City council tightens use surveillance technology

S1: A new ordinance tightens the use of surveillance technology.
S2: Sometimes these technologies are sold to cities with big promises that they'll fix all their problems , and things don't exactly turn out that way.
S1: I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen CAVANAUGH. This is KPBS Midday Edition. A look at why there's rarely accountability for officers involved in use of force cases.
S3: Way too often you'll have investigating internal affairs officers who have a deep identification with and sympathy for the officer whose conduct is under investigation.
S1: And home prices took a dip for the first time this year. What's ahead for the market ? And a look at what to expect for Comic-Con. That's ahead on Midday Edition. A new city ordinance which tightens the use of surveillance technology was passed unanimously by the San Diego City Council yesterday. While the vote establishes rules on the use and acquisition of these technologies , it did not , however , ban the city and law enforcement from using them in the first place. Instead , it requires that data gathered from these technologies be made public knowledge and subject to evaluation by a newly created Privacy Advisory Board. Joining me now with the implications of this new ordinance is KPBS metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew , welcome. Hi.
S2: Hi. Thanks , Jade.
S1: So can you start off by telling us what new rules this ordinance will introduce ? Sure.
S2: The ordinance is just an effort to increase the transparency around what kinds of surveillance technology the city uses , how much it costs , both in terms of dollars and cents and in terms of tradeoffs on privacy and civil liberties , and also how that tech is or is not actually helping the city do its job. So it lays out some clearly defined rules and an approval process for acquiring new surveillance technology. There are more clearly defined rules for how and when the city and city staffers can actually use the technology , how long they can store data , when they can share that data with third parties. And it requires an annual report on the use of surveillance technology , along with more public and democratic deliberation over whether all of this technology is actually worth it.
S1: A controversial amendment to this ordinance was approved by a split council vote last month , which made certain exemptions for police officers from this law.
S2: After that point , the city had to meet and confer with its labor unions to determine whether the ordinance would impact the working conditions of its unionized employees. So the last year and a half , roughly has been pretty quiet. A lot of people were eager to see this taken up by the city council again last June , and they were surprised when Councilmember Raul Campos introduced an amendment to the ordinance that would exempt police officers that are working on joint task forces with federal law enforcement. The concern was from Police Chief David Light was that when CPD works with , say , the FBI , they're often bound by a confidentiality agreement and it's impossible to abide by those agreements with the FBI and this surveillance ordinance , because the ordinance requires the police to disclose things that they promised to keep secret. There was also another amendment that limited the amount of money that the city would pay in attorney's fees if somebody were to sue and over this ordinance and win. So those amendments passed 5 to 4 in a very close vote. And the response from privacy activists was just a lot of anger and frustration. They felt blindsided. You know , the FBI didn't bring up those issues any time over the past year and a half. And , of course , the FBI doesn't exactly have the best track record on respecting civil liberties and privacy rights. So there wasn't a lot of trust there either.
S1: Council President Shawn Ella Rivera also urged city staff to come back with recommendations on how to end exemptions for police when sensitive information is involved.
S2: When surveillance technology maybe has the potential to impact , say , women seeking abortions or a protected class like a religious minority. There was a lot of surveillance of Muslims after 911 or some other marginalized groups. They're supposed to be , under this request , some kind of trigger. It's really not clear what that's going to look like. Often of these requests for future amendments of ordinances get thrown in at the last minute just to kind of satisfy critics , and they never really result in any meaningful policy change. But we won't know for sure until city staffers actually come back with those proposals.
S1:
S2: They called them smart streetlights. And the deal was really pitched as a way to create a smart city that could gather lots of data to measure traffic volumes , to determine which streets will need repaving , at what point where the biggest demand for bike or pedestrian infrastructure is. The problem was the smart streetlights never really delivered on those promises. Instead , PD began using the footage from the cameras to investigate crimes. And they did so without any real public. Abate. Ultimately , the streetlights just became a tool exclusively for law enforcement , and that was never the plan that was sold to the public. So the goal from privacy advocates after that whole debacle was to prevent that kind of thing from happening again by clear disclosure around surveillance technology and , you know , rules around who can use it and when and all that.
