Episode 7: What happens next

S1: But what we're doing here is advocating for drop out wop. Wop is life without the possibility of parole. California has 5200 people serving life sentences. So what we're doing here today is meeting with legislators to say , we want you to pass Senate Bill 300.

S2: On a hot summer Sacramento day , Jane Doe and her sister Marilyn were enveloped in a massive crowd at the state Capitol. Jane was free from prison and now was rallying for others freedom as well. Then she spent the rest of the afternoon meeting with state legislators , although the bill ended up not passing. True to form , Jane was methodical and highly organized.

S1: We scheduled visits ahead of time. We don't just pop in on them. We schedule the visits ahead of time and let them know what we're coming for and get their permission to do a presentation , basically a 30 minute presentation saying , here's who we are and here's what we think. And now that you know these facts.

S2: She used to visit Jane in prison. Now she's visiting her out of prison rally.

S1: So I'm dragging her around today. Um , you know , she's learned about criminal justice reform through watching me go through this system and is now an advocate.

S2: In a past episode , we talked about how Jane transformed during her time in prison. She used to think the criminal justice system worked just fine , and if people were locked up , they must have deserved it. But pretty quickly , she came to see massive corruption in the system. Now that Jane is out , she's become a prison reform advocate basically full time. It gives her a strong purpose. She's 78 years old now and splits her time flying back and forth between her daughter Claire's home in Florida and an apartment in LA , where she helps house women who've just been released from prison.

S1: I would never turn anybody down , having been through the struggle myself. Um , but yeah , I it's , um , it's a little reminiscent of living within the prison system. And if you have a vacant bunk in your cell , you know that at any time that the door clicks open , it may be someone standing there walking in. Hi. I'm your new roommate , and you don't know them from Adam. And so just just the way life goes.

S2: She's very active with her bicoastal travel and travel to rallies , conferences and meetings for her advocacy work. But there are still so many unanswered questions that Jane has to live with. She'll likely never know who killed her husband , Bob. One of her sons died last year , and she's still not in touch with the other one , and she doesn't know what her life would have been like if her original trial had gone her way. Jane was actually released from prison before she was exonerated. She told our producer , Claire Trager , the story while they were driving out to look at Jane's old house. Jane says she was released early because of Covid. Her lawyer , Paula Mitchell , put in a request.

S1: So on a on a prayer Paula Mitchell put forward release her on her own recognizance.

S2: That basically means releasing her without bail. She's in her. 70s.

S1: 70s. You know , her risk for Covid is high. Everybody , all the attorneys and the analysts have said wallet is not gonna work. I'm not going to release a life without their own record.

S2: This is a political figure. She'd give it a try. This was in March 2020.

S1: But she said , don't get your hopes up. Everyone thinks I'm crazy to even ask if everyone thinks it's not going to happen. So don't get your hopes up. And I knew the , um I knew the hearing was set for 130 , and I knew that Paula would , because of course I was in prison and Paula would use the email system in the prison to contact me directly and let me know how the hearing went. And I told myself , hearing will start at 130. It will take 15 minutes or so to get here about formalities and stuff. And you know , we I probably should have checked the emails because we have a little tablet that would walk up close to the kiosk where it sinks. Kind of like getting in and out of Wi-Fi , I guess. Anyway , that's the way the tablets work. So I told myself I should go check out till 3:00 , but I didn't. I went shortly after 2:00 and checked and there on the email is from Paula. OMG he's ordered your release and I just was pretty to believe it. I mean , I'm in the middle of the day room and I'm screaming and I'm pointing to it in the little tablet and showing my friends , look at this , look at this. I can't believe this is happening.

S2: Then a couple of days later , Jane was released.

S1: It was. It felt unreal to me until I was actually in the car with my sister and I. You know , the sister was so crazy. Uh , you have to pack up all your galore vehicles. Whatever you're taking out of the prison.

UU: You know , if you have anything to talk about.

S1: You have to go through what's called R and R receiving a release , and they've got to make sure that you didn't pick up your neighbor's television , that they take that out at the same time that they check for all of those things. I rolled up to the R&R with things that were important to me , probably two boxes full of fitting materials , kind of communistic , and Some of my belongings and of course my legal work , which was three huge paper boxes for my legal work. I had to go out with me. And I laughed and thought I could have hidden an inmate in there. You know what of this box ? I walked out the gate , rolling my cart full of stuff , and when the gate closed behind and I could help my sister and cook the boxes in the car. But when all that was done and the car started up just like , oh , this is really. It's really happening. And I , you know , honestly , until we drove off the prison grounds , I still was sort of like , someone's going to cry and slam that front gate or front of us and say , oh , wait a minute , I can't. Because so many things had gone wrong.

