‘Costly mistake’ could delay Pure Water sewage recycling system
S1: The price tag goes up on San Diego's Pure Water Project.
S2: Being a cynical City Hall reporter , I'd say typically it's the ratepayers who ended up sort of paying for these things.
S1: I'm Maureen CAVANAUGH with Jade Heineman. This is KPBS Midday Edition. The new Carlsbad Police Public Engagement Commission may not be enough.
S2: It doesn't have enough power behind it , not enough to keep the whole law enforcement responsible or accountable.
S1: A plan for growth and walkability could transform Mira mesa and a conversation about the spirit of soul food. That's ahead on Midday Edition. City leaders are trying to get to the bottom of what's being called a costly mistake , which may delay San Diego's ambitious pure water project. Construction of a sewage pump station off Marina Boulevard near Fryers Road keeps getting flooded , apparently due to a miscalculation of the amount of underground water in the area. Engineers say they need to build a dam to protect the sewage pump construction , adding $20 million to the project. The pure water system is aimed at recycling city wastewater into drinkable water and has been scheduled for completion by 2035. And joining me is San Diego Union Tribune reporter David Garrick. David , welcome.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1:
S2: It takes the sewage as it's heading to what's now the Point Loma , a wastewater treatment plant. And it stops it and it's going to then reroute it up a pipeline through lots of like Linda Vista and Claremont and those neighborhoods to a water purification facility that the city's building and the western edge of Miramar.
S1:
S2:
S3: An initial.
S2: Study had shown that if they pumped out water , that that would solve the problem. And it turns out that initial study appears to be wrong. And they've been pumping water out since , I guess , March , and they just can't get enough water out to actually do the construction. So they're going to have to shift gears and spend a bunch of money and slow the project down significantly to build what's being called a dam. But one of the city engineers described it more as like a bathtub , where you're going to build this bathtub and then put the thing you're building in the center of the bathtub. So the walls of the bathtub are like a circular dam.
S1: Tell us more about this $20 million bathtub the city is planning.
S2: So you're basically it's sort of a rudimentary idea , but if you build the walls high enough , the water will splash up against them and bounce back instead of going into the site where they're planning to build this this pump station.
S1: But even the manager on site says it's not foolproof , right ? No.
S2: I mean , he implied that he was highly confident , but he I guess he doesn't want to guarantee that it's going to work 100%. But I think the greater concern is not that it'll fail , although that's possible. It's more just the amount of money it's costing and the amount of time it's going to delay things. Because , you know , pure water is almost like a ballet , a choreographed ballet , where there's ten different parts of it being built simultaneously and they sort of have to finish together. And if one part is delayed , they'll probably be delays on the other parts , which will create cost overruns and problems on those parts of the process.
S1:
S2: And this particular pump station was going to be 110 million , and now it's going to be 130. And it sounds like that number might even grow more.
S1:
S2: And so the question is , is that consultant sort of on the hook ? Should they pay the city damages ? Apparently , the city is studying and analyzing that. Now , they don't want to say for sure that that consultant is at fault , because I guess that's a big step to take.
S1:
S2: It's certainly possible that there will be a penalty paid by someone involved in the analysis process , but if not , it'll end up going to the sewage and water ratepayers that of the city , which about 275,000 people. Most most of your listeners are probably in that category.
S1: So you're saying this ballet choreography of the whole project , if one part of it is stalled , the whole thing is stalled.
S2: And so you need the sewage to be pumped up into these pipelines to get it to the purification plant. So it's all connected and interdependent. So I'm not saying every individual thing could slow things down , but any time there's a slowdown in one part of the chain , it could. Put other parts in jeopardy and force a contractor up the line to not do something because that can't be done until things farther down the line get accomplished.
S1: Now , this is an enormous endeavor by this city.
S2: One , water independence. The city is frustrated by imported water constantly going up in price , especially with us being living in the desert and facing a drought. And secondly , the city does not have the point. Loma wastewater treatment plant is not adequate to treat the wastewater. And the federal government says that it can't continue to operate without major upgrades , except they've given the city a waiver because the city has agreed to do this , to build this pure water sewage purification system.
S1:
S2: On the other hand , 20 , 35 is 13 years. So I suppose that's that's possible. I think the goal is to get the first phase done in the next three or four years and then phase two would start later in the decade. If I were gambling on it , I would guess probably it won't be 20 , 35 will probably be a few years after that.