S1: As you've mentioned , DPD used footage from these upgraded lights hundreds of times since they were installed.
S2: Police would go to the Sustainability Department and ask , Can we see this hour of footage where a crime was committed ? And the Sustainability Department said , Sure. And so there was just no real debate over that process. And the people who were being asked to make this decision weren't necessarily experts on privacy or on , you know , when a crime might need that kind of footage or when police might be able to solve it via other means.
S1: I've been speaking with KPBS metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew , thanks for talking with us.
S2: My pleasure , David.
S4: A cfpb's review of nearly 500 use of force incidents shows it's rare for local police officers to be fired or even suspended when they kill or severely injured people. Investigative reporter Claire TRAGESER examines why police usually face light punishment. A warning. This story has graphic descriptions and sounds.
S5: Sheriff's Communications DISPATCHER six Can I help you ? This is Fox over Chula Vista PD. I got a calling actually from Spring Valley and got connected with us on 901. Uh huh. It's about a suspicious person. Possible prowler. And I got to.
S3: Call on all I. Know.
S6: Know. At just before 11 p.m. one evening in August 2012 , a woman called the sheriff's department deputy Luke Burkhalter and his partner were dispatched to the scene. They walked up to the house but didn't identify themselves or call out to the homeowner. Burkhalter drew his gun.
S7: Like I said , my gun was in front of me a little already.
S3: I don't recall how far my arms were extended.
S7: Something pushed down on my gun. Something made contact with my gun.
UU: And as that happened , my gun discharged.
S6: This is what Burkhalter later told investigators.
S7: As soon as the is my firearm discharged , I think I said , oh , shit. Or something like that. I realized that a person was there and then I was able to see that it was a woman and that she was she was still standing. But she had she was leaning she's bent over at the waist. And I think she was maybe holding her abdomen or holding her arm.
S6: He had shot the homeowner who called police. The woman was wounded on her chest and arm and was taken to the hospital for emergency surgery. The department called Burkhalter actions , quote , careless and imprudent , but he was not fired or suspended. He only received a written reprimand to go in his file. The light discipline Burkhalter received is a trend , according to a cfpb's analysis of 475 police use of force incidents. In fact , more than 97% of the time , officers received no discipline whatsoever , the analysis shows. And when officers were disciplined , it was sometimes for actions other than shooting or using force against a suspect. And most of the time they were back on the street after a short suspensions , if they were suspended at all. For example , San Diego Sheriff's Deputy Kyle Klein was disciplined after kicking a man in the face during an arrest. However , his discipline was for failing to document it. And San Diego police officer Elliot Simon , who tackled a man and knocked him unconscious , was suspended for one day for failing to turn on his body camera.
S3: How many people were suspended or disciplined in any meaningful way ? Not a lot.
S6: DeRay McKesson is a civil rights activist with Campaign Zero.
S3: Imagine if you had a job where it literally was just impossible to get in trouble to be held accountable. That's a policing is.
S6: Experts say there are a number of reasons why officers so often escape serious punishment , including the way police policies are written and how investigations are done. But topping the list is the strength of police unions , says San Diego attorney Eugene Iredale.
S3: The power of the police unions contract negotiations in which disciplinary procedures are negotiated , and the natural tendency of an organization and people to try to protect its own for whatever reason , they get due process. Plus.
S6: The San Diego Police Officers Association didn't respond to a request for comment. Police investigations of use of force have historically been done internally within the department.
S3: Way too often you'll have investigating Internal Affairs officers who have a deep identification with and sympathy for the officer whose conduct is under investigation.
S6: That said , San Diego law enforcement agencies are instituting reforms , especially after protests over police violence swept the country in 2020. The departments announced in April that they'll investigate each other when an officer shoots and kills someone. So the sheriff's department will investigate a police shooting and vice versa. Police use of force expert Travis Norton welcomes the change , but says departments already did thorough investigations.
