S1: It's time for Midday Edition on Kpbs. On today's show , the war between Israel and Hamas is being waged on the ground and through our smartphones , even across the globe. There can be a toll on our mental health. I'm Andrew Bowen here with conversations that keep you informed and inspired and make you think.
S2: We've seen in our research clearly that people who are who , the more they engage with media , the more likely they are to report higher levels of acute stress symptoms , which are the early post-traumatic stress symptoms.
S1: We'll hear from mental health professionals on healthy ways to cope.
S3: Really taking time to step back , to sort of notice your emotions , let them sort of take their natural course before we react.
S1: Plus , The New York Times zooms in on what it's like to be a 13 year old girl in America today. That's ahead on Midday Edition. It's been two weeks since the start of the Israel-hamas War , one that has seen heartbreaking images of death and destruction , many of them involving civilians , even children. It's also a conflict that many of us are experiencing on our phones , on social media and on TV , despite events that may be happening thousands of miles away , consuming media on the conflict can be harmful. We wanted to have a conversation about what we need to keep in mind as we take in images of war and the trauma those images can bring. And with a conflict , with a long history , with deep divides , how can we approach the topic with others in our lives ? Here with more , I'm joined by psychologist Carolyn Allard. She's professor at the California School of Professional Psychology at Alliant International University. Welcome , Carolyn.
S3: Thank you. I'm grateful to be here today.
S1: And Allison Holman is a researcher and professor in the Su and Bill Gross School of Nursing at UC Irvine. Allison , thanks for joining us.
S2: Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.
S1: So I'm going to start with you , Allison. How do we find a balance between being informed but not being overwhelmed ? We're seeing just this deluge of of information every single day. How do we strike the balance of knowing what is going going on in the world , but not getting so overwhelmed that we can't even process that information ? Yeah.
S2: Thank you for that question. It's a very important question because one of the things that we see people doing , which is doomscrolling and it's very important for people not to allow themselves to get sucked into too much engagement with the news. What I recommend people do is to identify very reliable and accurate sources of news , and then schedule for themselves a couple of times a day when they can go in and find out what's going on in the world around them , the things that they care about , and then set themselves that amount of time so it could be 15 minutes in the morning , it could be half an hour in the morning , it could be an hour if that's what you can tolerate. And then do the , you know , the same thing in the evening , maybe a couple of times a day. But set those times aside and make those times the time that you check on the news and not go back to your devices in the interim to look at the news. It takes practice , but it's very important to separate that out. Now in terms of identifying the best sources of news , I encourage people to use fact checking groups because there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there , and I would encourage people to think that to remember that social media is not really the best place to go to get your news , for the most part , and it's better to find sources that have been checked and double checked , triple checked in order to make sure that you're getting accurate information. And the final thing I want to say about this for now is that it's important to pay attention to what's going on in your body as you're paying attention , as you're consuming the news. Because sometimes we'll notice that our breathing is getting more shallow. We'll start feeling our heart race. We'll start feeling ourselves getting upset or agitated. And those kinds of things are indications that the that you're getting stressed out by it. And it's important to maybe you've reached your limit , realize that you might have reached a limit at that point. And that's that's your time frame. That's the maximum you can tolerate.
S1: And also probably helpful to turn off the push notifications and alerts from those news apps that are pinging us throughout the day as well , if we're going to be scheduling the time. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. Because all those are doing is distracting us from our everyday work , and it's important not to let ourselves get distracted and remember some of those. The other thing , thank you for bringing that up , because the other thing that's very important is that we stop. There's ways on your phones , for example , on your devices , to stop it from having an automatic start of every video that comes in , because that's really important , because sometimes the videos can have very graphic imagery , and we know that the graphic imagery is not good for us. It's not good for us to see that too much of that it can be very harmful. So it's important to to turn off the auto start on your videos that come in via whatever source that you're looking at. Now.
