Supervisor Vargas On Extending San Diego County Eviction Moratorium

Speaker 1: 00:00 New countywide laws to stop pandemic evictions. Speaker 2: 00:04 It's temporary. I think it'll give us a little bit of leeway to be able to help our communities while they are in dire need Speaker 1: 00:11 Jade Hindman with Maureen Kavanaugh. This is KPBS midday edition Is the San Diego region meeting climate goals. Speaker 3: 00:28 The climate crisis is accelerating so fast that we are not up to match the pace and scale of this change. Speaker 1: 00:38 Plus a violent dog attack and how to control our furry friends. Then behind the films in the Turner classic movies festival that's ahead on mid day to day, Just before a federal judge ruled the CDC overstepped its authority when imposing a nationwide eviction moratorium, San Diego County supervisors imposed a temporary rent cap and new rules to make evictions more difficult for landlords during this pandemic, the move makes San Diego county's eviction laws among the strictest in the state. And joining me to discuss the new laws is vice-chair Nora Vargas, San Diego County supervisor for district one. Vice-chair Vargas. Welcome. Speaker 2: 01:30 Thank you. Thank you for having me. Speaker 1: 01:32 So first, could this CDC ruling and the DOJ appeal on the national level complicate any local legislation on evictions? Speaker 2: 01:42 Well, I mean, I think we're monitoring what's happening at the national level. We also know that a president Biden is going to make sure he continues to advocate for the thousands of folks who have been evicted since the start of the pandemic. And so we're going to continue to monitor that, um, as we will be forward, but I think this particular ordinance, uh, was important for us, uh, to make sure we were protecting, um, some of the renters who had been evicted without this cost. Speaker 1: 02:08 Right. It does this ruling, uh, then with the CDC, um, on the nationwide eviction ban emphasize the need for the county-wide ban. Speaker 2: 02:17 I think so I think it's really, what's really important to note is that even, you know, during these difficult times, and even though we have [inaudible], which is a statewide moratorium in California, and it's supposed to, you know, create we're in closed system protections and, and all that, there's still existed loopholes that many landlords were using to a big renters. And so I think what we did, uh, with this particular ordinance was make sure that, uh, people can evict somebody just without just cause. Speaker 1: 02:48 Hmm, you mentioned that just cause was one reason a landlord can evict a tenant, but what exactly is that Speaker 2: 02:55 That means, um, you know, for the health and health and safety of our communities, right? Let's say, um, somebody, uh, is creating some imminent threat, uh, to the area. I think that's when, when, um, uh, somebody can be evicted or, you know, it's not necessarily, um, you know, it doesn't say if somebody is not doing, we're not following the law and not doing what they're supposed to be doing, they should be able to evict those, those folks. Uh, but what we're saying now is you have to have a just cause for that. And, and I think that a lot of our, uh, a lot of the folks that I have heard her firsthand, uh, were being evicted without that, without an actual, just cause to be able to do that. Speaker 1: 03:36 Yeah, there was a lot of public interest in this ordinance. The union Tribune noted that many small landlords called into the meeting. What were their concerns? Speaker 2: 03:46 You know, I think rightfully so, landlords were concerned that this would impact them directly. And they said, you know, they, there was a lot of misinformation. I think that was shared to a lot of our communities about what this would do and you know, what I have, um, with the many landlords that I've spoken to when I said to them, if, if you're a good landlord following the rules and follow this should not impact you at all. Right. I mean, um, you know, and, and I think it's important to emphasize that what, what, um, before I think, uh, I think there was just a lot of misinformation about the fact that people can stay in, in, in these, uh, in their dwellings for a long time and that they would not be able to, um, you know, uh, evict somebody if, if somebody, uh, did something, you know, that was terrible to their location. And that's, that's not the case. This is really impacting only, this is really protecting, uh, renters who have been the focus of many bad landlords who actually have evicted people during this pandemic without, um, actual just cause. And we've seen it in communities and impure beach. We've seen it. And in some of the communities into Vista where, you know, uh, people are just being, uh, evicted without any costs Speaker 1: 05:04 Hmm. Mayors of some local cities like Cornetto Poway, Elka hone among them oppose the measure, saying it violated their right to local control. Does it really well? Speaker 2: 05:15 You know, I think what we did is a very special circumstance because we are under a state of emergency. Um, this is not, uh, this is something that we're doing because you know, the County is the safety net of our communities and we're supposed to be there for our residents in our County. And so it's really important to know that what we did is only, this is only happening because we are in a state of emergency, right. Otherwise we