S1: I've been speaking with San Diego Union-Tribune reporter David Garrick. David , thank you. Thanks.
S2: Thanks.
S4: The Nationwide calls for police reforms and oversight grew to a yell after the 2020 murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police. In response , some departments have invested in community engagement to help build trust with the people they serve. Carlsbad Police , for example , is creating a community police engagement commission to do just that. The problem is that most of those efforts don't address police accountability , biases or reforms. Activists want to see more. One of those activist is Yusef Miller , co-founder of the North County Equity and Justice Coalition. Yusef , welcome.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S4: So in response to those nationwide calls for police reforms and oversight , Carlsbad is creating this Community Police Engagement Commission.
S2: And places like Carlsbad think that they don't need to be accountable or or transparent in their policing. We could just ask Mr. Cox Harshaw , who was arrested under a very brutal circumstance , when it could have went a totally different way if de-escalation was involved. So no no community is immune to to having a George Floyd like the worst case scenario or even the the other just problematic arrest that we've seen throughout the nation.
S4:
S2: Carlsbad is a diverse community. It has the very affluent and it has the people who live paycheck to paycheck. And the answers that it will get from each community is very different. So we'll have people call into Carlsbad from the affluent community and say there's no problem at all whatsoever. Why are we even talking about this ? But they tend to be of whites and they have an upper class income. And then when you go to the people of color of Carlsbad , lower class income , the answer is totally different. There's something that needs to be done. They have a different experience with law enforcement and that is not appreciated across the scale. They're from the the upper class scale to the quote unquote , lower class scale. It's almost that we're speaking two different languages. So the people who are most affected by any any negative , whether it's educational , whether it's employment , whether it's policing , we need to listen to the people who are most affected and most impacted by it.
S4: When I asked the Carlsbad Police Department how they're working to address police accountability , for example , and oversight , they said , quote , We encourage and maintain an open dialogue with our community and advocacy groups so we can better understand their concerns and work together toward solutions. We understand strong relationships and transparency are essential to effective community policing , end quote.
S2: And he has been very engaged in the community. He's been discussing with activist groups such as CSC , the Carlsbad Equality Coalition , the North San Diego chapter of the NAACP , the North County Equity and Justice Coalition , and so on. He has been really receptive to that and really engaging and not just in a superficial way. He's really been trying to find solutions , whether it's in policymaking , which is very important. We need something in black and white to hold officers accountable and something that the department can can take a bite out of and really get involved in. But also with with the city council members. We have PREA Bob Patel , who has been very engaging as well , and he's been on the ground discussing during hours after hours correspondence on how we can move this needle forward. And also Councilmember Blackburn , same thing. So when it comes to the rhetoric , we get a lot of the rhetoric and it's in a lot of times the rubber meets the road. Sometimes it doesn't. But that's what compromise is all about. And we work together to make sure that we get this done. So the reason why sometimes it doesn't really the rubber doesn't meet the road. A lot of times it has to do with politics. A lot of times it has to do with just the momentum that we need in a place like Carlsbad.
S4: And as you mentioned , you know , this commission will give the public an opportunity to give recommendations on policies. What else do you think needs to happen to.
S2: I mean , of course , they'll always point to the police manual. They'll they'll they'll point to their rules and regulations in Carlsbad. But I think that there needs to be a for example , if I go back to Cox ha saw no one broke the rules in the car store. If you don't know about that , that problematic arrest he was having , either a mental health issue or maybe a inebriation issue. But the medical personnel , they handled it really great. And then when law enforcement came , it got violent. So but they didn't break any rules. That doesn't mean that the law enforcement policy is good. It means that the broken if if the policy in in the medical sphere can have a nonviolent confrontation , and then when law enforcement shows up , it turns violent. Then there's a problem with the process. Not the problem with Qatar style in any courts horror that are out there. So we need accountability for those kinds of problematic arrest , problematic engagements. We need people to know and officers to know that this will not be tolerated in the post George Floyd era. And we're moving forward in a way that community is is engaged in its policing reform.
