How Pardoning Servicemen Accused Of War Crimes May Impact The US Military

Speaker 1: 00:00 The war crimes trial of Special Operations Chief Edward Gallagher of the navy seals is set to begin next week at Naval Base San Diego. That is if president Trump doesn't intervene first with a pardon. The White House has reportedly considering the unusual step of issuing an expedited pardon for Gallagher and several others accused of war crimes in time for the Memorial Day holiday. Joining me is New York Times reporter Dave Phillips, who covers veterans and the military. And Dave, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me on. Now, according to your sources, what are the signs that the White House is preparing to issue these pardons? Speaker 2: 00:37 So we were able to confirm with two fairly high level naval officials that late last week, the White House asked the Department of Justice to ask the military branches. I know this gets confusing to ask the military branches to send up paperwork on the accused men, including chief Gallagher right away. Now, this is something that happens from time to time where where these legal packets will be sent to the Department of Justice, but usually it takes months. And the navy was told, no, you need to get this done right away because the president wants to have this in hand for Memorial Day weekend. The, the assumption being that, that he planned action then Speaker 1: 01:20 can you remind us what Gallagher is? Accused of? Speaker 2: 01:23 Gallagher was in charge of a platoon of seals that went to fight isis in Iraq in 2017. And while they're the men in his platoon, say he essentially went off the rails and started targeting civilians indiscriminately, there are specific cases that he's charged for two cases of attempted murder for, uh, gunning down in old man and, and, uh, uh, teenage girl with a sniper rifle. And then one case of premeditated murder for stabbing to death, a isis captive, but wounded ice. It's captive, uh, who was in his, his custody. Uh, I should say that chief Gallagher has pleaded not guilty and denies all these charges. Speaker 1: 02:05 Prosecutors say that the Gallagher bragged about these murders. Is that right? Speaker 2: 02:10 That's right. And we know this, uh, this is not just hearsay, this is his text messages. So shortly after the stabbing to death of the Isis captive, uh, the chief gathered other seals and essentially took a photo with the dead body and then he texted it to at least one other seals saying, hey, good story behind this. I got him with my hunting knife. Speaker 1: 02:34 Now Gallagher isn't the only service member, president Trump may pardon who are the others. Speaker 2: 02:39 So we do not have a definitive list. Uh, but the sources that I've talked to say it's likely to include a number of other guys who are accused or have been convicted of murder or attempted murder. Uh, one of the most prominent is an army lieutenant named Clint Lorance who was convicted in two 13, I believe, um, of ordering his man to murder Afghan civilians. Um, another is an army special forces soldier who is being charged with shooting a Afghan detainee after he was, was questioned and then released. It may also include, um, at least one or maybe several members of a black water private security team that in Iraq in 2007, uh, shot dozens of civilians end up crowded traffic circle. We don't really know the extent. I mean the list goes on and on. We've been at war for a very long time and it's just a question of how deep will will the president reach. Speaker 1: 03:42 Now you spoke with a retired military judge who has concerns about how this could undermine the military justice system if these pardons are issued. I think that's a very widely held concern amongst leaders of all types in the military. You know, from sergeants on up to them Speaker 2: 04:00 to top legal officials. Uh, they have a military order and discipline system that they take very seriously and they think that if anything undermines that it could have, you know, a trickle down effect. Um, so, so it's not just lawyer talk here it is all sorts of, of, uh, veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan on the ground who look at this and say, you know, this could set a pretty dangerous precedent. Speaker 1: 04:27 Now, San Diego, Congressman Duncan Hunter reportedly urge the president to intervene in the case of Edward Gallagher. From your reporting, what other factors account for the president's special interest in these accused and convicted war criminals? Speaker 2: 04:42 Well, I think Duncan Hunter is, is a major reason a, he's been doing this not just with Edward Gallagher, but with a number of guys accused of war crimes for several years. And it goes back to his experience in Iraq where he was a marine who served there on on a couple of deployments. And I think felt that justice was not always done. So he has been outspoken. He has another ally in a Fox and friends personality named Pete Heg, Seth, also a Iraq war veteran, and a guy who regularly talks to the president now, both hunter and Higgs at the press repeatedly saying, Hey, you've got to do something for these guys. These guys, I think they portray him to the president as guys who have just been punished for doing their job. Speaker 1: 05:26 And we will probably see in the next few days whether or not these pardons actually materialize. Speaker 2: 05:32 Right. Uh, not even people very close to the president are very good at predicting what he's going to do so far, be it from the New York Times to do, to try and do so. But, but he is showing signs that, that this is something, yeah. Speaker 1: 05:44 That, that he's interested in. I've been speaking with New York Times reporter, Dave Phillips. Dave, thank you so much. Thank you. Speaker 3: 05:51 [inaudible].