57 Deaths In San Diego County This Week, As Cases And Hospitalizations Slow

Speaker 1: 00:00 A pandemic update ahead of the booster shot rollout Speaker 2: 00:05 Assessment is, is that there's a third dose of booster dose. Is it safe? And is it effective? Speaker 1: 00:10 I'm Jade Hindman Marine Kavanaugh is off. This is KPBS mid-day edition. San Diego county moves to allow home kitchens to open for business. Speaker 3: 00:29 The proposal couldn't come at a better time. It absolutely needed in our communities in San Diego Speaker 1: 00:36 And hear about a Mexican wrestling leagues effort to branch out into a new generation of fans. Plus our summer music series continues that's ahead on midday edition. Speaker 1: 01:01 A recent CDC report found that if you are not vaccinated, you are 11 times more likely to die from COVID. As compared to those who are vaccinated here in San Diego county, 57 additional COVID deaths were reported this week. That brings us to a total of 3,983 lives lost in our community due to the Corona virus. We know that the typical two shot regimen of Pfizer or Medina and J and J is one shot decrease the risk of hospitalization and death. But what about the question of booster shots who should get one? How does that impact those who haven't been vaccinated yet? And how important is it in the fight against coronavirus joining us to discuss this is Dr. Mark Sawyer and infectious disease specialist with Rady children's hospital and UC San Diego. Dr. Saw your advises, the FDA CDC, and the state on vaccinations. Welcome back Dr. Sawyer. It was great Speaker 2: 01:57 To join you. Speaker 1: 01:58 As I mentioned, the county reported 57 new deaths this week. How does that compare to previous weeks and previous surges? Speaker 2: 02:06 Well, we've certainly been at that level in the past. It looks like we're just starting on the down slope of this most recent peak. So we have had higher numbers in the past, but the deaths typically lag a little bit behind the cases. So I'm not sure we're over the worst of it. Speaker 1: 02:23 How do the demographics of those we're seeing die from COVID in this surge compared to earlier surges? Like the one we saw during the winter? Speaker 2: 02:31 Well, the majority of people who are getting severely ill and dying of COVID are elderly. Although we do see serious disease and younger adults, and even in children, you know, we, the demographics of people who are getting back's unaided pretty much predict the demographics of who's going to be suffering hospitalization or even death from COVID. Because as you mentioned, the vaccine is very effective at keeping you out of the hospital dying. And so there are subgroups of our population that remain under immunized, and those are the people who are getting sick. Speaker 1: 03:06 You know, as, as we've talked about many times on this show, and you just mentioned deaths from COVID are a lagging indicator of how widespread COVID is in the community. Overall cases and hospitalizations have been slowly declining over the last few weeks. Could that mean we're coming out of the Delta surge at all? Speaker 2: 03:24 I think it does mean that, you know, this has been, uh, now our third big peak and the previous two sort of follow the kind of shape or curve that we're seeing now with a gradual decline after the maximum level. So I'm hopeful that we're over the immediate problem, but, you know, we will have another surge unless we get a higher percentage of our population immunized Speaker 1: 03:48 With this Delta surge and in-person school being back in session, are we seeing more cases and hospitalizations among children than previously? Speaker 2: 03:56 We are seeing more cases in children. Part of that certainly may do be due to getting back to school. And there have been some outbreaks in schools generally relatively small, but, and we were concerned that getting back to school would raise the overall community level. But so far that hasn't happened. Part of the reason we're seeing more cases in kids is simply the fact that younger kids under age 12, as we know, are not yet able to be vaccinated. So they're all completely vulnerable to the infection. Speaker 1: 04:27 You are on a panel that will advise the FDA on booster shots. That panel will be meeting tomorrow first. How do booster shots work? Uh, they're not like flu shots that are tailored to that year's flu season, right? Speaker 2: 04:41 It's your immune system has been exposed to an infectious agent or a vaccine. It remembers that that agent our backseat and when you're exposed to it again, it takes off with a really bigger Russ response and raises your level of immune protection. Usually we measure that with antibodies. And so the booster dose that we're talking about tomorrow is to get people who've already received one or two doses of vaccine and are fully immunized and then give them another dose six or eight months later to raise up their immune response. That's a different approach than we do with influenza. With influenza. We partly are boosting the immune response, but we're also changing the vaccine to match the strain that's circulating in the community. Now we may get there with Delta, with COVID or SARS Coby two as well, because as we know it is changing that Delta is an example of that change. So the companies are also preparing new versions of the vaccine, the way we do with influenza. Speaker 1: 05:48 What do you anticipate will happen at tomorrow's panel meeting Speaker 2: 05:52 The role of FDA, which is what this advisory committee is for is to assess the safety and the effectiveness of the backseat. That's a different question than who should get the vaccine, whether it should go to everybody or only to subsets of the population. So tomorrow's assessment is, is the, is a third dose of booster dose. Is it safe? And is it effective? And I'm still reviewing the pre