S1: Now. Carolyn Allison brought up those graphic images. I think some of our listeners may have had an experience where they're sort of scrolling through their phone , and then they see some , you know , image video of really horrifying violence and then have to set their phone down and jump on a zoom call related to their work.
S3: Important question , and Dr. Holman certainly would be able to speak a lot more about this because she does research in this area. But we know that exposure , indirect exposure to to what we would call traumatic events or adverse events can affect us in similar ways that direct exposure to those things. So it's no small thing to say that you have , you know , you see a really horrific image or video. You can be similarly affected many times in the same way as you would be if you were directly experiencing it. It's really important to sort of limit your exposure to to that , but also if you experience it , process it in the same way that you would process any other adverse directly experience adverse event , which is to take care of yourself , talk about it , engage in self-soothing behaviors , and let yourself express your emotions. Seek support from friends. Professionals know that you know it. Just because you're upset about something right here , right now , doesn't mean it's going to turn into some full , full blown post-traumatic distress. But if you don't let yourself process it and find balance by exposure to maybe positive news and evidence of acts of kindness and beauty and efforts towards peace and successful examples of those , then it can sort of have a cumulative effect that makes it tougher and tougher to to deal with in the long run.
S1: You mentioned self soothing. Can you explain what that means and how people can do that ? Yes.
S3: One of my favorite ways to think about this is to think about how might I soothe a child , a small child , or a baby who's crying , who just got hurt or , you know , is is upset ? You wouldn't , you know , sort of like leave them in the corner by themselves , you know , shake your finger at them , like , pick yourself up by your bootstraps , you know , kind , sort of compassionate , loving sort of parent approach of , you know , picking them up , hugging them , soothing them , stroking their cheek and what the dialogue would be , you know , and you can have that dialogue with yourself , giving yourself grace and comfort and sometimes maybe just spending time outside in nature. I know sometimes when kids , you're having a tantrum , taking them outside and just sort of listening to the birds and the wind , wrestling through the leaves and being in nature , moving your body , exercising , yoga , stretching , walking , whatever that might be. Some people also find creating something , doing something artistic , or building something using their hands can be soothing. Probably people have a good idea of what they find soothing. I would just be careful to not engage in behaviors that are completely of just avoidance based and , you know , maybe harmful in the long run , some some kind of distraction , but that that brings forth sort of pleasant sensations.
S2: If I may , I can make a couple of additional suggestions , please. One of the things that they've some people have done is for photojournalists who look at a lot of images and have to watch images after images , after images , and sometimes see so many really difficult , hard to watch , hard to see imagery. There's an inversion of pictures of kittens and puppies , something that makes the person like , you know , brings warm fuzzies to their to their thinking. Right ? Something that makes them think of something very different , to just kind of disrupt that chain of thought in their mind , to disrupt that processing of just the gruesome or graphic media content. The other thing I would also recommend is , is based on really thinking about compassion and how you can engage in compassionate action. It's a very healing thing to do. And , you know , sometimes if you're especially if you're struggling with something , reaching out to someone else , offering them some empathy as well as , you know , bringing yourself in connection with somebody can also be very helpful because then you you feel like you're part of something bigger with other people , and that can make a person that can help a person feel the sense of belonging , the sense of safety , the sense of being connected , which is really important. Yeah.
S1: So let's talk about that trauma. I think , you know , many people can read stories on a news website or see images and maybe compartmentalize that. Others may have family in Israel or Gaza or the West Bank , and the violence may feel closer to them.