S4:
S2: It absolutely is. We need an actual oversight. We need a buy in from the city , from the mayor , from the council , from the police to and from the community in a way that it looks it looks like a product that will protect the community and protect the officers. The officers are part of the community. We want everyone protected. We want everyone to go home safely. We want everyone to have courtesy when they're interacting with law enforcement. So there's a lot of work to do. This is a start , but we need to really kick in the gear and make sure that we we develop a product that works for both sides.
S4: I've been speaking with Yousef Miller , co-founder of the North County Equity and Justice Coalition. Yousef , thank you so much.
S2: Thank you for having me , Jay.
S1: This is KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Maureen CAVANAUGH with Jade Heineman. The U visa is a special visa specifically for immigrants who are victims of crimes in the United States. But police departments play a key role in granting the visas. KPBS border reporter Gustavo Solis says some departments are more likely to help than others.
S3: The U. Visa was created in 2008 to encourage undocumented immigrants to report crimes to the police in exchange for the cooperation of undocumented immigrants who are victims of certain crimes can get a visa and a work permit. Paola Gonzalez is an immigration attorney who has been helping people get U visa since they first became available.
S5: It's supposed.
S1: To give some kind of reassurance.
S6: For people who are.
S5: Undocumented that they can report a crime.
S3: But advocates say that a person's chances of actually getting a U visa depend way too much on where the crime occurred and not enough on whether they deserve one or not. A big reason for this is the role police agencies play in the process. To apply for a U visa , applicants first need to get a certification form signed by a local police department. This form verifies that a crime took place and that the applicant cooperated with the investigation.
S5: They're just one step on this. They're not making the decision on the U. Visa , but it is a requirement.
S6: For the U.
S5: If you don't have a certification , you're not going to get a U.S..
S3: Tessa Cabrera is an immigration attorney who's been helping people apply for the U. Visa since 2016. She says the police departments have way too much influence over the application process.
S1: They essentially hold all the cards as far as the first step goes. Without step one , there's no step two.
S3: Cabrera has noticed at the San Diego Police Department denies more certification request and other jurisdictions.
S5: I mean , I think generally there's.
S1: Just been a more noticeable uptick in denial rates from CPD. It does seem like CPD is an outlier as far as the other agencies in San Diego.
S3: Data requested under the California Public Records Act shows that CPD has a higher certification denial rate than any other law enforcement agency in the county. Between 2017 and 2020 , CPD denied 40% of certification requests the agency processed. During the same time period. The Chula Vista Police Department denied just 18% , and the San Diego County Sheriff's Department denied 21%. But why ? Cabrera says that it has something to do with SD PD's record retention policy.
S1: Most recently , we had a case denied because CPD said they could not verify the victim's level of.
S5: Helpfulness and cooperation with.
S1: The investigation solely based on the fact that their.
S5: Report had been purged.
S3: That specific case was from a domestic violence incident in 2001 , seven years before the U. Visa was first offered as DPD denied an original request because the case records had been purged. So Cabrera found court records showing that her client had filed a temporary restraining order after talking with the police that CPD still denied the certification request without the U. Visa. That woman had virtually no chance of getting legal status in the U.S.. It.
S2: It.
S1: Just kind of returns her to living under the shadows.
S3: ESDP captain Jeff Jordan says that the department keeps records from as far back as 2004. That's when they switched from a paper system to a computer system. He says the main reason why most applicants get denied is because people fill them out incorrectly or they just don't provide enough documentation.
S2: People should be aware , and I hope the story conveys that , that these packets have to be complete. They have to have the appropriate documentation. And there is some level of responsibility for folks to provide these documents.
S3: Jordan believes that ESDP is high denial rate is largely due to the fact that the department receives multiple applications from the same individuals and they get rejected over and over again.
S2: If they're not complete. It's going to lead to multiple denials. I think sometimes within our agency we're documenting those each time they're denied.
S3: Cabrera says it's unreasonable to expect immigrant crime victims to hold on to police records dating back 20 years.
S5: I mean , I think.
S1: It sends a.
S5: Pretty demoralizing.
S1: Message , honestly , because and specifically in this case , she was a victim in 2001. The visa wasn't even an option at that point. So when she comes forward , then.
S5: She it's just.
S1: Simply too late. And she she didn't know she needed to.
S5: Go to CPD and request.
S1: A copy of her police report to make sure she kept it for 21 years in order to get to this point.
S3: Jordan says that CPD will start putting more information about the U. Visa on the department's website. The information will include a list of qualifying crimes and what kind of documentation officers are looking for. Gustavo Solis , KPBS News.