material that we've been given ahead of the meeting. And there will be several hours worth of presentations at the meeting and discussion around what the data shows, Speaker 1: 06:30 You know, booster shots. They are approved for those who are immunocompromised. And I've heard about them being recommended for healthcare workers and older adults. But do you think the majority of people will need them at all? Speaker 2: 06:42 That's a very good question. And I don't really have an answer to that. Uh, we're still trying to look at what the impact of booster doses would be on transmission of infection. We've already said that once you've got the primary vaccine, you're pretty well protected from getting put in the hospital and dying, but you can still transmit the infection. So if we learn that booster doses cut down that transmission or eliminated completely, then we might give them to everybody. So we can get over with this pandemic, Speaker 1: 07:14 Uh, beyond whether booster shots are effective or safe. What about the question of booster shots, making vaccines less available to those who have yet to be vaccinated, whether within the us or abroad? Speaker 2: 07:26 Uh, I don't think that boosters are going to have any impact on availability in the United States. There is plenty of vaccine. The reason people aren't are not fully vaccinated is not because they don't have access or availability. That's very different in other parts of the world. And part of the answer to your question is, you know, what would be the impact of, uh, not giving boosters in the United States and distributing those vaccines elsewhere? How much would that impact the worldwide supply? And I don't have the answer to that. And fortunately, that's not going to be the point of discussion at tomorrow's meeting. That's up to CDC to decide from a policy perspective. What makes the most sense from a, from a public health viewpoint, Speaker 1: 08:13 This most recent surge isn't anywhere near the one we had last winter with 2.1 million San Diego wins now fully vaccinated. I mean, are we in a good position to avoid one this upcoming winter? Speaker 2: 08:25 That's a great question. It depends on a couple of things. It depends on whether we can get the rest of our population better immunized the folks who've yet to get immunized. It depends a little on what the virus does and whether it continues to change and new variants come up. And it depends on whether people are still, uh, diligent in wearing masks in indoor settings and distancing when they can, and being careful not to go to work or school when they're sick, if all of those things happen, I think we're in great shape for avoiding another huge peak. And again, I'm encouraged by the fact that so far, getting kids back into school has not created a big surge in our community. Speaker 1: 09:09 I've been speaking with Dr. Mark Sawyer and infectious disease specialist with Rady children's hospital and UC San Diego. Dr. Saw advisors, the FDA CDC, and the state on vaccines. Dr. [inaudible] thank you so much for joining us. Speaker 1: 09:34 Micro enterprise home kitchen operations or Mykonos is a concept that will allow people to legally sell food from their home kitchens here in San Diego county, the plan was passed by the state in 2018, and permits are granted on a county by county basis, San Diego county supervisors, nor of our guests and Joel Anderson proposed permitting home kitchens in the county. And yesterday the plan received a three to oh, vote by the San Diego county board of supervisors to start the process joining me as supervisor, nor of our guests and an owner of a local home kitchen. Diana top piece. Welcome to you both. Speaker 4: 10:09 Thank you. Happy to be here. Speaker 2: 10:11 Hello. Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me Speaker 1: 10:15 Indeed. So supervisor Vargas, I'll start with you. Why did you and supervisor Anderson decided to bring this proposal to the board? Speaker 4: 10:23 Well, I was thrilled to be able to introduce the sport letter a with supervisor Anderson because of what these micro enterprise home kitchens do for our community. Really, it allows entrepreneurs to launch, you know, launch their home enterprise, uh, by reducing overhead and some of the barriers that people's people from starting a business. And so, you know, I think it's really important right now, uh, that, you know, we, we have opportunities for our pandemics. Um, these folks really represent an informal food economy that have been present in our communities for years, but they really bloomed, uh, during the pandemic. And so now we want them to come out and make sure that they're illegal and that they're able to have these home-based businesses that really create a more inclusive and equitable food economy. Speaker 1: 11:09 What are some of the benefits of this proposal being approved now? Speaker 4: 11:13 Well, first and foremost, we're directing the chief administrative officer to come back to the board within 120 days to create an ordinance to authorize these kitchens, uh, to be, uh, available, right. It also, uh, is going to provide an opportunity to do outreach and, and receive input from community stakeholders. Um, and it also is going to create an opportunity for educational programs on how to operate one of these micro enterprises. And so, you know, one of the biggest issues right now is that there's a cost significant barrier for someone who started off in the food industry, right? It has to, you have to pay about $400,000. It's about the average startup for a cost of a brick and mortar restaurant. And if you want to get a food truck, everything just around $30,000 and annual rent for our commercial kitchen is about $45,000. And so what this does, it allows our community members to do this from the comfort of their home, and to be able to ensure that they're providing, um, safe