S2: For the folks that went through these studies down the road weeks , a couple of weeks later , they were still having intrusive thoughts about the process. So we know that seeing too much of this is is activating parts of the brain that are associated with that fear response with with the post-traumatic stress , types of symptoms that people may experience. We've seen in our research clearly that people who are who , the more they engage with media , and this is just in terms of how much , but the more they engage with media , the more likely they are to report higher levels of acute stress symptoms , which are the early post-traumatic stress symptoms. So symptomatically they experience these symptoms. But I would also like to point out , and you raise an extremely important point here , because we have documented in some recent research that the more you share an identity with somebody who's been victimized in a video or a picture , the more likely you are to experience distress and the more likely you are to engage with the media about it , to come back to the media and stay engaged with the media. And because we know that the engagement with the media is it can become cyclical. So our research has shown that what happens , what can happen , is that a person engages with the media. They experience some of these early traumatic stress type symptoms that may last for a little while. They become more and more worried about future things and that that is associated with them actually engaging with the media more after the next event that happens. The next big collective trauma , and then they become more distressed after that. So what we see is the potential for this negative spiral , this negative cycle.
S1: Next on Midday Edition , seeing the devastation from the comfort of our homes can bring up feelings of guilt.
S3: Be aware that these feelings of guilt and shame come up , and they're just common reactions to experiencing trauma , whether directly or not.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bowen filling in today for Jade Hyndman , and I'm speaking today with psychologist Carolyn Allard and researcher Allison Holman about the media's impact on our mental wellness in the wake of the war between Israel and Hamas. Carolyn , one of the really particularly distressing aspects of this conflict has been how innocent children have been among the victims.
S3: If I'm , if I might just jump on what Dr. Hoffman was talking about in terms of sort of the post-traumatic reactions that we can have to increased exposure , more exposure we have , the more traumatic the outcome can be in terms of like we react in very similar way as to as when we experience these things directly , especially when we share an identity with some of the folks who are adversely affected because it does start feeling like a threat towards self. And so one of the really sort of big pieces of post-traumatic distress , and it's an area that I do research in is guilt and shame. And sometimes people call it survivor guilt when it's related to indirect exposure. Like this. You know why , why , why me ? Why am I okay ? I don't deserve to be okay when all these other folks are suffering. And that tends to be exacerbated when we share an identity and we feel some closeness , and maybe even have family and friends that are experiencing these things. So guilt is a is a big piece of post-traumatic distress , and it's important to sort of just notice it and be aware of it and know that it's it's a common reaction. And that just because we feel guilt doesn't mean we are guilty. So what I would like to encourage folks to , to do is to notice that and be aware that these feelings of guilt and shame come up , and they're just common reactions to experiencing trauma , whether directly or not. And to remind themselves that just because they feel guilty doesn't mean they are what it does is it helps point us to our values , what's important to us , what we want to do. We want to we want to reduce suffering. We want to value human life. We want to be able to do something to help. And if we just sort of get stuck in our guilt and think that that means we are guilty , somehow we contributed to this , or we should be ashamed or we're not deserving , then we just kind of get stuck in that spiral that Dr. Holman was talking about , where it becomes debilitating and we are actually less likely to to do anything that might be helpful to others , to ourselves in the future. So really noticing that that guilt and shame come up and disconnecting it from it , and in terms of like not buying it hook , line and sinker , but noticing it , seeing what sort of values it's pointing to and how and what we can do right here , right now so that we get that sense of of control and moving towards our values.
S1: There's been a lot of comparisons between the attacks by Hamas on October 7th and the attacks on New York City on September 11th , and I think that's a pretty apt comparison for many different reasons. But one of them , you know , we experienced it right here on our midday Edition team. One of our producers , after seeing the news of these attacks on October 7th , was brought right back to that moment that he was living in New York City on September 11th , 2001. Alison , I know you've done some research on September 11th.
S2: I mean , that's part of having a lived experience. And we know in our research with cumulative looking at sorry with looking at collective trauma , we see that it the effects or shall I say the associations between these exposures , whether it's direct exposure in live exposure or indirect via the media. We do see that either way , those kinds of experiences , the sensitivity to them and the response to them is cumulative. So we do know that people , when they've been exposed to one event there and they see another event there and they experience another event , they're more likely to have some of the sensitivity and the distress that that may come with that , that second or third event. And it can bring back. There's a concept called kindling and can bring back this idea that somehow there it's , you know , rehashing in their minds. It's bringing back to memory , the mind , the memories of another prior event. And we not always consciously aware that that is what's going on. But that may be what's going on. And yes , I mean , that's a that's a real event. So we know that these things , you know , who you are in your life and the experiences you've had in your life are very much a part of what shapes how you respond to the current events that you're experiencing.