would have not done this. And, uh, we see the, the big problem that has caused for so many residents in our County. And so, uh, we went ahead and did this, but I think what's important to note is that there's a lot of other folks like, you know, um, council members from a lot of these cities, uh, that are also supporting this measure because they know it's the right thing to do. Speaker 1: 06:04 And there is a statewide eviction moratorium in place until June 30th. How has that been working? Speaker 2: 06:11 Well, I mean, I think this is why we ended up creating this, this particular ordinance for the County of San Diego, because we have seen that over a thousand evictions have happens as a pandemic. And, and, and so what we wanted to do is close that loophole to ensure that it protected many of our families in our region. And, and so the ordinance, as it stands as of Tuesday, it really provides protections. Uh, and, uh, for, um, our renters that have been evicted without just cause Speaker 1: 06:42 The ordinance also includes a rent cap, rent increases are kept at 4%. How will that work? Speaker 2: 06:49 It's actually not 4%. I think there's some misinformation about what that is. It's I think at 1.6%. And so, um, it just depends, um, you know, what we're saying is hold off until after the pandemic and then the governor has lifted, uh, the state of emergency. So we can, as communities are trying to get back on their feet, that we're gonna manage this. Right? And so this is, this is a temporary, um, control and what we want to make sure we do is that, look, what we're trying to do is really help people through this really challenging times, right? That's what we're trying to do. Um, people are getting evicted. People have lost their jobs. Um, you know, our communities really have in, particularly in South County and the Latino community has been greatly impacted by COVID and the inequities of the system. And I think that what we want to do is we want to be able to do everything we can to make sure that people are staying in their homes, um, as they're getting back on the feet. And so this is like I said, a temporary relief for communities during really difficult times. Speaker 1: 07:54 I've been speaking with vice-chair nor of Argus San Diego County supervisor for district one vice-chair Vargas. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Speaker 4: 08:16 San Diego is one of the leaders in the state and the nation in confronting the threat of climate change. The city's climate action plan is a model for other cities. And this year, the County is developing a plan to move the region totally away from fossil fuels, but are we actually doing the work necessary to achieve these goals and stop a climate disaster? Nicole Keppra is founder of San Diego's climate action campaign says no she's warning that a faster pace and more commitment is needed as the dangers of climate change increase. Nicole Cafritz joins me now and welcome Nicole. Nice to be here. Now you recently wrote this warning in an op-ed in the union Tribune. Why, what do you see happening that moved you to write this piece? Speaker 5: 09:03 Yeah, a couple of things. One is just our analysis based on our watchdog work at the local and regional level in San Diego County. And we do this annual report card that evaluates, Hey, how our city is doing not only in developing climate action plans, but as importantly implementing them. And what we have found consistently is that our cities and the County are just falling behind. There's just no coordination. They don't have the resources and it just doesn't have the political will necessary to actually get these plans, um, implemented in a way that's really gonna make that change. We need to see at the same time, this new report comes out from a host of climate experts throughout California, sort of, you know, sounding the alarm saying what they're seeing based on the data is that the climate crisis is accelerating so fast that we are not up to match the pace and scale of this change. And so they call for the, uh, state of California to double down to basically, you know, sort of throw out the old goals where we were saying, Hey, we're going to be carbon neutral by 2045. And they said, you need to be carbon neutral by 2030, which is a pretty dramatic shift in the timeline. Speaker 4: 10:23 I want to go back to that report card that you mentioned, the climate action issues each year. You say each city in San Diego is falling behind. Can you give us more on that? How are they falling behind? Speaker 5: 10:34 Yeah, I mean, the climate crisis impacts everything about, uh, city operations. It affects right how we grow, how we move people around how we power our future. And so it's a very holistic analysis. And so we are making some, some pretty decent strides on cleaning our grid, as they say, which means getting renewable electricity to power our lives. Unfortunately, when you look at transportation, we've made almost zero progress. Unfortunately we have not provided alternatives, biking, walking, transit that make it viable for people not to drive their car to work. And so, you know, setting aside the COVID last year and kind of how that, um, messed with, um, traditional practices, what we see is that people are getting right back on the road and in their car, because again, we have not, um, put in the infrastructure necessary so that people feel like they don't have to