and healthy and delicious food, uh, for our communities. Speaker 4: 12:13 What's really important to emphasize too, is that we need to lift up these non-traditional food intrepreneurs, uh, because usually there are women, immigrants, people of color, uh, people who have historically faced barriers. And the fact that they're breaking these barriers to become entrepreneurs in their own, right, uh, I think is this is what the, what we want for our communities, as we're thinking about economic prosperity and opportunity. So I'm excited about this initiative. I'm excited that, uh, both supervisor understood and I were able to introduce it and I'm looking forward to the benefits that it will bring to our community. Speaker 1: 12:48 And Diana, what are your thoughts on this proposal and how will this impact you personally, Speaker 3: 12:53 This proposal couldn't come at a better time. It absolutely needed in our communities in San Diego. A lot of people thrive during the pandemic, through selling food in their home. Personally, I didn't even know, um, my food was definitely a needed community. Um, and through the pandemic, not only did the, is it proven that a lot of people are doing it out there? It's we need this ordinance in order for us to come out and legally be able to, to do this without being afraid of anybody knocking on our door without being afraid, anybody coming and taking our equipment from the health department, it gives us comfortability that we're doing the right thing, serving safe food and following city guidelines. Speaker 1: 13:39 Do you anticipate it increasing the amount of business you get? Speaker 3: 13:43 Yes, absolutely. We've worked in a commercial kitchen before and in the commercial kitchen, we were selling a lot of food. Uh, we know definitely that working from home, isn't going to work for us for a long time, but right now immediately, it lets us open our doors again and feed our customers Speaker 1: 14:00 And supervisor Vargas. What are the steps to start a Mikko? Speaker 4: 14:04 Well, right now what we're doing is we're making sure, uh, that folks are able to have, uh, the, the licenses from the county. And so, although this information will be available once the ordinance is actually, uh, brought back to our county staff, we're really looking into all of the details at this time, but you know, what's really important to note is that there's about 60 or so meals that you can do a week, right? Um, about 10 a day. So, um, it'll really provide folks with an opportunity, uh, to be able to provide, you know, any type of food or, or dessert or party snacks for their friends and their neighbors without, uh, you know, being faced with any challenges. Speaker 1: 14:47 Diana, you know, people have been long selling food out of their home kitchens. Why will you, and why do you think others should go through the process of getting this permit? Speaker 3: 14:57 Most importantly, food safety, the city has it as a guideline for a reason. And I believe that everybody should follow these guidelines and get these permits. Not only to be able to function as a legal business, but also to learn the fundamentals of food safety. Had we not gone ourselves through all the certain safety certifications, we would have never learned the depth of that. It takes to keep food safe, uh, by city ordinance and by state law Speaker 1: 15:25 Supervisor Vargas. I, how many counties in California have authorized these Migos? Speaker 4: 15:30 My understanding is that there are at least two that have already authorized it in Riverside and San Bernardino and have been very successful. And so, uh, of course it's a state law and, and it's up to us as counties to make sure that we're implementing it. And like I stated, we're working closely with our local, uh, councils city councils to make sure that that, uh, we're partners as we are developing the ordinance. And I'm happy to say that some of the, particularly the cities in south county have already expressed interest in being partners in this process. Speaker 1: 16:02 Question two, once someone has one of these licensed home kitchens, is there a process for how they will be monitored going forward? Speaker 4: 16:10 Well, that's the beauty of this ordinance that we're creating and the, uh, the CAO is coming back to us in 120 days to the board to really share with us what this is going to look like. And I am going to be looking at things like food safety, uh, permit, education, outreach, and education for me is really important because sometimes when people don't even know that it exists, I want to make sure that it's in language, right? So that we can have it in the different, uh, languages so that people can have access to it. And then I want to make sure that it's not too costly for folks to be able to have these permits and make it accessible to everyone. So, you know, we're, we're looking forward to hearing back home our CAO, and we're happy to come back and share all those details. Once we officially have the ordinance in place, Speaker 1: 16:51 I've been speaking with San Diego county supervisor nor have our guests and an owner of a local home kitchen Dianna top piece. Thank you both for joining us. Speaker 4: 16:59 Thank you for having us. Thank you Speaker 3: 17:01 Very much. My pleasure. Thank you for everything. Speaker 5: 17:12 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 17:18 You're listening to KPBS day edition. I'm Jade Hindman Marine Kavanaugh is off governor Gavin Newsome has until October 10th to decide whether to sign a bill that softens production quotas for warehouse workers assembly, bill 7 0 1 is widely seen as targeted at Amazon, which runs more than 60 warehouses across the state. But that's not all as KQ EDS. Rachel Myro reports behind Speaker 6: 17:44 Amazon's big yellow place. Your order button is a vast network of filled with close to a million