S1: I think one of the challenges with this conflict , and many of the wars that we see nowadays in particulars , that we're experiencing them through our phones and our laptops are devices. And that's also how we often communicate with people , with our friends. And , you know , people may see a post that that a friend puts on their social media feel like it doesn't capture the whole story and maybe really hurt or offended by that.
S3: There's so much of that right about this and and everything else going on in our world where we see so much reaction and reactivity that just engender is more and more polarization and extreme views. And a lot of that is it's prompted by by fear , by strong emotions. And so really taking time to step back to sort of notice your emotions , let them sort of take their natural course before we react. And , and that can be really difficult , especially with , you know , the more intense and negative the emotions are. But that's a it's a really important sort of practice to. Uh , to , to develop , which is to just sort of notice our emotions don't need to get rid of them , don't need to avoid them , but to notice them , let them take their natural course before we decide on any action. You might sleep on it. You might go for a walk. You might talk about it with somebody that that is neutral , that is calm. And then when you're ready to kind of think through the pros and cons of how you might respond , um , you will make a more informed decision about how to respond to , to not fuel the flame and to not , um , polarize things more than they already are. Um , so that that would be my main recommendation.
S1: Allison , you say that compassion is key to the conversation here about trauma. What do you mean by compassion ? And how can we incorporate that into our daily lives and to how we are interacting or processing this war that we're watching ? Uh.
S4:
S2: Great question. So when I talk about compassion , I'm talking about having that ability to feel empathy for the experience of others and choosing to act on your empathy when you see somebody that's in pain or hurting somebody that might need help. And when I in the context of of the war , I think it's very , very hard because there are very strong feelings on all sides of this. And I think it's it's important to remember and to have the compassion in our hearts to when we get into conversations with people , if we notice that there are differences that are emerging in that conversation and that those differences might be. Leading to strong feelings on the parts of the people in the conversation. I think it's important to hold in our hearts that there's a reason for there's a there's a strong reason for that. Those strong emotions and those strong emotions have to do with prior historical trauma that's been experienced. And that's the case for all people involved here. And so , for example , for a lot of people living in Israel and for many Jewish people , the idea that there was a Holocaust , the Holocaust is a form of collective historical trauma. And that's just one example. And so understanding the historical context in which this event happens , and also having holding that place in our hearts where we understand that that is an extremely frightening and and scary place to be. And so being able to say , you know , I understand that's where this person is coming from. And that may be part of why they're having this reaction. And I need to check out why I'm having a strong reaction and where I'm coming from and being willing to do that. Self reflection. And to really kind of say , you know , people are hurting. How can I reflect on my actions here so that I don't continue to do that to to say or do things that are going to hurt others ? So that really opening our hearts to the possibility that we need to approach a conversation differently , we need to approach a person differently so that we can be more compassionate in our behavior and our actions with others. I think it's really , really important and that's , you know , to help guide those conversations so that not all conversations have to go downhill. And , you know , being willing to say to somebody who you care about and recognizing and remembering that you really care about somebody , even though you might be upset with them about something. They're saying , you remember that the amount of caring and really pay attention to that. It's very important. That's very important for keeping relationships intact , not allowing the news or the conflict to disrupt our relationships with people who matter to us. And and it's it. I think it's an important it's an important process.
S1: We are out of time. I've been speaking with Carolyn Allard , professor at the California School of Professional Psychology at Alliant International University , and Allison Holman , a researcher and professor in the Su and Bill Gross School of Nursing at UC Irvine. I want to thank you both for joining us today and sharing your professional insight into this.
S2: Thank you.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S1: Still ahead on Midday Edition in 2023. It is not easy to be a 13 year old girl.