drive to work. Speaker 5: 11:30 And so there's the transportation component. There's the zero waste component. There's the, you know, adaptation side, which is like, how are we going to cool down our cities? How are we going to make sure that communities of concern like that? We have some equity solutions in place because we all know that the people just like we saw in COVID the people who are most vulnerable to the impacts of the climate emergency are going to be those people, lower income communities of color. And so we are kind of seeing that we are not, you know, um, really doing what we need to do to make sure that we're going to be climate safe and climate ready. And those are some of the details. And then one final issue I'll mention is that we continue unfortunately to resist the need, to build compact mixed use housing in our urban centers. There's still this resistance, this kind of attachment to the old school. Like we just grow out, we just go into the back country and we just pave over natural lands. But as we're learning because of the heat waves and, uh, intensity of the fire threats that that's just not possible. And yet there's still a huge push to just do things the traditional way when we really have to completely reimagine how we're going to grow and develop Speaker 4: 12:48 Hone in on that a little bit, because the changes that the city and the state are trying to make when it comes to climate change, like increasing housing density, as you mentioned, getting people out of their cars to choose biking or public transportation, they continually face a backlash, and it's not only from business, but it's from people, neighborhood residents who liked the way things are now and they don't want to have these changes. So how do you build a grassroots commitment toward change? Speaker 5: 13:16 So what we have been doing, we started a coalition of about 54, um, diverse broad-based organizations and businesses, and, um, labor organizations called the San Diego green new deal Alliance. And the intention is exactly, as you stated, like how can we pilled the grassroots support for doing things differently? Because yes, we all, you know, humans, we resist change. That's kind of our default state, but obviously the atmosphere is changing despite our desire to keep things the same. And so we have to change with it. We have to adapt, we have to get ready and yes, we have to tackle some uncomfortable conversations on so many levels, by the way. And that's what we're seeing nationwide. It's not just in terms of the climate crisis, but obviously economic inequality, racial injustice, but all these things are connected because they all require change. And so the green new deal Lance is really, you know, the moniker is climate jobs and justice. Speaker 5: 14:12 And so it's meant to be intersectional. It's meant to, you know, really build that multi-sector multiracial coalition from all corners of our San Diego region. So that again, the elected officials feel like they have the support to be bold and brave in a way they never have before. I mean, we're still gonna push them regardless to use that bully pulpit that they have. And so we still feel that as we continue to build this grassroots movement, they are sort of, you know, using their platform to talk to the community, honestly have the hard conversations, let's go deep into the communities and explain to people what science says and how their lives are going to be appended and why best we have to get ahead of the curve. And the final comment is that when we do polling and it's not climate action campaign, who does polling, but, you know, elected officials always do polling to decide like, what does the public thinking about different issues? Climate is always at the top near the top. And so we know there's like some growing grassroots support for bold action. And we've just, you know, it's that magic elixir of getting just enough Greg's grassroots support. Plus making the elected officials believe they can go outside their comfort zone. And again, have these serious real conversations about how they're going to have to push policies and programs and solutions that are different than we've ever done before. Speaker 4: 15:36 And I've been speaking with Nicole Cafritz, she's the founder of San Diego's climate action campaign. Nicole, thank you very much. Thank you. This is KPBS midday edition. I'm Maureen Kevin Hall with Jade Heinemann dog owners, for the most part, think their pets are friendly in public. So what's the harm in unclipping their leash for a few minutes to play fetch at the neighborhood park? Well, a lot of harm can come of it. As KPBS, as Maya troublesome found out after a vicious attack over the weekend, a couple in Poway is grieving after suffering both external wounds and broken hearts. Speaker 5: 16:21 Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear. Kiki's happy birthday to you. Speaker 6: 16:31 Six year old miniature schnauzer chickies. Won't be getting any more birthday songs or treats her life ended last week after a vicious attack by an unleashed dog, but she wasn't the only victim. Speaker 5: 16:43 And then some, some puncture wounds here and little puncture wounds. Speaker 6: 16:47 Sheekey's owners, Cynthia and Ricardo Elizondo are back at garden road park in Poway for the first time, since the incident, Speaker 5: 16:54 I believe we might actually find blood trails. Um, my understanding