S1: The pandemic has taken a toll on the mental and emotional health of California school age kids. Everyone from teachers in the classroom to the U.S. Surgeon General have spoken out about the impacts of school closures on the social and emotional growth in children. So the State Department of Education is launching a new program in hopes of attracting 10,000 new mental health professionals to school campuses. This is California state superintendent of Schools Tony Thurmond.
S2: Our students deserve and need to have more support , and we're grateful to have resources that we can use to help them. We recognize that it will take time to build out many of these resources. It's why we've embarked on such a big number.
S1: The program includes $20,000 grants to graduate students who complete their advanced degrees and work in K through 12 schools. Now , joining me is Amy Bentley , a professor and developmental psychologist who researches adolescent well-being at the University of California , San Diego. And Amy , welcome to the show.
S6: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
S1:
S6: Those of us working with adolescents have seen a rise in depression , anxiety and suicidality over the last ten years. And so we've been advocating for this for a long time. And the pandemic kind of moved those numbers and shifted those numbers so that the community at large became more aware of the issues. In 2019 , one in five California Youth Considered suicide. And the California student to counselor ratio ranked near the bottom nationally. So we were seeing these rising rates of anxiety and depression among children and youth , and yet we had one of the lowest ratios. California has 527 students per one counselor , and that's more than double the recommended rate of 250 to 1. So there's a great need for counselors. The pandemic , of course , brought this situation to the forefront because more parents were seeing signs of anxiety and depression at home. And we're just really grateful that California is now taking a stand to create spaces for mental health education within school settings.
S1:
S6: For example , the pandemic brought about isolation and a lack of purpose for children and adolescents. We know that protective factors like belonging and mutual care and peer to peer connections , having a purpose such as serving the community , are all put on hold during the pandemic. And that created a great deal of isolation , and it lowered child and adolescent well-being overall. So teachers are seeing the effects. They were seeing the effects while virtual instruction was going. Some of the teachers in San Diego County that we interviewed for a large study said that students just literally disappeared for long periods of time. In addition , some of our most at risk students never came back to school. So enrollments are dropping in some areas.
S1:
S6: Counselors can run small group interventions or whole class lessons for children. They also are one of the first places that teachers go for resources , on mental health or on any behavioral consideration within the classroom. Teachers often turn to a counselor to get some extra support and strategies. Counselors also offer 1 to 1 support. Counselors are often people that have contact with parents and are able to supply community resources for mental health. They can train their school on trauma informed care. What is trauma ? How do we recognize the signs and what can we do to support our learners ? They can also advocate for equity within the classroom as we know that certain disparities exist in California among youth that are particularly at. Risks , such as gender nonconforming youth or youth of color. And finally , they can provide social emotional learning within the classroom and help teachers learn to implement that and reduce the stigma overall of pursuing therapy or needing additional help.
S1: Now , when young people are deciding on a career path , they usually want to know how secure the profession is. So how secure is the school counselor profession ? Aren't counselors among the first positions to go when there are cutbacks ? Yes.
S6: Historically in California , that's definitely been accurate. That's why we have such a bottom national ranking in student to counselor ratios. Now , in order to think about security of employment. I often tell my graduates that are going on to pursue their masters in school counseling that they may be needing to be willing to move out of state. With this grant and with the larger legislative action around youth mental health , I'm hoping that security of employment will become greater. And one of the things that we need to do is districts really need to monitor and track the impact of counselors so the school boards can see that growth and see what's happening with school counselors and make decisions. To add more , parents need to continue to advocate at board meetings so that youth are able to really get the supports that they need. And so I tell my students for security of employment right now , it's not that great just because there aren't a lot of open positions. Now that we have some grants coming in , it should broaden our hiring pool and hopefully keep some of our amazing students here in California that are interested in school counseling.
S1: I've been speaking with Amy Bentley , a professor and developmental psychologist who researches adolescent well-being at the University of California , San Diego. Amy , thank you so much for your time.
S6: Thank you. Have a great day.
S4: More than 22,000 Ukrainians have crossed the border from Mexico into California since the Russian invasion in February. Many have come to the Sacramento area , which already has a large and tight knit Slavic community. Capital Public Radio's Pauline BARTOLONE has more about how these war evacuees are getting by.