S5: 13 is an interesting age because on the one hand , it's when teenagers are legally allowed to join social media sites. But for girls , it's also around the age at which self-esteem and self confidence tends to dip.
S1: That's next on Kpbs Midday Edition. You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman. On Tuesday , some 40 states , including California , filed a lawsuit against social media giant meta for harms against children's mental health. Meta , the parent company behind Facebook and Instagram , has long been accused of designing its products to be addictive and contributing to a mental health crisis for young people. A recent reporting project from The New York Times delves into the role that social media plays in young people's lives. The series is called Being 13. It presents an intimate portrait of what life is like for 13 year old girls today in an increasingly digital world. New York Times reporter Jessica Bennett spoke with Midday Edition producer Andrew Bracken about the project.
S6: So being 13 opens with the screen being kind of overwhelmed by messages , news headlines , notifications. And I'm just curious. Was that your intention to start off this project , to make them feel kind of overwhelmed and inundated by this content ? Yeah.
S5: Mean we wanted readers to experience what I think most young people and old people alike are experiencing on their phones today , which is , yeah , incessant notifications. And if you're a teenager , those notifications are coming from social media sites like TikTok or Instagram. They're coming from school where you get constant grade notifications they're coming from , if you're subscribed , news headlines and , you know , plus all the inundation of text messages you get from parents and friends.
S6:
S5: But for girls , it's also around the age at which self-esteem and self confidence tends to dip relative to their male peers. So we thought it would be a really interesting year to try to capture the intersection of those two things.
S6: You know , tell us about the girls in this project. There are three girls there from different parts of the country.
S5: And really what we were looking for were a diverse group of teenagers who come from different backgrounds , have different family structures , but who are really going to be willing to open up and let us inside not just their lives , but their phones. Like there was a lot of me being like , okay , I need to see a screenshot of that. Or what was the text message you received today ? Or send me a list of all the notifications you you receive today , and also tell me how much time you spent on your phone , even though I know you were cheating because you were supposed to be grounded and actually you were sneaking your phone and you need to be able to open up about that to me. So we ultimately chose three girls. There's London , who lives in Olney , Maryland , which is a suburb of Washington , D.C. she lives with her mom and her sister , who has autism. There is Anna , who is kind of a star student outside of Denver , Colorado , who lives with both parents. And then there is Addie Addison , who lives in Michigan with both her parents and her three sisters. So a pretty large family. She's the oldest of all the girls.
S6: And can you tell us a little bit more about what a 13 year old's brain looks like ? I think you quote the mother of one of the girls you feature , Addie you just talked about. She described her daughter as , quote , half adult , half child. Yeah.
S5: Yeah. I mean , I don't know about you , but I pretty distinctly remember being 13 , and it was an age at which everything felt really severe. You know , you have these big feelings about almost everything. You're starting to question things. So I was fighting a lot with my parents. But at the same time , you might not know how to process everything you're feeling. And so when Priscilla , who's Addy's mom , described this , she was in a moment where her daughter had been asking to dye her hair purple for like months and months and months , and finally Priscilla decided , okay , for your birthday , I will let you get your hair dyed. And so she's sitting in like the very adult fancy splurged for salon chair , getting her hair dyed , looking much older than she did even a year ago because she was growing and developing so quickly. And then she's sipping a Capri Sun and eating a lunchable and texting with her friends. So then there's this sort of childlike element to it. And , you know , we talked to a lot of neuroscientists and brain specialists to try to understand what is actually happening inside a girl's brain at that age. And your brain is very much still developing , like the part of the brain that controls things like decision making and impulse control that isn't fully developed until someone is in their early 20s. And so this idea that for kids , for teenagers of any gender , you are giving them this device which has so much information , overwhelming amount of information on it , at the same time that their brains are still kind of figuring out who they are trying to develop , you know , figuring out where the line is and , and what kind of impulses they do have and how to control them can , in the words of some of the experts we spoke to , be a kind of perfect storm.