is they tried to clean it up after the incident, but were not successful in getting it all. So we may, Speaker 6: 17:06 CSUMB, there's a long stretch of grass to the side of the park that is commonly used as a dog run for unleashed dogs to play fetch. Speaker 5: 17:12 We're actually on this path. We were on the path, Oh, that's my glove and that's blood right there. So this is the glove that you were wearing that morning. That is correct. Speaker 6: 17:24 Bloody glove, all that remains of the deadly encounter. That seemed so innocent. At first, I was not Speaker 5: 17:31 Scared at all. I thought he was just coming to say hello. It was clearly friendly dog playing ball with his, Speaker 6: 17:36 But instincts kicked in. And the dog who had been playing happily just seconds before had locked his sights on shikis and his jaws into her back Speaker 5: 17:46 And, um, would not let go, would not let of, at that point, Speaker 6: 17:50 His owner came running over. We started kicking the dog. The owner actually said, kick him, kick him, do it, go for it. Um, and he, he got on the ground and immediately got his hands into his own dog's mouth to pry open the, the jaws. It took three adults, more than 30 seconds to separate the dogs. At which point the attack continued. The owner clearly shocked by his dog's behavior. During the incident, he kept saying that he's never done this before. He's never done this before. This is not like him. Once Cynthia got Sheekey's into her arms, they spun in circles trying to avoid another bite. This time Cynthia's arm got in the way. And she felt the dog's teeth and her flesh Speaker 7: 18:35 At that moment, I thought we just need protection. And so we actually, Cynthia and I and took the dog to the, to the children's structure there because I said, there's a Fort, I need a Fort. So you climbed up here. So clan from the other side just took my family, right? So I was carrying the dog over here just to keep, because I knew that I only had to protect one entrance Speaker 6: 18:58 Once police and EMT arrived Chickie's and Cynthia were both rushed to respective emergency rooms. Cynthia needed sutures and staples to close her deep wound there, a bite out of my arm. Speaker 7: 19:09 So there, there, there was kind of an inch and a half, two inch diameter, you know, separating, you know, with no skin and looking in Speaker 6: 19:17 Almost to the bone, cheeky suffered broken ribs and organ damage and had to be euthanized while Cynthia was still in the ER, she did not get to say goodbye. Speaker 7: 19:27 No, Speaker 2: 19:30 There's inherently more safety for everybody in the park. If animals are leashed, they can't reach other animals. They can't reach other owners. Speaker 6: 19:38 Captain Danny cook from the San Diego humane society says the dog that attacked is under a 10 day bite quarantine per California, health and safety code, not punitively, but to rule out rabies, she says, officers regularly get owners explaining why their dogs are off leash. Despite the leash law, Speaker 2: 19:56 My dog is under voice controller. My dog comes exactly when I tell them to, or my dog is the sweetest dog and would never harm another dog or person, whether that is in fact true or not, it's not just for their safety and their dog's safety. It is for the safety of the owner, other owners and dogs in the park Speaker 7: 20:14 Friendly dogs are still weapons. You know, that is the point. Yeah. It can go from licking. Your toddler's face to causing a big gash on strangers arm in, you know, because they are dogs that is not a vicious dog is just a dog. Speaker 6: 20:35 Back at the Elizondo is home cheeky, crate, her dog door and toys in the yard are painful reminders of what they all endured. The Elizondo say they have forgiven the other dog owner and want to clear that he's been equally traumatized watching his beloved pet turned deadly. If even one person decides that they will no longer take their friendly, sweet, loving dog off-leash at the park or anywhere other than the dog park, I will be happy. My [inaudible] KPBS news Speaker 4: 21:11 Joining me is Erin Vihara she's owner and trainer at Wolf dog training in San Diego. And Aaron, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Maya's report could make a dog lovers blood run cold. I'm wondering how often do you hear of incidents like that? Speaker 8: 21:31 Well, I think this incident was, uh, was particularly scary. Um, but it's really common that there are incidents involving dogs having this sort of behavior. Maybe not to the degree that it happened in this particular situation, but, um, it is common for dogs to show, um, some, some form of behavior, um, towards other dogs or towards people when they're in the community, Speaker 4: 22:00 What causes a usually friendly dog to have an attack episode like that Speaker 8: 22:06 That's tricky and it's tricky without knowing this particular dog. Um, but I think something that's common that comes through my world that I see often is, um, uh, underlying behavior that a dog has some body language that they may have shown over. Sometimes what's actually a pretty long period of time. Um, and it just hasn't either hasn't been noticed or hasn't happened in a way that, that people can understand it. Speaker 4: 22:36 Now, do you hear about owners disobeying leash laws because they think their dog would never behave violently. Speaker 8: 22:43 Absolutely. Very, very, very