logistics employees across the country, 40,000 in the inland empire alone. But if the tech obsessed retailer is famous for using robots, sensors, and software to maximize productivity, it's also infamous for driving warehouse workers to the exit doors, with repetitive stress injuries and well stress. Speaker 7: 18:13 You come up with this rate. Was it based on what your understanding of what the human body can do, or is it based on what you think that you need to get through in order to make a profit this quarter? Speaker 6: 18:22 That's [inaudible] head of the warehouse worker resource center in Ontario, San Bernardino and Riverside counties together serve as the cargo throughput for much of America, west of Chicago trucks and trains move. What comes through the ports of LA and long beach to the inland empire where imported goods are redistributed in warehouses onto long haul trucks for transportation east Amazon's rivals like Walmart and home Depot are nipping at the tech Titans heels eager to adapt its algorithmically driven strategies to maximize productivity. Speaker 7: 18:59 It's not that those companies can't afford to do the right thing. It's that they've figured out what they can get away with. And if they're not held accountable, that's what they'll continue to do. Speaker 6: 19:06 Cause GCs AB 7 0 1 is a compromise between union organizers and big business. Amazon declined to comment on the legislation, but a spokeswoman wrote the company abides by state and federal laws, including paid breaks and ready access to toilet facilities. What's sitting on governor Newsome's desk would prohibit the kinds of company policies like ever shifting production quotas, or time off task penalties that psychologically pressure workers to forgo their state mandated breaks or wait till their shift is over to use the bathroom. Speaker 8: 19:43 The existing law is that, I mean, in general in California, why is that? It just hasn't kept up with the state of technological change. Speaker 6: 19:52 Beth good Telia is research director at the university of Illinois at Chicago center for urban economic development. She takes particular interest in the way the bill, the first of its kind in the nation requires warehouse operators to disclose quotas and work speed metrics to employees and government agencies. Right Speaker 8: 20:13 Now we just, it's kind of a black box. And I think the case of Amazon offers us pretty ample evidence that we can't just rely on companies to weigh these costs and benefits and act in the interest of workers. Someone else has to do that. And that is traditionally what government's role has been Speaker 6: 20:30 The question above and beyond whether the governor signs AB 7 0 1 is how committed California regulators are to that oversight role with more than 200,000 people in the state working in warehouses. It's not a small question Speaker 8: 20:45 That was K Q E D is Myro Speaker 1: 20:47 For the California report. If you're looking for the high flying theatrics and over the top flare of Lucia Lee Bray, Mexican wrestling, you don't have to go south of the border to see it in person. In fact, you only have to go as far as Logan Heights, where a local brewery is exposing a new generation of fans to the traditional spectacle. Take a listen. Speaker 5: 21:28 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 21:30 San Diego union Tribune reporter Andrea Lopez via Fania joins us now with more Andrea. Welcome. Hi, Speaker 9: 21:38 Thank you for having me. Speaker 1: 21:39 So tell us a little bit about Lucia Lee Bray and its popularity here in the United States. Speaker 9: 21:45 Yeah, I mean, Lucia, Leavis huge. I mean, many of us who are Latinos, we instantly feel a sense of, you know, recognizing it whenever we see it, right. Lucido is wearing these really colorful mass. And uh, sometimes these really interesting costumes and they have these really elaborate kind of performances in the ring, right? It's it's in a way and our team, it can be a little theatrical. You have like the good guy and the bad guy, but yeah, they, they have like really amazing tricks that they do. And it's a lot, it's a lot of freestyle wrestling, but it can be really awesome and fun to watch. And Speaker 1: 22:20 Where are these matches being held? Speaker 9: 22:22 Yeah, so right now, um, the organization that is, um, really introducing them into the neighborhood of Logan Heights and hopefully expanding to other areas of San Diego is you as spa has stars. And right now they're taking place in Logan Heights and this brew house, before that they were in OTI Mesa. Uh, they wanted to be closer to the border, but because of COVID, they haven't really been able to, you know, come up with some sort of venue that can accommodate them. So now they're doing them outdoors at this brewery. Speaker 1: 22:50 Is this an expensive event to go to? No, Speaker 9: 22:53 Absolutely not. So that's a big part of their mission. So these events can, can range from like 30 to a thousand dollars, especially when you're talking about like WWE events, but this organization has really made it a point to make these wrestling matches accessible for people who maybe normally wouldn't have enough money to pay for something like this. Uh, so there they're about $25 for adults and I believe it's $10 for children. Speaker 1: 23:18 And tell us a little bit about the wrestlers themselves. I mean, how do they get drawn into wrestling? What's the allure of being a Luchador? Speaker 9: 23:26 Yeah, so, um, I spoke to a couple that day. One of their most recent matches and, and two guys are really interesting actually highlighted them in my story. Um, of course there's a sense of mystery there because they, they don't use their actual names and they never take off their mask in public when they're at a wrestling match, but one of them grow male. He, he up in Tijuana and he would