S2: Of course , she wasn't free. She had to stay in her sister's apartment in Long Beach and wear an ankle bracelet. And there was her hearing still looming in the future , when a judge will review all of Paula mitchell's challenges to the evidence used to convict Jane. They had the new DNA results that showed Bob had someone else's DNA under his fingernails. They had all the findings about the sloppy tactics and San Diego Sheriff crime lab. But still , prosecutors appeared to be pushing ahead , insisting on a new trial.

S1: So they wanted to maintain the right to retry me. And it took them 90 days to decide. And on day 89 , they walked back in and said , yep , we're going to retry her.

S2: So Jane's lawyers were preparing for the next trial. It was the night before and they were getting ready to go to court in the morning. Then everything changed. Here's how Jane remembers it.

S1: The night before the evidentiary hearing , the prosecution walked in and said , we don't have evidence against her. We weren't going to discuss the case. It was amazing to me. I was sitting with my sister in the kitchen and doing the , uh , the hearing via zoom because , again , Covid , the court year , the courtrooms were closed and so forth. So everything was done via zoom.

S2: Jane's lawyer , Paula Mitchell.

S3: They say we concede we we no longer have confidence in her conviction and we believe it should be overturned. So based on the DNA , based on other problems in the crime lab , they said Jane Doe conviction should be overturned.

S2: Jane was finally free. Her team had a press conference right after the decision more than a year later. Jane loves watching the video of her lawyers celebrating.

S4: It's always hard for me to have a client who , in the face of that kind of threat is able to stand up to it and fight it.

S1: I'm sorry this is taking so long.

S5: No , no , I.

S1: Want to get to the impassioned talk that Paula and Mike.

S6: Give you again at the end.

S4: This all seem innocent. Does not stand down. We stand up , we fight back , and we get justice. Please join us in that San Diego. Because in this battle , we will not stop fighting. We will not stop fighting for fairness , equity and justice. And we will always be ready. And for anyone who stands on our way , you better be ready to.

S2: Some people in Jane's position might have left prison and never want to have anything to do with prison or courts , or any of it ever again. Jane could have left and just moved in with her daughter , rode horses , traveled , and lived out her remaining years in peace. But that's not what she's doing , just like she did in her former career of organizing nurses at a health care company , just like she did in prison. Organizing prisoners and lobbying for better treatment , just like she did with her own case , petitioning for appeals , and finally winning her freedom. She's also now not standing down. This is in part because of who she is and what she saw in prison that led her to believe our criminal justice system is so corrupt , and in part because of the uncertainties that will always be there. In her own case , the lab tests that exonerated Jane , that showed someone else's DNA was under her husband's fingertips , used up all the material. So there's nothing left to test. That means she can't use DNA tracking to find out who killed her husband.

S1: I blame the San Diego crime lab because I'm the one that won the right for more DNA testing , and I'm the one that specifically said. And I put it in writing to please only test 50% of the available evidence so that you can save some for future testing. And they didn't do that. They used an awful lot.

S2: Jane has some ideas though. There were reports of other people being harassed while walking or running on the side of the road , in the same area where Bob and Jane lived. In fact , her lawyers were ready to name an alternative suspect if Jane was forced to go to a second trial. Now that the charges have been dismissed , they won't say who that person is.

S1: That property is right straight up there. When you get to the top of this little rise , you'll make a left right past the mailboxes. Right here. Yes.

S2: Yes. This past summer , Jane took a drive with our producer out to her old house. They started at the horse ranch where Jane , Bob and their daughter Claire lived.

S1: There's no mailboxes. There used to be Yeah. See , this is 2602. This is part of the property that we leased. Although it wasn't it wasn't nearly as built up. You can see the house there built up on a barn with a reddish roof and a tan all the way at the top. No , right. Straight beyond these pastures. That's it. Does the house look the same ? Yeah , it's pretty much the same. It looks like they've got some solar stuff on the roof there. I guess that solar stuff. But yeah , that big porch and you can see the brick underneath. There's three little or four little. Those were where the little stalls were for miniature horses , I guess. But. And so it was kind of quaint , you know , you could sit out on that lovely deck and look down at the arena and look across at the horses. You couldn't see the horses up to the barn , but , um , you can see there's a big window on the right corner Um , And they never locked it. And we never we kept our truck to pull the horse trailer. We parked it up at the top barn , and I always left the keys in it so that I wouldn't lose them. And , you know , I just felt like. We knew the neighbors. There wasn't really a problem.

S2: It didn't seem like anyone was home. So Jane and our producer drove down the winding road where Bob used to run.

S1: But , you know , this , in my opinion , is not a good road to go jogging on. No , there's no shoulder. No , it's a big drop off on the other side. And that was , you know , kind of on my mind. And I just had that sinking feeling that kept growing. You know , something is really wrong. And this is just not right that Bob's not back.

