Are San Diego theaters meeting the call for greater diversity?

S1: Theaters in San Diego , both large and small , are coming back from the rupture of the pandemic. They're working to excite audiences. And welcome back actors , many of whom have been doing other things over the past few years and reestablish San Diego as a major regional theater hub. But as local theater revives itself , it's also committed to eliminating racist policies that have kept actors and creators of color marginalized , overlooked and silenced. Today , we're talking about how local theater groups woke up to the racism in their ranks and if they're doing enough to fix it. KPBS arts reporter Beth Accomando is here. Hi , Beth. Hi.

S2: Hi. Thank you.

S1: And William J. Robinson also joins us. He's a San Diego artist as well as host of both Tough Talk , a biweekly virtual discussion series and KPBS. Art. BJ , welcome to the program.

S3: Thank you for having me.

S1: So let me start with you , Beth , and help us recall the oddity of last June when San Diego Repertory suspended operations just as accusations of racism and misogyny were brought against the company.

S4: So the statement was made by actress Mikayla Bartholomew and director Jess McLeod. And I want to just read basically the opening of this letter , which contained a litany of complaints. And so what they stated was from poor financial decisions to rampant racism , misogyny , misogyny , noir , mismanagement , predatory efforts to take advantage of newly unionized bipoc creatives , discrimination and disrespect , racial profiling of hired artists , physical intimidation , ill care following injury , lack of support for bipoc artists and art making , and the constant refusal to acknowledge that you were and are the root of the issues at hand. We see only the tip of the iceberg. So , you know , this was a lot to come out. And you know , the fact that the rep was suspending production and that its co-founder , Sam Woodhouse , was planning to retire last September , I think sort of deflated some of the criticism in terms of , you know , the company was sort of going away. So these issues were also raised , interestingly on the Rep's own podcast called We Are Listening , which was produced in conjunction with La Jolla Playhouse. So , you know , these issues were being made public and were out in the open. And I think basically , you know , brought to a forefront stuff that had been happening for quite some time.

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S3: And at the same time , there is still a great deal of work to do , kind of parking to what Beth mentioned in some of the issues brought up by the cast of the Great Con. A lot of the challenges they faced in that production are not new challenges and are certainly challenges that a lot of artists of of various marginalized identities here in San Diego have faced at SD Rep and at other locations over the years. There have been moments where there have been a collective , a greater collective awareness of the people making decisions to hear artists and to understand what some of these challenges and problems are and to find new ways to overcome those challenges. But there seems to be a never ending habit of kind of almost throwing in the towel after so much effort and getting back to a focus on the capitalism and the consumerism that theater also brings in , especially here in San Diego. For.

S5: For.

S1: The Outside Observer. Okay , you look at the San Diego rep and you see that in recent years it's launched the Latinx New Play Festival , as well as the Black Voices Play Reading series. So as I say on the outside at least , the Rep was one of the most diverse theater groups. Let me ask you both let me start with BJ. What was missing. With.

S6: With.

S3: Regards to the rep ? You could say in many ways they wrote the rubric on the boxes that needed to be checked to understand how to implement and celebrate diversity in San Diego. Now , that rubric , I think , was written a long time ago and did not necessarily receive the updates that it might have needed along the way to a point where the rep , very much like you said , did look to be an organization that was really reaching out to the communities , that was really celebrating different artists and bringing different stories and different folks. Courses with festivals into their productions. And at the same time they clearly were continuing in practices that were harmful to to many artists. And so what I think what was missing was the collective awareness on are we actually meeting people where they are ? Are we actually caring and understanding for the artists that we're bringing in , or are we assuming a position of knowing better.

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S3: While some problems have not changed for decades , many certainly have become more nuanced as we've had a greater understanding that not all black people are the same , not all Latinx people are the same. And while you may continue in specific pursuits to celebrate diversity , you may also be creating blinders to moments where you are falling short in having equitable , authentic representation and celebration.

S1: And Beth , I get from what BJ is saying , that this doesn't even automatically happen if you have people of color in management in theater companies.