go to these wrestling matches with his dad. And they were like, he told me that this was like a date that he would go on his dad with. And, um, so it had a very big significance to him. So ever since he was little, he wanted to be a Lucido, but his dad said, you know what, first you got to get a career. So he's actually an attorney in Atlanta. He has his own law practice and he started training. Speaker 9: 24:06 Uh, he really enjoyed fitness and he always had a love for tell, even he made a promise to his dad that one day he'd be at each other. So, um, he became one and, uh, he's actually really, really fun to watch. And, um, yeah, he's, he's still on the Tarny. So, uh, by the day he has clients and then in the afternoon, he's in the gym practicing these like really elaborate tricks. And then on the weekends, he's, you know, flying off to different states and, and, um, competing in these matches. One of the other guys I interviewed, he lives in spring valley and, um, he's now a professional Lieutenant. This is all he does. He doesn't have another side job. This is everything he does. And he's also, um, you know, he grew up with, with somewhat of a love for Lucha Libra. He grew up around it and he was kind of getting into trouble as a young boy. And sport was kind of a way for him to distract themselves from, from those, uh, temptations. And so Lou tele braid kind of put him on the right track. Speaker 1: 25:01 Wow. Given that I'm guessing that for many of the Lucia doors themselves, you know, this isn't a full-time job, but could it be, or, or is it more of a passion for the people behind the masks? Speaker 9: 25:13 Yeah, it's definitely a full-time job. I mean, most of the guys that were there had kind of, you know, a side gig, some of them are Uber drivers. Some of them are construction workers. Some of them are line cooks, you know, different things that, you know, the one I spoke with was an attorney. Um, but it could definitely be a full-time profession. Uh, the, the fighter I spoke with, uh, the king glamy stereo, he, this is all he does during the pandemic. He did, he ended up getting into construction for a bit because a lot of events were canceled. Um, but yeah, that he lives off [inaudible]. This is everything he, he does every day, he travels. Um, and he was in Oklahoma, I think the week after the match that I covered. And so it's definitely lucrative business. These Pluto does get paid to attend the matches. So, um, you know, they, they can have, uh, different deals with different promotion companies and it could be, uh, it could be a career for some of them, of course, a career that, you know, is dependent on them being healthy on them, not getting injured, um, on them getting enough jobs. So it could definitely be a stressful job. Speaker 1: 26:16 So what kind of significance do these events have within the Mexican American community? Yeah, Speaker 9: 26:22 So, I mean, like I said, they kind of bring you back to two, maybe I'm hatching, might've attended as a child, so many people there, it just felt like you were surrounded by like giant hits, you know, they, they were screaming and, and they were booing some times. And I almost felt like at some point they were going to throw things, but it's just this huge energy. And, um, it's very common to have these matches and in Mexico, and to see them as something that it's like, what you do on the weekends, right. Something you do with, with your dad, maybe, or your uncle. Um, so for a lot of people, it's, it's a sense of, you know, taking them back to this memories or feeling like they're back at home in Mexico, because, you know, people are, uh, shaking water bottles with beans and cite them, or they're drinking beers or they're bullying. Uh, one of the wrestlers are being crushed by the rest of us flying out of the ring and flying into the crowd. So it's a lot of energy and I think it gives a lot of people sense of belonging and Speaker 1: 27:22 This kind of theatrical wrestling both here and in Mexico. I mean, think WWE, right. Hadn't always been taken seriously. Uh, is that changing? Speaker 9: 27:31 Yeah, that is. So I spoke with the professor, actually, she had an interesting story. She was working on her thesis and she wanted to learn a little bit more about Lucero does. So she spent a lot of time, um, actually training each other to herself and, you know, just interviewing but to different lutein Lotus. And at that time it was in the nineties, in the early nineties, uh, she, she said that [inaudible] has just felt like they, that they were a big part of Mexican culture, but they just weren't looked at that way. They weren't recognized that way. And for a long time, they really advocated for themselves. And it wasn't until later it, when, when, um, you know, Mexico city that declared something special for the title it is. And, you know, as these organizations got larger, I think people started to recognize the significance of this sport and tradition as well. Speaker 1: 28:17 I've been speaking with San Diego union Tribune, reporter Andrea Lopez via Fanya. Andrea, thank you so much for joining Speaker 9: 28:24 Us. Thank you for having me. Speaker 1: 28:36 The character of Candyman was created by Clive Barker and bought a vivid life by Tony Todd in a 1992 film. Now he's re-imagined by filmmaker, Nia de Costa for a new Candyman movie that hits video on demand. This Friday KPBS film critic, Beth Armando spoke with UC Riverside professor of media and cultural studies. John Jennings at the recent Afrikaan about the layers of meaning and the new Candyman film. Speaker 10: 29:06 So, John, I know you are a huge fan of horror and also specialize in looking to black horror. So I wanted to talk about Candyman the new one and a little bit about the old one. Speaker 11: 29:15 Have you ever heard of Candyman? No, it was right-hand his son off. He has a hook jammed