S2: They drove past where his jacket was found and stopped at the place where Bob's body was found after 24 years. Jane still remembered every detail perfectly , and she talked about what she thinks happened the day Bob was killed.

S1: You know , I think the best speculation is some kind of altercation happened. And somehow. Something must have started where Bob's jacket was found. And then. They put him in a car and brought him here.

S2: Jane says during her first trial , as people heard about her case on the news , they started coming forward saying they'd seen Bob jogging that day. Some of these stories didn't pan out , but there was one that stuck with Jane.

S1: And she said , oh my God , that's the guy I saw sitting there yesterday in the small black pickup between two other men. They were either Indian or Hispanic. And she said specifically , his eyes were open , but it looked like he couldn't see. And I don't know how she. To me , that's a very funny comment to make. Um , but she had an eerie feeling at the time. Something's very wrong with this scene , this thing that I'm looking at.

S2: Our producer asked Jane what it would be like to keep on living and never know what happened.

S1: You know , it's the same. It feels so heavy and it feels like , why can't we , um. You know , I don't know if it would help to know what really happened , but I think about things like , you know , what must of his last few moments have been like , you know , it must have been really scary for him , you know , because Bob was Bob was very fit and he was wouldn't back down from a challenge. Um , and could be , could be sometimes angry at people , especially because he was jogging and I know Claire had said on more than one occasion when they were jogging together , somebody would be driving too fast and , you know , and would kind of yell , joggers , get off the road or something like that. And , and Bob would be irate about that. But. You know , here he is just out recovering from a marathon and doing a peaceful thing. And and then he's gone.

S2: Right before he died , Bob had run his first marathon with Claire. It had always been a goal of his. And Claire helped him do it.

S1: And at one point toward the end of the marathon , he thought he wasn't going to make it , and she stuck with him and said , come on , and encouraged him. And he did finish.

S2: Now Claire is married to a man who runs ultramarathons 50 or 100 miles instead of 26.2 , and Jane thinks about what it would be like if Bob were still alive. She sees Bob and her son in law Andre.

S1: I think how much Bob and Andre have in common with their love of running. And you know it. What often crosses my mind is what would it be like if Bob were here ? Now ? You know the joy of seeing his daughter married and his son in law , a great marathon runner and , you know , just kind of sharing all that stuff. It seems so , um , unfair that he's not still here with us.

S2: Also , when Bob died , he and Jane had finally reached a good place. They were doing well in a business. They loved training horses. Their marriage was better.

S1: I think about that because , you know , Bob , even though so much was said and made up of , you know , we had a difficult relationship and stuff. We had some strife , but what marriage doesn't. And we had pretty much reconciled and we would we were walking around and driving around looking at property , feeling sort of satisfied with , um , okay , this is going to work. They had reached.

S2: A place in life that many people find peaceful.

S1: And I felt like , you know , our kids are grown , they're all financially independent and well-off. We can do this. We , you know , we have more discretionary income than we've ever had in our lives. And we can do this. Had that all played out , you know , I would have never gone to prison. We probably would have some nice little acreage in this area somewhere around in San Diego because , you know , I always liked San Diego. Um , and it would be and then , you know , here we would be going with Claire and Andre to Greece to run the spa. Kathleen. And how how that would be. So I think of all those things.

S2: And of course , it wasn't just that she lost her husband. Her life was ruined too. She missed so much when she went into prison. George W Bush was president when she came out. Donald Trump , she missed getting cell phones , smartphones , and of course , she missed time with her children , growing her career riding horses.

S1: It still gets to me. Yeah.

UU: Yeah. I mean , of course.

S1: You know , and I know intellectually you have to be able to say , well , sometimes things just happen in life. You're driving along the road and you get hit by a mack truck and it's over. Sometimes things like that happen , but this was injustice on top of injustice.

S2: And Jane went to prison and at age 75 was released. And now she's living her remaining years in a way she never would have imagined. Our producer drove Jane back to a hotel near the San Diego airport. She seemed tired. She'd come from a stretch of lobbying at the state Capitol , and then spent the day revisiting so many painful places and so many painful memories.

S7: And I'm talking $400. Fine. You know , it was also amazing to me in Greece how many people smoke. And some of the marathon runners was really. Thank you. That's crazy.

S1: That's what I said. Well , yeah.

S8: Thank you so much. Take care.

S7: And people are doing this. I really appreciate it. Let me know if you need anything. You know , if anything goes up. That's my voice like that. By.

S2: The next morning , she was off again , flying to Arizona to attend a conference for people who had been wrongly convicted and were now free Jane is hosted by me , Katie Hazen. It's reported and produced by Claire Trager. Sound design by am FM music. Additional producing by Lara McCaffrey. It was edited by David Washburn and Terrence Shepard , web design by Brendan to Trinity , and our news director is Terence Sheppard.