commonly. Speaker 4: 22:47 And is that a wrong assumption for people to make? Speaker 8: 22:51 I would certainly say so. Um, as a dog trainer, um, and just as a pet owner, a pet dog owner, um, it it's something that comes up very, very frequently. Um, it often happens when I'm out working with clients. It happens to me with my personal dogs very frequently, and it it's, it's a really common thing for people to say that my dog is friendly and they sort of give you a wave as this, that, that that's okay for your dog to be coming up to someone else's dog or up to some person because they're friendly. Speaker 4: 23:23 Now, some dog owners feel that their dogs need to be let off the leash and run free. Occasionally. Is that true? Speaker 8: 23:30 I think that's difficult. I think it's, it's an understandable desire that people have that they want to let their dog off the leash. There are dogs to thrive running off the leash, but I think that when we choose to let our dogs off the leash in order to get that sort of exercise or stimulation of whatever clients, um, I think that we have to be aware that we're sharing public space and that we can only do that safely when we have our dogs off the leash and places that other folks know there are going to be off-leash dogs and they're allowed to be there. Speaker 4: 24:06 Do you think that training could have helped in this particular situation? We just heard about it. Speaker 8: 24:13 What I would caution folks is that even with training, even the best trained dogs, even service dogs, who I work with, I always recommend having the dog on a leash when you're in a public space. Speaker 4: 24:29 And I'm wondering how should people who are, you know, out walking their dogs or in a neighborhood park with their dog on a leash, how, how should they assess the safety of other dogs? Is there anything they should look at? Speaker 8: 24:43 Usually you're looking at body language, um, you know, dogs are communicating with their body language. And when we see that a dog is walking, for example, directly towards another dog, particularly face to face, um, that can be something to be aware of. Also, if we see it usually looking at the dog's body, um, kind of from head to toe. So not just their tail is wagging, but like their entire body. What does it look like? What do we see in the way that the dog is carrying themselves? So are they leaning forward towards the dog and presenting a specific posture, um, is their body tense? Do we see that they're holding their mouth tightly, their ears, tightly, their body? You know, there's all sorts of small details that we can notice. Um, unfortunately, sometimes it happens really quickly, but those are, um, you know, those are some of the signs when you see that the dog is carrying tension in their body. So that's something that generally means that something's uncomfortable about the interaction or that the dog is experiencing some level of stress, whether that is good stress or bad stress. So, you know, it's going to vary a lot by scenario, but it's, uh, you know, if you're seeing that it's something to pause and kind of have a caution about, Speaker 4: 26:06 There are dogs in the area and let's say in your neighborhood park that are off the leash, should you just leave with your dog? Speaker 8: 26:14 I do typically, um, I think that, you know, either leaving or, or of course talking to the person, um, if that's possible before you get your dog into that situation, talking to the person, um, or making a report, if that, uh, you know, depending on everybody's comfort level with those things, I think all of that could be a good option, but if I'm walking in and entering a park and I noticed that there's awfully thugs and I've got my dog, I think the first thing that I would do is, um, is try, try to make sure Speaker 9: 26:44 I have a safe environment for my dog and then go from there. Speaker 4: 26:47 Okay. I've been speaking with Erin [inaudible] she's owner and trainer at Wolf dog training in San Diego. Aaron, thank you very much. Speaker 9: 26:56 Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Speaker 1: 27:04 As the call for racial justice grows louder across the country. There is a form of activism. The San Diego workforce partnerships as is also impactful. That is financial activism where people put financial institutions and spending habits under a microscope for deep examination to see if they aligned with their values and racial justice. Andy hall, who is the chief impact officer at San Diego workforce partnership recently wrote an article about financial activism and joins us now. Andy, welcome. Speaker 9: 27:36 Hi, thanks for having me. So Speaker 1: 27:38 First, can you paint the picture of economic inequality here in San Diego? Speaker 9: 27:42 No, for me, our organization, the San Diego workforce partnership has done a lot of work over the years. Um, and especially in the last year documenting the wage differences, um, that businesses and employers pay, um, black employees and white employees, for example, um, white employees on average controlling for the position, um, make more money than black employees in San Diego, but that's not the only factor that explains a really significant wealth gap between black households in the United States and white households in 2016, for example, uh, black households in the U S had about $16,000 of net worth compared to $163,000 for white households. We see