S5: When Russians invaded Ukraine , Mykola Chernof , his wife and eight year old son , began a long journey.
S2: To national media.
S5: From their home and nikolayev southern Ukraine. At 430 in the morning on February 24th , they heard explosions set up by Russian forces , Chernov explains through an interpreter.
S2: In which women say.
S6: There were actually bombs and they heard it from their room. And they bombed like a military station there near their city.
S5: For a year , Chernoff and his family knew a Russian invasion may be coming , but nothing prepared them for the escape.
S6: He said he had 2 hours to get everything and they left.
S5: That was the start of a six week journey across Europe , through Mexico and finally to the Sacramento area. His wife's cousin took them in and set them up with an apartment in Roseville.
S2: Not sure , Mr. Bond. Cause know where.
S6: The war is going on. There's just no point of going back because every day their city is getting bombed.
S5: There could be as many as 10,000 Ukrainians who have sought refuge in the Sacramento area in just the past few months , says Vlad Scott of the Ukrainian American house in Rancho Cordova. Although an actual number is not known , what is certain is they rely on the generosity and strong networks of the Ukrainians that arrived just a few decades before them.
S2: People trying to temporarily. SHIRAI They don't know how to be. They don't have place to return.
S5: Ukrainian refugees who came through Tijuana were given humanitarian parole for one year , and many are women and children because men are required to stay and fight , says Scott's.
S2: Many of those Ukrainian refugees , mostly it's younger generation. Many of them speak English , have qualified for education to fit in American businesses.
S5: The new Ukrainians are eligible for public assistance and food benefits , but many of them would like to work , says Dmytro Kushner , the consul general of Ukraine in San Francisco. They can apply to work legally , but it can take up to six months.
S2: People are ready to work like the first days after they come. And we know that a lot of businesses are understaffed in California and in Sacramento area , too. So that will really help with civil good work. But the system as it is , is not allowing to get for them. These authorization quickly fell through as a way of reforming the past , so more.
S5: Slavic churches are playing a big part in welcoming the refugees. Speakers take the mic at the Saturday evening event at the Spring of Life Baptist Church in Orange Bell. Hundreds of Ukrainians come to their weekly events. Church staff help people make DMV appointments , find housing and sign up for government benefits.
S2: It was.
S6: Important that.
S5: We call it Chernov came here one recent Saturday to get help with work papers. He had an iPhone repair business in southern Ukraine. Here , his family receives $400 a month in public benefits.
S6: Once we get a job , stable job , and we couldn't get rid of it because we're not going to need it. We're able to work and provide for us all.
S5: Many others are in limbo in the Sacramento area this summer , wondering if they will settle in the U.S. permanently when their humanitarian parole is up.
S4: Survey after survey shows people who are Gen Z , born between 1996 and 2012 , consider climate change to be the biggest challenge we're facing. KC RW Caley Wells followed one teen climate leader in Los Angeles , Paula Hoffman , for months. She collected audio diaries and captured her speeches at climate strikes. Her testimony before the state legislature and her high school graduation , all while Paola carried the weight of the world's future on her shoulders. Got.
UU: Got. Hi , everyone. I'm Paula Hoffman.
S5: I'm an organizer with Youth Climate Strike in Los Angeles. And I'm just going to be talking for a quick moment about why we're here today. There are tons of people who are willing to show up. You just need people to host the strikes. You need people to put that information into the world. And then other people will follow suit because people do care and people do want to learn. And this generation especially is very passionate about living and having a future. Hi. It's Paola. I was just playing guitar and I figured I should probably check in currently in my room at my desk. I have brought my food upstairs so I can work on finishing up two videos this school year. They also conveniently ignored how large pension funds in New York , Maine , Ireland , the UK , Baltimore , the Netherlands have all divested. Chiefly , we're still working to get SB 173 through as many different Senate hearings as we can. SB 1173 would require that two of the state and nation's largest public pension funds in their respective areas divest from fossil fuels. Next Tuesday is the next one , and we have the Judiciary Committee that's meeting.
S2: SIMON Amos Auburn , please go ahead.
S5: Hi , my name is Paola. I'm with Youth Climate Strike Los Angeles , and we strongly support SB 1173.
S2: Thank you.