in the bloody stump. And if you look in the mirror and you say his name five times, he'll appear behind you breathing down your neck. You want to try it. Speaker 12: 29:37 The original, uh, Candyman film, which was the, and director is burnout rose. He took elements from Clive Barker short story. The forbidden is very different, like so far, the forbidden really is a more about class dynamics. And that it's a very similar setup where you have like a grad student Helen Lyle, who is doing research on graffiti of this particular area. And what Bernard rose does is he transplants that discourse to America and he decides to have it talk about race, right? And so he creates this amalgam, if you will, of like the hook man, bloody Mary, the game, the bloody Mary game, the original forbidden short story, and an actual murder that happened in Cabrini green, which, uh, of, uh, Ruthie Ann McCoy, which was in 1987. So he actually took elements of that and put it into this Candyman, uh, film that he made with Tony Todd, the other urban legend of course, that he, that he mixes in there is race. Right. It's cause it's a, it's a story, it's a fiction. Right? And so he mixes all these things in there as well. Speaker 10: 30:39 No Jordan Peele and Nia D'Acosta kind of re-imagined Candyman through more of a black lens. So w what did you feel was kind of the most significant change that they made? Speaker 12: 30:50 I think one of the most significant ones was the fact that they took the singular story of Daniel over time, and they actually kind of posited Candyman more as a mantle or as, um, because the Coleman Domingo's character, Billy Burke kind of references, he's a hive. It's almost like you need a systemic, like Avenger to kind of fight against systemic racism. You know what I'm saying? Cause he's, he becomes like more than one person. And so I think that was a really interesting idea because it doesn't like disrupt the original story. It actually adds to more of a mythology, which I thought was really interesting and a very, uh, complex notion about like, just how race is kind of played out in our country. Speaker 13: 31:30 The story like that lasts forever. That's candy, man. Speaker 10: 31:40 Well, and you mentioned, you know, how are like science fiction or films can kind of distance you from certain things and allow you to look at it. And what's interesting in the film too, is that the violence against the black characters is mostly depicted through these shadow puppets, which kind of removes it one step further from normally this would be depicted as live action actors and with, you know, violence being inflicted upon these characters. So it seemed like there was an interesting way to kind of distance you from some of that violence without letting you forget how horrific. Speaker 12: 32:18 Yeah, I totally agree. I use the allegory of, um, Perseus killing Medusa, cause he remembered like the Greek mythology or the Greek myth, uh, Medusa is like this horrific creature wants a beautiful woman who was cursed by the gods. And now she turns people into stone when you look at it, right? So the spectacle of her is what kills you to a certain degree, right? And Percy has killed her with a merit shield, right? So he's looking at her reflection and not directly at her, in some ways the Casa uses a similar method where she kind of, as you're saying, like, she kind of like undercuts the spectacle to a certain degree and it removes you to a certain degree. You can be more objective about it. Now, a lot of horror fans really didn't like that because they want to see the gore. They want to see this, you know, but if you're in this country now and you're black, you know, you turn on CNN and you see that kind of brutalization, right? So, you know, to a certain ingredient, you don't get, you don't get to be black in America and not see yourself as victim sometimes. So I think what she does is by distancing us from it and actually using these beautiful shadow puppets, um, that's really horrific to me, you know, that's the, actually the stuff that makes cause it, it leaves so much to the imagination. You know, Speaker 10: 33:23 The first film I thought it was interesting because the tagline for the film is we dare you to say his name and now the tagline says, say it. And then there's a hashtag for tell everyone. And I just want to know, like, how do you think this is playing off of kind of black lives matters? And this sensibility of say their names, remember who the victims are and kind of transforming this Candyman legend into something that feels very contemporary and of the moment now. Speaker 12: 33:51 Yeah, no, that's a, that's a very good question. Yeah, because the first one really is it's talking about race and representation, but it also still centers Helen, you know, as the main kind of protagonist. And she becomes like a really active ally and definitely like, she gives her life to save this little black boy. And then of course the black community reflects that they actually come to our grave. They give her this hook, what have you? And then she becomes an urban legend, right? In the second film, they shift this lens. This is taking directly from like some of the chance that are from the black lives matter movement about saying the names, uh, repairing a ratio because that's what the character is doing to like, do not forget me. This is what happened to us, you know, say my name and actually like, and see what happens, that kind of thing, because he's still an angry spirit, you know, but you know, but it's also like a, uh, a sense of reverence for the people who've been killed in this fashion. Tell everyone, of course it's about really, really tapping into the idea of like oral culture, remembering through speaking, that kind of thing, like passing along these stories because you know, these urban legends where like, you know, they were