S3: And I understand that that our critics would say , hey , you guys can't police yourselves. Well , in my 24 years , there's not this big thing covering up stuff. We don't want that. We don't want that. That is not what we want. We want to maintain legitimacy with our communities. It's so important , especially now.
S6: Some activist. Have long called on District Attorney Sommer Stephan to charge officers for past shootings. But she says there is rarely a reason to do so.
S4: In the time that I've been here. I feel that every single case has received our full attention , our best experience , and that we've tried to provide as transparent of a process as possible. But I think the voices should keep coming. You know , if I lost a loved one to a police officer , I would want more answers and probably would never stop asking them.
S6: Claire TRAGESER , KPBS News.
S4: In an emailed statement in SD , PD officials said , While officers are not perfect , the documents reveal their professionalism and courage during incredibly dangerous situations. This is KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Maureen CAVANAUGH with Jade Heineman. Have rising interest rates actually started to cool San Diego's red hot housing market ? It looks like it as housing prices dropped in June for the first time this year. The median home price in San Diego fell $25,000 last month from 850000 to 825000. And there are more indications the real estate market may be getting back to a kind of normal. Housing inventory is up and properties are taking longer to sell. Joining me is San Diego Union-Tribune business reporter Phillip Millner. And , Phil , welcome back.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S4: So when the first interest rate hikes went into effect earlier this year , housing prices kept going up.
S3: That was the thinking at the time. So people just rushed into the market and that drove up our median home price to the highest it's ever been. So while everyone was expecting at first that home prices are going to probably go down because interest rates are going up. It had the opposite effect for about three months. But things move sort of slowly in the real estate market. So eventually we started seeing even back in April a little bit in March , we started seeing a little bit of price reductions going on more than we had seen before. So what finally happened ? It seemed we hit this this point in the market where buyers were like , prices are way too high right now. And if I look at my interest rate and what my monthly payments are going to be , there's no way I can afford that. So I talked to real estate agents all over the county for weeks on end every week , and they say the same thing , that buyers are starting to get finally priced out of the market.
S4:
S3: And that's a really significant amount of money when you add it up over a whole year or in fact , 30 year mortgage.
S4:
S3: Our median home price sort of exploded along with a lot of the country in as soon as the pandemic hit. There was this rush that I need to get shelter and I need to get into a house. And people were doing a little bit better financially. So we've just seen our median home price just skyrocket if you look at June 2020. So two years ago , our median home price was around $600,000. And today , even with this decrease that we just had , our median home price is $825,000. So if you're looking at more than $200,000 increase in two years. So even if home prices really start going down in the next couple of months , you're still probably ahead if you bought two years ago.
S4: And now , besides interest rates.
S3: I mean , the main factor that everyone I talked to , all the analysts , everything point to is interest rates , because nothing has really fundamentally changed about the San Diego market. We still have very few homes for sale. There's still a lot of people that really want to live here. But the only thing that's really changed in all this time is the interest rates. That's really what people have just zeroed in on as the main reason for prices going down and the market going down. So , okay , so in the month of June , we had about 4700 homes for sale. That's still really low for the fifth largest county in America and even historically speaking for San Diego , if you take that 4700. So back in December , we were around 2000 homes for sale. So this is really , really increasing now with an extra 2000 homes on the market or almost near 3000 homes on the market. That really reduces competition and really that need for buyers to have to go over asking price and all these kind of things that we were seeing throughout the pandemic.
S4: Now , you say one indication the market is changing is the number of open house signs showing up around town. And I have seen them , too.