S5: I hope that one day the bill will get far enough that I can actually smile about it. I'm just so exhausted. People don't think we're going to be able to get the California Senate Retirement Committee , but we got them. But it's just after that , another committee and onto another committee and onto another committee and it doesn't stop. Okay.
S2: Okay. So that is a 3 to 1 vote with one abstention. And so the bill is out.
S5: Hey , this is Paula. I am currently working on writing a speech. Tomorrow is Earth Day or Earth Crisis Day , as we have been preparing for. And yeah , I'm going to have a very long day. And then the next day I have my prom. I'm going with a bunch of friends. We're really excited because despite all of this , I'm somehow still a high schooler , and it's my senior prom. That's crazy. Hello , everyone. My name is Paola Hoffman. I'm an organizer with Youth Climate Strike , Los Angeles. Well here today at UCLA , because we are begging the U.S. system to care not to just say carbon offsets and we love the earth , but to actually do something real. I feel really good. There's a good kind of tired after these kinds of events because you're exhausted , but you feel like maybe there's a chance that this time things will go better. Hey , it's Paola. I just woke up from a dream where the world ended. Yeah. That's a fun way to start my day. I was trying to think what might have caused the nightmare. And all I can think about is we just had elections , the primary elections in L.A.. And last I went to sleep , I had checked to see what the results were looking like and it kind of felt like a punch in the gut. And then I went to sleep and I saw the world ending. I guess I have some good news. I recently spoke on the changes panel. They were holding a summit over three days and I got to present. My name is Paola. I'm with Youth Climate Strike Los Angeles. Thank you so much for having us here.
S6:
S5: And it's so easy to be tricked into thinking you care alone because of the way that things echo around online and the way that things echo around in the news. You're never alone when it comes to the fight for your life. You are never alone in wanting to. Keep the earth alive. Keep a future alive. Hi. This is Paula. I am so angry right now. I don't even know what to do with it. Our bill is dead. You know , you see people marching in the streets and you think with that many people , surely , surely we can get something done. But not when you have big oil , fossil fuel corporations with their hands directly in politics , they do have the power to directly shut things down. It's hard to remember , to feel happy about what you've done. You just feel so small. I'm really tired of feeling small. Right. That's all I've got for now. Paola Hearst Hoffman. It's surreal to graduate in general , just being on that stage , singing our graduation song , hearing our names get called Walking Across. And I got an award this year and I want it for my work with both teen line and youth climate strike Los Angeles. That was pretty incredible. I'm really sad that I'm not going to be in the L.A. area anymore , especially now. I feel like I've created such a close bond. I'm going to go to Houston. I'm going to go to Rice University , and I'm going to well , I'm currently dedicated to study astrophysics , but sometimes I feel guilty about it because how am I going into the sciences and not the science that we need right now to save the earth ? We need to demonstrate the power of what happens when the youth and intersectoral movements are united. Because we are the generation that rising up to vote.
S4: And rising up to make our voices heard. That audio diary from 18 year old climate activist Paola Hofmann was produced and reported by Casey RW Kaylee Wells. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen CAVANAUGH. The sixth Annual Union-Tribune Festival of Books is coming up on August 20th. The event is a book lover's dream , bringing together local authors and nationally acclaimed writers and thinkers for public discussions , workshops and more. One of the local authors who will be at the festival is Christopher Carter , an assistant professor of theology and religious studies at the University of San Diego. His book , The Spirit of Soul , Food , Race , Faith and Food Reimagines How We Can Eat to Support Food Justice. I spoke with Dr. Carter earlier this year. Here's that interview. So tell me about your book and what inspired you to write it.
S2: The most important thing to know about the book from the beginning is that it really is a way for me to express a journey that I went on trying to discern how I should eat based upon my own particular kind of moral identity information. I was curious as I began to learn more about environmental injustice and the relationship it had to racial injustice in the experience of my grandfather and ancestors with respect to just the exploitation of their labor as black people. I saw these connecting in ways in which they weren't initially evident to me. And so I decided just to just to learn and explore , you know , the backgrounds to black foodways and the backgrounds to the development of our agricultural system and what role black people and then just people of color played in that.