folktales Speaker 10: 34:58 Also, there's a point where, uh, the Burke character says, I think it's when he's recounting what he saw in the laundry room. And he says like, I saw the true face of horror then. And to me, it's kind of a little bit like Stephen, King's it it's like the really scary thing is the real world violence, you know, the abuse the kids go through and it, and then in this, it's the fact that the police killed this innocent man in front of this little child and the supernatural stuff on a certain level is far less terrible. Speaker 12: 35:32 That's exactly right. And that's what I'm saying is like, yes, I got chills when you said that, because that's exactly what thought too. I was like, oh man, when he said the true face of horror, he was talking about the swarm, the police warm, right. He's like doubly traumatized because of that. And now he realizes, well, in order for me to really fight this vicious, huge thing, I have to create something even darker, you know, and be a part of it. I was like, what I would have loved to have seen is actually the hives speaking to him. Speaker 10: 35:57 And do you have any like final words or about the film or anything that you would like to encourage people to think about when they go see it or when they exit the theater after having, Speaker 12: 36:07 Going with an open mind, but also understand that this is not like this isn't Jason, you know, this isn't like the first movie it's very thought provoking. It's a slow burn. It's it's like it's an art house, horror film to a certain degree to it has that, that kind of meatiness to it. And I think it's more effective that way. And it's more creepy. I think that people want to be shown things and not have to fill in the gaps. And you know, sometimes it's best for you to do that, you know, in order to get it. But it definitely bears rewatching as well. All right. Speaker 10: 36:35 Well, I want to thank you very much for talking about the new Candyman. Speaker 12: 36:38 Oh, thank you so much. And this has been fun. I love talking about this movie. So Speaker 1: 36:43 That was Beth Armando speaking with professor John Jennings go to K pbs.org/cinema junkie tomorrow to hear their full interview on Beth's podcast. Speaker 1: 36:59 You're listening to KPBS mid-day edition. I'm Jade Hindman Maureen Kavanaugh is off raw expression and artistic freedom is rare in this world where everything from use it to social media is monetized and music untouched by the gears of capitalism left to the purest form of creativity is hard to find, but if you find it, what would that sound like? Well, scrapes is a legendary experimental electronic duo who create on their own terms. You can't find their music on traditional streaming platforms and they don't play traditional instruments. Their live shows are a chaotic explosion of chopped breakbeats and alien noise that push the speakers within an inch of their life. It's grapes joins us today, but let's begin with their song Sabbath kiss Speaker 5: 38:35 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 38:46 You can definitely hear the jazz behind the chaos there. That is scrapes with Savickas. And I want to introduce grapes tension, AKA John Kelso, and psychopomp AKA David Lampley. Thanks for joining us on the KPBS summer music series. Speaker 14: 39:05 Oh, thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks for having us on. So Speaker 1: 39:08 First question, how did you meet and start scrapes? Speaker 14: 39:11 We met in high school, Speaker 15: 39:13 We had mutual friends that were in the music. Also, Speaker 14: 39:16 David was, uh, at the time producing, like hip hop stuff and rapping. And I was deejaying and I did some scratches for his album and we just connected through music and had like the same wavelength of creating crazy sounds and chaos stuff. Speaker 1: 39:32 So all this, this chaotic sound, I mean, what is your process? Speaker 15: 39:37 Just whatever we get, find that could plug into the amplifiers amplified noise. Pretty much. It's just all freestyle, a jamming out it's like free jazz basically. Speaker 1: 39:49 Hmm. So what instruments do you use to make your sounds? Speaker 15: 39:53 I used to be a little synthesizer. I have a couple of synthesizers and a lot of affects and found electronic things that could be plugged in or amplified. Speaker 14: 40:04 I use modular synthesizers, samplers, mostly just capture sound and try to chop up the sounds to create rhythms and noise. Speaker 15: 40:14 He'll recordings, reel to reels, tape decks, old records. Speaker 1: 40:19 Nice. I mean, lets you use it. This process called circuit bending. I mean tell me about that. Speaker 14: 40:24 Yeah. Circuit Benny has just taken like any instrument toy, anything that makes sound that's battery powered or electronic car, but I just opened it up and just poke around and the inside a bit and see if it alters the sound. Makes anything sound crazy and destroy the original sound. Speaker 16: 41:15 [inaudible] [inaudible] Speaker 1: 41:34 I have to know like what are your live shows like Speaker 15: 41:38 Improvisational improv. Speaker 14: 41:40 Yeah. Sometimes like some people don't understand it, you know, just cause we're just going up there. Just feeding off of uh, the Speaker 15: 41:50 Day this around. Yeah. So Speaker 14: 41:53 Usually it's just like a big wall of sound going on in the whole time. It was just like, yeah. Speaker 15: 41:57 Yeah. We used to make a Wallace down until something breaks through. Then we go off of it, our friends Sue, much. This guy gone to Sufi. He always says it's like scaring someone, then giving a hug and telling me it's all right, then pushing them off you then like making a laugh then, then you're like friends after the show, I went to all sorts of different feelings, I guess. Hmm. Speaker 1: 42:19 What are your roles? What specific instruments