S3: So I talked to Mark Goldman. He's a real estate analyst and he kind of pointed that out to me , too. So I've been seeing tons of open house signs all over the place , and I've been taking pictures of them because I use them for my articles. It hadn't really occurred to me. But what Mark Goldman was saying was he said when the market starts to cool , look for the signs. He meant it literally and figuratively. So when you start seeing a lot of open house signs in your neighborhood , that means real estate agents are trying harder to sell those homes. There were times throughout the pandemic the most wild stories put a home on the market. And also , you don't have to do anything. And also , you've got 20 offers and the home sells in three days. So if those real estate units are having to go really hard , put those open house signs up and do an open houses. That's your first sign , really , that the market has started to cool.
S4:
S3: The thing is , everyone is expecting that prices will either slightly go down or they'll stay about the same. So that's sort of the overall overarching idea going on right now. But , you know , we never know this. This market has been so unpredictable since the start of the pandemic. I mean , the prevailing wisdom when the pandemic started was that home prices were going to crash and obviously that didn't happen. So I'm kind of just the truth is , nobody really knows what's going to happen. But I will say out of everybody I talked to , they seem to think that it's not going to be a crash. Just the pace at which prices go up is going to go really slow in the next coming year.
S4:
S3: You know , right now we've got about 4700 homes for sale , as I said before. But if you go back to 2000 , 19 , around the same time , we had nearly 9000. So there's still not a lot of homes on the market. And even though competition is less than it's been throughout the last couple of years , there's still very few homes. So that does make it difficult for buyers still.
S4: Okay then. I've been speaking with San Diego Union-Tribune business reporter Philip Molnar. Philip , thank you.
S3: Thank you so much.
S4: San Diegans with travel plans to see the giant sequoias in Yosemite National Park had to cancel them this month. But luckily , that cancellation doesn't have to be permanent. Firefighters appear to be getting the upper hand on the wildfire that's been burning at Yosemite for nearly two weeks. The fire has destroyed 5000 acres and threatened the famous Mariposa Grove of sequoia trees. But the trees survived. This is the latest in a series of wildfires in recent years that have threatened California's sequoia trees , which are among the oldest and largest organisms in the world. Saving the ancient and irreplaceable trees has become a priority for the National Park Service. Joining me to talk about strategies national parks are using to protect the sequoias is Christy Brigham , chief of Resource Management and science at Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks. And Kristie , welcome to the program.
S3: Thank you , Maureen. Thanks for having me.
S4:
S3: Thankfully , the area burned into most of it had recent prescribed fire. So we anticipate that it that it will do well with the fire.
S4:
S3: And the firefighters during the fire and all the actions the park took before the fire did a great job.
S4:
S3: I hope most of your listeners have been able to see them in person. They really are spectacular. They're the largest trees on earth by volume , and they have this huge red trunk that the big ones , it takes 10 to 20 people to get around and give one tree a hug with really shaggy bark. They're kind of the the golden retrievers of the of the tree world really huggable and their canopies are so high above your head. This twisted broccoli tops. Every tree looks different. You can really feel their age and their individual personalities.
S4:
S3: They're not the oldest trees on earth. Those are the bristlecone pines , but they're incredibly old.
S4: And the sequoias can only be found in California.
S3: Yeah , only in about 78 groves on the western slope of the Sierra Nevada. So they're very special trees to Californians and the world in general. People love them and come from all around the world to see them.
S4:
S3: During that fire season , we lost 10 to 14% of all large living sequoias. And then just last fire season , we lost another 3 to 5%. So we're up to about 20% loss of sequoias from from wildfire.
S4: You know , over the thousands of years that they've lived. They've survived many wildfires.
S3: They're larger in size and they are burning more intensely hotter with higher flame lengths. And that's really destroying.
S1: Huge areas of forests that would.
S3: Have survived these previous , more frequent , less hot , less intense fires.
S4: And talk to us a little bit about canopy fires , what they are and why they concern you.