the financial system just historically and currently as a big factor in that wealth inequality for black households and white households. Uh, for example, black homeowners have been excluded from access to home loans. Um, traditionally through practices, both by law and in practice of excluding, uh, black residents from getting home loans and buying homes and all of those things over the decades really compound and create more and more inequality. And so our article or my article was really about helping us think about our own financial habits and how that does, or in some cases doesn't line up to the values and the changes that we want to see in the world. And we're asking all of us as individuals and as organizations to think about what money we have control over and how we use that money to build a more just society. Hmm. Speaker 1: 29:17 And you point out that where we buy products and services is where wealth flows and accumulates. What are some ways we can broaden prosperity here in San Diego? Speaker 9: 29:26 Yeah, there's some real simple solutions or actions I should say. Um, and then there's some more, uh, I guess I would call them more complex, but on the real simple level where we shop, where we buy matters, while it might be really, really to click a button on an app and get something delivered to us in the next 24 hours, that simple action really matters for who and where wealth accumulates, if we're a little more intentional and, um, maybe look up a list that we mentioned our article of for black owned businesses or black owned restaurants or any other groups that may have been traditionally marginalized, we will, can then direct our spending power to those organizations and those business owners and those communities that have been historically left out. So on a real basic level, thinking intentionally about the products and services we buy and who provides those to us is really one small, but important step in the right direction. And then taking that a step further where what I like to call where our money rests matters too. So, um, where we bank and where we hold our checking and savings accounts really matters because banks then turn around and lend that money out to different purposes, invests in different businesses, doing different things. And in many cases, some of those banks are investing in things that may or may not align with your values Speaker 1: 30:49 Article. You say, there are two questions we should ask ourselves and organizations before essentially opening our wallets. What are those two questions? Speaker 9: 30:57 So the first is how do your investments and expenditures stack up against your values? Um, and the second is what capital can we influence today to advance towards a more just society. And so I think we covered the investments and expenditures, um, as individuals where we bank, where we eat, um, what products and services we buy and who's providing those products and services. Um, the other question is really about, um, for those in organizations that have some influence on capital think retirement plans or pension plans, or think procurement budgets, um, what can you do or what can you think about and what conversations can you have with your colleagues about how you, um, how that money moves in and through the local economy? Um, so one example from our organization is we recently added, um, different investment options into our retirement plans that are, um, environmentally and socially responsible investments or ESG investments. And that gives our employees a chance to more intentionally align some of their retirement resources, um, with funds and investment opportunities that are more likely to align with their values or at least not counter. Um, some of the things that we're working on here as an organization, one of them Speaker 1: 32:18 Recommendations is to support businesses that have profit sharing with employees or are employee owned. Can you talk a bit about that? Speaker 9: 32:25 Yeah. Thank you for the question. This is a big interest and passion and growing interest of ours here at the workforce partnership and myself individually. So there's a specific type of business model where, um, the employees, um, are actually in fact also owners. So, um, they are, could be, could take the form of an employee stock ownership plan or an Aesop that has tremendous tax benefits for a business, or it could be a worker cooperative or a profit sharing model. We've come across some restaurants that are, um, structured with profit sharing models, where at the end of the month or the quarter of the profit that the company is making is not sitting in one person or a small group of owners pockets, but is rather distributed across to all employees. And in particular, um, when we think about the pandemic and COVID-19, and how those who, um, were wealthy are in many cases wealthier, and those who were barely getting by or have been impacted by the pandemic the most, um, these types of alternative business models that spread wealth across the employees base are really interesting to us to build a more equitable and economic, um, a broad base economic prosperity in our region. Speaker 9: 33:43 And so thinking about businesses that are employee owned, either in part or in whole and, and shopping or buying or, or purchasing services from those companies, um, just ends up generating wealth for many more San Diego residents than traditional