one way that we are understanding us, right? Words are invented by people. And each one of those letters is a symbol that represents a sound and that X has become the X and Latinex is a character. It's a symbol. Speaker 5: 31:25 And it means more than the sound now, right? To Arianna's point it, that X means something to an entire community and the intent is to be inclusive. And so I understand how confusing Latino, Latino, Chicano, your body, CWA, or Chilean or Mexican, you know, there's so many ways of being I'm Holly skin. I'm, Chabala, I'm from Japan. Like, you know, well, let's get down like real nitty gritty. Um, and, and the same thing with the LGBT community, the spectrum of identities. And so it's gonna be messy. We're gonna make mistakes and that's going to be okay because we are going to continue to learn new words and new ways to express our ethnicity or cultural heritage. The ways that we resonate with that cultural heritage or have been severed with it, the way that we like hone in and are harmonizing with our own genders and sexual orientations, Latin X is this moment in time. Speaker 5: 32:22 Uh, you know, for however many decades, it is, that is where we're at with a certain segment of folks. Obviously there's a diversity of opinion, but I love what KPBS is doing with the UT is doing what Ariana is talking about, which is, you know, what we, as institutions we'll use, degender gendered language, uh, state of California is and gendering their language, um, in, in elected bodies. And in government bodies, you see more and more institutions getting rid of gender from their language. And so Latin X is a part is a component of that. And so that's where we are in this moment. We're going to get it wrong, but I love that KPBS and UT and these others are saying, but tell us how you identify. And we're going to respect that. Tell us how you identify. And we're going to honor that I'm not going to call Nancy Latin. Next. I know she's Latina. She's shared her pronouns with me. I know that she's Chicana. Like I know that she's identifying culturally as a Chicano woman. So why would I not honor her cha Chicana identity? Of course I am. Am I going to call her Latin X? No, but may I use the term Latin next to refer to an umbrella term in a situation if I feel it's appropriate? Absolutely. Don't be afraid to get it wrong, to still be mean about it. Speaker 4: 33:32 So you did bring up something that actually another listener is bringing up, which is this idea of, you know, specificity and the desire for specificity. And so my Elvanto on YouTube said this today, quote, as a Mexican American, the word land next does not address the important issues that affect my Mexican community. It's become a hodgepodge of other Latin cultures. So for, for, for Maya, it sounds like Latin X is not specific enough and it's kind of diluting the work that they want to see in their community, Nancy or Adiana, what would you respond to Maya? Who's kind of just grappling with that. I mean, I Speaker 3: 34:07 Think that in that case, if we're talking about a particular issue that is specifically, um, attached to the Mexican, Mexican American community, then you wouldn't use Latin X and that's fine too. Right. Um, I think that when we're talking about issues that affect the Latino Latina Latinex community in the United States, you can use Latinex, right? Like that's fine as well. It doesn't have to be either or right. And I think that that's, um, something that we, we tend to sort of bump up against when we're using the term Latin X it's that it's like, now that's this blanket term. Everyone must use it. And it's, it's, that's not the case. Um, I think it's also important to consider that the use of terminology you, you want to use what makes sense for the people in the community that you're working with, that you're talking to. Um, and again, that also means that you don't dismiss terms because they just don't match up with your experience. Right? Because when we are talking about Lepine that it's, it's much more of a [inaudible] of a plurality to it, because there are so many different diverse experiences that are attached to it. So something important to keep in mind. So we Speaker 4: 35:17 Have another listener question, and this one is this one's for Nancy. So Jackie Gonzalez has a very specific question about the recent history of these terms. And she asks what happened to the Chicano Chicana leadership after the sixties and seventies, civil rights movement. Is this why we're having this conversation right now? What Speaker 2: 35:33 Happened to the leadership? I mean, they're still here. They're still very much here. Um, but I think it's like everything, right. It evolves. And, and, um, I mean, I know so many people that still identify as Chicano Chicana that were part of that movement. And that's, for me, those are the people that I've sat with to understand the history, to understand why they identify what this identity means to them. And I think it just goes back to just everything that had been on Fernando, we're saying it's, it's respecting what people identify as for whatever their reasons are. It's it comes down to respect. And I, you know, when I sit down to conversations, I had a conversation yesterday and she started by saying, is it Hispanic? Cause it, Latina is it. And I told her exactly how I, I self identify and she asked, can I ask you why? Speaker 2: 36:22 Of course, that we had that conversation. Um, but yeah, no, the, the, the Chicano Chicana leaders they're still here, um, nothing happened to them. They are still very much active. Um, and I know that I, uh, call on them a lot, um, in, in the work that I do to, to help understand the roots particularly, um, when it comes to the topic of being inclusive of indigenous cultures and civilizations, they are the ones who helped to educate me and a lot of the people that I work with. Um, so I, I don't know if I got that question, right, but they're there at least in San Diego, they are still here and they're still very active, a Speaker 5: 37:00 Hundred percent agree in some of it is evolution. And I go back to what I said earlier about their systems of white supremacy that sever us from these pathways to continuing that legacy of understanding our cultural heritage. Um, and we also have to understand that, yes, we're predominantly Mexican here in San Diego, but we are also a hub of immigration, um, and a melting pot. And so I hear folks when they say that, you know, if I'm Bolivian, CU Cuban, Dominican, like