S3: Yeah , that's a great question. And that is our biggest concern is fire that gets off the ground and into the canopy of these trees , not just the sequoias , but the other pines and firs and cedars that surround them. So these forests are really adapted to what we say frequent low severity fire , and that means fire. But because of lightning and indigenous burning practices would burn these forests depending on where you were every 10 to 30 years. And when the forest burns that often there isn't enough fuels or dead wood on the ground and standing trees to carry the fire into the canopy of the trees , especially for giant sequoias , their camp , these are 100 feet , 200 feet off the ground because of 100 years of fire suppression , followed by our hotter climate change driven hot droughts and the tree mortality. Now we have ladder fuels and we have so many dead trees and so much wood in these forests that the flames can get into the canopies and burn up the tree canopies and kill the trees.
S4: Now , there is an ongoing effort by the National Park Service to protect and save these trees.
S3: One is before wildfires are burning. And that's really when we have the most options is. Before a wildfire starts so we can do things like use prescribed fire under the right conditions in the right areas. We can do hand removal of some of these smaller trees or the dead trees to reduce the fuel loads , the amount of forest fire fuel in the stands. That's being combined with extraordinary efforts that people like Garrett Dickman and the managers are taking and the firefighters are taking when the fire actually comes into sequoia groves , where you've seen the photos of wrapping individual trees and structure wrap and setting up sprinklers and taking all these extraordinary measures to try and protect these 2000 year old trees from being lost in these devastating high severity fires.
S4:
S3: We've seen them work in all the recent fires , even the ones that burned with such ferocity. When those fires entered areas where we had done prescribed burning , they dropped to the ground. In some cases , they even went out. They had beneficial effects for the sequoias that like low severity fire. So we know these things work. The uncertainty is around. Can we do the planning , the staffing , the funding , the project work fast enough to protect the groves that are still at risk because we're getting so many fires and such large fires. So it takes us quite a long time to execute these projects.
S4:
S3:
S4: I've been speaking with Kristy Brigham , chief of Resource Management and Science at Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks. Kristie , thank you so much.
S3: Thank you so much , Maureen.
S1: As Major League Baseball prepares for tonight's All-Star Game , Padres fans have serious doubts over the team's prospects at the season's halfway mark. Missing their biggest star , the Padres sit at second place in the National League West standings just behind the All-Star host Dodgers. And while San Diego native and Padres ace Joe Musgrove has been a bright spot for the season , poor play , an inconsistent offense has plagued the team in the first half of the season. Joining me now with a midseason Padres update is sportswriter Jay Pierce. Jay , welcome back to Midday Edition.
S3: Hey , thanks for having me. Always great to jump in with you folks.
S1:
S3: I mean , ten games over 500 , you know , second place , 52 and 42. If you would have given Padres fans that option at the beginning of a year , knowing that superstar shortstop Fernando Tatis Jr would wouldn't play a game yet , they probably would sign off on that. But there's always a but in baseball. It's the All-Star break. And Padres fans are saying , give me a break. This isn't happening again , is it ? The Padres have been floundering. They finished July six and ten. They're six and ten in July. They finished June losing eight of 13. They're in a tailspin and they're heading the wrong direction. And they good vibes and good mojo that you think a team would have been ten games over 500. And in second place isn't quite there because of that scar last year when the Padres were 17 games over 500. Then they lost 13. They went 13 and 34 down the stretch. So Padres fans rip that Band-Aid off really hard from last year. They are hoping this year is going to be different. Here we are at the All-Star break looking like it's a summer repeat , if you will. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And as you mentioned , the big question for the team this season has been when star player Fernando Tatis Jr will return.
S3: How's that for being specific ? They think it's going to be in August. It's been a little later than they anticipated , which illustrates the the mystery with a wrist and a wrist injury. I mean , this is serious. And how he comes back , he will be we'll be telling to how the Padres will do go going down the stretch. Of course , he was hurt in a motorcycle accident in the off season. Some people cringe when you're $340 million. Asset is riding a motorcycle. But that's what happens when you're 23 years old and a millionaire. Right. So they're hoping he comes back. But we're saying August their hope in early August. But , you know , I just just hope everybody's a little patient with it now. Tatis is a phenomenal player. And what a generational star for San Diego to hang has had on the wrist are really tricky , especially in golf , especially in baseball. It absorbs so much of the the velocity of making contact with the ball. So hopefully he comes back and with a little time as the tatis that is thrilled so many Padre fans for a couple of years now.