S4: And that includes people of color in administration , but also just the sense that just because we're putting on a play by a black artist that may not be enough. Is the company supporting that particular black artists point of view and voice ? Are they trying to change like how that director or that writer might want to cast the show specific ways that they may want their characters to speak ? I mean , how deep does the support of those artists go ? And , you know , that's hard for the public to determine because we can't see what changes are being made behind the scenes. We have to rely on the artists themselves coming forward and saying , I didn't really get to have my voice heard because of this , this and this. But then what this also points to is that because the rep was giving artists of color an opportunity to showcase their work , that also made it harder for some of the local artists , I think , to speak out because here they are getting an opportunity , which I'm sure they relished. But how do you speak out against the person who might be giving you that opportunity and not threaten your own career or not jeopardize your chance of doing something else ? Or , you know , any number of things. So it's really complicated. And I think it goes to the depth of the issue in the sense of how far deep down do we really start to need to make changes.

S1: Because this is such a complex issue and the problems go are so fundamental , it seems.

S3: At the same time , I think that is something most people fear. I think there's such a great fear of publicly explaining oneself or one's choices and one's actions due to anything that may happen from it , from ridicule to to shame to being ostracized. And and yet I think that's always going to be where it comes back to , that we need to have a bit more transparent , open conversations about what our needs are , what our challenges are , as well as how we check in on each other to to actually assess and evaluate progress or challenges as they are being met.

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S3: Believe that is a part of the problem. There are some theaters that I think the eyes is on the financial prize. However , I think there are plenty of theaters who have their sights set on truly meeting their own goals for being safe havens of diversity and representation and equitable practices. But at the same time they are burdened by the capitalist needs to to sustain themselves , to stay afloat. One of the statements I know I've heard just timelessly for decades is that any organization would do more for diversity or would do more for greater representation or better access if they had the money to do so. But they can only afford to either have so many programs or so many productions or take a risk on some sort of event that might ultimately lose funding regardless of how much they put into it , and that there certainly is a hindrance out of out of the capitalism behind things.

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S4: And I just want to dovetail off of what BJ said. And I mean , money is key on multiple levels. And , you know , one of the things that would help enormously is if there was more financial support for theater as a whole , because if a large company didn't have to worry about a particular show making a profit at the box office or doing well , they might gamble on more young artists , local artists , plays that haven't had a chance , and smaller companies would have more opportunities to put on plays and reach people if they had more funding. I mean , so , you know , the audience has to do a little research themselves. So think about. Who you're supporting with your money and respond to what the shows actually are. Did you feel that they satisfied you on any of a number of levels ? Were they good productions ? Did they represent who you feel you are or who you feel those characters were accurately ? And if you had an issue , say something.

S1: I've been speaking with KPBS arts reporter Beth Accomando and William B.J. Robinson , who's a San Diego artist and host of Tough Talk and KPBS Art. And when we come back , we'll hear how local theaters and performers are working for change. And. We'd love to hear from you about diversity in San Diego theater or your overall thoughts on the show. Give us a call at (619) 452-0228 and leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. Coming up , how diversity may change what people expect from theater.

S7: To convince our audiences that that is not just about entertainment , but about getting to know different communities , focusing on what theater actually does.

S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition.

S4: Hi , you're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Beth Accomando. And to continue the discussion about the push for diversity in the San Diego theater community , I have two guests , and I want them to introduce themselves.

S7: My name is Danielle Cox , and I introduce myself , as I would say it , in Mexico in Spanish , just so people will know what culture I bring into the room. I want to clarify that I am a white Mexican and I am a theater director. I am also a translator. So I started a theater company called Toyo Theater here in San Diego. I am still on the board , but I'm no longer on the artistic panel. But I've also started another collective called Camino 23 Collective.

S8: My name is Lamar Perry. I use he him pronouns , but truthfully , anything said , respectfully. I'm a black queer freelance director and I'm also an associate professor in directing at UC San Diego in the department of Theater and dance. Although San Diego Community is probably known me most for my work as the associate producer at the Old Globe , which I just ended my tenure at last year.

S4: So in the previous segment , we discussed the accusations of racism and misogyny that came out against the San Diego Rep.