the, these don't necessarily resonate with, you know, the term Chicano doesn't necessarily resonate with me. And also how underfunded were so many of these Chicano, um, organizations or institutions that then were not able to do the outreach and keep a lot of that education going. A lot of that was systems of white supremacy. Um, and then the other piece of that as well is, uh, sorry, it was evolution. It was the, the severance. Um, and now I lost the other point again, sorry, I'm just having too much fun. Speaker 4: 37:59 I'm going to ask Nancy this. Cause I think maybe what Jackie was trying to ask is like, where is the conversation with Chicano leadership now around these terms around Chicano meetup? Like what you're a leader in the community. So what, when we're at the, when you're at the table, where is the conversation now? And what's the future of that conversation? Speaker 2: 38:18 Yeah. So I think it goes back to it being generational, right? It depends on who we're talking about. And I think that the people that were very active in the Chicano movement will identify very strongly with that term. And, um, you, you will never move them away from that. Which, which again, it's, so it's, it's much more of a political and cultural statement to them. Um, and so, you know, I, I, I have seen a reemergence of that term and people identifying as Chicano and Chicana, um, which I think again, speaks to the political climate. So, um, I hope that that, that, that term continues to be used and continues to, um, to hold some of that weight because I think it's so powerful. And, and when we understand the history behind that, the word, I, I think that, I mean, certainly it's something that I hope that never gets lost in why I've chosen to identify as Chicana after never having identified as it growing up my entire life. So I hope I got that answer. And I remember the other part, Speaker 5: 39:21 Which was to that, like, so Nancy you're, you're finally claiming that word now. And so, like, I hear that so many so often in communities where people come out as non-binary or trans or LGBT later in life, because they didn't understand the connection. Right. We were severed from that. And the other, the point that I was going to make is I came from the generation that attempted to assimilate, and there are generations of us that attempted to assimilate. Like, I don't have very much of an accent left, like that was intended, that was designed by my parents, right? No Spanish in the house, only at grandma's. And then she would still get yelled at like, um, and so there was this very real attempt by a lot of immigrant communities to disperse, to not get otherwise ourselves and to assimilate in language and culture. Speaker 5: 40:06 And that was a survival mechanism that the Latino community had to do that LGBT community members had to do. And so I am also seeing this new generation of folks and newer generations of folks wanting to hold on to the cultural identities that our immigrant parents and grandparents severed with intentionality to try to have us live out this American dream. Now, you know, then our generations and younger are seeing how that didn't always work and we still face discrimination. And so now we've assimilated and lost touch with our culture. And so many of us are now trying to hold onto that and with a different level of integrity to our cultural heritage than I've seen in a very long time. So I am seeing a resurgence of Chicano, um, in, in a lot of LGBTQ spaces as well. I mean, I really, really am. And we just hosted the first pride event in Barrio Logan. Um, and that was like, you know, amazing people wanted to be there and be fully Latino, Latinex, Chicano, and like, and celebrate pride and be exactly who we are. And it was a thing of beauty. Speaker 4: 41:06 This is going to be our final comment from the audience, but I think it really speaks to what we've been talking about in terms of that one eraser and to this, this idea of like generational difference. And so Vanessa Navitus on Facebook says, I agree with Fernando Latin X or Latino, which we haven't even talked about today. And you can, someone will elaborate is to be more inclusive, which I agree with the many older generations are very, almost threatened with this term because they feel their, and identifiers are being homogenized to the term Latin X and they don't agree with it. What would you say to those who think that this is just a phase or a marketing term created by non Latino, Hispanic corporations to sell Speaker 5: 41:46 Summer came from a here, the concern it's not where it came from. And I think Adiana, and Nancy both touched on, we all see some performative BS happening all over the place. Right. We know when, as Latinos were being marketed to by capitalism, like we see where they're trying to get our dollars. And we see that as people, we see that as Latinos, Latino Latinex. So I'm not here for it. And so for me personally, um, I look at what is the depth of programming that they are doing? What is the reality behind it? Because whether it's academia, whether it's journalism, um, whether it's, you know, a business or for-profit, if I see the term Latin X, heck if I see Mexican, if I, whatever it is that I see, I want to know, where are you putting your dollars? How are you paying people? Speaker 5: 42:32 You know, are you actually investing in the Latino and the LGBT community? Or do you just want our money? And you scratch the surface a little bit and I think you can find out. And so, you know, is it SDSU in or a UCFC investing in a chicken ex uh, Chicanex uh, studies program. Okay. What is the authenticity there? I don't know the full depth of audio on his story and what her struggle is like and how much she's fighting the administration. There may be not, maybe she's fully embraced, but I know that wasn't always the case. So you, I think any time we're entering a space, was it built by us? Was it built with us? Was it built by and for us, or is it somebody else putting a sticker on the outside and hoping that, you know, we swipe our credit card somewhere. Speaker 1: 43:17 Thanks for joining this special midday edition broadcast of the KPBS community forum, exploring the ex in-lab next. The show was hosted by KPBS race and equity reporter, Christina Kim, and featured guests, Nancy Maldonado of the Chicano Federation, Fernando Lopez of San Diego, LGBT pride and UC San Diego professor Ariana Ruiz. The show was produced by Harrison Pitino for additional resources, visit kpbs.org.