S1: Indeed and now the Padres go into the All-Star break eight games behind the first place Dodgers.
S3: I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here. But the Dodgers are loaded and the Padres , to be realistic , are shooting for a wild card playoff berth there or just getting in the playoffs somehow. Now it's baseball and the wheels could fall off. And this is what makes it such a great game. But the Dodgers are pretty stacked. So do think you're going to reel them in ? Is is optimistic. Is aggressively optimistic. So instead they're focusing on getting another playoff spot and they want to get in the playoffs. It's what you get. It invites the party. You don't know who you end up dancing with. Right. So if they get in the playoffs , they can maybe do some damage. But the Padres are pretty loaded with that big payroll. But we got to illustrate , the Padres are right there with them. I mean , they spent $217 million this year. Only the Dodgers , Mets , Yankees and Phillies spent more dough. So this is no longer the guy. The little Padres. We're a small market , hopefully can get by. They are a major player in money and in roster , but they got to come through and make the playoffs somehow. Somehow they had to do that. But bringing in the Dodgers , that's a that's a heavy lift.
S1: A big storyline this year has been El Cajon native Joe Musgrove and his excellent pitching.
S3: He's going to make a lot of money here real soon. He's in a contract year and his having a career year , you know , the only pitcher , Padre pitcher , to throw a no hitter , which he did last year , is beloved by the Padres fans. And he's he can put you can put his pitching numbers up against anybody in Major League Baseball. He's been that good. But now comes time to cut the checks. So I would doubt that they would let this this hometown grown product leave. He's so popular and so effective. But there's going to be some other suitors out there for for his services. So , you know , they're talking a game , which is good. I think they get something done. But they call him Father Joe. He's going to be Rich Joe here in a couple of months , that's for sure.
S1: And before we go , can you give us some bright spots that fans can look forward to in the back half of the season ? Absolutely.
S3: Two teams coming back is a number one top of the heap. I mean , there's nothing bigger than that. I mean , the energy that he brings , the talent there , it really rubs off on the other players. So getting tattoos back is going to be huge. And and don't forget , Wil Myers , I mean , for a couple of years here , he was the star player. He was the face of the franchise. He's been battling some knee problems. So he's going to return as well to tease. Those are two big names that keep an eye on the guy with the two initials , AJ Preller , the general manager. The trade deadline is coming up August 2nd. He's looking for some outfielders. Don't be surprised if there's some new faces going forward after August 2nd as the Padres make a push to make the playoffs.
S1: I've been speaking with San Diego sportswriter Jay Perez. Jay , as always. Thanks for joining us.
S3: Play ball. Let's go. Nice talking to you.
S4: Today , we're bringing you an excerpt from a new podcast , Imperfect Paradise The Forgotten Revolutionary. KPCC's Adolfo Guzman-Lopez takes a deep dive into the life of Oscar Gomes , who was a Chicano student activist in the 1990s. Some people thought he'd be the next Cesar Chavez.
S3: With enormous cruising down the fear avenue of asylum. This is one that you can see guy in front of the whole coming at you can samples. Oscar hosted La onda Chicano a college radio show out of UC Davis. The early 1990s were an especially xenophobic time in California politics. Oscar focused the show on Mexican-American empowerment. Oscar was on the airwaves , talking education , culture and Chicano self-determination to challenge what goes on. Raza A little Chicano needs the city carnitas and is going to make sure and question the history that you've been taught. Because a lot of times you know that George Washington is not your father. What are these people scared of ? Trust is going to get educated , that they're going to be able to go back and empower their communities. It's something that we've got to ask ourselves and something that we must continue to ask ourselves , because LUCHA continues. Oscar traveled to protests and conferences up and down California and outside the state. He recorded what he saw , the people he met to broadcast to his audience. He gave a radio platform to young Chicano rappers , connected listeners to indigenous thought and tutored public school kids. He made being Chicano sound , fun and exciting. In 1993 , the Mexican-American labor leader Cesar Chavez , died , and without him , there was a leadership void. And here came a long Oscar , a young , handsome , charismatic , politically engaged college student , an inspiring radio host and activist. At just 21 years old.