do you play? What sounds are each of you responsible for? Speaker 14: 42:26 Uh, I mostly do mostly all the percussion duties and some of the ambient noise stuff going on. I mostly just use my, my modular system for that. And um, psychopomp David uses his scent keyboard, so it's mostly just like drums and sent the whole time. Speaker 15: 42:43 They, a lot of bass sounds on there. Speaker 14: 42:45 Very minimal, but like it sounds heavy. Speaker 1: 43:08 Where'd you get these crazy sounds. Speaker 15: 43:10 Sometimes we'll use a tape loop on a reel to reel. I have like a machine that's for the, take a hearing test and it makes all these crazy sounds out of it. And will those who delay in some distortion on it? Speaker 14: 43:25 Yeah, just, yeah. Everything's different. Every time we perform it's like sometimes we just pick like they'll take decks or like, um, a little radio they'll speak and spell or whatever, you know, or a game boy. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 5: 43:58 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 43:59 And so how do people respond to your music? Speaker 15: 44:03 Um, I think people were scared at first, but seems like people through the years got the idea we're trying to do and uh, hopefully they're feeling it, but it's all right. If they don't. Yeah, Speaker 14: 44:13 This is what we do. Yeah. We just have fun. Every time we play Speaker 15: 44:17 Play shows and we don't even look up just we look up and one that's up. Cause we're just like in the zone. Speaker 1: 44:23 So what, how does that, how does that work? How does this the sound man? They eat doesn't even get it right. The sad Speaker 15: 44:29 Guy probably hates us. Usually they don't get it. So we used to just bring our own sound because they'd always turn us down. We're turning up and they think we're going to burn the sound system out, but we just bring our own. So if we break it, I'm not mad. I'm like, I feel like I one or something. If I burned the speaker out, we played a show one time and we knocked the lights out of the ceiling. Speaker 17: 45:03 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 45:05 I would imagine that like the crowd's reaction is different too. Like you've toured Europe many times. I mean, how's the crowd reaction different there than from here in the U S Speaker 15: 45:15 Or shows in Europe. I feel like people are dancing and moving and just hanging on to every snare and baseline Speaker 14: 45:23 America. It seems like they're more just observing and trying to see what we're doing studying or something. Well, like in other countries they don't really stare too much up at our appointment. They're just mostly just feeling the vibe of the music dancing around. They're having Speaker 15: 45:37 A good time. It's really cool Speaker 1: 45:40 With that. I want to take a listen to heavy machinery Speaker 5: 47:17 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 47:30 Wow. So that's a very lively. So those overseas audiences, they were up on two feet dancing when that's going on. Yeah. Speaker 15: 47:37 I usually like the energy gets locked. It gets, people are swaying and like people go to spots to just get loose. It's a real big honor to be a part of that, you know? Speaker 1: 47:50 So what's it like being on stage and improvising your music? Speaker 15: 47:55 It's kind of free. Maybe there's a little bit of pressure, but we don't really have an expectation. We just want to get loud and kind of abrasive and here's some heavy drums and we're just kind of locked in the zone and if people are feeling it, that's like really special, but people walk away. It's it's cool. It's not for everybody. Speaker 14: 48:15 As long as the sound system sounds good. Well, we'll have a good time on stage. That's all that counts. Yeah. Speaker 1: 48:21 Yeah. Cause I mean, you know, there's not like you've, you've practiced, you know? I mean, this is just like it's raw when you're up on stage. And so how much does the audience's reaction, um, impact you? Speaker 14: 48:34 Oh yeah. If the audience is really felling it, then Speaker 15: 48:37 Yeah. Then we it's like, we can't stop playing when everyone everything's going perfect. And the audiences, like the energy is so high that we can just like pause and everyone will pause and then will start playing again. It's just having that control is yeah, it feels like the phrase. Yeah. Control the energy. Speaker 14: 48:58 We just become like one with the audience, Speaker 1: 49:00 With your, do it yourself approach and the way you create music in the moment and never repeat the same thing. What is it about that as an artist that's really just kept you going for over two decades. Speaker 15: 49:12 I guess it just never gets old. There's always something like a different rhythm. Or Speaker 14: 49:17 We also like create like our own records laid cut records. So we also just try to find new ways of, um, designing those records to whether it's like homemade picture dis records or like weird shapes. So that's what kind of makes it more exciting for us as well. Cause rose we're just like, Speaker 15: 49:36 Yeah, I feel like we're just artists, like we'll make our own t-shirts or on record covers our own tapes. Uh, our own flyers book, our own shows. We used to have control over every part of the process. And I don't know how many other people could say they do that. I feel like we're pure artists and it was good to be able to say that. I feel like I got off. Speaker 1: 49:58 I've been speaking with scrapes members tension and psychopomp thank you both for joining me. Thank you so Speaker 15: 50:05 Much. Thanks Speaker 14: 50:06 For having us all Speaker 5: 50:17 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 50:17 Scrapes new album witchcraft two is out now go to kpbs.org/summer music series or a video interview. Speaker 5: 52:03 [inaudible] [inaudible].