business models. Speaker 1: 34:00 What's the difference between an economic boycott and being a financial activist. And do those two things go hand in hand. Speaker 9: 34:07 I was before this interview, I was really thinking about that. I mean, this idea isn't, um, isn't new, uh, boy Scouts have been happening for hundreds of years. In fact, I think one of the most recent, one of the earliest examples of economic activism or financial activism reaching my consciousness was reading civil disobedience by Henry Henry throw who decided not to pay taxes because he didn't like that the government of the us government was supporting slavery. And so this isn't a new idea. I think one of the biggest differences though, is that boycotting is really thinking about where not to spend your money, which I think is an important part of financial activism. But in our article, we're also talking about where to specifically direct your money and your wealth, either at the individual organizational level. And so with organizations and causes and with owners who, um, may have been traditionally locked out of these opportunities in the past. And so they're certainly related, but I would, I would take financial activism one step further than boycotting and not just be about what you don't do, but also being about what you do too. Speaker 1: 35:11 And you know, many of the things we've been talking about are what individuals can do to have an impact, but will that lead to big enough, uh, change, uh, what will force systemic change? Speaker 9: 35:21 I think one, you know, just like voting your values, your one individual vote might not be the one that tips the scales in this or that direction, but we all agree that voting still matters. And I think that's the same on the individual level that, um, you, me deciding to Speaker 10: 35:38 Shop at this restaurant or patron this restaurant and not that one is not going to by itself, you know, bend the arc of economic justice, but it is a small, tiny step in the right direction. And it's signaling that this does matter to me as a consumer. And I think if enough of us think that way, do that way, pool our resources and bank and invest that way, you know, capital markets and the financial system will eventually need to respond as more and more people are intentional with where they put their money. Speaker 4: 36:10 And for more information, you can also find it@kpbs.org. I've been speaking with Andy hall, who is the chief impact officer at San Diego workforce partnership. Andy, thank you very much for joining. Speaker 10: 36:21 Yes. Thanks for having me. Speaker 4: 36:29 This is KPBS mid day edition. I'm Maureen Kevin Hall with Jade Heinemann TCM film festival kicks off four days of films and programming tonight on both the Turner classic movies channel and HBO max KPBS, film critic, Beth Huck, Amando interviews, Oscar winners, Ben Burt, and Craig Barron about their panel, where they do some movie archeology to uncover the secrets of old movie magic. Speaker 11: 36:57 So I have to confess to you guys that your presentations at the TCM film festivals are always the highlight for me. I adore going to them. So this year you have picked a film that I actually have not seen called chain lightning. So Ben, why don't you start by telling me what was it about this film that appealed to you and made you want to do a special presentation? Speaker 10: 37:23 Craig and I have a special fondness for aviation films because aviation and cinema have been paired up with each other for well over a century since they both began. So chain lightening, it's not a well-known film, but it was a film which we had a fondness for and it introduced some technology uses of sound and visual effects, which, uh, intrigued us. So we looked into the story behind the making of that film, correct? It's not a perfect film. It does have some, some issues. So it's not considered one of the, the classic classics, although it is interesting in that it was the last film that Bogart made at Warner brothers before he became an independent, uh, actor for hire. And it, it is kind of the last sort of big production from Warner brothers trying to create a genre about aviation. Uh, Chuck Yeager had just broken the sound barrier. And so the idea was, can we capitalize on the interest of the public has with Jetson aviation and tailor a story around Bogart. So he becomes kind of Chuck Yeager test pilot is of the original rights stuff from the standpoint of visual effects. It's a really interesting kind of capture of state-of-the-art technology for the 1950s. You know, where, where it was there kind of quaint, you know, they're kind of silly sometimes, but we love it. Speaker 11: 38:51 Both of you are wildly talented effects artists in your own writing different aspects of special effects. So Craig give a little background on yourself and what got you interested in doing effects yourself? Speaker 10: 39:05 Yeah, so I do visual effects and started by actually watching classic movies and seeing the, uh, special effects by name on the credits. And I started to look them up and, and back at the time, um, my, uh, I had relatives living in Los Angeles, so we would go visit them during the summer. And I would, um, you know, notice somebody's name, often write it down. And then when I was in Los Angeles, I would see if there was a phone number and an address. And quite often there was, you know, so you could still sort