S4: I just remember tuning in to the campus radio station and having that connection without physically being there.
S6: He was. Fire.
S3: Fire. He was.
S6: Charisma incarnate.
S3: All the girls.
S6: Married with a. Boyfriend.
S3: Boyfriend.
S4: Or single. Everyone had a crush on him.
S3: He knew that this government , it's not for us and that we needed to take action. Yeah. He would have been someone that people could follow. Someone that could walk alongside. Just Chavez , you know ? Two and a half years after that Santa Barbara rally. Two and a half years after that photo of the two of us was taken. I would be out of college and freelancing for weekly newspapers on my way to a public radio career. And Oscar. Oscar was dead.
S4: That was KPCC's Adolfo Guzman-Lopez from the new podcast Imperfect Paradise The Forgotten Revolutionary.
S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen CAVANAUGH. Comic-Con went virtual for two years and then tested the waters last November with a smaller show called Comic-Con Special Edition. Finally , people who bought badges in 2019 will be able to attend a full scale show in person. KPBS arts reporter Beth ACCOMANDO speaks with Comic-Con spokesperson David Glanzer about what to expect.
S3: So David , in.
S4: November , you guys had Comic-Con special edition , which was smaller than the usual summer show.
S8: One of the great things about Special Edition was that it allowed us to kind of get our sea legs back. It's amazing. After two years of not having in-person shows , the stuff that we've kind of forgotten , one would think muscle memory , but. But luckily it's like riding a bike , so it'll be a big show. We have a lot of indoor and outdoor things that are going on with the activations and whatnot. And you know , the show sold out in 2019. We sold the tickets originally in 2019 , so we expect a pretty full and crowded house.
S4:
S8: So one of the things that we found is , you know , the one we realized we couldn't have a show in 2020. We had to cancel that show. So we rolled over those tickets and we rolled them over again from 21 to 22. As you can imagine , after two years , there are certain life situations that have changed with some people. So we got some cancellations. We didn't get a lot of cancellations , not enough to hold a whole other ticket sale. But we did get enough that we put some on eBay as a fundraiser for the Comic-Con Museum. But , you know , again , it's it should be a sold out show. We have a lot of people who are coming , both on the exhibit floor , and people have already bought tickets. So we hope to have a great time.
S4: Now in November.
S6: Hall H was not used.
S4: And the exhibit floor.
S6: Wasn't as big. But this summer it's all returning to Hall.
S4: H and Hollywood studios.
S8: It is. There's a lot of Hollywood studios. There's a lot of television networks. There's comics and book publishers. It will be , you know , Comic-Con , I think has as we remember it. I imagine it'll be a little bit different because we do have a mask mandate , so people will be seeing everybody wearing a mask. Whereas before that , you saw mostly people in costume with masks. But one of the great things is that it really is an opportunity for us to have a community again , to get together again. We're very grateful that a lot of the studios who are the networks of the different publishers are coming back to Comic-Con to not only show and talk about all the new stuff that they're going to be premiering , but I think also to interact with the fans. Comic-Con A has always been a great opportunity for those entities to to hear directly from the people who buy their tickets and buy their books.
S6: And you mentioned masks. What are going.
S4:
S8: And to distill it , it basically is a mask mandate. If you are attending Comic-Con , you'll need to have proof of vaccination or a negative test. You'll be required to wear a mask when you're inside the facility or at any outside Comic-Con event. And we're using this year for the first time an online app called Clear and Clear is used by a lot of airports and different concerts and other venues. So that should help the process a lot. But it's the same policy that we had during Comic-Con Special Edition and also at our sister show in Anaheim , WonderCon.