S8: What I will say is , I think while on a local level , that event spurred conversation further , I will say on a systemic level , looking at the larger theaters in town , La Jolla Playhouse in the Old Globe , there were already substantive conversations happening based on quote unquote , the racial reckoning that happened in 2020 , which I quote that because as a queer black person , like a racial reckoning is is something that we're born into. It's not something that like suddenly happened or a singular event in this country , but it is a specific historical point of of consciousness that happened in the American theater. I'll point. So I feel like those conversations were already well underway prior to that event happening. I do think , however , that that specific event did galvanize the San Diego theatrical community around being more specific in developing language of accountability and how to have public conversations about harm , atonement and restitution as folks were looking to maneuver through whatever was happening over there. And I think that like moments like that that teach people the language and the activity of empowerment , of naming abuse and of naming systems to be able to engage in conversations is never actually a bad thing.

S9: And Daniel , I.

S7: Wholeheartedly agree with what Lamar just said. I do want to point out that the conversations had been happening , as he pointed out. But what took this catalyst was a company that weren't fearful of not being hired , company that was trained and has used their voice to to stand up for this kind of abuse. They've been a lot of issues with San Diego Rep for a while , but people just , you know , oh , this is how we are. This is what's been happening. And we weren't able to stand up to represent ourselves in this environment until somebody from out of town that had nothing really to lose say enough talk.

S4: About some of the challenges that theaters face and that the public faces in terms of trying to figure out where is real change happening and how can we really make significant change. That goes kind of deep.

S7: If you look at the current leaders of all the theaters here , they are still white male , right ? Mostly. But if you look at their websites and their proposals , they they do have a very robust anti racism statement. But there are still issues within the people that hire in the background , the people that they put on the stages , the plays that they decide to put on. And yes , there's there's been several theaters that have been producing works by non-white artists. Right. Which is amazing. But then they produced them in a way that doesn't really represent the full value and depth of what these voices have to offer. That's also a disservice to communities right into our stories.

S8: I think I want to. Yes. And everything Danielle said in this moment of like radical transformation where the American theater and particularly the regional theater , are inviting more diverse voices into spaces , producers really as actors , as playwrights , directors really like , what does that support look like ? And I think what I want to get at is like , it is not enough to only program those folks. There has to be substantive thought put forward into. Like what are the wellness practices that we are establishing to take care of those folks in a space that we recognize is predominantly white and is traditionally caused this group of folks harm and violence and systemically , how are we ensuring that those practices then become a part of the larger system and culture of our institution , as opposed to a singular moment in which we're supporting the black cast or the Latino cast ? What what does moving forward look like ? Looking forward to me means like really centering wellness practices that put people of color , queer folks , female and femme identified folks at the forefront of thoughts as opposed to at the back end of thought and really thinking about like what it is not only to provide space and opportunity , but what it is to provide space and opportunity that is done courageously , that's done bravely , and that also facilitate safety for those people to be empowered to do their best work. Again. How are you thinking systemically about taking care of us to protect us from a system that we know inherently harms us so that we're then empowered to do our best work ? Because that's what's going to be evaluated by audiences and board members and a litany of other folks who contribute to if we're going to return to that space or if our work is deemed valuable in any given space , are we being set up for success ? Is space being curated for us to do that safely ? And then how do those practices show up in a larger system , in culture , at an institution to shift , to make sure that then moving forward , folks continue to feel welcomed and we continue to build on those practices as opposed to making them one offs that seek to serve a singular production.

S7: I do want to add also that people have been moving forward , especially here in San Diego , or maybe because I know them a little bit better now. So I understand those dynamics and I've personally encountered that the issue now is not longer the artistic leadership , but convincing our board members , convincing our audiences to stay and listen to these stories that they need. I think that has been proven a larger battle here in San Diego than in other cities , that to convince our audiences that that these stories are worth it , that it's not just about entertainment , but about getting to know different communities and really focusing on what theater actually does. Right. It's just a battle in so many fronts that we cannot keep our finger off the margin. Right.

S10: Right.