S6: There's also more of an audience here now because of social media. Like one mistake , one fight can go far beyond just your circle and your of your friends. You talk about this with receipts , for example , where people take screenshots of posts like as evidence. Does that affect how these girls are using the internet ? Yeah.
S5: Well , it's interesting because. To some degree. They're so ingrained in phone culture and phone life that I'm not even sure that they realize it as it's happening. But then you go when you talk to like the school counselors at each of their schools who are saying , oh my gosh , yeah , like everything that comes into my office is something that occurred somewhere online or on the phone in some way. And by the time it's made its way into my office , it's hard to even figure out what the original sin might have been or whether it even really was a sin. So I think there's a lot of misinformation. There's a lot of like , you know , screenshot of a mean text message that then gets posted to a different platform , and then someone saving it from that platform and then like , it makes its way through seven different people and finally into the principal's office , where the teachers are trying to figure out what exactly went on. And , you know , one , one school principal , this was at London School , which is in Maryland , said to me , you know , when she was growing up , like you would do something stupid in the hallway or you would trip and fall or whatever it might have been , and you'd be embarrassed for a minute , and maybe some kids would make fun of you , but then it would be over. But now , in the back of your mind at all times. Anything you might do that might be silly or embarrassing , there's the threat of it being photographed or videoed and that living on. So it's almost as if you're modulating your behavior at all times , knowing that there is a potential audience.
S6: And , you know , one of those school counselors you spoke with , you know , they had a quote that that resonated with me. It said , you know , it's scary what they say to each other on text. And it reminded me I'm a parent. It reminded me of like , a disturbing message that I found that , you know , one of my kids , one of the friends sent them. And what made it particularly striking to me was that I know the child who sent the message , and it really seemed sort of out of character from how that child behaves in real life.
S5: You know , like in the early days of the internet when all the researchers were studying online addiction and communication patterns , they were saying , like people hide behind anonymity. And sometimes that anonymity isn't even necessarily a person not knowing who you are , but it's having this barrier of a screen between you. You're willing to say things that you might not be willing to say to a person's face. And I mean , I have noticed that in myself , there are times when I'm willing or more comfortable to say something more directly in a text message than I might if I called somebody on the phone. And so I think that's very much playing out for these kids. And oftentimes these conversations are happening not just one on one , but in group chats. And so that adds a whole other layer and component where there's multiple people kind of watching. This goes back to your audience point. But if you're talking to someone directly and there's an audience of people watching , you have the conversation. Are you going to say things a little bit differently than you might , especially if you're a teenager and you don't have a ton of impulse control ? So , yeah , what this school counselor was saying to me is that always there's some screenshot or some message that makes its way into her office when there is a conflict between students. And oftentimes she is really surprised about the language used or the way that someone would say something. And what she tries to do is really encourage these kids to have , like , old fashioned face to face conversations , to talk about their feelings , because over the phone it's just a lot of hyperbole and sometimes a lot of meanness that wouldn't exist otherwise.
S6: And here on Midday Edition , we've spoken multiple times with a San Diego State professor and researcher , Gene Chang , about social media's impact on young people and specifically on their mental health. Here's a little of what she told us in a conversation earlier this year.
S7: So we know that the more hours a day a child or teen spends on social media , the more likely it is that he or she is depressed. We also know that there have been huge increases in anxiety and depression and self-harm among teens and young adults since 2012 , and that's right around the time that social media use became really ubiquitous.
S6: So I wonder if you can just talk a little bit more about what the research tells us , because from what I can gather , there is some research , and we do understand some of social media's impact on young people , but there's still a lot we don't know. Is that right ? Yeah.