S4: And I saw online that there is a map of places to get your verification.
S6: So it looks like this year you're going to have more locations available for people to check in. Right.
S8: Right. Because there's a lot more people coming. There will be more locations to be verified. And again , if they avail themselves of the app , that should speed up processes , too , because I assume the on site locations , you know , if people are bringing their their cards and their information and doing the verification there , it may take a little bit of time. So the app will hopefully speed things up a little bit.
S4: And with COVID being so unpredictable , if people end up getting COVID right before.
S6: The show.
S4: Do they have any options in terms of getting a refund.
S6:
S8: We'll have to take that on a case by case basis right now because these tickets are rolled over for two years that we really had no income. For two years , we had some small income with our awesome sponsorships that we were very grateful for some companies taking part in. But it's financially it might be kind of challenging to be able to do those refunds if there are people who end up getting sick. Clearly we don't want them to come to the show. So I think we'll handle that on a on a case by case basis.
S4: Now , you mentioned not being able.
S6: To generate income. Are you able to generate.
S4: Income with this show , since the fact is you sold many of these tickets back in 2019 ? Sure.
S8: Luckily for us , the. Ticket sales from 2019 gives us the ability to put on this show so that revenue is really specifically for this show. So that's good. One of the things we are able to do is so sponsorship , so you'll see building wraps , you'll see signs and all that. We get a in some instances a percentage of those. So that helps to replenish our coffers a bit. And then in the fall , we'll be selling tickets for the 2023 show and hopefully that will , you know , people will want to attend and those ticket sales will go well. And then we'll be back on a road to a full recovery. But it'll take a little bit of time.
S6: To the outside public , they may not realize all the things that Comic-Con has to spend their money on. I mean , it's obvious.
S4: That you have to pay a rental for the convention center.
S6:
S8: And as it should be , I mean , whether it's the shuttle buses that bring people to the convention facility , whether it's , you know , security and we have a tremendous amount of security , whether it's , you know , other logistics in terms of renting rooms , renting different areas for people to go , for people to be. We are very , very grateful that we have a great many volunteers who augment our staff. We have about 6000 volunteers we use for the course of the year. So that helps us a great deal. We try to get as many sponsorships as we can to defray our costs. Yeah , everything costs money. But , you know , as it should be. I mean , we're all in the business. And so it it it makes sense. It's just sometimes it's rather costly.
S6: I remember one year it was having stickers removed.
S3: An expense.
S8: You're absolutely right. So we we're somewhat adamant about people not buying stickers and not using stickers because oftentimes they will fix them to places throughout the image center and there is a fee for taking those off. Typically , we have to bear the brunt of that.
S4: Now , one thing that's different this year.
S6: Is the souvenir program.
S4: Which has a wonderful cover of The Rocketeer , is going to be made available digitally. And what prompted.
S8: That ? Again , it's a it's a cost cutting measure , the the printing of the book. Typically , we print in excess of 150,000 of those that it's a it's a very , very large budget expenditure. A lot of that is offset by the advertising within the book , though , that advertising , I don't think has ever really defrayed the cost of of of the book itself. I will say , though , that one of the great things about that is anybody , anywhere in the world will be able to download that book. So that's good. The is certainly will be accessible to people.
S6: And you mentioned outside activations. Does the level of outside activations look to be.
S4: About on.
S6:
S8: I think what they are doing may be a little bit different. I think , you know , we're all taking precautions. But the number of companies that have come back. Yeah , it's it's it's right where it used to be. I think one of the things really about Comic-Con is not just comics and related popular art films and and television shows and comic books and of that nature. But what's really great is the outside activations that allow people to kind of be immersive in certain elements of pop culture that they enjoy or popular arts that will happen again this year.
S6: All right. Well , thank you very much.
S8: Thank you.
S1: That was Beth ACCOMANDO speaking with David Glanzer. Comic-Con preview night is tomorrow with the show continuing through Sunday at the San Diego Convention Center and its extended campus.