Speaker 1: (00:00)
After receiving the go ahead from the FDA and CDC, Corona virus vaccinations for kids aged five through 11 are starting today. The lower dose vaccine by Pfizer. And Biointech now has emergency use authorization for the younger age group, opening up the vaccine to some 28 million children in the U S yet many parents remain reluctant to have their children vaccinated. A recent Kaiser family foundation poll found that only about 30% of parents with children. Aged five through 11 were eager to have their kids vaccinated. You're to talk more about vaccinating younger children and talking to parents about it is Dr. Bob Gillespie, a physician with sharp healthcare and founding member of the San Diego county COVID-19 equity task force. Dr. Gillespie.
Speaker 2: (00:48)
Welcome. Thank you so much, Jay, for having me, what
Speaker 1: (00:51)
Have medical professionals learned over the course of the pandemic about how best to talk to their patients about the vaccine?
Speaker 2: (00:59)
One of the things that we as scientists have a tendency to do is to rely on data. And when you're speaking to people in the community, their reality is not always found in the data that's been present. Give you an example. One of the concerns that parents have between the age of five and 11 is fertility and their children getting the vaccines at such an early age, the data has not shown any issues concerning fertility and the scientific side. We're more worried about things such as myocarditis though. It's rare and it's something that can occur. So you have to first understand your patient and the people that you're speaking to in the community to understand their concerns. So that's the first step. And the second thing is to be armed with the information that is factual and give both sides of the story.
Speaker 1: (01:49)
Hmm. And do these strategies change when we're talking about younger kids like this new five through 11 age group,
Speaker 2: (01:56)
Without a question, if you look at what we have done in San Diego county and people over the age of 6 65 and older, we vaccinated over 97% of that population, at least one shot 97%. And the reason for that is our argument is that in that age group, the risk of hospitalization and death is quite significant. When you look at kids five to 11, you can not make that same argue quite the opposite. We know the risk of hospitalization and death is almost non-existent. It's very small, not non-existent, but small. So the arguments have to be based on other issues. What are the differences in immunocompromised patients or those with preexisting conditions? Are they more likely to benefit? What about minority patients? Are they more likely the issues related to mental health and socialization that occurs as we distance ourselves with the fear of getting COVID and our learning change is our inability to educate our young children. How does that impact? And lastly, the issue that's a real, really real issue. What about the impact of long COVID and what it might until when, or it might cause issues with our young children? And of course, the issue of how we transmit within our families, if our young children are not vaccinated
Speaker 1: (03:13)
Hmm. And vaccine hesitancy for kids seem to be on the mind of many committee members at yesterday's CDC advisory committee meeting, which voted 14, zero in support of recommending the vaccine to kids age five through 11. Here's what Dr. Helen Talbot had to say in that meeting,
Speaker 3: (03:32)
We have reviewed this data and I have that made in my kids cause I feel like it's safe. Um, and I would not recommend something if I did not feel that way. And so I think it's really important, um, to just reiterate what many of us have said we are parents and we have given this to our children.
Speaker 1: (03:48)
Is this more personal approach effective at connecting with patients in your view?
Speaker 2: (03:54)
The personal approach is effective. As long as you also provide some reasonable reasons for making that decision. In the case of a physician who comes from typically middle-class upper middle-class would be probably a better characterization. The argument would be more along the lines of preventing the social concerns and mental health concerns that are come with not being vaccinated. The issue of seven to 8% of potentially getting long COVID, which is a condition where you have symptoms that last greater than 12 weeks out from an infection with COVID. So these become very important issues, not the issue of death and hospitalization. However, in minority populations, on the other hand, the vast majority of those people who did end up with illnesses, where it was a high percentage in minority boobs. So a different view may be in that population compared to a majority population. So you really have to target your message to an individual group as you consider these variables.
Speaker 1: (05:00)
And what do you think the medical community gets right and wrong when it comes to listening to patient's concerns?
Speaker 2: (05:06)
You know, I was fascinated as I looked at that Kaiser study. And one of the first things, if you look at parents' concerns, as I mentioned earlier, is one of fertility, you know, this is something that we have not even seen a, seen a signal that reduction in fertility occurs with the use of these vaccines. So I think one of the things that we have to focus on what the parents' concerns are. And I think if we do that, we have a better chance of making a difference in getting this scoop patients vaccinated
Speaker 1: (05:37)
In your sharp healthcare biography. You wrote building trust, which does not necessarily take an extended period of time, is the key to helping a patient make the correct informed decision. How do you approach building that trust with patients?
Speaker 2: (05:51)
And that same study you've mentioned. That was one of the concerns that parents have particularly minority. And that was being able to go to a location that they trusted, that they have trust. And that's particularly in the minority population that that becomes an issue, what you do for trust because of historical issues. Often in people of color, it is important to have someone that looks that's providing that message when it comes to anyone in the general population, trust is built in from a caregiver that, that individual trust. So that is, if you go into a doctor's office who you've seen for a number of years, that's certainly going to provide a level of trust that will allow you to discuss the vaccine. I speak with every single one of my patients about getting a vaccine, even though I'm a cardiologist, it's extremely important that we speak with all of our patients because they trust me for other reasons. And with that, many of my unvaccinated patients will go up and get vaccinated of all different racial backgrounds.
Speaker 1: (06:54)
And what would you say to a parent who came to you that expressed concern about the vaccine?
Speaker 2: (06:59)
I would say the following to parents that have children between the age of five and 11, that the clinical trials, though, not as extensive as the main trials, this was a few thousand patients, just under 3000 that we looked at or in this group of five to 11, but it just added 2,500. I should say what we saw in this group was that antibody levels went up quite significantly. There was no increase in side effects beyond what typically occurred in the general population, the fatigue, headache, local irritation, and there was no signal of a bad outcome. The dose is about a third of what was given to adults and all of the information, which suggests that this is very safe, but I would also add that we still need more data, that it will be something we'll continue to monitor. We have a number of ways of monitoring these vaccines and that data, if there's is a signal that shows any concern whatsoever will trigger a stop in using that vaccine immediately. So I would encourage parents that it is very safe, but nonetheless, we will continue to monitor this very closely.
Speaker 1: (08:07)
I've been speaking with Dr. Bob Gillespie, a physician with sharp healthcare and founding member of the San Diego county COVID equity task force. Dr. Gillespie, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: (08:18)
Thanks again, Jane.