of call people up who had retired and, um, uh, they would invite me over. I would see, you know, some of their artifacts, some of their photographs that they'd worked on, things that they were proud of. I started sort of doing interviews, taking notes and, and then, uh, eventually that led to a book on matte painting. I wrote to, with a coauthored Mark FOSS back in 2001, but, uh, it was, uh, just kind of a long life on love of it. And then I had the opportunity to start working, uh, for George Lucas's industrial light magic for the empire strikes back when he moved from Los Angeles up into the Bay area. So that was being in the right place at the right time and ready with some understanding of, of the craft and what I to do Speaker 12: 40:26 Well. Like Craig, I grew up with a love for movies. I never considered it as a career. It was really the entertainment and the stimulus to my imagination, that, that I fell in love with all kinds of movies from westerns to aviation fixtures, to Swashbucklers with Errol Flynn. But I got interested in making films as a teenager and, uh, it gave me a reason not to grow up. I could still a wheel, a sword and put a costume on and be flash Gordon. And so that eventually led me after a college degree in physics to, uh, go to USC film school. And there, I got pulled further into what had been my hobby movie-making and eventually specialized because, um, there were jobs offered right away. Uh, at that time when I was getting out of school in sound because no young people were going into sound and, uh, I got, uh, hired to work on the very first star Wars movie before star Wars was known by anyone, the success of that changed. Speaker 10: 41:34 And, uh, it's led to a lot of adventures, really both in front and behind the camera. Speaker 11: 41:41 Now this year, TCM is once again, online, and you guys got to create a video instead of being in person, you guys got to create a video. What did this allow you to do? That was different from the in-person experience? Was there something fun about doing this version of it? Speaker 10: 42:01 Right, Craig, we wanted to do something more than the zoom call. And so we came up with the idea of sort of making it like a little documentary and like we're flying a, B 17 and presenting this documentary that we found, the documentary we made, uh, has us hosting from a cockpit of a flying [inaudible] and a thunderstorm. So we immediately put ourselves in jeopardy. Speaker 13: 42:26 That was a close Speaker 10: 42:28 It's important to us to try to always show and let the audience hear things that they have not been exposed to before I have to Speaker 13: 42:37 Good man. I chuckled when I first saw those sounds were so familiar they're from the cartoons, it was classic Roadmaster cartoons. The road runner was developed at Warner brothers at the same time chain lightening was being made. Speaker 10: 42:58 We try to always present something that's original that we have uncovered. Yeah. The sort of catch phrases we use the term movie archeologists, you know, because we're trying to find the material that you haven't seen before. We're really trying to find something a little different, a little different take maybe from the standpoint of the people behind the camera, what their involvement was in making the film. Speaker 11: 43:20 So what's the importance to you of highlighting these older films and looking back at older state-of-the-art technology and kind of sharing that with a new audience, Speaker 10: 43:32 You want to learn about your craft and you want to, you know, you want to take it further. You have to know where it was. So, you know, having a sense of history and how stories were told and the sense of how to make movies and making compelling stories and narratives, that's all something that you learn through example and having a sense of history of it. So that defines what we do as an art form, right? You have to, if you're going to say it's an art form, you need to categorize the history of it and understand how it has progressed over time. And from my standpoint, I'm interested in seeing how the technology changed and allowed filmmakers to make different kinds of films over time and, and how those two drive each other. The technology allows for new types of stories. And then the demand for new stories motivates the development of new technologies being part of the TCM classic film festival. I mean, this is the one and only venue this in Speaker 12: 44:32 The world. Uh, it's one of the only places that you can see a program of films from the past meaningful films, films you may have never heard of, or even have been, haven't been seen recently, a goal of all of this always is to share our love and interest in the movies in hopes that it will, uh, in fact, others, uh, maybe young people too, that who don't necessarily, uh, they're not told about these films and, and they may be able to tune in and that sort of thing. And so we have an educational value to it and, but there's also just an, uh, a love for it. And we, we continue with that. Speaker 11: 45:12 Well, I want to thank you both very much for taking some time to talk about your presentation at this year's TCM film festival. Speaker 12: 45:19 Thank you so long. Thank you very much. Speaker 4: 45:22 That was Beth Armando speaking with Craig Barron and Ben Burt, their panels streams Thursday through Sunday on HBO max with a live zoom session on Saturday.