S5: I think what you're saying is so , so true. There's just a lot we don't know. Like the clip you played mentioned. You know , we know that rates of anxiety and depression have been. Rising since around the time that social media and phones came into the equation. But I don't think we really know enough to show cause and effect. So a lot of the researchers we spoke to as part of this project , you know , we're really clear to say , look like you can make some assumptions. We know that a lot of this stuff is not great for teenagers with developing brains , and it's not great for anxiety and depression. But there are a lot of things we don't know. So there's one really longitudinal study , I believe it's called the ABCd study that is following teenagers over the course of many years to try to understand the impact of phones on them. But a lot of the research out there just doesn't have definitive conclusions. So , you know , look , anything that is happening in too many hours compared to living your life in reality , I think is probably going to be a negative. But I'm hesitant to say that all social media or all phone use is bad for kids. It's really hard to know. I think a lot of the experts will say , you know , everything in moderation , and certainly have conversations with your kids about what they are seeing and try to , I guess , open , have open conversations about media literacy. Like a lot of what you're seeing online is not reality. And I think that's an important conversation to have with kids. But at the same time , it's not quite as simple as just like banning kids from phones , especially when we all use them.
S6: You know , as you've mentioned , you know , 13 is the age when people generally can are allowed to join social media. But there are efforts in several states looking to limit young people's use of social media in a variety of different ways.
S5: But were the option available to have started kids on this later ? Yeah , I think that would have been great. And I think limiting the use is probably really a good thing. Um , you know , this is such already. This is such a fraught time in teenagers lives. But particular girls like the combination of puberty and hormones and estrogen has really been shown to create very big feelings without often the maturity or the modulation needed to understand how to process those feelings. And so then you add this whole other thing in the mix where and it's not just social media , it's like group chats and constant notifications. And I didn't even realize before doing this story that most schools actually notify via push notification about every little change to a kid's grade. And I'm just thinking about , like , doing homework in middle school where I to be getting a push notification at all times , telling me that like my science quiz was a 67 and now my grade has dropped. The amount of anxiety that would have caused on top of already anxiety that's high for teenagers and in particular girls at that age would have really been a problem.
S6:
S5: You know , social media is all bad , like take away kids phones entirely doom and gloom. And I think to some extent it's it's just more complicated than that. So that I think is one thing. It's not all bad , but I also think that , you know , recognizing that to some extent , a lot of us as adults are a little bit hypocritical when we tell our kids to not do certain things at the same time that we're doing it. So I guess I just have really been encouraging , and I think I've learned from these teenagers and their parents who are struggling their way through this , that at times open conversations about why something might be a problem or why it might be harming to their mental health can be more effective , and maybe even looking at the content , whatever it might be together , then just trying to turn it all off. Because the other thing too , is if you're one parent trying to limit your kids interaction , but everyone else at school is doing it like they're always going to be more tech savvy than us , they're always going to find a way around it. So the idea of just grounding someone from social media. And as I learned very clearly in working on this project , does not necessarily work.
S6: So you undertook this pretty ambitious project to better understand the lives of these young teenage girls.
S5: But I hope what I was able to do is provide a slice of what it's like to be 13. And , you know , there were times when I was like , oh , my God , I don't I don't understand these teenagers. And to really understand them , it's almost like you have to be living inside their phone. And it was really hard to get that week over , week over week. And even when I went out to visit them , I would be sitting next to them and like just hovering over their phone trying to see what they were doing at all times , which I'm sure they found very annoying. But it was like the conversation that they would have with me while I was sitting right there was so different from what was happening inside their phone , that I really had to be both places to understand what was going through their minds.
S1: That was reporter Jessica Bennett , speaking with Midday Edition's Andrew Bracken about her reporting project for The New York Times , called Being 13. Thanks for joining us. What are your thoughts on the impact of social media on our mental health ? Give us a call at (619) 452-0228 and leave us a message. Or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. We'd love to share your ideas here on Midday Edition. Don't forget to watch Evening Edition tonight on Kpbs television for in-depth reporting on San Diego issues. We'll be back tomorrow at noon , and if you ever miss a show , you can find the Midday Edition podcast on all podcasting platforms. I'm Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman. Thanks for listening.