S8: And I think also to also name like the larger issue that we're talking about best , like everything falls under the lens of capitalism because the American system of theater is not subsidized by the government. You know , you get into these systems or regional theaters are at the taste of their audiences , of their donors , of the various folks who , like , provide philanthropic support. And that is a model that was birthed out of like the reduction in funds from the NEA and a litany of other like cuts in like federal funding and government funding for the arts. So like what we're actually talking about on a systemic level when we're talking about support and like radical transformation in the American theater is not just transformation like on a granular level , institution by institution , but also like a reimagination in our governmental budgetary structure of how we support the arts. How do we engage with lobbyists with policy that moves back to , you know , subsidizing and supporting arts and arts education in the country ? Yes.

S7: And , you know , to add. Yes. And the producing organizations , you know , we talk a lot about , oh , they're setting us up to fail because they don't give us the same resources that they give a different production. And that goes into the conversation of what the regional theaters were set up to be originally and how that system has failed because we don't do much. The big regional theaters don't do much local work right in this conversation. I don't want the the thing to get lost of because we've only been talking about the larger theaters ever since 2020. There's the Black Theater Alliance that form Common Ground , which has been around for a long time , is being in residency at La Jolla Playhouse. So bravo to both of them , to your theater , which we started six , seven years ago. We're still in operations. There's mascara magica. That's an old , old company. There's broken Theater arts that it's mostly Filipino and Latino that have done the really beautiful work. There's theater , San Diego , the new theater company. So I think the MeToo movement also created this , this voice of saying , okay , they don't let us into the table. Let's create our own table and zoom. Here we go.

S4:

S8: Of success is knowing that the person who was once the most vulnerable now has access and power in a space that when I see trans and non-binary folks of color occupying space , that traditionally means that other people who are not as marginalized as those folks also have access in that space. What I'm looking for with diversity specifically is not just like diversity and justice for black folks. What diversity actually means to me is that everyone actually has an equal piece of the pie and gets to play and have access to resources and power in the same way as everyone else. So I think that's what the measurement looks like for me , that those who have traditionally been marginalized and shut out in the most vulnerable occupy space in leadership and production and also that everyone does , you know , I'm not advocating for a singular group. I'm advocating for liberation for all.

S7: Another measure I would probably think about was really analyzing who our audiences are , because if the place represents us , the audience will be there. Right ? And really look into procedures on how they're marketing the stories and leadership.

S4: We've barely scratched the surface of this , and I appreciate all the input.

S7: Just because I'm like an independent artist here and I'm supportive of all these smaller companies , I would really love the larger institutions and the arts organizations to really support all these. The list of companies that I listed earlier with space , we need space. We can't really live by begging larger theaters to let me borrow your days off space or let me rent this for three days. Local governments and local art institutions should support the smaller theaters , basically. Yeah. Shop local , for example. That kind of same philosophy. I think what.

S8: Gives me hope , Beth , in this moment are people and community and I want to name specifically like the folks in my community who are on the front lines of doing work and work that like galvanizes not only community , but I think change on a national level and like and I just want to shout them out and love them on them for a second , you know ? So that's the cool kitchen. That's Eric Keene. Louis That's Delicia Turner. Sonnenburg. Kim Hale. Christopher Ashley. Barry Edelstein. Danielle Majors. Amato. Vanessa Starling. Ursula meyer. Stephen Bisher. There are some really amazing folks in town who are contending with what the future of the American theater looks like and what a better , more healthy , more sustainable version of the American theater looks like. But when I think about the conversations that these folks are having at their larger institutions , the way they're modeling leadership for the rest of the country , the way that they're embracing local communities and change on a systemic and a financial level , and also trying to then contend with where they fit in a larger national conversation. I'm really encouraged by my peers who are doing hard and beautiful and impactful work. I'm encouraged. Do I think everything is perfect ? Absolutely not. Do I think that we all have a long way to go ? Absolutely. But I think that's not just relegated just to the American theater , that that's that's access work in general. And speaking as someone like as a black queer plus size film who like is constantly waiting to , like , feel safe in this world. I know the people who have lifted me up , who have held me and can again only speak from my perspective and who have encouraged me to continue to hope and to to push forward as we , you know , all hope for things to continue to to get better and to figure this out together.

S4: I want to thank you both very much for talking about local San Diego theater. And I hope this is not the end of the discussion.

S8: Absolutely not.

S7:

S4: I've been speaking with theater director Danielle Marquez and professor and theater director Lamar Perry. I'm Beth Accomando , and you've been listening to Midday Edition.