S4:
S2: But among the most life changing , soul altering things I encounter in the book is my research on plantations , particularly Louisiana , which is where my father's and my family is from. And just looking through archives , looking through resources , and learning just how enslavers really had dehumanized black people to the extent that they were very specific about the kind of black person they wanted. Right ? So like , if they were going to be buying someone to work in the rice fields in North Carolina , they were going to be looking for black people from a particular tribe , you know , the Sydney , Gambier region and West Africa. They were going to be looking for black people who were going to be good with cattle. I think I'm looking for another to buy a black person from this particular tribe. And so there was a , you know , a science to it from their perspective that was very much wrapped up in , you know , capitalism. And and I think I just didn't consider the depth to which that that nuance was brought to this particular process and how they had dehumanized black people to that extent. That was you know , that was probably among the hardest things I had to read and write throughout the entire process of about five years writing this book. Hmm.
S5: Hmm.
S4: And you pretty much sum it up there , but. But talk about the ways in which race , food and food justice connect.
S2: Yeah , I think the history of food and the growing of food in our country as wrapped up in racial hierarchy , you know , beginning with the genocide of indigenous peoples and the confiscation of lands both legally and illegally , the development of learning how to grow certain foods , starting again with indigenous folks , teaching European colonialists how to survive when they come to America. And then the beginnings of the plantation where you import this kind of African agricultural knowledge that shows folks , that teaches Europeans again , how to cultivate these crops in particular ways , and that kind of hierarchy stays in place. There's this assumption within the way we construct our food systems in America that people of color in particular are the kind of folks who are good laborers , who are good for tending the land , right , for growing the food necessarily , but not necessarily owning the land or being in charge of the means of production of food. And so from the beginnings of our country , raised in the racial hierarchy , plays a huge role in it. And we see that today we ever drive down the five. You see the ways in which those spaces are populated by predominately Latin immigrants and just the racial hierarchy that's in place in that space. Now , with respect to religion. I think the role religion can and has historically played in this is either in normalizing , unfortunately , some of the conditions that people have been placed in that put them in positions to where they are working in these conditions that we would know to be inhumane or as a mechanism by which can be used to argue for justice. Right , for these people. So you think of someone like Cesar Chavez who is deeply and profoundly moved by his Catholicism. Right. Like his notion of what it means to be connected to God as wrapped up and also what it means to be able to grow and serve. That's connected to this sacred source is this land , as you would call it. And and so so there's a way religion can can be deeply involved in multiple ways. But racial hierarchy has always been involved. We see that being played out today in terms of the implications and impact of those historical injustices.
S4: In your book , The Spirit of Soul Food , you talk about reimagining what soul food could be. Tell me about that.
S2: For me , reimagining soul food begins with saying , okay , how and in what ways might I eat today ? In a way that does honor to my ancestors , that actually also contributes to the alleviation of suffering. And so I argue in the book for something I call soulful eating , of which veganism is and is an important part of it. Part of the reason I argue about veganism is the ways in which I've already discussed this notion of animal ization , the dehumanization of people of color. And there's a way in which this is wrapped up in our industrial agricultural system , particularly factory farms and the ways in which they are still structures of racial hierarchy that disproportionately harm people of color. So reimagining so food really is about recreating recipes and purchasing food and cooking foods in a way that is honored for our ancestors , but also takes seriously the contemporary implications of our global food system.
S4: So give me an example of a dish that does that.
S2: It's tough. It's really close to red beans and rice and and dressing so well. Red beans are rice again from Louisiana. So I grew up on a lot of beans and rice , a lot of gumbo , a lot of greens. Cornbread dressing was like a treat that my mother would make from time to time. And and so one thing I should also say , too , is because my family was poor , we just did a lot of meat. We had a lot of beans because that's what a lot of people eat. And so for me , it was really just about removing the meat products that I would put in and neither substituting it with meat or not. You know , when I eat beans and rice , it takes me back to that place when I was growing up. It gives me that sense of comfort , that sense of connectedness. And so that aspect of that mentioned what it means to be a community. I think that's what we find in soul food. That's what we find in soul. And I have some recipes in the book that offer some opportunities to do that , but there's tons of other I'm not really a chef. I just like to cook. That's what I told them. So I just get in my mind. I love to eat , you know , I love eat , so I love me.
S4:
S2:
S4: That was Reverend Dr. Christopher Carter , author of the book The Spirit of Soul , Food , Race , Faith and Food. And he will be at the Union-Tribune Festival of Books on August 20th. For more information , you can go to our Web site , KPBS dot org.
